American Politics

shionoro

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I don't find it strange at all. It makes perfect sense when you look at who's generally doing it.

Republicans are too busy rubbing their victory in our faces to attack us for what we're doing because... we can't do anything. They've got a Flawless Victory right now. So they aren't the ones doing it.

So who's doing it? Who's generally attacking Democrats?:

1: Leftist media outlets that wants to point out that they're leftier-than-thou for moral updoots on twitter. TYT, Majority Report, The Vanguard, The Serfs, Brianna Joy Grey, you get it.

2: Anti-woke grifters/their fans that believe the Democrats are the hyper-progressive caricatures that Tim Pool says they are and don't wanna vote for the NO Fun Brigade. The average Joe Rogan fan would be here. ALL of the Daily Wire, for sure.

3: Foreigners who have no stake in the game but do have political leanings that differ from what they view Democrats as... at least enough to keep harping on those particular differences.
I think it goes both sides and the reason is desperation and fear.

It is easier to blame either democrats or the american voters than to face the apocalyptic situation you are in right now. It is the same with the climate crisis. People would rather talk about what kind of protest is okay or whether some protestors overdid it than facing the fact that our world is drifting towards collapse and it is unclear what few safeties can be maintained.

But that is wrong, right now, it is not the time for blame each other but to build a common front.

I think AOC did a good thing recently, openly helping immigrants to evade ICE. Helping other people goes a long way gaining trust. That kind of thinking has to be extended to any working and middle class American who struggles right now.

On that note, leadership figures have to be consensus oriented to build a common front. That means they have to listen and accept many different views. If there are people who are insanely unhappy with democrat policies, there needs to be a discussion among equals to figure out something that most people can be happy with. You cannot catch everyone, but you can catch most people of each group that would at least potentially be willing to vote for you.
 

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I think it goes both sides and the reason is desperation and fear.
Well, yeah.

It is easier to blame either democrats or the american voters than to face the apocalyptic situation you are in right now. It is the same with the climate crisis. People would rather talk about what kind of protest is okay or whether some protestors overdid it than facing the fact that our world is drifting towards collapse and it is unclear what few safeties can be maintained.
Sure.

But that is wrong, right now, it is not the time for blame each other but to build a common front.
Agreed. You'll notice if you go back and re-read, I never said voters who abstained from voting were the reason Kamala lost. I just attacked them for not helping, not for being responsible for the loss. Fuck those people.

I think AOC did a good thing recently, openly helping immigrants to evade ICE. Helping other people goes a long way gaining trust. That kind of thinking has to be extended to any working and middle class American who struggles right now.
Agreed again. But I think that coincides with MY strategy I've been harping about for the past week: things need to get so bad that voters are looking for a savior. Abstainers, Independents, and apolitical non voters who need to experience the hell caused by Republicans. It needs to hit them where they live. Their homes, their wallets, their hearts. It's those events that will make them turn around. Because it's much easier for Democrats to sell hope to people when they're starving for it. We can't change the mind of MAGA Americans, because they're zealots. They think their God King Trump will save them. They've got all the hope they can ever well... hope for.

But the people who just chose Trump as an alternative for a Biden presidency that left them feeling hopeless? Who now regret their choices? Those people are still looking for a change. Those are the people that're gonna swing back tot he Democratic party.

I just hope it's not impossible to fix what Trump's set up by then.

On that note, leadership figures have to be consensus oriented to build a common front. That means they have to listen and accept many different views. If there are people who are insanely unhappy with democrat policies, there needs to be a discussion among equals to figure out something that most people can be happy with. You cannot catch everyone, but you can catch most people of each group that would at least potentially be willing to vote for you.
Yeah, I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying.
 

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I don't think that we can wait for Democrats. Hopefully, there will be trustworthy leadership figures emerging from somewhere in the party, but for anyone who deems themselves against fascism, they need to take up this fight now.

If there is no pressure from the streets against the authoritarian measures Trump is pushing right now, I doubt your elections will be remotely fair for long. There are more entities than Democrats that can take up this fight (even tho Democrats are obviously crucial).

If there is a powerful movement like BLM in the 2020 election, democrats are going to pick up on that.
Yeah, and two or three seem to be emerging. Again, Jasmine Crockett seems to be doing amazing, and AOC seems to have gone back to being a leftist again. But we also need to criticize Democrats and make sure they are better, otherwise we'll just keep losing elections that we shouldn't be. There was absolutely no reason why we shouldn't have won 2016 and 2024.

It also doesn't look like Dems want to really fight the Republicans when the majority are tweeting about republicans doing evil things, while only a few Dems are actually fighting back and confronting them. I'm not sure what the leftists are doing, but I feel like the much further left, the ones that refused to vote, are likely whatever.

The politicians will hijack it and be performative, and it'll hurt them.
 

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Trump is not going to fix anything. Trump is leading this country towards an oligarchy without free elections. I find it strange that people chose to talk more about democrat failings than republicans tossing the country into collapse.

As it stands now, the US is an authoritarian state by 2028. Whatever democrats did wrong: The talking point should be how to fight back against that, not what democrats might have done wrong in the past.
It's probably too soon to go on about the oligarchy without free elections. Nothing has changed that makes it impossible to vote out republicans even if republicans are making negative sweeping changes in other areas incredibly fast. This isn't just about voting republicans out of office. Democrats have their share of the blame here and they need to have an agenda that makes for viable policy and governance. Biden was already a "not trump" candidate for 4 years and all it caused so much apathy in their voter base that trump won a landslide victory. None of the things democrats wailed at everyone they could got more than a shrug. Even now you have trump doing all the stuff he is doing and people go "meh, what's the alternative?". This is the time to evocate democrats so that next elections they don't even entertain the moronic thought of going with hillary.
 

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It's probably too soon to go on about the oligarchy without free elections. Nothing has changed that makes it impossible to vote out republicans even if republicans are making negative sweeping changes in other areas incredibly fast. This isn't just about voting republicans out of office. Democrats have their share of the blame here and they need to have an agenda that makes for viable policy and governance. Biden was already a "not trump" candidate for 4 years and all it caused so much apathy in their voter base that trump won a landslide victory. None of the things democrats wailed at everyone they could got more than a shrug. Even now you have trump doing all the stuff he is doing and people go "meh, what's the alternative?". This is the time to evocate democrats so that next elections they don't even entertain the moronic thought of going with hillary.
Why would that be too soon? It is right now that there is still a chance to stop it.

Whatever democrats did, they never willingly destroyed the whole fabric of government with mass firings, openly said that they are not going to listen to court decisions and pushed for legislation that would make it pretty much impossible for the other party to win.

Like, when is the point of resistance and stopping to complain about democrats? When the concentration camps are done?

Criticising democrats for things they are doing right now in order to find a better strategy is fine and necessary. But who the fuck cares about democrat past mistakes right now when Trump and Elon are creating irreparable damage to democracy in the timeframe of months?

When I am saying that democrats should not blame voters for their own mistakes, then the reverse is also true. Activists are necessary to fight back against fascism. A reaction from civil society is not just the duty of democrats, but of everyone. There are too many people who complain about democrat strategy instead of being active in unions, NGO, protests or other forms of resistance. They shrug, they don't fight, and that is on them, just like democrat mistakes are on democrats.
 
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kkck

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Why would that be too soon? It is right now that there is still a chance to stop it.

Whatever democrats did, they never willingly destroyed the whole fabric of government with mass firings, openly said that they are not going to listen to court decisions and pushed for legislation that would make it pretty much impossible for the other party to win.

Like, when is the point of resistance and stopping to complain about democrats? When the concentration camps are done?

Criticising democrats for things they are doing right now in order to find a better strategy is fine and necessary. But who the fuck cares about democrat past mistakes right now when Trump and Elon are creating irreparable damage to democracy in the timeframe of months?

When I am saying that democrats should not blame voters for their own mistakes, then the reverse is also true. Activists are necessary to fight back against fascism. A reaction from civil society is not just the duty of democrats, but of everyone. There are too many people who complain about democrat strategy instead of being active in unions, NGO, protests or other forms of resistance. They shrug, they don't fight, and that is on them, just like democrat mistakes are on democrats.
But... Stop what? What is trump doing to ensure an oligarchy is permanently in charge of the government? Until things take a couple more turns its still 99% certain that less than four years from now elections will be business as usual. Add to that, democrats have basically zero power now. Whats next to look forward to is the next election cycle.

No one cares about her of course. But when has that stopped democrats from at least trying to run with her before? It doesn't seem like the current party's structure is even about to start changing either.
 

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But... Stop what? What is trump doing to ensure an oligarchy is permanently in charge of the government? Until things take a couple more turns its still 99% certain that less than four years from now elections will be business as usual. Add to that, democrats have basically zero power now. Whats next to look forward to is the next election cycle.

No one cares about her of course. But when has that stopped democrats from at least trying to run with her before? It doesn't seem like the current party's structure is even about to start changing either.
He is putting the supreme court, the lower judges, government personell and military personell under his personal control to delete any opposition, while he and Musk openly state that they do not respect judges and courts. They put people into important positions who are openly pro eugenics. Even before now, they are trying to meddle with election security and fire or threaten those who are in charge of that.

If that is not fought now, it cannot be fought when he is finalized.

But the actual issue matters less than rallying around issues. The mass deportations would be a great start to build a united front. it is an existential threat that most americans do not support and there are already some protests against it. If every single turn, there is no resistance, the next bigger step is going to follow. So whatever issue it is that people care about, they need to put up a fight so others can even rally around it. There are many different ways to become active, whether it is joining a party, joining a group or even just donating and going to protests. The important part is that there needs to be a united spirit to resist shared between many different groups, and that is what we lack right now.
 

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He is putting the supreme court, the lower judges, government personell and military personell under his personal control to delete any opposition, while he and Musk openly state that they do not respect judges and courts. They put people into important positions who are openly pro eugenics. Even before now, they are trying to meddle with election security and fire or threaten those who are in charge of that.

If that is not fought now, it cannot be fought when he is finalized.

But the actual issue matters less than rallying around issues. The mass deportations would be a great start to build a united front. it is an existential threat that most americans do not support and there are already some protests against it. If every single turn, there is no resistance, the next bigger step is going to follow. So whatever issue it is that people care about, they need to put up a fight so others can even rally around it. There are many different ways to become active, whether it is joining a party, joining a group or even just donating and going to protests. The important part is that there needs to be a united spirit to resist shared between many different groups, and that is what we lack right now.
Even if that was the apocalyptic scenario you describe... Democrats can't do much of anything about it. They'll have some power mostly based on increasingly non existent opposition to trump in the republican party. Hell, opposition to trump has been a terrible investment for anyone in US politics (remember michael cohen?).


Add to that, trump isn't flying solo this time around, he has a whole apparatus working to implement a vision (not necessarily his vision, him having any is debatable). AND he already is far more popular than biden ever was.

Democrats have to look at the next elections to regain some manner of power. What happens in the next two years they mostly can't do shit about.
 

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Even if that was the apocalyptic scenario you describe... Democrats can't do much of anything about it. They'll have some power mostly based on increasingly non existent opposition to trump in the republican party. Hell, opposition to trump has been a terrible investment for anyone in US politics (remember michael cohen?).
It is not only the democrats' duty to do anything about it. There is more than electoral power. What democrats and other forces need to do right now is to build up a shared front. Even if they had zero seats, that would remain true and possible.

The preparation needs to be to find key issues that people can rally behind and become a trustworthy leadership figure, making inroads to protestors, NGO and so on. That is exactly what they have neglected in the last decade and what is necessary to do right now. If there is a loud 30% of the country, Trump cannot push through everything quite as easily because you can still put pressure on many levels. And obviously, that kind of common front carries over to the midterms.

Building that up or at least supporting the process via votes/donations/being vocal is a duty shared by everyone.

If Democrats wait until the election and just run with "We are not Trump" again, they are going to lose, even if half the country hates Trump, because there is just too much apathy.
 

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It is not only the democrats' duty to do anything about it. There is more than electoral power. What democrats and other forces need to do right now is to build up a shared front. Even if they had zero seats, that would remain true and possible.

The preparation needs to be to find key issues that people can rally behind and become a trustworthy leadership figure, making inroads to protestors, NGO and so on. That is exactly what they have neglected in the last decade and what is necessary to do right now. If there is a loud 30% of the country, Trump cannot push through everything quite as easily because you can still put pressure on many levels. And obviously, that kind of common front carries over to the midterms.

Building that up or at least supporting the process via votes/donations/being vocal is a duty shared by everyone.

If Democrats wait until the election and just run with "We are not Trump" again, they are going to lose, even if half the country hates Trump, because there is just too much apathy.
I mean, it's mostly up to democrats because there isn't an alternative to them and there won't be one in the foreseeable future (barring a political tsunami bigger than trump ever was).

I don't doubt the importance of grassroot work, my thinking assumes that over the next 2 years at least. I am not saying democrats should do nothing for the next two years, I am saying they currently have virtually no power and have a couple years to build up an actual movement. I also don't think a loud 30% will be enough this time around. Maybe in trump's first presidency but this time around it's different. Trump doesn't have to deal with moderating voices like paul ryan anymore and the rest of the party is pretty unanimously behind him. As I said before, there's a clear vision this time around and the apparatus to implement it. Not only that but trump is actually popular for now while democrats are seen as ineffective, spineless hacks (if not that, I'd frame this as biden's presidency being soul crushing for the country). My current read of US politics is that at least in the short terms trump is more likely to get more popular than less popular at least (I am not making bets on the mid or long term and by short term I mean the next few months at the most).

On the grassroot front I will admit there's something I am fairly cynical about. In the current times a single meme/fake-news can instantly upend months or years of grassroot work. And trump's got them memes. And US enemies put output memes as if they were made at chinese sweatshops. Though russia is the more likely culprit.
 

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As an answer to both of you, @ninjabot @kkck , I can outline what I think is working over here and what I think would also work in the US.

The Left Party (actual name) in Germany used to be completely dead. They had 3% in the polls, they came from an eleciton in which they almost flew out of parliament and several popular figures left them in an ugly slugfest and built their own party, successfully taking up some of the voteshare. It was pretty much over, the only thing that party was known for was infighting.

Then there came a new leadership that (obviously not alone) was able to turn that ship around in the timeframe of a few months, shortly before an unforseen election (because government collapsed). They were able to go from 3% to 7% in the polls (which doesnt sound much, but it is pretty amazing when you are so dead that you do not even count as an actual faction in parliament), they were able go from 50k to 80k members after decades of decline and they were able to become the most successful party on social media. More importantly, suddenly their leftwing viewpoints and talkingpoints (rent, pay, peace) get channeled into the mainstream in an election that was predominantly about migration.

Even tho their electoral power is close to zero (and there is basically no chance they will end up in any government), that already exerts some power, because they invited in podcasts, talkshows and so on for their talking points, which, in turn, means other parties also have to answer to these talking points. And while all other parties drifted rightwing (even the liberal parties), the Left Party grew WHILE saying no to deportations for criminals, there should be higher welfare and push for a 4 day workweek.

So how did they do it without any power, little reach and little funds? Simply put: by hard honest work to gain the trust of their voters.
  • They put people from NGO and activist groups into their leadership positions, but cared that they come from the middle. So their 3 leadership figures are a welfare workers, a bioweapon controller who worked for greenpeace and a union secretary. That already creates goodwill and reach.

  • They cut the pay for their leadership positions. In Germany, a member of parliament usually gets 10k a month, they cut it to 2500 Euro (average german pay) and donate the rest. The party also does not accept any donations from companies. Can you imagine all democrat leaders deciding to cut their pay, reject big donations andloudly demand a stop to insider trading and lobbyism? I wish I could.

  • Before they started their campaign, they already started a huge doordashing operation which was not predominantly targeted to sway voters (it was way ahead of the election), but to talk to actual people to understand what problems they have. They used this to build their campaign around the problems that people told them (which was rent predominantly, not migration). Of course, having so much contact to people helps to gain trust.

  • They built up "The Left Party helps", which means you can go to the places where they have their party offices if you have some problem with the state (for example because your welfare was cut) and they will aid you or refer you to a better place. Most prominently, the Left Party offers everyone to send in their heating invoice if they feel like it seems too high. The Party will then check it for you and if your landlord/provider did a mistake (which happens quite often), they will do the work so you receive your money back.
There were more parts to their success, but I think this very slow, honest work to regain trust and build up the party is the key. America (and Germany too) sees a lot of campaigns or candidates rise and fall in the timefram of months, so going from zero to 50% goodwill and then evaporating. But if a party actually maintains outlets for you as a citizen to receive help and listens to you about your problems on even ground without trying to instantly get to their talking points, that stays. And that is even able to cut through the algorithm that tries to poison your mind (genuine connection overrides even conspiracy theories in many cases). From the experience of party members, I do know that even someone who might be racist or antiwoke has problems with rent and is open to vote for someone who believably wants to tackle that issue.

To me, that is what I support here and what I see is working here. And it is what I think democrats and other groups should be doing right now ("other groups" because the left Party could never have done it without being interwoven with unions, NGO and activists. These groups need to be part of the party, even if they might not be actually in it).

So what AOC did with giving aid against ICE is exactly the right idea. But it cannot stay being just a thing she does. Aid and getting trust of the public has to be a concerted efforts that democrats pursue from now on and for that, they hardest thing they will need to learn is listen. But everyone who is not part of the democratic party can help to create such an interwoven united front by joining a different group that fights for the right thing.
 
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M3J

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I wish USA had its own Jeremy Corbyn. I thought Bernie came close but he did support Israel somewhat, while Jeremy has been pure anti-genocide. The problem with Dems is that if someone left, like Bernie, gets traction, they'll try to sabotage that. Republicans tried too but they gave up after seeing just how popular Trump was, while Dems tried to push Clinton as much as they could.

Plus, if Trump can't run again in 2028 (hopefully they can't make an exception for third term for him), then Dems will have a harder fight because they can't say "well at least we're not Trump!" Maybe they can try to use republicans' support for Trump against them, but that didn't do much when Biden didn't deliver on most of his promises, whether or not it was his fault.


But again, Jasmine Crockett. She's been doing a remarkable job, according to clips I've seen on TikTok. She can be what the Dems need, and she can hopefully pull in the left and the youth that the Dems alienated.
 

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As an answer to both of you, @ninjabot @kkck , I can outline what I think is working over here and what I think would also work in the US.

The Left Party (actual name) in Germany used to be completely dead. They had 3% in the polls, they came from an eleciton in which they almost flew out of parliament and several popular figures left them in an ugly slugfest and built their own party, successfully taking up some of the voteshare. It was pretty much over, the only thing that party was known for was infighting.

Then there came a new leadership that (obviously not alone) was able to turn that ship around in the timeframe of a few months, shortly before an unforseen election (because government collapsed). They were able to go from 3% to 7% in the polls (which doesnt sound much, but it is pretty amazing when you are so dead that you do not even count as an actual faction in parliament), they were able go from 50k to 80k members after decades of decline and they were able to become the most successful party on social media. More importantly, suddenly their leftwing viewpoints and talkingpoints (rent, pay, peace) get channeled into the mainstream in an election that was predominantly about migration.

Even tho their electoral power is close to zero (and there is basically no chance they will end up in any government), that already exerts some power, because they invited in podcasts, talkshows and so on for their talking points, which, in turn, means other parties also have to answer to these talking points. And while all other parties drifted rightwing (even the liberal parties), the Left Party grew WHILE saying no to deportations for criminals, there should be higher welfare and push for a 4 day workweek.

So how did they do it without any power, little reach and little funds? Simply put: by hard honest work to gain the trust of their voters.
  • They put people from NGO and activist groups into their leadership positions, but cared that they come from the middle. So their 3 leadership figures are a welfare workers, a bioweapon controller who worked for greenpeace and a union secretary. That already creates goodwill and reach.

  • They cut the pay for their leadership positions. In Germany, a member of parliament usually gets 10k a month, they cut it to 2500 Euro (average german pay) and donate the rest. The party also does not accept any donations from companies. Can you imagine all democrat leaders deciding to cut their pay, reject big donations andloudly demand a stop to insider trading and lobbyism? I wish I could.

  • Before they started their campaign, they already started a huge doordashing operation which was not predominantly targeted to sway voters (it was way ahead of the election), but to talk to actual people to understand what problems they have. They used this to build their campaign around the problems that people told them (which was rent predominantly, not migration). Of course, having so much contact to people helps to gain trust.

  • They built up "The Left Party helps", which means you can go to the places where they have their party offices if you have some problem with the state (for example because your welfare was cut) and they will aid you or refer you to a better place. Most prominently, the Left Party offers everyone to send in their heating invoice if they feel like it seems too high. The Party will then check it for you and if your landlord/provider did a mistake (which happens quite often), they will do the work so you receive your money back.
There were more parts to their success, but I think this very slow, honest work to regain trust and build up the party is the key. America (and Germany too) sees a lot of campaigns or candidates rise and fall in the timefram of months, so going from zero to 50% goodwill and then evaporating. But if a party actually maintains outlets for you as a citizen to receive help and listens to you about your problems on even ground without trying to instantly get to their talking points, that stays. And that is even able to cut through the algorithm that tries to poison your mind (genuine connection overrides even conspiracy theories in many cases). From the experience of party members, I do know that even someone who might be racist or antiwoke has problems with rent and is open to vote for someone who believably wants to tackle that issue.

To me, that is what I support here and what I see is working here. And it is what I think democrats and other groups should be doing right now ("other groups" because the left Party could never have done it without being interwoven with unions, NGO and activists. These groups need to be part of the party, even if they might not be actually in it).

So what AOC did with giving aid against ICE is exactly the right idea. But it cannot stay being just a thing she does. Aid and getting trust of the public has to be a concerted efforts that democrats pursue from now on and for that, they hardest thing they will need to learn is listen. But everyone who is not part of the democratic party can help to create such an interwoven united front by joining a different group that fights for the right thing.
I am not really sure of how to reply to this because I don't get the impression is actually answers what I have been saying. I am not saying democrats shouldn't do anything. Rather that democrats currently simply do not have the power to stop trump. They don't have the numbers or even the popularity for it. Trump's coming into his presidency with at least a strong mandate to do the stuff he has campaigned on. And sure, democrats can and should be doing all the stuff you mention here and then some... With the next election cycle in sight.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

And things are taking a rather dark turn in Ukraine. Looks like trump is more than willing to hand russia a victory in ukraine.
 

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Trump is not going to fix anything. Trump is leading this country towards an oligarchy without free elections. I find it strange that people chose to talk more about democrat failings than republicans tossing the country into collapse.

As it stands now, the US is an authoritarian state by 2028. Whatever democrats did wrong: The talking point should be how to fight back against that, not what democrats might have done wrong in the past.
This is just how humans work. When the hero fails to save the day they often don't blame the villain, they blame the hero for failing. I am the furthest thing from a Trump fan but what I will say is he is simply doing exactly what he said he would do. If someone knocks on my door and says "Hi, I'm here to murder everyone inside, I only need you to let me in," it's hard for me (the voter) not to blame the idiot who opened the door for them (in this case the Democrats). Among the extraordinarily stupid decisions made by democratic leadership over the past decade or so:

They pushed an 82 year old to be their nominee despite the cries from their base to allow someone younger to take the reigns.
They let that nominee go on the stage and debate Donald Trump despite indications it would be a disaster after months of hiding how far Biden had deteriorated over the years.

When it became clear their nominee wasn't going to cut it against Trump, they unilaterally pushed one of the most unpopular candidates in recent history upon us. This is after Trump won against Hillary in 2016. Hell, I posted after Harris's nomination that they handed the election to Trump:

Kamala is going to get her ass handed to her by Trump. Democrats seem to hyperfocus on the misogyny and racism of the Republican Party while forgetting that many of their own voters carry those traits.

This is going to be Hillary / Trump 2.0.
One of the most influential democrats of the past century, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, refused to retire when she was in her 80s, which led to one of the most conservative, partisan Supreme Courts in history. She was nearly 84 when Trump took office. There is nearly a 10% death rate per year for women of that age in the USA per the SSA.

Democrats deserve the brunt of the blame for where we find ourselves now. Every mistake they made was 100% avoidable and obvious. I'm not even going to go into details about the promotion of identity politics and social justice warriors in an economy on the verge of hyper-inflation, wage stagnation, and mass layoffs. Democrats are the herbivores of US politics. There's a hippo or two in there, but they are mostly cattle wandering around in a den of wolves. There are no talking points on how to fight back. The plan is that we hope we still have a fucking democracy in four years, and vote accordingly. At this point it wouldn't even surprise me if 2028 came around and the DNC nominated Hillary again. Their failings are likely to lead to:
  • A strong entanglement of Church and State with Christianity being the "acceptable" religion
  • The end of the Department of Education
  • Massive data leaks when Elon Musk's team of adolescents manages to leak the information obtained from the SSA and treasury (one of his top guys has literally been fired for leaking secrets before)
  • The Department of Justice becoming a gulag
  • A loss of standing in the world that will leave a gap for BRICS countries to fill
  • The US Dollar falling out of world favor and no longer being the reserve currency (these trade deficits Trump loves to talk about literally exist to ensure the USD is the world's reserve currency)
  • Inflation beyond what we've experienced as tariffs continue to be thrown around and the costs are shifted to the US Consumer
  • Businesses in the USA taking a hit due to reciprocal tariffs and boycotts against goods from the USA
And that's just the parts that aren't going into conspiracy theory territory. Even as heads of departments are fired illegally we see nothing but crickets from Democrats. We aren't seeing Federal Judges hold the line like they should. On the contrary we're seeing FBI agents being let go for taking part in investigations they likely had no choice to be part of, and Federal attorneys in NYC being forced to resign (fired) for refusing to drop charges against a corrupt mayor who sucked the right dick. We have fucking intern-aged kids who post pro-Nazi shit on their social media getting access to databases that have never allowed that kind of outside access before. We have a clown of a billionaire who has god knows what kind of blackmail on Trump that allows him to keep pulling the strings as he posts outright false information online that his followers eat up as gospel (such as claiming there are tens of millions of fraudulent payments going out monthly from the SSA).

Democrats took an oath to uphold the constitution and may as well be using it to wipe their Republican counterparts' asses at this point because they're doing fuck all else.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

As an answer to both of you, @ninjabot @kkck , I can outline what I think is working over here and what I think would also work in the US.

The Left Party (actual name) in Germany used to be completely dead. They had 3% in the polls, they came from an eleciton in which they almost flew out of parliament and several popular figures left them in an ugly slugfest and built their own party, successfully taking up some of the voteshare. It was pretty much over, the only thing that party was known for was infighting.

Then there came a new leadership that (obviously not alone) was able to turn that ship around in the timeframe of a few months, shortly before an unforseen election (because government collapsed). They were able to go from 3% to 7% in the polls (which doesnt sound much, but it is pretty amazing when you are so dead that you do not even count as an actual faction in parliament), they were able go from 50k to 80k members after decades of decline and they were able to become the most successful party on social media. More importantly, suddenly their leftwing viewpoints and talkingpoints (rent, pay, peace) get channeled into the mainstream in an election that was predominantly about migration.

Even tho their electoral power is close to zero (and there is basically no chance they will end up in any government), that already exerts some power, because they invited in podcasts, talkshows and so on for their talking points, which, in turn, means other parties also have to answer to these talking points. And while all other parties drifted rightwing (even the liberal parties), the Left Party grew WHILE saying no to deportations for criminals, there should be higher welfare and push for a 4 day workweek.

So how did they do it without any power, little reach and little funds? Simply put: by hard honest work to gain the trust of their voters.
  • They put people from NGO and activist groups into their leadership positions, but cared that they come from the middle. So their 3 leadership figures are a welfare workers, a bioweapon controller who worked for greenpeace and a union secretary. That already creates goodwill and reach.

  • They cut the pay for their leadership positions. In Germany, a member of parliament usually gets 10k a month, they cut it to 2500 Euro (average german pay) and donate the rest. The party also does not accept any donations from companies. Can you imagine all democrat leaders deciding to cut their pay, reject big donations andloudly demand a stop to insider trading and lobbyism? I wish I could.

  • Before they started their campaign, they already started a huge doordashing operation which was not predominantly targeted to sway voters (it was way ahead of the election), but to talk to actual people to understand what problems they have. They used this to build their campaign around the problems that people told them (which was rent predominantly, not migration). Of course, having so much contact to people helps to gain trust.

  • They built up "The Left Party helps", which means you can go to the places where they have their party offices if you have some problem with the state (for example because your welfare was cut) and they will aid you or refer you to a better place. Most prominently, the Left Party offers everyone to send in their heating invoice if they feel like it seems too high. The Party will then check it for you and if your landlord/provider did a mistake (which happens quite often), they will do the work so you receive your money back.
There were more parts to their success, but I think this very slow, honest work to regain trust and build up the party is the key. America (and Germany too) sees a lot of campaigns or candidates rise and fall in the timefram of months, so going from zero to 50% goodwill and then evaporating. But if a party actually maintains outlets for you as a citizen to receive help and listens to you about your problems on even ground without trying to instantly get to their talking points, that stays. And that is even able to cut through the algorithm that tries to poison your mind (genuine connection overrides even conspiracy theories in many cases). From the experience of party members, I do know that even someone who might be racist or antiwoke has problems with rent and is open to vote for someone who believably wants to tackle that issue.

To me, that is what I support here and what I see is working here. And it is what I think democrats and other groups should be doing right now ("other groups" because the left Party could never have done it without being interwoven with unions, NGO and activists. These groups need to be part of the party, even if they might not be actually in it).

So what AOC did with giving aid against ICE is exactly the right idea. But it cannot stay being just a thing she does. Aid and getting trust of the public has to be a concerted efforts that democrats pursue from now on and for that, they hardest thing they will need to learn is listen. But everyone who is not part of the democratic party can help to create such an interwoven united front by joining a different group that fights for the right thing.
I'm not who you directed this at, but I would start by saying that a lot of this won't work in the USA. For one, most people in the USA don't enter into politics for the salary, they enter for the lobbyist kickbacks. Eradicating that requires the entire government (both Democrats and Republicans) to overhaul one of their favorite parts of government (the kickbacks).

The portion of the USA that cares about what's going on with ICE is a bubble that mostly cannot vote. The vast majority of citizens will look at it and some will think "That's horrible," some will think "Well it's about time we kicked out these illegals," and most will simply be apathetic since it doesn't affect them personally.

Germany also has had a hostile government takeover in their memorable history. There are people alive who experienced Nazism first hand. Most of the USA has not experienced such kind of hardships.

I am not trying to patronize you, but the ship you're talking about here has long since sailed. This isn't simply "my benefits got cut!" We're pushing into French Revolution territory over here.
 

kkck

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To add to the sheer shitshow that is the democratic party, donors are actually leaving it. I am not sure of the degree yet but given how US politics currently work donors leaving is basically a worse case scenario. Of course, you could make a case that this is a chance for them to wean off corrupt money but even if this incredibly optimistic scenario comes to fruition.. it's going to be a years long process. The reality is that US voters have largely rewarded trump's shenanigans while at the same time severely punished democrats. It only makes sense that democrats would be silent right now.
 

catagon87

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To add to the sheer shitshow that is the democratic party, donors are actually leaving it. I am not sure of the degree yet but given how US politics currently work donors leaving is basically a worse case scenario. Of course, you could make a case that this is a chance for them to wean off corrupt money but even if this incredibly optimistic scenario comes to fruition.. it's going to be a years long process. The reality is that US voters have largely rewarded trump's shenanigans while at the same time severely punished democrats. It only makes sense that democrats would be silent right now.
Well, the $1B they invested into Kamala Harris as a candidate certainly didn't pan out, and now they have to worry about retribution from Trump, and have Elon reviewing government contracts.

It's not just a loss of investment. It's like if I invested $1000 in Blockbuster 2002, and then the CEO kidnapped my family and burned my house down.
 

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Well, the $1B they invested into Kamala Harris as a candidate certainly didn't pan out, and now they have to worry about retribution from Trump, and have Elon reviewing government contracts.

It's not just a loss of investment. It's like if I invested $1000 in Blockbuster 2002, and then the CEO kidnapped my family and burned my house down.
What a weird world we live end, democrats ended up defunded.
 

M3J

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Donors leaving Dems could be a good thing
 
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