American Politics

[xi0]

Dumb question, why is it illegal for trump to have inflated his properties value?

Because it's a form of financial fraud. The best example of why this is illegal that comes to mind is if he wanted a loan based on the value of Mar-a-Lago, so if he somehow was able to do that with that ludicrous 2,300% valuation, he'd get way more than the actual value of the property.

I guess one might say, well if he can find some bank or financial institution to loan him that kind of money, how much of a scam is it really? The problem comes from what he does with said money. Like using it for other investments and growing it even further, etc. Then if that money evaporates and he declares bankruptcy, the bank is left with a property that isn't actually worth what it was claimed to be. I guess in part this kind of law also exists to protect shady loaners too since it can turn into a gigantic mess.

 

[catagon87]

Because it's a form of financial fraud. The best example of why this is illegal that comes to mind is if he wanted a loan based on the value of Mar-a-Lago, so if he somehow was able to do that with that ludicrous 2,300% valuation, he'd get way more than the actual value of the property.

This is just what everyone does. I lived in Texas for quite a while and it was commonplace to write the county appraisal district yearly about how shit your home was so they'd devalue it and you end up owing less tax. "How dare you say my home is worth $715,000! Did you even SEE my swimming pool? IT HAD ALGAE!" then they drop the value and your exorbitant property taxes go down. Then when home owner is trying to get a HELOC, or home equity loan, or sell it's the opposite.. "How DARE you offer me only $2,000 over my listing price. Did you even SEE my marble floors? My steam shower? Fucking peon."

Trump just does it at a larger scale.

 

[xi0]

This is just what everyone does. I lived in Texas for quite a while and it was commonplace to write the county appraisal district yearly about how shit your home was so they'd devalue it and you end up owing less tax. "How dare you say my home is worth $715,000! Did you even SEE my swimming pool? IT HAD ALGAE!" then they drop the value and your exorbitant property taxes go down. Then when home owner is trying to get a HELOC, or home equity loan, or sell it's the opposite.. "How DARE you offer me only $2,000 over my listing price. Did you even SEE my marble floors? My steam shower? Fucking peon."

Trump just does it at a larger scale.

Oh sure, I know someone who did the same kind of thing with their townhouse. It had a daylight basement and it was finished but since he never let inspectors in he assumed the property value was decreased because they were unaware he had what was essentially a third finished floor.

Even scale aside though, there's probably a difference between doing that kind of thing for tax reasons and actually inflating the value for the kind of reasons Trump did. Granted, anyone "cheats" on their taxes in any way they can, but when you have access to that kind of line of credit due to property value, it gets a lot of attention.

Trump's only saving grace in this kind of case is the uniqueness of the property itself though. But it really does shine a light on how much of a joke the real estate industry is.

 

[kkck]

Because it's a form of financial fraud. The best example of why this is illegal that comes to mind is if he wanted a loan based on the value of Mar-a-Lago, so if he somehow was able to do that with that ludicrous 2,300% valuation, he'd get way more than the actual value of the property.

I guess one might say, well if he can find some bank or financial institution to loan him that kind of money, how much of a scam is it really? The problem comes from what he does with said money. Like using it for other investments and growing it even further, etc. Then if that money evaporates and he declares bankruptcy, the bank is left with a property that isn't actually worth what it was claimed to be. I guess in part this kind of law also exists to protect shady loaners too since it can turn into a gigantic mess.

Really? I figured the issue here could be something like him being required by law to at least technically tell the truth and him of course not meeting the even the loosest definition of having told the truth. The actual usage of the money after that shouldn't be the issue. Remembering a bit further back, trump does have a history of not paying back his loans... No idea of what the law says here but if you put together him grossly inflating his property value to get loans which are in context absurd and combine that with his history of not paying off his loans then... it kinda looks life theft? I don't think this is something that could be argued in court but... man, banks are fucking stupid.

 

[xi0]

Really? I figured the issue here could be something like him being required by law to at least technically tell the truth and him of course not meeting the even the loosest definition of having told the truth. The actual usage of the money after that shouldn't be the issue. Remembering a bit further back, trump does have a history of not paying back his loans... No idea of what the law says here but if you put together him grossly inflating his property value to get loans which are in context absurd and combine that with his history of not paying off his loans then... it kinda looks life theft? I don't think this is something that could be argued in court but... man, banks are fucking stupid.

It involves banking regulations I guess more than law, though the former is obviously based in part on the latter.

But yeah, being truthful about property value does fall under what you're saying, though obviously everybody gets advantages where they can. The issue is Trump is a target of the DEEP STATE now /s so they're going through his shit with a fine tooth comb.

 

[kkck]

It involves banking regulations I guess more than law, though the former is obviously based in part on the latter.

But yeah, being truthful about property value does fall under what you're saying, though obviously everybody gets advantages where they can. The issue is Trump is a target of the DEEP STATE now /s so they're going through his shit with a fine tooth comb.

Framed like that it sounds more like this is the bank's problem more than it is trump's. Gonna try and read up more on this because as I understand it trump is being charged with fraud but to me the damage he would have caused is not immediately obvious. Even if the law is against inflating property values there is an element of subjectivity to this, there's wiggle room. You can easily make the case that a property could conceivably be worth more than a formal appraisal says since it's the real state industry... But if the law says you can't do this and you have inflated your property values many times over for loans and you also didn't pay back at least some of those loans then maybe you shouldn't be running for president. It's ultimately just not wrong to put any president's personal finances through the finest of combs.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 5, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 5, 2023 ---

So now biden is using executive power to build some sections of the wall....What a strange world we live in.

 

[xi0]

Framed like that it sounds more like this is the bank's problem more than it is trump's. Gonna try and read up more on this because as I understand it trump is being charged with fraud but to me the damage he would have caused is not immediately obvious. Even if the law is against inflating property values there is an element of subjectivity to this, there's wiggle room. You can easily make the case that a property could conceivably be worth more than a formal appraisal says since it's the real state industry... But if the law says you can't do this and you have inflated your property values many times over for loans and you also didn't pay back at least some of those loans then maybe you shouldn't be running for president. It's ultimately just not wrong to put any president's personal finances through the finest of combs.

Well, the way I see it is it's fraud either way. Just because almost everyone does it, doesn't make it "safe" necessarily. It's like getting caught for one minor thing and then they find out you haven't paid taxes in 20 years. The subjectivity aspect of it seems to be the reason why it's considered fraud full-stop, but maybe I took the wrong interpretation.

But yeah, this law clearly exists to protect banks and loan institutions as much as it does to punish people like him, no doubt.

So now biden is using executive power to build some sections of the wall....What a strange world we live in.

For some reason he thinks the people who think he's a walking corpse fueled by adrenochrome will suddenly look at him differently for this. Democrats are so funny.

 

[kkck]

Well, the way I see it is it's fraud either way. Just because almost everyone does it, doesn't make it "safe" necessarily. It's like getting caught for one minor thing and then they find out you haven't paid taxes in 20 years. The subjectivity aspect of it seems to be the reason why it's considered fraud full-stop, but maybe I took the wrong interpretation.

But yeah, this law clearly exists to protect banks and loan institutions as much as it does to punish people like him, no doubt.



For some reason he thinks the people who think he's a walking corpse fueled by adrenochrome will suddenly look at him differently for this. Democrats are so funny.

Read up a bit more on the charges.. it's not that they are accusing him or his family of telling some assholes that his property was worth however much more, he is accused of falsifying financial statements. I am not entirely familiar with the minutiae of US law in this regard but generally a business is required to be truthful in this sort of thing. This isn't trump just saying in conversation his property is worth his weight in gold, it's surprising this isn't a criminal trial yet...

Wait, biden is trying to appeal to that crowd? I've read about the recent migrant situation is new york and it looks pretty bad but I feel like I am not getting the full context just yet.

 

[Newkerzy]

So now biden is using executive power to build some sections of the wall....What a strange world we live in.

From what I have at least read, this is due to a quirk in the law that prevents him from re-routing the budget elsewhere. From the looks of it, this seems like whoever the next president after Drumpf was going to be set up to fail.

I don’t have much more to go off, though.

 

[kkck]

From what I have at least read, this is due to a quirk in the law that prevents him from re-routing the budget elsewhere. From the looks of it, this seems like whoever the next president after Drumpf was going to be set up to fail.

I don’t have much more to go off, though.

Yeah, just read that as well. Headlines were quite misleading on these details. At this point it is surprising that biden couldn't just redirect those funds with the same discretion as trump appropriated them to begin with.

 

[xi0]

Read up a bit more on the charges.. it's not that they are accusing him or his family of telling some assholes that his property was worth however much more, he is accused of falsifying financial statements. I am not entirely familiar with the minutiae of US law in this regard but generally a business is required to be truthful in this sort of thing. This isn't trump just saying in conversation his property is worth his weight in gold, it's surprising this isn't a criminal trial yet...

Well yeah, the statement itself isn't the issue there, it's an official claim that other financial proceedings would be based off of that's the problem.

Wait, biden is trying to appeal to that crowd? I've read about the recent migrant situation is new york and it looks pretty bad but I feel like I am not getting the full context just yet.

Whether that's the stated reason or not, it's not the first time a Democrat has swung slightly right of center close to elections. Plus the mainstream's tendency to box the ears of progressives before wanting to offend moderates is nothing new either.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2023 ---

Seems like stupid policy as whatever they're building down there isn't going to address the issue much at all. A waste of money.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 8, 2023 ---

idk if this is recent or not but lmao

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 8, 2023 ---

He'd be so much more fun if the worst people ever didn't take him seriously

 

[Raven]

If anything unites America, It is their unexplained love and volunteered slavery to Israel. Providing them over 150 Billion in total from tax money. Most of left and right are with Israel. Pathetic but thats how America operates, Glorifying theft and war because thats how that country was founded.

 

[M3J]

It's actually sad to see how many people support Israel, but not surprising either considering how powerful the propaganda machine has been for Israel. Not to mention the hatred for Muslims.

 

[Raven]

The ADL had the audacity to post a footage of bombing civilian towers and buildings on twitter, They are so backed up by many and it was enough for them to post this war crime to everyone to see when it is against international community law btw. The world don't give a fuck about Palestinians. In fact they cheer the killing and the genocide of Palestinians, and Always turning a blindeye to zionist crimes.

Principles are indivisible, People don't get to understand this notion, If you are against violence, racism, war, rape, theft, murder, etc, You can't say i stand with Israel or even support it in any shape or form because Israel is killing and target practice innocents, steal their lands and force them to demolish their buildings, pollute their water, kidnapping their children and violate them on daily basis. Even before Hamas existence btw. You can't even say i stand with innocent Israelis, Almost every Israeli served in the military, And many of them migrated from all over the world and holding 2 passports, They fully aware and know that they are stealing lands that doesn't belong to them. The first thing they would do when there is a crisis is running back to their original country home. Palestinians don't run when they get bombed, They stay and pray. All you need is little morals and common sense to know that backing up Israel is moral retardation.

It is even worse when they try to paint Palestinians as the bad people due to fake propaganda and lies. There is no doubt, No Palestinian love an Israeli but that doesn't mean they would massacre them all Israelis and wipe them off the map, They would express their anger using horrible words but its just talks. They are humans, and they have feelings, How can you ask the victim to not express their anger and frustration when they are getting killed for over 60 years now? Yes there are extremists and lunatics but its the case in every place on this earth. The difference is the world are enabling Israeli extremists and justify their crimes, and these very people of the world scream human rights, anti racism, equality, etc. It make no sense. hypocrisy at its peak. It also proves that people are just going with the flow, and don't really stick to their moral claims if it is against the tide.

 

[Newkerzy]

It's actually sad to see how many people support Israel, but not surprising either considering how powerful the propaganda machine has been for Israel. Not to mention the hatred for Muslims.

It doesn’t help that the Palestinians are often at each others’ necks too. With them being constantly divided, there just isn’t any way how lasting peace will ever be reached.

Not to mention that they’ve done really stupid things that does not help their case in the international community’s eyes. Case in point? The Munich Olympics attacks. CMIIW

 

[Raven]

international community’s eyes.

lmao. They have been blind to Zionists crimes for over 60 years

 

[Newkerzy]

lmao. They have been blind to Zionists crimes for over 60 years

I think (more) people were initially sympathetic towards the palestinians at first, but then the Olympics attacks happened, which was seen as neutral ground. After that, the propaganda machine just did their thing and the narrative instantly flipped.

 

[Raven]

I think (more) people were initially sympathetic towards the palestinians at first, but then the Olympics attacks happened, which was seen as neutral ground. After that, the propaganda machine just did their thing and the narrative instantly flipped.

You talk about a past generations. Now no one would dig halfway through the past and stop there at this incidence. The war crimes committed by zionists can be found anywhere in the past or now in the present and also easily predictable the future. Its not rocket science to say who is the aggressor and who is the victim. People hate because they want to hate, If people wanted the truth, They would never believe the current bs.

 

[catagon87]

Oh sure, I know someone who did the same kind of thing with their townhouse. It had a daylight basement and it was finished but since he never let inspectors in he assumed the property value was decreased because they were unaware he had what was essentially a third finished floor.

Even scale aside though, there's probably a difference between doing that kind of thing for tax reasons and actually inflating the value for the kind of reasons Trump did. Granted, anyone "cheats" on their taxes in any way they can, but when you have access to that kind of line of credit due to property value, it gets a lot of attention.

Trump's only saving grace in this kind of case is the uniqueness of the property itself though. But it really does shine a light on how much of a joke the real estate industry is.

Yeah. I'm no Trump fan, but my understanding is that this is why banks hire their own appraisers and don't take your word for it. Situation has me a bit torn. Is it fraud to misrepresent value? Sure. Is property value objective? No. Without knowing a ton of details on the case (SBF's trial and the situation in Gaza / Israel are occupying my mental real estate atm) I'm really curious how he even manages to inflate the values to his benefit.

 

[kkck]

As far as I understand what trump has done is accused of is roughly:

1.- Falsify financial statements.
2.- Use those to get incredibly high loans which he otherwise wouldn't qualify for.
3.- Invest that money.

A financial statement is something which by law is required to be truthful. Not sure about the specifics of US law but in most cases public and private companies hand over financial statements to competent authorities every year. These also relate to taxes paid by said companies.

As a sidenote, trump also has a history of not paying back loans to banks. All of this paints a pretty horrible picture of trump organization. Presenting accurate financial statements is less than the bare minimum. I lack a fair bit of context regarding what exactly is going on tbh but it's hard to see how this doesn't spill into a whole other host of problems. Pretty much anyone who has been presented with said falsified financial statements should be out for a pound of flesh.