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kkck

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If I remember correctly, only kkck has defended Biden somewhat. I only voted for Biden because I thought he'd do a much better job, and because of Trump's bigotry and lies, as well as incompetence with handling covid. I'd still rather have a Dem in power and with majority over a Rep, but Biden's making that preference hard.
IIRC the only positive things I've ever said about biden basically amount to:

1.- He isn't trump (trump's policies are awful)
2.- Biden doesn't deserve all the shit he got from how afganistan since that's a shitshow that has been festering for 20 years. Biden was just the asshole unlucky enough to be president when it exploded.

Other than that I've usually made the point that biden is pretty much a corporate hack who doesn't fight for the policy he pretends to care for. Me loathing the inane things trump and the republican party stands for (intentional and overt cruelty towards illegal immigrants -though I support deporting however many millions of them make it to the US, ad infinitum tax cuts without regard for the health of public goods and services, climate change science denial, stupid conspiracy theories, anti democratic nonsense, fetishization of violence) shouldn't be confused with me being specially fond of whichever unprincipled corporate hack democrats elect who is still technically better than your average republican. I'm not even a left winger... The US is nuts.
 

Jubei_Kibagami

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Imagine bitching about the non-event January 6th (OMG, I scared myself just typing it! soooo scary!) a year later, let alone at all. It was Almaty-level event!

Imagine virtue-signalling about your vaxx status.




You might not be the cookie-cutter Dem you claim not to be, but you parrot every single line and party talking point like a good little German. Every big-government, CIA, corporatist talking point. There doesn't seem to be a single thing you actually diverge from the Donkey-party from. @ Ninja (and I have no doubt you hate-read my comments as much as you made a big spectacle of 'blocking me').
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Who said covid vaccines are 100% safe?
Actually, your pundits made this claim for months. Maybe they wouldn't say "100%" but side effects were never discussed, nor adverse reactions, and it was repeated how safe and effective (lol) they were ad infinitum without any nod to the contrary.

But, what is your point?
 

kkck

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Actually, your pundits made this claim for months. Maybe they wouldn't say "100%" but side effects were never discussed, nor adverse reactions, and it was repeated how safe and effective (lol) they were ad infinitum without any nod to the contrary.

But, what is your point?
Dammit @M3J . It's about time you learn to keep your pundits in check. Put a leash on them, otherwise they run away and make inane claims at the first camera they run into.
 

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Dammit @M3J . It's about time you learn to keep your pundits in check. Put a leash on them, otherwise they run away and make inane claims at the first camera they run into.
He asked who. The fact that's been the MSM message to all Americans (and beyond) isn't irrelevant.

I imagine I could dive deep into posts past and find one or more of you guys parroting the same thing though.
 

kkck

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He asked who. The fact that's been the MSM message to all Americans (and beyond) isn't irrelevant.

I imagine I could dive deep into posts past and find one or more of you guys parroting the same thing though.
The reporting I have read about the various vaccines has generally been that the vaccine is safe and effective. Which I would argue remains accurate reporting to this day. And there's a pretty big jump between "safe and effective" and "100%" whatever. Milly should be more responsible with his pundits but even if some rando made a claim as inane as that it's still pretty far into the fringes and basically misunderstands how this all works... Add to that, side effects have been widely reported... Overall there is no indication yet that transparency has been lacking with the various vaccines (except perhaps by default the russian and chinese ones).
 

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The reporting I have read about the various vaccines has generally been that the vaccine is safe and effective. Which I would argue remains accurate reporting to this day. And there's a pretty big jump between "safe and effective" and "100%" whatever. Milly should be more responsible with his pundits but even if some rando made a claim as inane as that it's still pretty far into the fringes and basically misunderstands how this all works... Add to that, side effects have been widely reported... Overall there is no indication yet that transparency has been lacking with the various vaccines (except perhaps by default the russian and chinese ones).
Except that's not the case at all.

Almost all allusions to vaccines (of which has been a daily campaign) have exclusively talked about how the vaccines are, and I quote "safe and effective" - never is there a discussion of possible adverse reactions in 99% of the reporting. Possibly higher as the amount of 'get your vaccines.... they're safe and effective!' is so voluminous it's impossible to actually quantify.

The implication being left out to the salt of the earth is that they are absolutely safe and absolutely effective - i.e., 100%. Why would anyone think otherwise when anything but total safety and efficacy is all the discussion revolves around?



Please give me a couple of examples of MSM doing a deep-dive into adverse reactions.
 

M3J

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Actually, your pundits made this claim for months. Maybe they wouldn't say "100%" but side effects were never discussed, nor adverse reactions, and it was repeated how safe and effective (lol) they were ad infinitum without any nod to the contrary.

But, what is your point?
So basically, none of them said they were 100% safe like Sanity Check claimed, and I figured. Good to know.

I don't know if I do have pundits, but a lot of people who are citizens and not "pundits" have been angry about how side effects, especially for women, weren't discussed. Women mostly led this discussion, while still being pro-vaccine, as it affected their periods/menstruation cycle. I'm not sure if "my pundits" discussed side effects, but I know "my people" did, and they all concluded that the side effects were worth the lower risk and less damage if they were to get covid after the vaccination. Even many republicans agreed, and YOUR pundits have likely gotten vaccines as well while spouting anti-vax bullshit.

Also, I see no reason why I should doubt people who themselves say the vaccinations work, over your pundits who love to lie and talk any kind of bullshit for attention.

Why are you asking about my point?

Dammit @M3J . It's about time you learn to keep your pundits in check. Put a leash on them, otherwise they run away and make inane claims at the first camera they run into.
I didn't even know we had pundits. :(

I still trust our so-called pundits over the right wing pundits like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson though, even if ours are imaginary.
 

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So basically, none of them said they were 100% safe like Sanity Check claimed, and I figured. Good to know.
So you deny the VAST bulk of reporting on the matter starts and ends with "vaccines are safe and effective"? You don't have to say something to lead someone to believe the implication.

I don't know if I do have pundits, but a lot of people who are citizens and not "pundits" have been angry about how side effects, especially for women, weren't discussed.
Do you think women are solely reactive or uniquely likely to have adverse reactions over men? I'm not sure why the genderfication of the discussion is necessary, but I suppose you are alluding to reproductive systems' harm. And, yes, that's a *part* of the greater discussion, but it doesn't start or stop there, does it? In fact, men seem to be more likely to have adverse reactions, particularly young men.

Women mostly led this discussion, while still being pro-vaccine, as it affected their periods/menstruation cycle.
A peek into the mind of the cognitive dissonance of the left, while being generously laid at the feat of the fairer of the species by the women-loving (?), but generally cowardly left? Interesting flex.

I'm not sure if "my pundits" discussed side effects, but I know "my people" did, and they all concluded that the side effects were worth the lower risk and less damage if they were to get covid after the vaccination.
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for that great scientific debate.

Even many republicans agreed, and YOUR pundits have likely gotten vaccines as well while spouting anti-vax bullshit.
Republicans are... not my people. News flash: most R's are likely as D's to be raging hypocrites, rife with conflicts of interest.

Weren't you just waxing on about the uniparty anyways?

Also, I see no reason why I should doubt people who themselves say the vaccinations work, over your pundits who love to lie and talk any kind of bullshit for attention.
Example of bullshit? I'll play, even though I could really care less what the narrative du jour is for any given R. I know what *I* think, I don't see a need to defend a talking point that I didn't form.

At least I don't wake up and get my daily talking points from leftist outlets on what to be outraged about any given day. I haven't seen a single deviation from the narrative going back pages upon pages...

Why are you asking about my point?
Because you don't really have one. Talking about vaccines but FORCING the conversation to revolved only around "100% safety" is a straw man argument designed to discredit any discussion that's critical of vaccines without addressing actual figures. It's either 100% safe, or it's not the the argument goes. If we didn't explicitly say 100%, then we've been ahead of the curve the whole time. Only the left indeed has not been ahead of any curve. I only have to go back a few pages to see your love for masks for instance. Only now even, ahem, *your pundits* are coming out and admitting that commonly-worn masks aren't effective at all.

But, I'm sure you've been wearing an N95 or a moonsuit all this time, no?

Tell me, do masks make a big difference or not?

I didn't even know we had pundits. :(

I still trust our so-called pundits over the right wing pundits like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson though, even if ours are imaginary.
Did you just learn the term 'pundit'? You've repeated their every talking point (down to silly misinformation like Kyle R taking a gun across state lines)... so you might not get your talking points directly from the source, but you get them from those that do. Indirectly or directly, the left most certainly has pundits, and I could turn on CNN/MSNBC *right now* and find every complaint lodged by you and ninja (primarily) at any given time.

I see you've evoked some of the bigger names in boogeymen though. I guess you have your reasons? I don't recall citing them...
 

kkck

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Except that's not the case at all.

Almost all allusions to vaccines (of which has been a daily campaign) have exclusively talked about how the vaccines are, and I quote "safe and effective" - never is there a discussion of possible adverse reactions in 99% of the reporting. Possibly higher as the amount of 'get your vaccines.... they're safe and effective!' is so voluminous it's impossible to actually quantify.

The implication being left out to the salt of the earth is that they are absolutely safe and absolutely effective - i.e., 100%. Why would anyone think otherwise when anything but total safety and efficacy is all the discussion revolves around?

Please give me a couple of examples of MSM doing a deep-dive into adverse reactions.
but like, why? Why the covid vaccine? Why not any other vaccine? Or any other medicine? Would it make a difference if I were to google and find any article by any news media about the side effects of the vaccine for the purposes of your post? Let alone that vaccine side effect information has been pretty much reported in real time. Granted the vaccine is absurdly topical but who would be helped by a reporter, presumably on live tv for purposes of this post, listing any medicine's side effects?
 

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but like, why? Why the covid vaccine? Why not any other vaccine? Or any other medicine? Would it make a difference if I were to google and find any article by any news media about the side effects of the vaccine for the purposes of your post? Let alone that vaccine side effect information has been pretty much reported in real time. Granted the vaccine is absurdly topical but who would be helped by a reporter, presumably on live tv for purposes of this post, listing any medicine's side effects?
I'm not sure how you don't see you answered your own question as to 'Why?'

There's no concerted effort to get me to take dick pills to, say, enter a building.

The media is fast and loose with health in this singular instance. Because unprecedented.
 

M3J

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Because you don't really have one. Talking about vaccines but FORCING the conversation to revolved only around "100% safety" is a straw man argument designed to discredit any discussion that's critical of vaccines without addressing actual figures. It's either 100% safe, or it's not the the argument goes. If we didn't explicitly say 100%, then we've been ahead of the curve the whole time. Only the left indeed has not been ahead of any curve. I only have to go back a few pages to see your love for masks for instance. Only now even, ahem, *your pundits* are coming out and admitting that commonly-worn masks aren't effective at all.

But, I'm sure you've been wearing an N95 or a moonsuit all this time, no?

Tell me, do masks make a big difference or not?
Because I'm not the one who mentioned that. If you did read the posts, then you'd see that I was replying to his claim that people said that. I still haven't seen either of you prove that people kept saying it was 100% safe. Interestingly, despite you saying "the left have not been ahead of any curve," it's your pundits and politicians whining about how republicans keep getting sick while democrats barely are. I've also linked to articles that show more people from red/Trump areas have gotten covid as opposed to people from blue areas.

Are they? Because I see people talking about cloth masks, which they've been saying for months, and that N95 masks were safer, which they've also been saying for months.

I don't know why you asked me this again, knowing my answer will remain the same, but masks do make a huge difference.
 

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Because I'm not the one who mentioned that. If you did read the posts, then you'd see that I was replying to his claim that people said that. I still haven't seen either of you prove that people kept saying it was 100% safe.
100% safety is not my argument (and further insistence on discussion of 100% safety is further reliance on the need to straw man this discussion further). I can't speak for Sanity, but I'm not certain he thinks that's been the message either. Maybe he does. One wouldn't be guilty for believing that's generally the TONE of the MSM in regards to vaccines, whether they are explicitly making that claim or not. Just as important is what is NOT being said.

Still, you didn't answer the question. Has the vast majority of the coverage on vaccines been ONLY that vaccines are "safe and effective" (and nothing more) or not?

Because if safety is hammered on and on in a vacuum (in the deafening silence of any possibility otherwise), the reader/listener/viewer wouldn't be blamed for (incorrectly) assuming the vaccines are, you know, safe - the operative word used over and over in repetition. "Safe" is a relative term, but if the nuance of how safe is often never even addressed then what exactly is being said?

Most discussions of vaccines do not in fact involve discussions of potential side-effects. That's simply the truth of the matter.

And if adverse reactions are not a part of the discussions in the vast majority of references to getting a vaccine, then it is implied that their safety is such that you don't need to be concerned, whether that is a 100% safety rating or not is immaterial. What is the implication? Are the talking heads generally alerting to the potential downsides? (no).

When Sanjay Gupta, MD goes on a children's show and talks about getting vaccines to the Sesame Street aged-children, does he include the caveat that there are known (and possibly under-reported) adverse reactions? Hell no. And it's no different on the other end of the spectrum when the Potato POTUS reads from his prepared script to say everyone should get vaccines, to everything in between in the mass narrative of reporting.

You'd be hard pressed for even a casual reference to adverse reactions, much less a deep-dive. IF you'd even hear about it, it would be in the context of glossing over or downplaying them...

Interestingly, despite you saying "the left have not been ahead of any curve," it's your pundits and politicians whining about how republicans keep getting sick while democrats barely are.
lol @ "barely" (you wish). If democrats/leftists/whathaveyou are magically unaffected by covid ("barely"), what exactly is the problem?

I've also linked to articles that show more people from red/Trump areas have gotten covid as opposed to people from blue areas.
Yes, I've addressed that narrative. You haven't responded.

Are they? Because I see people talking about cloth masks, which they've been saying for months,
The MSM has in fact not been talking about the absolute failure of the use of masks (I have OTOH) worn by 99.99% of the population (from gators to cloth masks to even include single-use spittle surgical masks). That is a relatively recent pivot.

and that N95 masks were safer, which they've also been saying for months.
There is "safer" and then there is "actually useful at all." You're conflating two very different arguments. The masses were lead to believe, yourself included, that the masks they've been wearing for the better part of 2 years has been useful at any level, when in fact it's done nothing at all.

I don't know why you asked me this again, knowing my answer will remain the same, but masks do make a huge difference.
Because since we last had the mask discussion, merely a few weeks ago, the MSM has started to pivot to saying that widely-used masks are in fact useless (what I was saying) and that you need to upgrade your mask to have any impact at all.
 
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kkck

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I'm not sure how you don't see you answered your own question as to 'Why?'

There's no concerted effort to get me to take dick pills to, say, enter a building.

The media is fast and loose with health in this singular instance. Because unprecedented.
The point of my post is that even in spite of that there is no rational reason for "media" to simply start listing medicine side effects on tv. it'd be grossly irresponsible. And the information is already available and people can just consult their doctors. I mean, look how often the media bungles reporting on any advancement on cancer treatment. Literally every time.... The media reporting on the current consensus regarding the vaccine's safety and efficacy is the correct thing to do. Heck, it's where their qualifications end in this regard. Which is different of course from media doing it's job and looking for foul play in the studies and approval processes for the vaccine.
 

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Sleepy Joe coming with the facts

 

M3J

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What's amusing is that if Clinton supporters or the left did the same thing Trump supporters did, then these same Trump supporters and republicans would be doing their best to get these people punished, and the majority would actually get punished. But since it's Trump's supporters, republicans are defending them and the politicians are lying and saying nothing happened, while the republican politicians that were helping these treasonous fucks aren't punished.


Also, about time Twitter also banned Majorie Taylor-Green for constantly lying and presenting misinformation. I love how "centrists" and the right keep whining about freedom of speech and whatnot, even though Twitter is not government owned, AND it kept warning idiots like MTG and Trump that they were breaking rules, but they kept doing it anyway. In fact, these politicians got more chances than most other people would, and they still kept ignoring the warnings.

Love how as long as you're on the right, you will not be held accountable for anything other than having anything liberal or left-wing opinion. At least Democrats are holding their own accountable even if it's not for genuine reasons.
 

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M3J said:
Also, about time Twitter also banned Majorie Taylor-Green for constantly lying and presenting misinformation. I love how "centrists" and the right keep whining about freedom of speech and whatnot, even though Twitter is not government owned, AND it kept warning idiots like MTG and Trump that they were breaking rules, but they kept doing it anyway. In fact, these politicians got more chances than most other people would, and they still kept ignoring the warnings.

I'm glad she was banned, but I fear it just makes her a martyr. They love pushing the narrative that we hate free speech, and are still convinced that de-platforming is anti free speech.

By they I mean the alt right/deplorables. Not all Republicans are dishonest pieces of shit lol.
 
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kkck

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I see that more as more of a failure of education issue. Way too many people in the US are under the unhinged delusion that the first amendment applies to private businesses and individuals... Heck, for the most part private individuals can't even file suits alleging constitutional violations against private citizens or entities.
 

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I'm glad she was banned, but I fear it just makes her a martyr. They love pushing the narrative that we hate free speech, and are still convinced that de-platforming is anti free speech.

By they I mean the alt right/deplorables. Not all Republicans are dishonest pieces of shit lol.
It does, and it's beyond annoying to see centrists/moderates come to her defense despite the fact that Twitter is a private business with a set of rules that she kept breaking over and over.

Imagine if they had this energy for Kaepernick, who didn't do anything wrong.

I see that more as more of a failure of education issue. Way too many people in the US are under the unhinged delusion that the first amendment applies to private businesses and individuals... Heck, for the most part private individuals can't even file suits alleging constitutional violations against private citizens or entities.
I feel it's more of a bias thing, rather than education. How many republicans have implied that the First Amendment applied to private businesses and whatnot when THEIR people were being held accountable for their bullshit, and how many have said the FIrst Amendment did not apply to private businesses and whatnot when people they hated were being held accountable or unfairly punished? I mean, people whined about Gina's right to freedom of speech despite Disney warning her not to break their rules, but no one stood up for Tomi when she got fired for being pro-choice.
 

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I feel it's more of a bias thing, rather than education. How many republicans have implied that the First Amendment applied to private businesses and whatnot when THEIR people were being held accountable for their bullshit, and how many have said the FIrst Amendment did not apply to private businesses and whatnot when people they hated were being held accountable or unfairly punished? I mean, people whined about Gina's right to freedom of speech despite Disney warning her not to break their rules, but no one stood up for Tomi when she got fired for being pro-choice.
Who is tomi?

To me the issue is that a discussion about the first amendment and it applying to private entities is extremely stupid. It's nonsense. How it goes nowadays is pretty much this:

Some asshole: TwItTeR iS vIoLaTiNg ThE fIrSt AmEnDmEnT!
Some other asshole: That's not how that works.
Some asshole: CoMMuNiSt!

It'd be different if the discussion was something like "Wait, should it be legal for privately owned businesses to ban people from using their products" or some variation of that but at the level the people railing against social media companies argue this it's impossible to have anything even resembling a coherent conversation. Because to even get to a coherent conversation about this you have to first get them to understand the sheer nonsense they are coming from.
 

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Who is tomi?

To me the issue is that a discussion about the first amendment and it applying to private entities is extremely stupid. It's nonsense. How it goes nowadays is pretty much this:

Some asshole: TwItTeR iS vIoLaTiNg ThE fIrSt AmEnDmEnT!
Some other asshole: That's not how that works.
Some asshole: CoMMuNiSt!

It'd be different if the discussion was something like "Wait, should it be legal for privately owned businesses to ban people from using their products" or some variation of that but at the level the people railing against social media companies argue this it's impossible to have anything even resembling a coherent conversation. Because to even get to a coherent conversation about this you have to first get them to understand the sheer nonsense they are coming from.
Tomi Lahren. Conservative pundit who consistently has wrong opinions that are horribly bigoted.

It is, but I think it's more because of bias. Because one side agrees with the person who got banned, they say it's a violation of First Amendment, but they won't say that if they disagree with or dislike the person who got banned. But then again, I guess they'd know not to use First Amendment if they actually knew how it applies.


Why wouldn't it be legal for social media platforms to ban people for breaking the rules over and over again. despite multiple warnings? Warnings that even kids can understand and abide by?
 
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