Shounen Bleach by Tite Kubo

[kkck]

Isn't the name related to the school Captain-Commander established? Founder of the "Genryuu", Genryuusai. Upon stealing his Bankai, Bach perhaps referred to how the Captain-Commander of old days was now history.
Interesting point, regardless.

I never really got what "genryusaii" means. I know it is a nickname but my lack of understanding of a number of things japanese does not allow me to put it in context. Is there a genryu school? How did I miss that?

Anyways, going to wikipedia I found this on willows (which genryusai seems to reference)

In Japanese tradition, the willow is associated with ghosts. It is popularly supposed that a ghost will appear where a willow grows.

I guess he was saying yamamoto was already dead and if he summoned the dead it would be dead people against dead people? It seems like there should be more to it.

 

[Pat]

I never really got what "genryusaii" means. I know it is a nickname but my lack of understanding of a number of things japanese does not allow me to put it in context. Is there a genryu school? How did I miss that?

It was mentioned in Chapter 504.

Founder of the Genryuu Style / Head Instructor of the Genji School / Yamamoto Shigekuni

Yamamoto: (After my wound healed, the scar that remained resembled a cross... // And before I knew it, the people had taken to calling me "Juujisai" (十字斎). // But Choujirou alone... // ...saying "It is not right to change your name based upon a wound inflicted by the likes of myself"... // ...stubbornly continued to call me "Eijisai". // And so, for Choujirou's sake, I gave myself... // ...the new name of "Genryuusai".)

 

[kkck]

It was mentioned in Chapter 504.

Well, I know the origin of the nickname, what I don't know is what it means. Japanese names and nicknames usually translate into actual words right? Like uchiha means "fan" or ichigo is used to make puns on "15" or actually means strawberry. Or kurosaki appears to translate into "black saki" (no clue on what saki means). That is the bit I don't get about "genryusai". All google has given me is something about willows....

Ahh, I had forgotten about the genryu school.

 

[Pat]

Well, I know the origin of the nickname, what I don't know is what it means. Japanese names and nicknames usually translate into actual words right? Like uchiha means "fan" or ichigo is used to make puns on "15" or actually means strawberry. Or kurosaki appears to translate into "black saki" (no clue on what saki means). That is the bit I don't get about "genryusai". All google has given me is something about willows....

That's what I found,

Cpt. Yamamoto Genryuusai Shigekuni
山本　元柳斎　重國
Yamamoto: "mountain"; "present" (time) or "talent"
Genryuusai: "origin"; "willow"; "purification"
Shigekuni: "heavy pile"; "country"

It doesn't make much sense though.

 

[kkck]

That's what I found,



It doesn't make much sense though.

Not really lol. Even if we go back to the chapter it is weird that juhabach did seemingly taunt him with the changing of his names (he called him one genryusai yamamoto and then shigekuni yamamoto). Maybe he was calling him a ghost? Ahh, can't make sense of this...

 

[Pat]

it suggests there is some meaning behind juhabach calling yamamoto genryusai after stealing his bankai even though he had called him up to that point yamamoto shigekuni. I don't know what genryusai means so I can't really mkae sense of that. I guess it could have something to do with their history though.

What if Yhwach was Yamamoto's chief assistant during those years? Perhaps this was why Yamamoto took upon himself to stop Yhwach when he rebelled against the SS and Soul King later. I mean if Yhwach was referring to these days, something must have happened between these two at that time which might have resulted in Yhwach going his own way and establishing a quincy army.

 

[Impossibility]

What if Yhwach was Yamamoto's chief assistant during those years? Perhaps this was why Yamamoto took upon himself to stop Yhwach when he rebelled against the SS and Soul King later. I mean if Yhwach was referring to these days, something must have happened between these two at that time which might have resulted in Yhwach going his own way and establishing a quincy army.

Wasn't Sasakibe Yamamoto's lieutenant since about the dawn of time, at least approximately a thousand years before Yhwach's defeat? Yhwach speaks of the original Gotei 13 as though it was something he was familiar with, not necessarily a part of.

 

[Pat]

Wasn't Sasakibe Yamamoto's lieutenant since about the dawn of time, at least approximately a thousand years before Yhwach's defeat? Yhwach speaks of the original Gotei 13 as though it was something he was familiar with, not necessarily a part of.

Yamamoto was already the head instructor of the Genji school when Sasakibe was an inexperienced boy, I was referring to these days. I guess Sasakibe never left Yamamoto's side and became his lieutenant after Gotei 13 was established.

 

[Impossibility]

Yamamoto was already the head instructor of the Genji school when Sasakibe was an inexperienced boy, I was referring to these days. I guess Sasakibe never left Yamamoto's side and became his lieutenant after Gotei 13 was established.

I don't get the impression that Yamamoto had an assistant prior to Sasakibe from what I remember of their interactions. He is the guy that's responsible for Yamamoto going by Genryusai. I just can't imagine that we'd go through that backstory only to have it replayed with Yhwach. How did Shinigami even train before the Genji School? When Sasakibe showed up to Yamamoto's he was already capable of utilising bankai, how did that happen? How did they even get zan's back then?

 

[Hakuteiken]

I don't get the impression that Yamamoto had an assistant prior to Sasakibe from what I remember of their interactions. He is the guy that's responsible for Yamamoto going by Genryusai. I just can't imagine that we'd go through that backstory only to have it replayed with Yhwach. How did Shinigami even train before the Genji School? When Sasakibe showed up to Yamamoto's he was already capable of utilising bankai, how did that happen? How did they even get zan's back then?

Well, my guess would be to take a blade, link your soul to it, and then invoke a connection with the spirit that resonated once you linked to it. All would require a metaphysical training, perhaps reminiscing Ichigo's Dangai training.

 

[Impossibility]

Well, my guess would be to take a blade, link your soul to it, and then invoke a connection with the spirit that resonated once you linked to it. All would require a metaphysical training, perhaps reminiscing Ichigo's Dangai training.

That part I get. What I don't get is the starting point; Zan's are the result of Asauchi, which are forged solely by Nimaiya. Did Nimaiya just arbitrarily hand out Asauchis to anyone that showed up at his door prior to the formation of the Academy? I'm only thinking about this because Sasakibe didn't seem to emerge from the Academy, where we know Shinigami now receive their Asauchis. He was just some guy who showed up and was apparently capable of bankai before even Shunsui and Ukitake, the Academy's first students.

 

[Hakuteiken]

That part I get. What I don't get is the starting point; Zan's are the result of Asauchi, which are forged solely by Nimaiya. Did Nimaiya just arbitrarily hand out Asauchis to anyone that showed up at his door prior to the formation of the Academy? I'm only thinking about this because Sasakibe didn't seem to emerge from the Academy, where we know Shinigami now receive their Asauchis. He was just some guy who showed up and was apparently capable of bankai before even Shunsui and Ukitake, the Academy's first students.

I think Nimaiya was not needed as far as Asauchi goes. Or at least, if his contribution was limited to just making the whole process convenient rather than creating the entire process itself, that would explain the whole picture.

 

[Fox666]

That part I get. What I don't get is the starting point; Zan's are the result of Asauchi, which are forged solely by Nimaiya. Did Nimaiya just arbitrarily hand out Asauchis to anyone that showed up at his door prior to the formation of the Academy? I'm only thinking about this because Sasakibe didn't seem to emerge from the Academy, where we know Shinigami now receive their Asauchis. He was just some guy who showed up and was apparently capable of bankai before even Shunsui and Ukitake, the Academy's first students.

I think it's safe to assume Asauchi became like Assault Rifles in a war. The likes of Kenpachi or Sasakibe just grabbed one despite not being part of the army.

I think Nimaiya was not needed as far as Asauchi goes. Or at least, if his contribution was limited to just making the whole process convenient rather than creating the entire process itself, that would explain the whole picture.

It was indeed stated that Nimaiya invented the Zanpakuto. But it raises the question of what Shinigami used before? I suppose there may have been swords or other weapons, but Asauchi was more effective.

 

[Hakuteiken]

It was indeed stated that Nimaiya invented the Zanpakuto. But it raises the question of what Shinigami used before? I suppose there may have been swords or other weapons, but Asauchi was more effective.

Yeah, what I mean is they probably extracted a similar power out of their weapons in a much less effective way before Nimaiya made his contribution. That also most likely lowered the bar for acquiring a Zanpakuto, when you previously had to do God-knows-what for an unknown and presumably long period of time to access similar powers.
Kind of like Urahara's Bankai training, if I may say so. You can get Bankai by training for years or you can get it in a matter of days by his technique, which also makes me question why he wasn't considered as a Royal Guard candidate. Probably because he was a fugitive by the time he invented his training method.

 

[kkck]

Urahara is too young to be considered IMO. He was made into a captain just as kirio was promoted after all, he probably has not ha the time to be considered for the royal guards. He has not really invented anything yet. Well, he has, but clearly everything he has made are merely applications of the stuff made by the royals already. The healing springs, the thing to force bankai, the gigais, dimensional travel, it all seems to relate to the royals in some way. To boot he does not seem to have the sheer power the royals have up to this point, his power seems to be fairly standard for a captain.

 

[Fox666]

Ichigo was flabbergasted by Urahara powers when he fought Aizen, so I think he is well above the average captain.

 

[HereNThere]

I'm of the opinion that Urahara was probably being considered for a position in the Royal Guard. The mere fact that he studied and replicated Tenjiro's healing spring seems to hint at the fact that he has been in the Royal Realm before. Also, I think the Royal Guard's were only chosen for their inventions and contributions to S.S. rather than their strength. The strength would probably come later.

As for what the Shinigami used before Asauchi were introduced, I'm beginning to think that Asauchi were created to make things easier for everyone. It's accepted that one uses an Asauchi to manifest their spirit, but is it really needed? Maybe a powerful select few could have used anything as long as they focused their spirit into it like you'd do with a normal Zanpakuto or they could just manifest their abilities completely without the aid of anything, seeing as how it's their own spirit. Nimaiya's invention made it so that even those with weaker abilities can be able to do it as well along with being an easier thing to handle. It seems to be more about increasing the quantity.

As for why Ywach referred to Yamamto as Genryusai as opposed to Shingekuni, I believe he was mocking him. When he took that name, that's probably when he began to feel like he had something to protect, all his students and his colleagues. He was no longer the vicious Division leader, he was a teacher and a leader during peacetime. Ywach probably saw that name as the birth of Yamamoto's weakness.

 

[NoOneInParticular]

As for why Ywach referred to Yamamto as Genryusai as opposed to Shingekuni, I believe he was mocking him. When he took that name, that's probably when he began to feel like he had something to protect, all his students and his colleagues. He was no longer the vicious Division leader, he was a teacher and a leader during peacetime. Ywach probably saw that name as the birth of Yamamoto's weakness.

Sounds about right. I also wondered if maybe Yhwach gave Yama the first scar, although given what Genryusai apparently means that doesn't make much sense. He could also have just been being a prick and taunting Yamamoto about Sasakibe since "Genryusai" was come up with for his sake. Whatever the hell that means.

 

[Impossibility]

As for why Ywach referred to Yamamto as Genryusai as opposed to Shingekuni, I believe he was mocking him. When he took that name, that's probably when he began to feel like he had something to protect, all his students and his colleagues. He was no longer the vicious Division leader, he was a teacher and a leader during peacetime. Ywach probably saw that name as the birth of Yamamoto's weakness.

Didn't he take that name shortly after Sasakibe scarred him? That was about a thousand years before he formed the original band of monsters. I doubt that name has any connection to what Yhwach considers to be Yamamoto's weakness. I can't think of any link that Yhwach would have to that name; the manga went out of the way to explain the basis for it already and it predates Yhwach's defeat or even the formation of the Gotei 13. I think we might just be looking into it too much.

 

[HereNThere]

Didn't he take that name shortly after Sasakibe scarred him? That was about a thousand years before he formed the original band of monsters. I doubt that name has any connection to what Yhwach considers to be Yamamoto's weakness. I can't think of any link that Yhwach would have to that name; the manga went out of the way to explain the basis for it already and it predates Yhwach's defeat or even the formation of the Gotei 13. I think we might just be looking into it too much.

Yeah, you're right. I thought that Ywach was "killed" by Yama before he founded the school, but he did it after.

I would stand by my mocking theory as if Ywach did use Yama's bankai to bring back some subordinates, it's quite likely that he would have brought back his most Sakisabe, whom inspired Yama to call himself Genryusai.

@kkck

The translation of The Dagger I'm looking at seems to be speculation on the writer/editor of the Dagger's behalf, rather than hinting.

http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?1128-Bleach-The-Dagger/page79&p=103969#post103969

Keyword 3 Panel: :"Genryusai"
The name " Genryusai" that was uttered but once! Bach always refers to Yamamoto Genryusai as "Shigekuni". But, when striking the final blow, he said not "Shigekuni", but "Genryusai". Is there a meaning behind the fact that Bach called him "Genryusai" that one time only?