American Politics

[ninjabot]

It might be nitpicking or maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but gender dysphoria isn't necessarily a factor when it comes to drag performers. Drag is a performance like most others - it's someone playing a character, wearing a costume, etc.

Oh I know, that was a mistake on me not clarifying two separate points by differentiating them enough. I'm saying both trans people and drag queens present as feminine for reasons other than sexual titillation because it seems like kckk is saying "That's the only reason a man would ever dress as a woman: for sexual gratification."

My point was that, when AMAB people have dysphoria, what they're not worrying about is how well they can make men sexually attracted to them. They're worried about passing as the gender they identify with: the fem one. And when drag queens present as feminine, they're also not doing so with the inherent purpose of making men sexually attracted to them unless expressly stated, because the character they're using for their drag persona may or may not be hyper-sexualized. It could be an expressly comedic/dramatic avatar depending on the show.

The point was for him to see my reasoning and come to the conclusion: "Oh, there are multiple reasons for an AMAB person to present as feminine without it being about sex. Maybe I shouldn't be stereotyping/generalizing drag queens like that."

 

[xi0]

Happy Pride Month

 

[catagon87]

Happy Pride Month

I'm actually entertained at the right boycotting everything on the planet. Not my quote:
"Eventually the conservatives are going to find out they can't eat MyPillows."

 

[kkck]

My surprise is that at least two boycotts have stuck so far. I can't imagine a long term effect though things like target or bud light seem to have made a real dent at least.

 

[M3J]

This whole anti-woke movement is so dumb. Imagine how bigoted and shitty you have to be to hate minorities getting representation or equality.

 

[xi0]

I'm actually entertained at the right boycotting everything on the planet. Not my quote:
"Eventually the conservatives are going to find out they can't eat MyPillows."

It's like most boycotts if you think about it, ethical consumption is pretty much impossible in the modern day. But obviously some are at least based on something noble at least... lol

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2023 ---

There's this weird juxtaposition of always finding Rainbow Capitalism cringe, but this year feels different since so many of those corporations are caving to shit-stirrers anyway. Representation is important to people, but it really just displays barefaced how cynical everything actually is.

 

[SonOfDaws]

I call BS.

Drag show: Difference between revisions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That was conveniently edited a few months back. Drag stuff has always been hyper sexual, it's straight up gaslightling that this isn't the case.

While I do think you are generally correct on the frequency of hypersexuality at such events, I think many drag show hype men aren't actually trying to gaslight and are instead remembering such things with blinders: People generally don't remember things that they don't care for much on some level.

 

[xi0]

The brass tacks of this issue is people don't want any drag performers near children - not just their children or children they're related to, but all children. Some of these people literally think they're deviant pedophiles looking to prey on children and some of these people feel weird about it because they think drag is inherently sexual. Both of these people are wrong.

Are films inherently sexual? Is theater inherently sexual? Is stand-up comedy inherently sexual? Is art inherently sexual? You can find that stuff if you go looking in the right places, sure, but it's not a requirement for any of those things to exist. Drag performers aren't putting on burlesque shows for children in school.

 

[M3J]

I don't think it's about drag people being near children. Knowing the right, they're just using children as agendas to justify being anti-drag and anti-LGBT+, because if they really cared about children, they'd be doing something about churches and the religious authority figures.

 

[xi0]

I don't think it's about drag people being near children. Knowing the right, they're just using children as agendas to justify being anti-drag and anti-LGBT+, because if they really cared about children, they'd be doing something about churches and the religious authority figures.

Their inconsistencies or hypocrisy isn't a factor in what I said.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2023 ---

Sure, they'll use whatever cudgel they can find to get their point across, but the reason it's a hot topic is because of this children thing

 

[McNuss]

One has to ask, what purpose would drag performers in school serve?

When having a topic that is that controversial in society, no matter what is the morally right stance, it is simply better to avoid overdramatized representations of said topic as a first confrontation with the topic and especially in places like school. There are underdramatized representations that serve the purpose of opening up society for a topic much better.

 

[xi0]

One has to ask, what purpose would drag performers in school serve?

When having a topic that is that controversial in society, no matter what is the morally right stance, it is simply better to avoid overdramatized representations of said topic as a first confrontation with the topic and especially in places like school. There are underdramatized representations that serve the purpose of opening up society for a topic much better.

Their "criticism" isn't limited to them being in schools though, so debating that point seems aimless to me in the end.

What are the underdramatized representations then? You know, the ones that these "people" don't also take issue with?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2023 ---

IMO this isn't about drag, it's about queerness. Drag just happens to be the loudest representation of that.

But funnily enough it's also spent just about the longest time being a part of the mainstream in any real way, and yet there's an issue with it NOW of all times.

 

[McNuss]

What are the underdramatized representations then? You know, the ones that these "people" don't also take issue with?

For this topic? In America? Better keep it out of schools for the time being.

We are talking about a country were even proper sexual education in elementary school can be problematic.

The speedway logic in which the American society tries to adress topics that it is severely lagging behind, reveals its true purpose: creating a divide, or as much divide as possible. It's a mechanism of capitalism that in the end will lead to a highly individualist society, full of anomy and void of social norms (in the sense of Durkheim). Deregutaled and socially disintegrated to the maximum, this is the desire of capitalism!

The American left needs to realize that all forms of discrimination serve capitalism, and that they are all just a piece of and subject to the greatest form of discrimination there is in our society: the discrimination of the left, inseparably linked with the greatest crimes of mankind!

It's something the Left notoriously avoids out of their idealism, always fighting for others and never for themselves! Rosa und Karl, gemeinsam in den Tod!

You have to be selfless to a cause, if you are only selfless to others you end up getting screwed over and fall into any traps set up for you. This debate here is part of one of those traps - the backlash is already visible in form of severe anti-trans policies in several states that I think no one expected in 2023 just a couple of years ago and that serve no purpose other than to further divide society and thus serve capitalism.

 

[Aeneas]

 

[xi0]

The speedway logic in which the American society tries to adress topics that it is severely lagging behind, reveals its true purpose: creating a divide, or as much divide as possible.

No one who is earnestly approaching these topics is setting out to create a divide. The people loudly objecting to them are.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 9, 2023 ---

For this topic? In America? Better keep it out of schools for the time being.

This isn't an option IMO. Unless you want to cherry-pick what should and shouldn't be taught in schools wholesale. There's plenty of topics in many places that are simply not taught or taught in a completely and utterly dishonest manner.

Education needs to be about preparing children for the world we live in, not a fanciful version of bygone days that doesn't exist.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 9, 2023 ---

Curious how is lawyers will approach denying him making false statements

 

[Aeneas]

 

[catagon87]

Curious how is lawyers will approach denying him making false statements

By quitting.

 

[M3J]

Their inconsistencies or hypocrisy isn't a factor in what I said.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2023, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2023 ---

Sure, they'll use whatever cudgel they can find to get their point across, but the reason it's a hot topic is because of this children thing

I'm saying they don't give a shit about kids.

One has to ask, what purpose would drag performers in school serve?

When having a topic that is that controversial in society, no matter what is the morally right stance, it is simply better to avoid overdramatized representations of said topic as a first confrontation with the topic and especially in places like school. There are underdramatized representations that serve the purpose of opening up society for a topic much better.

Support, normalize, and embrace people who are LGBT+, so the kids can ask them questions and talk to them instead of hearing shit from the bigots. If the older generations had this, then they might not have been as homophobic as they are now, or racist.

 

[McNuss]

No one who is earnestly approaching these topics is setting out to create a divide. The people loudly objecting to them are.

The results prove otherwise. Which makes you question wether the approach is earnest or controlled by the media.

Education needs to be about preparing children for the world we live in, not a fanciful version of bygone days that doesn't exist.

The educational system exists to turn children into capitalists and should be the focus of leftist criticism. It is labor by any scientific definition of what labor is and thus child labor.

Support, normalize, and embrace people who are LGBT+, so the kids can ask them questions and talk to them instead of hearing shit from the bigots. If the older generations had this, then they might not have been as homophobic as they are now, or racist.

But the "bigots" are these kids' parents, who have more influence over their children than the educational system anyways, and who have guns, and at least one of them is always going to use them. They also aren't bigots, but have been socialized in these norms and values they defend for decades and are quite earnest in their agenda, as bad as that may be.

Americans have this inhumane idea that sacrifices must be made along the way, which is deeply rooted in Christianity.

But you also made quite the jump here, from "drag performers in school" to general "LGBT+". There has undeniable been progress made in the past years.
"Drag performers in school" sounds like a recipe for the next massacre, though.
No one would propose the same for a conservative Muslim country like Afghanistan, but somehow it should work out in Christian conservative states?

 

[M3J]

But the "bigots" are these kids' parents, who have more influence over their children than the educational system anyways, and who have guns, and at least one of them is always going to use them. They also aren't bigots, but have been socialized in these norms and values they defend for decades and are quite earnest in their agenda, as bad as that may be.

Americans have this inhumane idea that sacrifices must be made along the way, which is deeply rooted in Christianity.

But you also made quite the jump here, from "drag performers in school" to general "LGBT+". There has undeniable been progress made in the past years.
"Drag performers in school" sounds like a recipe for the next massacre, though.
No one would propose the same for a conservative Muslim country like Afghanistan, but somehow it should work out in Christian conservative states?

They are still bigots, and it's not just the parents, but the environment like aunts, uncles, neighbors, and etc. It's not just socialization that's the issue, but the fact that they refuse to evolve and can get quite violent.

How?

People would, but also likely because conservative Muslims can be quite homicidal whereas in countries like USA, the homophobes are more likely to be punished.