American Politics

[xi0]

AFAIK it goes like this.

Car insurance: 5% profit margins
Life insurance: 5% profit margins
Health insurance: 5% profit margins

Experts on fox news and CNN viewing these stats: health insurance is obviously completely broke and needs to be replaced.

Meanwhile in the blacked out area where the media never looks.

Pharmaceutical drugs: 40% profit margins
Medical equipment manufacturers: 20% profit margins
Healthcare providers: 20% profit margins

...

I've been saying this since 2008'ish.

Maybe in another 50 to 100 years people might take it seriously.

You just repeated what you already said with more detail but didn't address what I said. The insurance companies are the ones paying the pharmaceutical companies hundreds of dollars for a vial of insulin.

Insurance companies are selling you a policy and betting against it costing them money, of course the margins are tighter than companies who actually sell goods. They hope to sell policies to people while they're younger and for longer so they get their money while they're less likely to have medical emergencies or costly procedures. Add with it the people who can actually afford health insurance aren't in poverty and as a result are healthier on average. So it costs too much and you won't even be covered if you have the wrong pre-existing conditions because they know you'll cost them money. That itself is the issue with how the industry works, not the profit margin.

 

[Sanity Check]

You just repeated what you already said with more detail but didn't address what I said. The insurance companies are the ones paying the pharmaceutical companies hundreds of dollars for a vial of insulin.

Insurance companies are selling you a policy and betting against it costing them money, of course the margins are tighter than companies who actually sell goods. They hope to sell policies to people while they're younger and for longer so they get their money while they're less likely to have medical emergencies or costly procedures. Add with it the people who can actually afford health insurance aren't in poverty and as a result are healthier on average. So it costs too much and you won't even be covered if you have the wrong pre-existing conditions because they know you'll cost them money. That itself is the issue with how the industry works, not the profit margin.

Health insurance takes existing healthcare costs, marks everything up modestly to earn their 5% profit margin, and passes the cost on to consumers. Identical to how car insurance and other insurance sectors function.

Video game developers like square enix and ea sports also have profit margins around 5% if I remember correctly. An industry with 5% profit margins is generally one with moral business practices and relatively fair prices.

While industries with 20% to 40%+ profit margins trend towards being immoral, predatory and abusive towards consumers. Slavery, human trafficking and the international drug trade could have profit margins around that range. Those high profits could be correlated with levels of exploitation that are criminal.

AFAIK lifestyle choices have more to do with the cost of overall health insurance than age. There are elderly who exercise, eat healthy and take care of themselves who need healthcare less and generally reduce the cost of it. And young people who are all about drugs and substance abuse, who have a high risk lifestyle, need constant therapy, medication and healthcare, who increase the overall cost for all.

It makes no difference to health insurance providers. So long as they have a reliable system of projections to set fair costs, to generate their 5% profit margin, they're satisfied.

I think you're thinking of the news story of tobacco companies investing in healthcare to "profit" from the damage they do to human health. But that was targeted at tobacco companies, never health insurance, that I can recall.

Its very hard to say health insurance profits from high healthcare costs when their profit margins are only 5%. How do they profit?

 

[xi0]

Video game developers like square enix and ea sports also have profit margins around 5% if I remember correctly. An industry with 5% profit margins is generally one with moral business practices and relatively fair prices.

I don't understand this comparison when videogame developers employ increasingly predatory business practices and EA especially charges full prices for nothing much more than a roster update every year.

I really don't understand how you can conflate profit margins with morality and pass the blame only to those creating goods in this case. The entire apparatus and employer-based health insurance shouldn't exist in this form and I think acting like they offer relatively fair prices when so many can't afford it is willful ignorance. How an industry such as this profits is something I don't care about, as healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Lifestyle choices shouldn't be a factor. If you don't see it that way then we're just not meeting on the fundamentals of this issue.

 

[Sanity Check]

I don't understand this comparison when videogame developers employ increasingly predatory business practices and EA especially charges full prices for nothing much more than a roster update every year.

I really don't understand how you can conflate profit margins with morality and pass the blame only to those creating goods in this case. The entire apparatus and employer-based health insurance shouldn't exist in this form and I think acting like they offer relatively fair prices when so many can't afford it is willful ignorance. How an industry such as this profits is something I don't care about, as healthcare should be a right not a privilege. Lifestyle choices shouldn't be a factor. If you don't see it that way then we're just not meeting on the fundamentals of this issue.

Exactly.

The video game industry is known for some corrupt practices. Workers doing 18 to 30 hour shifts where they're never paid overtime. Even with the corruption. Loot boxes, weak DLC releases, overestimating productivity while underestimating obstacles as is typical with star citizen and cyberpunk 2077, their profit margins are only 5%.

Think of how much more corrupt the video game industry would need to be for their profit margins to hit 20% to 40% marks. And maybe that gives you an outline for how dysfunctional portions of the healthcare industry are who draw those numbers.

...

If healthcare in the US is expensive the profit margins of health insurance is 5%. If healthcare in the US is cheap and affordable, the profit margins of the health insurance industry are still 5%. Health insurance doesn't benefit from healthcare being expensive.

On the other hand, if healthcare in the US were affordable the profit margins of big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and healthcare providers might only be 5% to 10%. Rather than 20% to 40%.

Health insurance doesn't profit or benefit from healthcare being expensive.

But there are others who do profit from high healthcare costs, who prefer things being that way, as it means more money in their pockets.

 

[xi0]

Health insurance doesn't profit or benefit from healthcare being expensive.

Even if you take that at face value, the fact that it's this way is because the amount of people they refuse to cover.

IDK, I feel like if there was a way to alleviate costs on their end and cover more people as a result in order to have more customers, why were they lobbying against previous attempts at healthcare reform?

It's hard for me to separate these industries out, the only lobby spending more than the insurance industry is the healthcare lobby.

 

[Sanity Check]

Even if you take that at face value, the fact that it's this way is because the amount of people they refuse to cover.

IDK, I feel like if there was a way to alleviate costs on their end and cover more people as a result in order to have more customers, why were they lobbying against previous attempts at healthcare reform?

It's hard for me to separate these industries out, the only lobby spending more than the insurance industry is the healthcare lobby.

So the answer to fixing healthcare. If for health insurance to cover more high risk americans so that their puny 5% profit margins turn into 0% profit margins? To guarantee health insurance files for bankruptcy?



Why don't we reduce costs by having big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and healthcare providers cutting prices to slash their 20% to 40% profits instead?

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People have no idea how bad healthcare reform is. Even democrats like Pelosi who famously said: "we have to pass the bill (obamacare) to find out what is in the bill", began to oppose policies like universal healthcare, medicare for all, UBI and additional healthcare reform, once they saw the negative implications of obamacare emerge.

 

[xi0]

So the answer to fixing healthcare. If for health insurance to cover more high risk americans so that their puny 5% profit margins turn into 0% profit margins? To guarantee health insurance files for bankruptcy?



Why don't we reduce costs by having big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers and healthcare providers cutting prices to slash their 20% to 40% profits instead?

Yeah, their puny margins are why the insurance industry is the second strongest lobby in Washington...

That's fine too, but like I already mentioned before, those margins are allowed because of the current system

 

[Sanity Check]

Yeah, their puny margins are why the insurance industry is the second strongest lobby in Washington...

What would health insurance lobby for in washington?

Nothing about healthcare in 2021 benefits health insurance.

Everything is structured to benefit big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers, healthcare providers and a "woke" political agenda.

 

[xi0]

What would health insurance lobby for in washington?

Nothing about healthcare in 2021 benefits health insurance.

Everything is structured to benefit big pharma, medical equipment manufacturers, healthcare providers and a "woke" political agenda.

Influencing of legislation, just like any other lobby.

Which Industry Spends the Most on Lobbying?

All major companies have lobbyists gunning for their interests in D.C. Here is a breakdown of the top spenders on lobbying.

www.investopedia.com

They lump all insurance together for obvious reasons, but it's obviously mostly bolstered by health insurance.

If everything was structured to benefit a "woke" political agenda, nothing would be considered "woke" and it wouldn't ruffle any feathers lol... as pathetic as corporate mandated nonsense can be, putting on the same level of something that actually has money behind it is kind of laughable to me. You're just being distracted from more consequential things, and that's by design.

 

[Sanity Check]

Influencing of legislation, just like any other lobby.

Which Industry Spends the Most on Lobbying?

All major companies have lobbyists gunning for their interests in D.C. Here is a breakdown of the top spenders on lobbying.

www.investopedia.com

They lump all insurance together for obvious reasons, but it's obviously mostly bolstered by health insurance.

If everything was structured to benefit a "woke" political agenda, nothing would be considered "woke" and it wouldn't ruffle any feathers lol... as pathetic as corporate mandated nonsense can be, putting on the same level of something that actually has money behind it is kind of laughable to me. You're just being distracted from more consequential things, and that's by design.

Why is big pharma and healthcare #1.

If everything was structured to benefit a "woke" political agenda, nothing would be considered "woke" and it wouldn't ruffle any feathers lol... as pathetic as corporate mandated nonsense can be, putting on the same level of something that actually has money behind it is kind of laughable to me. You're just being distracted from more consequential things, and that's by design.

You don't have to bother pushing your politics here.

Have you seen those huge Trump boat parades? Those people didn't support Trump because someone made a smart or informative post on the internet. They saw their health insurance double or triple after obamacare was passed. That was one of the main causes.

Nobody cares about politics until COVID lockdowns hit or something happens that personally affects them. And even then they don't really care . They only want a quick fix so their life returns to "normal".

I tried for a long time to try to raise levels of information and awareness. With no success. Like I said: its comedy that you can give people all the answers and they will reject them. On the basis of it not being the trendy explanations they're used to hearing.

The sad truth is, heavy handed state policies like COVID lockdowns have done more to encourage people to be more proactive, informed and aware than I ever could.

 

[M3J]

I saw majority of people say they supported Trump because he put America first, mainly being anti-abortion, blaming immigrants for everything, wall, and promoting white supremacy, as well as normalizing racism. They rarely mentioned it was because of the cost of insurance.

Anyway, it's funny to see Trump's demands for recount be the opposite of helpful, as apparently the recounts show that Biden had more votes than originally thought, in many areas.

 

[xi0]

You don't have to bother pushing your politics here.

Have you seen those huge Trump boat parades? Those people didn't support Trump because someone made a smart or informative post on the internet. They saw their health insurance double or triple after obamacare was passed. That was one of the main causes.

Nobody cares about politics until COVID lockdowns hit or something happens that personally affects them. And even then they don't really care . They only want a quick fix so their life returns to "normal".

I tried for a long time to try to raise levels of information and awareness. With no success. Like I said: its comedy that you can give people all the answers and they will reject them. On the basis of it not being the trendy explanations they're used to hearing.

The sad truth is, heavy handed state policies like COVID lockdowns have done more to encourage people to be more proactive, informed and aware than I ever could.

I think chalking up fervent support of Trump to exclusively practical things is naive and far too generous. Especially when it comes to the loud-and-proud variety that have no problem making fools of themselves for the sake of a billionaire that doesn't even know they exist. Don't know what any of this has to do with wokeness though, or how we got to covid lockdowns from it, so you kind of lost me there.

You tried where? On other manga forums? This self-aggrandizement distracts from any points you think you make btw, friendly advice.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2021 ---

Why is big pharma and healthcare #1.

This isn't a counterpoint to what I said, nor have I tried to argue against big pharma making insane profits. The point is this money is being spent for a reason and they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't benefitting them.

 

[Sanity Check]

I saw majority of people say they supported Trump because he put America first, mainly being anti-abortion, blaming immigrants for everything, wall, and promoting white supremacy, as well as normalizing racism. They rarely mentioned it was because of the cost of insurance.

Being exposed to an oppressive environment in england was the catalyst behind the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and all of their ideology.

Being opposed to negative trends of obamacare and believing americans are being oppressed: losing rights and freedom had the same effect on what would become Trump's support base. Which would spawn a 2016 version of the Founding Father's ideology.

If you look at boats in Trump parades, many of them are worth $50,000 to $100,000 or more. The demographic that owns those vessels falls into the income bracket that would be most hardly hit by healthcare reform.

I think chalking up fervent support of Trump to exclusively practical things is naive and far too generous. Especially when it comes to the loud-and-proud variety that have no problem making fools of themselves for the sake of a billionaire that doesn't even know they exist. Don't know what any of this has to do with wokeness though, or how we got to covid lockdowns from it, so you kind of lost me there.

At the start of the 2016 election, I didn't like Trump or Hillary as candidates.

Wasn't a fan of Trump's bad vibe firing people on his reality show. Wasn't a fan of Hillary's career in politics.

What swayed me initially was the practicality of Trump's proposed tax reforms.

I would guess many have similar stories. But who cares what I say. When random strawmans are so much more fun, right.

...

You tried where? On other manga forums? This self-aggrandizement distracts from any points you think you make btw, friendly advice.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2021 ---

I doubt anyone would remember any point I tried to make 2 weeks from now. Makes no difference.

This isn't a counterpoint to what I said, nor have I tried to argue against big pharma making insane profits. The point is this money is being spent for a reason and they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't benefitting them.

It depends on what they're lobbying for or against.

If they're lobbying against plans like medicare for all, which would abolish the privately run health insurance industry. It could be considered self defense.

 

[xi0]

What swayed me initially was the practicality of Trump's proposed tax reforms.

I would guess many have similar stories. But who cares what I say. When random strawmans are so much more fun, right.

Lower taxes is nice, if not shortsighted and apathetic. But I think there's many more reasons why people support Trump specifically.

I wasn't necessarily talking about you, as unlike many reactionaries you have more than two brain cells to rub together.

Still don't see any further explanation of the grave issue of woke politics and how it compares to a government run by corporate interests though...

I doubt anyone would remember any point I tried to make 2 weeks from now. Makes no difference.

So then why agonize about people not listening to you when they don't agree with what you say? Why even pretend to have the burden of infinite knowledge?

It depends on what they're lobbying for or against.

If they're lobbying against plans like medicare for all, which would abolish the privately run health insurance industry. It could be considered self defense.

Well yeah, so then you see why they spend so much money to influence legislation then? Regardless of whatever margins they may have. No lobby is doing what they do to waste rich people's money, they're doing it to benefit their industry.

It's understandable given it's legal to do so, but that's also a fatal flaw of our democracy. The ability of gigantic private health insurance conglomerates to continue to operate the way they do is the major obstacle in healthcare reform that covers every American.

"The CEOs of the six health insurance conglomerates (Anthem, Centene, Cigna, CVS Health, Humana and UnitedHealth Group) made a combined $236 million in 2020, 45% more than in 2019."

I'm struggling to sympathize here, sorry

 

[M3J]

Being exposed to an oppressive environment in england was the catalyst behind the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and all of their ideology.

Being opposed to negative trends of obamacare and believing americans are being oppressed: losing rights and freedom had the same effect on what would become Trump's support base. Which would spawn a 2016 version of the Founding Father's ideology.

If you look at boats in Trump parades, many of them are worth $50,000 to $100,000 or more. The demographic that owns those vessels falls into the income bracket that would be most hardly hit by healthcare reform.

if it was just those demographics, then Trump would never have won the electoral votes. He appealed to racists and white supremacists way more, and that's a fact.

 

[Sanity Check]

if it was just those demographics, then Trump would never have won the electoral votes. He appealed to racists and white supremacists way more, and that's a fact.

Why would Trump appeal to racists?

Still don't see any further explanation of the grave issue of woke politics and how it compares to a government run by corporate interests though...

Nvm. I don't feel like typing the posts it'll take to prove my points there.

So then why agonize about people not listening to you when they don't agree with what you say? Why even pretend to have the burden of infinite knowledge?

If you had infinite knowledge. Would it be a burden? The whole point of things like science is to gain knowledge. Would it be funny if scientists devoted countless hours to increasing knowledge only to further burden themselves?

Well yeah, so then you see why they spend so much money to influence legislation then? Regardless of whatever margins they may have. No lobby is doing what they do to waste rich people's money, they're doing it to benefit their industry.

It's understandable given it's legal to do so, but that's also a fatal flaw of our democracy. The ability of gigantic private health insurance conglomerates to continue to operate the way they do is the major obstacle in healthcare reform that covers every American.

"The CEOs of the six health insurance conglomerates (Anthem, Centene, Cigna, CVS Health, Humana and UnitedHealth Group) made a combined $236 million in 2020, 45% more than in 2019."

I'm struggling to sympathize here, sorry

All I'm going to say is. I hope every single person that hates on capitalism and promotes socialism. Has a guarantee that their life and their families lives will improve as a result.

 

[M3J]

Why would Trump appeal to racists?

Have you read anything he's typed/written? Heard anything he's said? Listened to his supporters? Or are you just trolling?

 

[Sanity Check]

Have you read anything he's typed/written? Heard anything he's said? Listened to his supporters? Or are you just trolling?

I remember some calling Trump a racist.

For wanting to close the US border to make it harder for COVID-19 to enter the country.

...

 

[M3J]

Why is Twitter full of people angry at Henry Ford for announcing an 8-hour, 5-day workweek? I mean, he's a piece of shit, but this is one thing he did good.

 

[xi0]

Nvm. I don't feel like typing the posts it'll take to prove my points there.

This is just a cop-out then. You're either flippant about it or don't have much conviction over it, but act like you do. So you're either Abe Simpson yelling at clouds here or you don't have what it takes to "prove" anything in the first place.

If you had infinite knowledge. Would it be a burden? The whole point of things like science is to gain knowledge. Would it be funny if scientists devoted countless hours to increasing knowledge only to further burden themselves?

I don't think much of what any of us are doing here is scientific

And yes, it would definitely be a burden. If there was zero ability to increase knowledge as everything was knowne, then the only pursuit would be applying it, and that is a different animal altogether.

All I'm going to say is. I hope every single person that hates on capitalism and promotes socialism. Has a guarantee that their life and their families lives will improve as a result.

I don't think economic systems are a binary, and my critique of our current system is an endorsement of socialism either necessarily.