American Politics

ninjabot

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I wonder if Alan Lichtman will accept that his Keys finally failed him or find an excuse for why they were correct and the right person won according to them?

Poor guy.
 

James Rye

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I wonder if Alan Lichtman will accept that his Keys finally failed him or find an excuse for why they were correct and the right person won according to them?

Poor guy.
He probably has to invent a new key - grievance. Or emotion or something like that. Well, in the end his key-theory got busted now.
 

kkck

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Comments on this thread are fun. Lots of "why are they voting against themselves"...
 

ninjabot

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No! Democrats should offer to legalize more illegal immigrants. Next time latinos will definitely warm up to that.
To be clear, I was making a spiteful/borderline racist joke about not allowing people into the country that are conservative-leaning.
 

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To be clear, I was making a spiteful/borderline racist joke about not allowing people into the country that are conservative-leaning.
I got that.
 

ninjabot

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I got that.
Cool. It's not my true feelings by the way, it's just something that nagged in the back of my head every time I kept hearing about Latinos moving more and more toward Trump over the few years.

With that said, Russia is about to start being the main villain in all action movies like they were back in the 70s and 80s. They've essentially destabilized the West in just 8 years. Putin is winning.
 

James Rye

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Tbf if the West can be this easily destabilized in a couple years, then it kinda deserves it.
 

xi0

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At least electorally, the opposite. Personally, I'd go for mass deportations, permanently banning people who enter the country illegally from the possibility of even a tourist visa, severely punishing businesses that hire illegal immigrants, working on legal immigration pathways that respond to US job market conditions and needs. Don't separate families at the border, that shit is cruel and inhuman, deport them together. Cut illegal immigrants off from social services. Get the military involved at the border from time to time.
Mass deportations are not feasible. It would be a humanitarian and logistical nightmare and would tank the economy. It's like the wall bullshit - it's one thing to run on it and it's another to actually do it. He might try but it won't make a dent IMO.

Severely punishing businesses that do it could have addressed the issue in a better way, but this would never happen, especially not by a Republican. Even less likely is a Republican advocating for these jobs to have better wages, meaning more Americans would do those jobs.

The only solution is amnesty, and even neocons like the Bush family knew this to be the case, that's why they were for it in the hopes of it benefiting them electorally.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Part of the reason Trump has been elected twice is due to literal Blood and Soil rhetoric, but from an economic standpoint even he will need to capitulate to avoid tanking the economy IMO
 

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Cool. It's not my true feelings by the way, it's just something that nagged in the back of my head every time I kept hearing about Latinos moving more and more toward Trump over the few years.

With that said, Russia is about to start being the main villain in all action movies like they were back in the 70s and 80s. They've essentially destabilized the West in just 8 years. Putin is winning.
I think you'll be surprised at the tolerance latinos can have for racist/sexist jokes( as long as they are jokes).

You are late to the russia party. Trump became president in 2016 because Russia's troll farms and overall disinformation campaigns were comically effective. It's not even a US issue, western civilization and democratic values are burning.
 

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I hope people will start taking that "Positive Masculinity" I was talking about in that other thread I made seriously now. The Right is the political party for anyone that's a straight male, regardless of race, but especially if you're white. The Left doesn't have anything to offer young men except accusations that they're the bad guy for just existing. And the most famous men in our culture right now are the ones saying "It's not your fault, it's everyone else's fault."
 

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I hope people will start taking that "Positive Masculinity" I was talking about in that other thread I made seriously now. The Right is the political party for anyone that's a straight male, regardless of race, but especially if you're white. The Left doesn't have anything to offer young men except accusations that they're the bad guy for just existing. And the most famous men in our culture right now are the ones saying "It's not your fault, it's everyone else's fault."
Who in politics is doing that? Outside of people justifyingly blaming men for the stripping of reproductive rights?
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

idk, maybe I'm off base but the suggestion that men are disaffected because of the Left is incredibly disingenuous
 

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Mass deportations are not feasible. It would be a humanitarian and logistical nightmare and would tank the economy. It's like the wall bullshit - it's one thing to run on it and it's another to actually do it. He might try but it won't make a dent IMO.
I was thinking this. I expect an uptick in deportations, but mass deportation is impossible, and I don't think Republicans are so patriotic they'll tank the economy in the name of ideology.

You are late to the russia party. Trump became president in 2016 because Russia's troll farms and overall disinformation campaigns were comically effective. It's not even a US issue, western civilization and democratic values are burning.
I knew they were working behind the scenes for years, I just didn't think they were that ingrained into our politics that they had this much control.

Who in politics is doing that? Outside of people justifyingly blaming men for the stripping of reproductive rights?
I mean culturally, not politically. The most vocal advocates for cultural movements aren't the actual politicians.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

idk, maybe I'm off base but the suggestion that men are disaffected because of the Left is incredibly disingenuous
Seriously? Have you been ignoring throughout the entire Andrew Tate fiasco all of the video essays and news articles about young white men moving over to the Right? You didn't hear ANY of that at all?

Seriously!?
 

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I mean culturally, not politically. The most vocal advocates for cultural movements aren't the actual politicians.
That seems like a catch 22 to me - if you think feminist critique is at all valid, then there is justification for critiquing the modern sense of what masculinity is. People like Andrew Tate are popular because they're lying about what these discussions are about. I don't think you combat these kinds of things by coddling, so to speak.
 

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Mass deportations are not feasible. It would be a humanitarian and logistical nightmare and would tank the economy. It's like the wall bullshit - it's one thing to run on it and it's another to actually do it. He might try but it won't make a dent IMO.

Severely punishing businesses that do it could have addressed the issue in a better way, but this would never happen, especially not by a Republican. Even less likely is a Republican advocating for these jobs to have better wages, meaning more Americans would do those jobs.

The only solution is amnesty, and even neocons like the Bush family knew this to be the case, that's why they were for it in the hopes of it benefiting them electorally.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Part of the reason Trump has been elected twice is due to literal Blood and Soil rhetoric, but from an economic standpoint even he will need to capitulate to avoid tanking the economy IMO
I don't really disagree with most of that. It's not about simply kicking people out and it's obviously not possible to deport everyone over any period of time. But if you wall off illegal immigrants from both jobs and public services while at the same setting up systems to streamline temporal and permanent immigration based on US labor needs you are basically taken away the incentive to simply walk (or fly) into the country and stay there illegally. While at the same time you are encouraging immigration that benefits the country. And significantly reducing the number of folk seeing asylum while at it.

And just to be clear, I have no hope whatsoever of trump setting up something like this (on purpose). Maybe his cruelty could deter some folk from making it to the US but that wouldn't fix a broken system. Trump's too deep into the "small government" thing to ever set up a functional government system.
 

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Seriously? Have you been ignoring throughout the entire Andrew Tate fiasco all of the video essays and news articles about young white men moving over to the Right? You didn't hear ANY of that at all?

Seriously!?
No I haven't, I just object to the idea that men only have to hear nice things in order to change that. Tate isn't an honest person, and neither is any Red-Pill or MRA types.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I don't really disagree with most of that. It's not about simply kicking people out and it's obviously not possible to deport everyone over any period of time. But if you wall off illegal immigrants from both jobs and public services while at the same setting up systems to streamline temporal and permanent immigration based on US labor needs you are basically taken away the incentive to simply walk (or fly) into the country and stay there illegally. While at the same time you are encouraging immigration that benefits the country. And significantly reducing the number of folk seeing asylum while at it.
How do you "wall off" illegal immigrants from jobs? Small business owners (mostly his voters) are hiring them. Also I think denying public services to them when they pay taxes is inhumane, personally.

Like I said before, the only way to truly de-incentivize is by making these jobs pay a livable wage to Americans. That will never happen, especially under a Republican.
 

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That seems like a catch 22 to me - if you think feminist critique is at all valid, then there is justification for critiquing the modern sense of what masculinity is.
Agreed, hence my Positive Masculinity thread that was stillborn. The idea was to find out what people think a left-leaning masculine ideal would be so that we can package it to young men and keep our hold on the culture.

People like Andrew Tate are popular because they're lying about what these discussions are about. I don't think you combat these kinds of things by coddling, so to speak.
Coddling? See, that's part of the problem. I want to appeal to these kids. That's not the same as coddling.

No I haven't, I just object to the idea that men only have to hear nice things in order to change that. Tate isn't an honest person, and neither is any Red-Pill or MRA types.
Why does that matter if men feel like he's right? Don't even go to the Redpill extreme, just ask yourself about normal ass liberal white dudes. What does the Left offer them? They're the most privileged of all of us, obviously, but what do you think it does to a young man to be told things like "You can't be racist to white people" or "check your privilege" when they have a complaint or (and this one I care least about) seeing white main characters in media as being a slight against the media itself for being "backwards and regressive"?
 

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Agreed, hence my Positive Masculinity thread that was stillborn. The idea was to find out what people think a left-leaning masculine ideal would be so that we can package it to young men and keep our hold on the culture.
Yeah I don't have an issue with that at all

Why does that matter if men feel like he's right? Don't even go to the Redpill extreme, just ask yourself about normal ass liberal white dudes. What does the Left offer them? They're the most privileged of all of us, obviously, but what do you think it does to a young man to be told things like "You can't be racist to white people" or "check your privilege" when they have a complaint or (and this one I care least about) seeing white main characters in media as being a slight against the media itself for being "backwards and regressive"?
Why does it have to be seen as transactional? Your views are based on how you interface with the world and I think there are still enough left-leaning white people who do so despite the acknowledgement of things like systemic racial injustice. How much they care about it might be another thing.

Who is saying those things to people in the real world though? There are of course more productive ways to have these kinds of conversations but as a white person I've never experienced something that I would perceive as a slight because of my race. Maybe I'm a naive idiot, but that's simply not something I've experienced among people I'd consider like-minded. I'd say I've received far more chastisement from those who are most likely politically right.
 

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How do you "wall off" illegal immigrants from jobs? Small business owners (mostly his voters) are hiring them. Also I think denying public services to them when they pay taxes is inhumane, personally.

Like I said before, the only way to truly de-incentivize is by making these jobs pay a livable wage to Americans. That will never happen, especially under a Republican.
Just take measures to make sure illegal immigrants can't work. Most countries punish folk who enter countries illegally and work without the required paperwork. Fines, prison, deportation.... The US taking shit for doing what a majority of people in the planet expect their governments to do would be the most inane double standard I have heard of so far. That also solves the moral quandary of denying public services to taxpayers (which yeah, would be criminal). I don't doubt fixing this will be painful but what is going on in the US right now immigration wise is ridiculously far removed from sanity. No one wants what democrats are selling here, not even the people democrats were trying to cater to with it.

I agree, republicans in their current state couldn't build a functional government even by accident. You can't build a functional government or a democracy when your entire ideology is dismantling the government.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I knew they were working behind the scenes for years, I just didn't think they were that ingrained into our politics that they had this much control.
Give it some more time until it sets in that one of the biggest issues of our time is that societies in the world have not come up with a way to reasonably deal with folk overseas writing mean twits in bad faith. And sometimes not even folks, just robots and more recently AI...
 

xi0

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Just take measures to make sure illegal immigrants can't work. Most countries punish folk who enter countries illegally and work without the required paperwork. Fines, prison, deportation.... The US taking shit for doing what a majority of people in the planet expect their governments to do would be the most inane double standard I have heard of so far. That also solves the moral quandary of denying public services to taxpayers (which yeah, would be criminal). I don't doubt fixing this will be painful but what is going on in the US right now immigration wise is ridiculously far removed from sanity. No one wants what democrats are selling here, not even the people democrats were trying to cater to with it.

I agree, republicans in their current state couldn't build a functional government even by accident. You can't build a functional government or a democracy when your entire ideology is dismantling the government.
The reason amnesty is brought up by even Republicans is because of the sheer volume of the issue itself and how essential it is for our economy.

What do you think Democrats are selling here though? Biden and Harris essentially advocated for Trump's border policy...
 
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