American Politics

[M3J]

There are better solutions than UBI.

The long term solution is for everyone to shift to an off grid lifestyle.

Programs like UBI that increasingly tax work to subsidize non work are never sustainable and represent the definition of diminishing returns.

As shown by recent projections of social security failing in the 2030s.

What's an off grid lifestyle??

UBI would apply to workers as well... and it's sustainable if the gov't closed loopholes and made the wealthy and businesses pay more in taxes instead of letting them slide by. There's no reason why churches shouldn't pay taxes, at least churches with rich pastors like Joel Osteen.

Problem with social security is that life expectancy for old people have gone up, so you had far more boomers than younger generations. This again can be solved by redirecting tax money, we don't need to spend billions and trillions in warfare.

 

[Sanity Check]

They don't change their vote and then cry crocodile tears on the house floor in an attempt to save face with her stupid Twitter stans or whatever the hell that was.

AOC hasn't been in office long.

I think she's finally starting to see some of the dark side of politics.

Crying those dark side political tears.

What's an off grid lifestyle??

UBI would apply to workers as well... and it's sustainable if the gov't closed loopholes and made the wealthy and businesses pay more in taxes instead of letting them slide by. There's no reason why churches shouldn't pay taxes, at least churches with rich pastors like Joel Osteen.

Problem with social security is that life expectancy for old people have gone up, so you had far more boomers than younger generations. This again can be solved by redirecting tax money, we don't need to spend billions and trillions in warfare.

The way things are now, people rely heavily on corporations and the state for survival.

If automation depletes job markets. People will trend towards growing their own food, generating their own power, becoming more self sufficient. Relying less on corporations for jobs, healthcare, money. Relying less on the state for welfare and support.

Some charities and non profit organizations, reportedly donate less than 5% of their collected revenue towards legitimate humanitarian or charitable causes. With more than 95% of the money collected going into their back pockets. I'll give you an example of this.

A model raised $500,000 for Australia wildfire relief by sending nude photos to donors, she says

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/01/06/model-raised-australia-wildfire-relief-by-sending-nude-photos-donors-she-says/

This woman raised money for "australian wildfires". When I first read this news story, I looked at her social media and saw onlyfans models telling her to do a 2nd run through her own charity so she could pocket all of the cash for herself. I think she did try it. But it didn't generate nearly the same amount of $$ as the 1st run and didn't receive much media attention.

So these are the types of people who exploit non profit tax loopholes. Not the ones most would expect or think.

 

[xi0]

If automation depletes job markets. People will trend towards growing their own food, generating their own power, becoming more self sufficient. Relying less on corporations for jobs, healthcare, money. Relying less on the state for welfare and support.

That is a pipedream without it being spurred on by some sort of global catastrophe and economic collapse. The majority of the world's population simply doesn't have the space or resources to do any of that. The percentage of people living in urban areas is 56% and it's projecting to be close to 70% by 2050.

 

[Sanity Check]

That is a pipedream without it being spurred on by some sort of global catastrophe and economic collapse. The majority of the world's population simply doesn't have the space or resources to do any of that. The percentage of people living in urban areas is 56% and it's projecting to be close to 70% by 2050.

Jobs could be the biggest incentive behind the trend of living in densely populated cities.

If job markets decline on automation, people could gravitate towards living in more rural areas with lower rent, reduced cost of living and greater personal space.

The cost of 1 acre of land in some places in the USA is $2,000 while the cost of a 2 bedroom condo in NYC can be priced above $1 million. Without the lure of city jobs people would migrate to rural, less densely populated areas, where they could get bigger and better real estate and more land than they would in an expensive, overpriced, big city.

Sometimes I wonder if academics recruit 12 year olds to do their "projections" . If job markets are threatened by automation, the trend will shift in the opposite direction from what they're predicting. It'll be similar to what would happen if all the high paying jobs in silicon valley were automated away. Rather than incentivizing a move to big cities, drawing a larger segment of the population, it would have the opposite effect.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 24, 2021 ---

Problem with social security is that life expectancy for old people have gone up, so you had far more boomers than younger generations. This again can be solved by redirecting tax money, we don't need to spend billions and trillions in warfare.

Infrastructure in the US is underfunded. Healthcare is underfunded. Education is underfunded. Defense budget is underfunded. War on drugs is underfunded. War on terrorism is underfunded. Literally everything is underfunded.

The only difference between social security and infrastructure. They can tell people SS is underfunded due to people "living longer" and apparently they will believe it.

 

[M3J]

There's literally evidence, especially since SS was introduced under FDR, I believe.

Defense budget is overfunded, waaay overfunded. The $1 billion that was approved could have gone towards infrastructure, social security, welfare, or education, which would have benefited a lot more people.

 

[Sanity Check]

Can our defense budget be overfunded if the taliban defeated us and drove us out of afghanistan? Omg. Even typing that feels wrong on so many levels.

I'll just say that programs like social security and UBI are NASA, with what most want and need trending towards Elon Musk and Space X.

I am apparently typing some dirty comments atm.

 

[xi0]

Can our defense budget be overfunded if the taliban defeated us and drove us out of afghanistan? Omg. Even typing that feels wrong on so many levels.

I don't really think you believe funding is the issue there... or rather, no one could think that.

I'll just say that programs like social security and UBI are NASA, with what most want and need trending towards Elon Musk and Space X.

Those things already exist, they're called insurance companies. I wonder how many people are satisfied with how those businesses are trending?

 

[Sanity Check]

I don't really think you believe funding is the issue there... or rather, no one could think that.

It is the angle the Biden administration and democrats will push in the future.

They have to invent motives to spend more trillions in the middle east.

Those things already exist, they're called insurance companies. I wonder how many people are satisfied with how those businesses are trending?

The profit margins of health insurance (USA) are around 5%. While the profit margins of pharmaceutical drug companies and medical equipment manufacturers can be as high as 20% to 40%.

"Experts" on CNN and fox news look at these basic facts and say: "the health insurance industry with its 5% profit margins are the cause of US healthcare being unaffordable".

It has to be one of the worst real life parodies / tragic comedies of all time.




edit -

Healthcare in the US has been like this for almost 15 years.

News: Martin Shkreli buys up entire stock of pharmaceutical drug to consolidate the market, then raises drug price 10,000%.

People: Those evil health insurance fat cats are doing their part to make healthcare unaffordable again.

...

Real life is content that belongs on comedy central.

 

[xi0]

The profit margins of health insurance (USA) are around 5%. While the profit margins of pharmaceutical drug companies and medical equipment manufacturers can be as high as 20% to 40%.

"Experts" on CNN and fox news look at these basic facts and say: "the health insurance industry with its 5% profit margins are the cause of US healthcare being unaffordable".

I mean, it is though? They're completely interwoven. They don't make those profit margins if insurance companies aren't paying those prices. Do you think those profits would be what they are if every person in the country had to pay out of pocket?

 

[Sanity Check]

I mean, it is though? They're completely interwoven. They don't make those profit margins if insurance companies aren't paying those prices. Do you think those profits would be what they are if every person in the country had to pay out of pocket?

AFAIK it goes like this.

Car insurance: 5% profit margins
Life insurance: 5% profit margins
Health insurance: 5% profit margins

Experts on fox news and CNN viewing these stats: health insurance is obviously completely broke and needs to be replaced.

Meanwhile in the blacked out area where the media never looks.

Pharmaceutical drugs: 40% profit margins
Medical equipment manufacturers: 20% profit margins
Healthcare providers: 20% profit margins

...

I've been saying this since 2008'ish.

Maybe in another 50 to 100 years people might take it seriously.

 

[xi0]

AFAIK it goes like this.

Car insurance: 5% profit margins
Life insurance: 5% profit margins
Health insurance: 5% profit margins

Experts on fox news and CNN viewing these stats: health insurance is obviously completely broke and needs to be replaced.

Meanwhile in the blacked out area where the media never looks.

Pharmaceutical drugs: 40% profit margins
Medical equipment manufacturers: 20% profit margins
Healthcare providers: 20% profit margins

...

I've been saying this since 2008'ish.

Maybe in another 50 to 100 years people might take it seriously.

You just repeated what you already said with more detail but didn't address what I said. The insurance companies are the ones paying the pharmaceutical companies hundreds of dollars for a vial of insulin.

Insurance companies are selling you a policy and betting against it costing them money, of course the margins are tighter than companies who actually sell goods. They hope to sell policies to people while they're younger and for longer so they get their money while they're less likely to have medical emergencies or costly procedures. Add with it the people who can actually afford health insurance aren't in poverty and as a result are healthier on average. So it costs too much and you won't even be covered if you have the wrong pre-existing conditions because they know you'll cost them money. That itself is the issue with how the industry works, not the profit margin.

 

[Sanity Check]

You just repeated what you already said with more detail but didn't address what I said. The insurance companies are the ones paying the pharmaceutical companies hundreds of dollars for a vial of insulin.

Insurance companies are selling you a policy and betting against it costing them money, of course the margins are tighter than companies who actually sell goods. They hope to sell policies to people while they're younger and for longer so they get their money while they're less likely to have medical emergencies or costly procedures. Add with it the people who can actually afford health insurance aren't in poverty and as a result are healthier on average. So it costs too much and you won't even be covered if you have the wrong pre-existing conditions because they know you'll cost them money. That itself is the issue with how the industry works, not the profit margin.

Health insurance takes existing healthcare costs, marks everything up modestly to earn their 5% profit margin, and passes the cost on to consumers. Identical to how car insurance and other insurance sectors function.

Video game developers like square enix and ea sports also have profit margins around 5% if I remember correctly. An industry with 5% profit margins is generally one with moral business practices and relatively fair prices.

While industries with 20% to 40%+ profit margins trend towards being immoral, predatory and abusive towards consumers. Slavery, human trafficking and the international drug trade could have profit margins around that range. Those high profits could be correlated with levels of exploitation that are criminal.

AFAIK lifestyle choices have more to do with the cost of overall health insurance than age. There are elderly who exercise, eat healthy and take care of themselves who need healthcare less and generally reduce the cost of it. And young people who are all about drugs and substance abuse, who have a high risk lifestyle, need constant therapy, medication and healthcare, who increase the overall cost for all.

It makes no difference to health insurance providers. So long as they have a reliable system of projections to set fair costs, to generate their 5% profit margin, they're satisfied.

I think you're thinking of the news story of tobacco companies investing in healthcare to "profit" from the damage they do to human health. But that was targeted at tobacco companies, never health insurance, that I can recall.

Its very hard to say health insurance profits from high healthcare costs when their profit margins are only 5%. How do they profit?

 

[xi0]

Video game developers like square enix and ea sports also have profit margins around 5% if I remember correctly. An industry with 5% profit margins is generally one with moral business practices and relatively fair prices.

I don't understand this comparison when videogame developers employ increasingly predatory business practices and EA especially charges full prices for nothing much more than a roster update every year.

I really don't understand how you can conflate profit margins with morality and pass the blame only to those creating goods in this case. The entire apparatus and employer-based health insurance shouldn't exist in this form and I think acting like they offer relatively fair prices when so many can't afford it is willful ignorance. How an industry such as this profits is something I don't care about, as healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Lifestyle choices shouldn't be a factor. If you don't see it that way then we're just not meeting on the fundamentals of this issue.

 

[Sanity Check]

I don't understand this comparison when videogame developers employ increasingly predatory business practices and EA especially charges full prices for nothing much more than a roster update every year.

I really don't understand how you can conflate profit margins with morality and pass the blame only to those creating goods in this case. The entire apparatus and employer-based health insurance shouldn't exist in this form and I think acting like they offer relatively fair prices when so many can't afford it is willful ignorance. How an industry such as this profits is something I don't care about, as healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Lifestyle choices shouldn't be a factor. If you don't see it that way then we're just not meeting on the fundamentals of this issue.

Exactly.

The video game industry is known for some corrupt practices. Workers doing 18 to 30 hour shifts where they're never paid overtime. Even with the corruption. Loot boxes, weak DLC releases, overestimating productivity while underestimating obstacles as is typical with star citizen and cyberpunk 2077, their profit margins are only 5%.

Think of how much more corrupt the video game industry would need to be for their profit margins to hit 20% to 40% marks. And maybe that gives you an outline for how dysfunctional portions of the healthcare industry are who draw those numbers.

...

If healthcare in the US is expensive the profit margins of health insurance is 5%. If healthcare in the US is cheap and affordable, the profit margins of the health insurance industry are still 5%. Health insurance doesn't benefit from healthcare being expensive.

On the other hand, if healthcare in the US were affordable the profit margins of big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and healthcare providers might only be 5% to 10%. Rather than 20% to 40%.

Health insurance doesn't profit or benefit from healthcare being expensive.

But there are others who do profit from high healthcare costs, who prefer things being that way, as it means more money in their pockets.

 

[xi0]

Health insurance doesn't profit or benefit from healthcare being expensive.

Even if you take that at face value, the fact that it's this way is because the amount of people they refuse to cover.

IDK, I feel like if there was a way to alleviate costs on their end and cover more people as a result in order to have more customers, why were they lobbying against previous attempts at healthcare reform?

It's hard for me to separate these industries out, the only lobby spending more than the insurance industry is the healthcare lobby.

 

[Sanity Check]

Even if you take that at face value, the fact that it's this way is because the amount of people they refuse to cover.

IDK, I feel like if there was a way to alleviate costs on their end and cover more people as a result in order to have more customers, why were they lobbying against previous attempts at healthcare reform?

It's hard for me to separate these industries out, the only lobby spending more than the insurance industry is the healthcare lobby.

So the answer to fixing healthcare. If for health insurance to cover more high risk americans so that their puny 5% profit margins turn into 0% profit margins? To guarantee health insurance files for bankruptcy?



Why don't we reduce costs by having big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and healthcare providers cutting prices to slash their 20% to 40% profits instead?

...

People have no idea how bad healthcare reform is. Even democrats like Pelosi who famously said: "we have to pass the bill (obamacare) to find out what is in the bill", began to oppose policies like universal healthcare, medicare for all, UBI and additional healthcare reform, once they saw the negative implications of obamacare emerge.

 

[xi0]

So the answer to fixing healthcare. If for health insurance to cover more high risk americans so that their puny 5% profit margins turn into 0% profit margins? To guarantee health insurance files for bankruptcy?



Why don't we reduce costs by having big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and healthcare providers cutting prices to slash their 20% to 40% profits instead?

Yeah, their puny margins are why the insurance industry is the second strongest lobby in Washington...

That's fine too, but like I already mentioned before, those margins are allowed because of the current system

 

[Sanity Check]

Yeah, their puny margins are why the insurance industry is the second strongest lobby in Washington...

What would health insurance lobby for in washington?

Nothing about healthcare in 2021 benefits health insurance.

Everything is structured to benefit big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers, healthcare providers and a "woke" political agenda.

 

[xi0]

What would health insurance lobby for in washington?

Nothing about healthcare in 2021 benefits health insurance.

Everything is structured to benefit big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers, healthcare providers and a "woke" political agenda.

Influencing of legislation, just like any other lobby.

Which Industry Spends the Most on Lobbying?

All major companies and industries have lobbyists representing their interests to lawmakers in D.C. Discover the top spenders on lobbying from 1998 to 2025.

www.investopedia.com

They lump all insurance together for obvious reasons, but it's obviously mostly bolstered by health insurance.

If everything was structured to benefit a "woke" political agenda, nothing would be considered "woke" and it wouldn't ruffle any feathers lol... as pathetic as corporate mandated nonsense can be, putting on the same level of something that actually has money behind it is kind of laughable to me. You're just being distracted from more consequential things, and that's by design.

 

[Sanity Check]

Influencing of legislation, just like any other lobby.

Which Industry Spends the Most on Lobbying?

All major companies and industries have lobbyists representing their interests to lawmakers in D.C. Discover the top spenders on lobbying from 1998 to 2025.

www.investopedia.com

They lump all insurance together for obvious reasons, but it's obviously mostly bolstered by health insurance.

If everything was structured to benefit a "woke" political agenda, nothing would be considered "woke" and it wouldn't ruffle any feathers lol... as pathetic as corporate mandated nonsense can be, putting on the same level of something that actually has money behind it is kind of laughable to me. You're just being distracted from more consequential things, and that's by design.

Why is big pharma and healthcare #1.

If everything was structured to benefit a "woke" political agenda, nothing would be considered "woke" and it wouldn't ruffle any feathers lol... as pathetic as corporate mandated nonsense can be, putting on the same level of something that actually has money behind it is kind of laughable to me. You're just being distracted from more consequential things, and that's by design.

You don't have to bother pushing your politics here.

Have you seen those huge Trump boat parades? Those people didn't support Trump because someone made a smart or informative post on the internet. They saw their health insurance double or triple after obamacare was passed. That was one of the main causes.

Nobody cares about politics until COVID lockdowns hit or something happens that personally affects them. And even then they don't really care . They only want a quick fix so their life returns to "normal".

I tried for a long time to try to raise levels of information and awareness. With no success. Like I said: its comedy that you can give people all the answers and they will reject them. On the basis of it not being the trendy explanations they're used to hearing.

The sad truth is, heavy handed state policies like COVID lockdowns have done more to encourage people to be more proactive, informed and aware than I ever could.