American Politics

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Right on time, as if to prove my point for me, another anti-conservative article.

Memes.

 

[xi0]

Those with left-leaning ideologies never do anything bad? Tell me, in the grand scheme what is the death toll compared to deaths on the left? Say, Biden voters. Or BLM 'protesters'. Or antifa clowns? Or or or...

This just in - idiots are idiots no matter their political affiliation!

Welcome to living in a rather large world.

This just reads like trite whattaboutism to me, sorry. I don't really understand this being your reaction to me jokingly pointing out how there are indeed those that act like any example of white supremacy/nationalism is a false flag, fake news, or needs to be minimized for some reason. That's something that undeniably happens. It's happened in this very thread.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

This just reads like trite whattaboutism to me, sorry. I don't really understand this being your reaction to me jokingly pointing out how there are indeed those that act like any example of white supremacy/nationalism is a false flag, fake news, or needs to be minimized for some reason. That's something that undeniably happens. It's happened in this very thread.

Agreed, I could see that, and it WOULD be whataboutism... IF I were somehow using the prompt to deflect from what whiteys are doing in an incredible small and unwelcomed minority, attempt to apply some sort of 'two wrongs make a right' logic, or believe their actions are somehow otherwise justified.

I don't, and I have zero issues in calling a spade a spade.

But, remember, the context was I was making fun of the thought that some right-wing lunatic followed an Indian all day or something. Talk about a productive life.

 

[Sanity Check]

He Spent 25 Years Infiltrating Nazis, the Klan, and Biker Gangs

Scott was a top undercover agent for the FBI. Now, he’s telling his story to sound the alarm about the threat of far-right extremists

www.rollingstone.com

Reality or FBI plot to further "divide" us? You decide!

I have read thousands of pieces published on the internet of similar length.

That one stands out for many reasons.

None of them are good.

 

[ninjabot]

 

[xi0]

Agreed, I could see that, and it WOULD be whataboutism... IF I were somehow using the prompt to deflect from what whiteys are doing in an incredible small and unwelcomed minority, attempt to apply some sort of 'two wrongs make a right' logic, or believe their actions are somehow otherwise justified.

None of that is required really for it to be whattaboutism. I'm at a loss as to why you find it important to specify it being an "incredibly small and unwelcomed minority" when I haven't intimated anything to the contrary. Just pointing out that it is seemingly very important to some people for some reason to minimize or change the subject when it comes to the topic of white supremacy/nationalism. And yeah, inconveniently those "some people" are almost always politically conservative. It doesn't seem like you're saying that's a point of contention, so you attempting to bring up the left side of the scoreboard is you doing what exactly?

I have read thousands of pieces published on the internet of similar length.

That one stands out for many reasons.

None of them are good.

Care to elaborate on why? Or is vaguely dismissive on the menu again today?

 

[Sanity Check]

Care to elaborate on why? Or is vaguely dismissive on the menu again today?

There's no need to elaborate.

Expect rolling stone ratings and viewership to plummet through the floor the way CNN's have.

It has already happened with CNN and so there is no reason to reinvent the wheel explaining yesterdays news.

 

[xi0]

Graham being refreshingly sane there.... absolutely sickening

Ted Cruz bringing up percentage points when something like more than 90% of Justices have been white men despite them only being 30% of the population. The guy just continues with the self-owns. Love him.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2022 ---

There's no need to elaborate.

Expect rolling stone ratings and viewership to plummet through the floor the way CNN's have.

It has already happened with CNN and so there is no reason to reinvent the wheel explaining yesterdays news.

So then it's still all bogeymen and fake news to you. Disappointed but not surprised, I guess.

 

[Sanity Check]

So then it's still all bogeymen and fake news to you. Disappointed but not surprised, I guess.

Imagine reading thousands of news stories and articles over a 20 year period.

Everything you read says: water is wet. Everything has a coherent, orderly and consistent structure to it.

Then one day, you pick up the rolling stone and its headline says: new discovery: water is not in fact, wet.

...

What would you think?

What is there to be disappointed or surprised about?

Should the result not be 100% expected and predictable?

 

[M3J]

Matt Gaetz case intensifies as Florida radio host agrees to cooperate with investigators

The number of witnesses aiding the federal sex trafficking probe into the Republican congressman is growing, and it seems all of them could offer info that takes him down.

www.msnbc.com

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Conservatives are really living people's dreams - they can be accused of sex trafficking and still be free, while whining about cancel culture and freedom being infringed upon.

Right on time, as if to prove my point for me, another anti-conservative article.

Memes.

What you're actually saying, "waah I don't like that this doesn't agree with me so I"m gonna call it anti-conservative! WAAAAH!"

Because proof and facts don't matter when it comes to the right's feelings.

Love how the ignorant and white supremacists out themselves when they complain about diversity hiring. Like, the whole point of that is because Black people have never gotten equal consideration or treatment when it came to hiring, promotion, or anything in the job field, and as flaws as diversity hiring is, it actually tries to even that a bit.

Wish they actually did more to help the people who aren't white, male, or straight though, rather than pretend to.

 

[ninjabot]

Graham being refreshingly sane there.... absolutely sickening

I thought that too, and felt bad that I couldn't just accept it as him saying something right and move on. I was waiting for the catch. Believe it or not, I don't like the seething hatred I feel for the Republican party. It's not even like I have these feelings for the Republicans I know irl. I live in NC. All the white people here are Republican, pretty much. But they're not super aggressive about it, and the one MAGA hat wearing co worker I had was a legitimately awesome guy (sans political affiliation).

 

[M3J]

I thought that too, and felt bad that I couldn't just accept it as him saying something right and move on. I was waiting for the catch. Believe it or not, I don't like the seething hatred I feel for the Republican party. It's not even like I have these feelings for the Republicans I know irl. I live in NC. All the white people here are Republican, pretty much. But they're not super aggressive about it, and the one MAGA hat wearing co worker I had was a legitimately awesome guy (sans political affiliation).

We're in the same boat regarding republican voters. Most I know either aren't racist or don't come across as racist, but there's also that fear that they might be hiding it because it isn't acceptable for now. Not to mention, even though I'm cishet, it's hard to come to terms with any anti-LGBT+ people

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

None of that is required really for it to be whattaboutism.

Wrong. I'm not attempting to discredit your claim, nor justify the subject of it - so I'm not attempting to turn the tables to pretend side X isn't responsible or downplay a thing. I have no issues with your claim as happening at some level (nor would I ever wish to be an apologist for the actions), but I merely put it in perspective as your 'joke' (always the funny guys) implied that was a common occurrence, even for the fringe lunatics when it is indeed not. They aren't commonly wasting their time blowing shit up (omg, defending white nationalists! NO - defending facts), though they do waste it in other super-unproductive ways (again, I was responding to the absurdity of a klansman following around an Indian as if that was a useful endeavor for anyone). Now, WHAT ABOUT the lunatics on the left? The POINT is this is never, ever mentioned. It's always a unilateral outrage.

TLDR: I'm not contending neo's do bad shit, nor defending, nor downplaying. I'm pointing out that's the ever-loving focus on the left that cannot fathom to turn the light to the crazies in their own midst for some strange reason.

I'm at a loss as to why you find it important to specify it being an "incredibly small and unwelcomed minority" when I haven't intimated anything to the contrary.

I never said you did? But, proportionality matters, does it not? Is anyone here arguing that white people have individuals that sometimes do stupid shit? Are white people monolithic? Mayo madness endemic?

And the proportionality is relevant when discussing people as a group. i.e., Republicans for instance. Is that same concern not allowed to be acknowledged on the left's side(s) as well, or would you guys prefer your echo-chamber unmolested?

Just pointing out that it is seemingly very important to some people for some reason to minimize

I didn't minimize anything, did I?

What's the ratio of violent attacks as mentioned in the totality of living day-to-day life in a country of hundreds of millions of lives living in billions upon billions of interactions a year? It quite simply doesn't touch many lives, and that's a fact, not a minimization. That's not in any way addressing the merits or lack thereof of certain actions; it merely points out how exactly relevant it is for you or I or anyone else.

Likewise, it would be interesting to qualify and quantify the same for leftards that act out violently, because if an alien read this thread he'd (it? xer?... do aliens have pronouns??) would think the consensus is that those types don't exist, save maybe myself and Sanity.

But, if you think I've somehow 'minimized' please feel free to explain how so.

or change the subject

Seems like I'm keeping it super-relevant to me - murder and mayhem at the extreme fringes of either party. I wonder why your ilk only wishes to discuss one side of the issue, and I'm more than happy discussing it on both sides. You know, pointing out the never-ending stream of hypocrisy on the left (here and elsewhere) isn't some defense of conservative loonies, try as you might to imply that. I can think the lefties are particularly hypocritical without defending the righties, who are more transparent good, bad, or indifferent. IMO.

when it comes to the topic of white supremacy/nationalism.

I see a common theme of hypocrisy on many topics - it's certainly not limited to cracker-ass-crackers.

And yeah, inconveniently those "some people" are almost always politically conservative.

Umm, no shit? In the context of discussing white nationalists, they are the conservative fringe end of the spectrum. Ummmm, yeah? ACKNOWLEDGED (as if it had to be?). There are extreme elements in many a party; what's the issue - or do only white savages murder? Left-leaning people don't do anything, no?

It doesn't seem like you're saying that's a point of contention, so you attempting to bring up the left side of the scoreboard is you doing what exactly?

Well, at least you agree there. Yeah, I'm not contending anything in particular, nor am I defending it. I've been pretty clear from the onset that the reporting here is very clearly one-sided; a political cudgel and not so much 'reporting' but cherry-picking bad stories to poo-poo political enemies. Talk about 'in good faith' that I love to see get slung around... I'm still waiting to see so-called 'good-faith' arguments by certain individuals here (not yourself).

Oh, and on the notion of 'whataboutism' - it's not exactly inherently bad:

Christian Christensen, Professor of Journalism in Stockholm, argues that the accusation of whataboutism is itself a form of the tu quoque fallacy, as it dismisses criticisms of one's own behavior to focus instead on the actions of another, thus creating a double standard. Those who use whataboutism are not necessarily engaging in an empty or cynical deflection of responsibility: whataboutism can be a useful tool to expose contradictions, double standards, and hypocrisy.[82][83]

What you're actually saying, "waah I don't like that this doesn't agree with me so I"m gonna call it anti-conservative! WAAAAH!"

Umm, how is it anything but? A string of selective-outrage articles here always posted by the core trio that ALWAYS lean against conservatives.

And it's hilarious that you think I give two fucks about Gaetz or feel the need to defend his moral compass somehow. Not sure how you came to a conclusion that an article somehow doesn't agree with me. Whatever that means.

The inclusion of said article proves my point. That's all I said. I made no remarks about Gaetz, but the need to always find dirt on a political rival. Almost to the point of obsession or mental illness.

As in...

I don't like the seething hatred I feel for the Republican party.

tbh, this sounds like a personal problem, and probably something you should see a professional about. I know TDS is a term thrown about jokingly, but imagine living your life like this... tilting at the windmills of a political affiliation that you've cartoonishly categorized - with "seething hatred" - eesh.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 1, 2022 ---

cishet

Just never stop. Whatever it is you're doing; keep doing it. Loving the lexicon.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 1, 2022 ---

Matt Gaetz case intensifies as Florida radio host agrees to cooperate with investigators

The number of witnesses aiding the federal sex trafficking probe into the Republican congressman is growing, and it seems all of them could offer info that takes him down.

www.msnbc.com

Is anyone on the left ACTUALLY outraged with Gaetz here? Him being a Repuklican aside?

Can anyone even discuss what is meant by 'human trafficking' in the context of his investigation? Sounds suuuper bad, guys!

 

[ninjabot]

'Preventable tragedy': Fox News silent after guest dies of Covid

Chris Hayes: For ratings, for fame, for cynical, monetary purposes, that network—overseen by CEO Suzanne Scott—has decided to fan the flames of vaccine

www.msnbc.com

Edit: Wasn't gonna link this at first. Was looking for the Trump voting machine stuff, but this is more topical.

 

[xi0]

Imagine reading thousands of news stories and articles over a 20 year period.

Everything you read says: water is wet. Everything has a coherent, orderly and consistent structure to it.

Then one day, you pick up the rolling stone and its headline says: new discovery: water is not in fact, wet.

...

What would you think?

What is there to be disappointed or surprised about?

Should the result not be 100% expected and predictable?

I'm not following the analogy you're using here tbh. Are you saying every article you've read up until the one I shared denied the existence of violent white nationalism?

 

[Sanity Check]

I'm not following the analogy you're using here tbh. Are you saying every article you've read up until the one I shared denied the existence of violent white nationalism?

Among other things.

If only by omission.

The new perspective offered is also inconsistent and contradictory to past precedents and itself.

 

[xi0]

Among other things.

If only by omission.

The new perspective offered is also inconsistent and contradictory to past precedents and itself.

Is that indictment on the contents of the article, or the type of media you've chosen to consume up until this point?

 

[Sanity Check]

Is that indictment on the contents of the article, or the type of media you've chosen to consume up until this point?

Accordingly to the article, this agent allegedly infiltrated the KKK and nazis.

In reality, if he was a real agent, and if it were a legit story. He probably spent more time infiltrating and tracking greenpeace and ecoterrorist groups. Both have been responsible for far more attacks and acts of violence over the past 20 years than the KKK and nazis put together.

If he investigated nazis in the USA, it would likely be a follow up to operation paperclip or as part of the recent discovery channel reality show "finding Hitler" where an attempt was made to investigate claims of Hitler fleeing to argentina post World War II. Otherwise what would be the point? Nazis haven't been on the radar. The only place they're relevant is in europe where neo nazis believe zombie Hitler is their last best chance of making europe great again.

There are so many inconsistencies and irregularities it can't pass as legit. Not to anyone who paid attention to current events.

It was clearly written by someone who doesn't follow the news, doesn't know the material or content and doesn't understand the small intricacies and details needed for a piece like that to be accepted by the general public. Its just CNN 2.0.

The basic format and structure of it deviates widely from established norms. Conventional journalism in the USA typically follows an innocent until proven guilty format. This rolling stone piece is putting right wing conservatives on blast within the first two sentences. Massive deviation from innocent until proven guilty. The format is so far off basic established norms, it reads like a propaganda piece authored by a millennial who doesn't know anything about journalism or writing aside from basic grammar.

 

[xi0]

Accordingly to the article, this agent allegedly infiltrated the KKK and nazis.

In reality, if he was a real agent, and if it were a legit story. He probably spent more time infiltrating and tracking greenpeace and ecoterrorist groups. Both have been responsible for far more attacks and acts of violence over the past 20 years than the KKK and nazis put together.

If he investigated nazis in the USA, it would likely be a follow up to operation paperclip or as part of the recent discovery channel reality show "finding Hitler" where an attempt was made to investigate claims of Hitler fleeing to argentina post World War II. Otherwise what would be the point? Nazis haven't been on the radar. The only place they're relevant is in europe where neo nazis believe zombie Hitler is their last best chance of making europe great again.

There are so many inconsistencies and irregularities it can't pass as legit. Not to anyone who paid attention to current events.

It was clearly written by someone who doesn't follow the news, doesn't know the material or content and doesn't understand the small intricacies and details needed for a piece like that to be accepted by the general public. Its just CNN 2.0.

You do know law enforcement often has a specific beat or specialization right? This isn't a case where there's supposedly more of this so there's no way they were involved with that. This is especially true when it comes to anyone that does undercover work, because it's far easier to end up compromised if you're spinning too many plates. He looked the part so it's what he worked in.

So you're going with neo-nazis not existing because Hitler is dead essentially?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 2, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 2, 2022 ---

Oh btw please do share those 20 years of articles you have on white nationalism not being a relevant thing.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 2, 2022 ---

The basic format and structure of it deviates widely from established norms. Conventional journalism in the USA typically follows an innocent until proven guilty format. This rolling stone piece is putting right wing conservatives on blast within the first two sentences. Massive deviation from innocent until proven guilty.

Everyone in the article was anonymous... so, even if it's like you said and journalism was bound by legal ethics, how exactly would that apply to anything in it?

 

[Sanity Check]

Everyone in the article was anonymous... so, even if it's like you said and journalism was bound by legal ethics, how exactly would that apply to anything in it?

I'll try to stick to 1 point to make everything concise. Real journalists make an effort to appear objective and unbiased.

Coming out in the 2nd sentence to blame -everything- on right wing conservatives, there isn't much there objective or unbiased.

Imagine a judge in court whose reputation is based on lack of bias and impartiality blaming everything on a specific demographic of people. They would instantly lose their credibility. That is what people should expect to happen to CNN, rolling stone and others who cast their objectivity aside to roll in the mud of the shameless political blame game.

The normal process is to present facts. Until a narrative and story arises. The entire process of established norms is thrown out the window here.

There are a lot of people in the world who recognize and notice basic points like this.