Discussion Conqueror's Haki Breakdown

[King Moe]

Don't worry, i'm not brushing it off. It's not like i'm saying i know what will happen lol a lot of things will happen that i'm completely not prepared for. Garp or Usopp having Conqueror, as unlikely as it may seem to me, might very well happen.

Regarding Garp, he might have it, but i'm not sold on that. I don't see why he would actually. It seems contradictory to me, that a marine would have Conqueror's Haki. But as you say, i might be proven wrong.
If the manga never showed any surprising factor it would be kinda boring, so i would even enjoy seeing Garp, or any maine for that matter, have Conqueror. For now, it just feels weird to me.

Regarding Sanji, i don't know. Finding All Blue is a huge goal but so is finding all poneglyphs (while going against the WG) or mapping the whole world. Finding All Blue isn't any more fight-oriented than these other two objectives.
Sanji has shown leadership, that is true. Though i would consider him more of a strategist than a leader. The thing is, leadership qualities alone isn't enough for Conqueror's Haki, otherwise any leader would have it. Elizabello, Cobra, even Vivi etc. In terms of leadership in the Strawhat Pirates, Nami could be considered more of a leader than Sanji. But fair enough, this point i can agree with.
Same thing with Royal Blood... Being from a royal family doesn't necessarily mean you'll have Conqueror's Haki. Actually, aside from Oden Hancock and Doflamingo, no other Conqueror user have royal blood. And a huge majority of characters from royal families don't have Conqueror.
Really, despite the fact that i can agree with you on certain things, imo these things are just not enough to think Sanji would have Conqueror, especially if we consider his personality. The only thing that would make me say "yes, he will get it for sure" is his rivalry with Zoro. If Zoro has it, there's a good chance Sanji will too. So in the end, i can agree with you, despite disagreeing on the reasons why Sanji could be fit t have it.

Regarding Usopp... I just can't lol
Again don't get me wrong, i'm not saying this will never happen. As you're saying, the manga can (and will) surprise me on a lot of things, and that can be the case with Usoppp having Conqueror's Haki.
But yeah, i just don't see it.
His bloodline imo has nothing to do with it. You made a point with Sanji being from a royal family, that's not even the case with Usopp. Yasopp is a very skilled sniper, that is all, how is that supposed to make me thing Usopp will get Conqueror due to bloodline? If Yasopp only had Conqueror i could possibly get it. But we don't even know if Yasopp has it, he's just a skilled sniper.
His dream i disagree with it too. His dream, compared to Nami's or Robin's, is extremely vague. He himself doesn't even know what he dreams about. He started to admire the Giants from when he met Dorry and Broggy (or whatever their names were LOL), so now he wants to see Elbaf and he looks up to giants. But i don't see his dream being about being a "warrior" as the fighting aspect of it. Only the pride aspect. He will never (imo) be a fighter. That's exactly why he is a sniper, he's not fit for CQC or 1v1 situations.
It was a surprise that he got Observation haki, though not as surprising all things considered. He has never showed an Observation Haki similar to Luffy's Sanji's or Luffy's, being able to predict and react to his opponents. That would be more battle oriented, which Usopp isn't fit for. His CoO allowed him to sense a person aura frm a huge distance, which is perfect for a sniper.
Plus, having CoO and having CoC are two different things. Rayleigh said that CoA and CoO could be learned and trained by anyone; CoC on the otehr hand cannot be attained through training. Usopp might have CoO and might become very prominent with it, but i don't see him having CoC just because of it. Just like i doubt he will ever get CoA, since (as i said already) he isn't a fight-oriented character, at least not in close quarters. He's a sniper, CoO fits him, not CoA and even less CoC.
Really, i see zero reason as to why Usopp would get Conqueror. Because he looks up to giants? How is that enough.

Though again, i'm willing to be surprised by what Oda has for us.
Merry Christmas by the way. =)

Thanks, I respect your points as well and why you doubt them as it is reasonable. Though those traits are more important than you think if you look at the canon on who have it now. So not that farfetch as you may think about it.

How being a Marine contradicts it? Don't think it does. If your saying that due to the fact Marines are 'potray' as defenders and 'Justice' so having a Conqueror wouldn't make sense, I don't think that exclude it out especially WG isn't as 'honest' as it looks and Garp has shown hints and traits to have it as I mention above. I do have idea for another candidate who possibly could have it, but will post that in Third Batch later on.

As for Sanji, Pretty sure All Blue is more harder to find as Poneglyphys have known locations for Robin to find them and Nami can map out what she sees. They aren't really same lvl of Dreams when All Blue have never been found much and no one ever tame it like Sanji said. His relates to more 'conqueror' if he want to venture and learn about the sea. Also while he does strategies, it doesn't cloud away from his leadership as it been shown of many occasions on when he take leads on things, not just plan things out and someone else lead. True there been other leaders in OP, but Sanji's leadership has more special to it to than theirs as not only do he plan, lead, but also fight for himself and among his allies and those you mention don't have all those traits together.

Well doesn't matter whether Royal Blood or famous lineage, Sanji still has that and that counts for majority of them not just Royal ones as Luffy's family, Ace's family, Katakuri's family (Big Mom herself as a user), etc.. He has that famous family lineage like majority of them have, so that insert it more of him having it. These are a lot of traits to support that as well his rivalry of Zoro and already talk about his personality as he can be intimidating to others, it's just he looks underestimated factor for being a cook similar to how people don't see Luffy much due to his appearance. Plus the comparison of Strawhats Pirates to Roger Pirates and if we take them as fact, then that means 3 people so far will have it besides Luffy, and right now Sanji and Zoro are top choices to have it while 3rd one at best probably be Usopp who the next reasonable choice on having it.

I respect how you feel about Usopp, trust me I am not 100% on it either, but he is the best option of why and how he would get it. He does have the traits for it so far. Bloodline definitely plays a factor as majority of the users have a notorious bloodline from a relative or parent and Usopp has his father, Yasopp who is the best sniper of the RedHair Pirates and probably the world. Pretty sure he has Haki, but as for Haoshoku Haki/Conqueror's Haki, that is remain to be seen, but wouldn't surprise me if Shanks have few people with it and since he is the top people of his crew and canonically his first mate (In flashback in Strong World movie and chapter, Shanks came to him as the start of his own crew).

While his dream is vague, but it has more battle-related out of Nami and Robin. They aren't in it for fighting or prove their worth in the world, Usopp is trying to do that. Also I don't think it's a bad thing as that could be where the unpredictability comes from on how he could get stronger and it does require fighting in it as you can't be just a warrior by pride alone and Usopp is showing to be more braver and taking on enemies lately even 1 vs 1 or handicap. Plus fighter doesn't mean he fights bare-hands, he fights in his own way which is sniping and it will count for it. Actually is surprising he has Kenbunshoku Haki/Observation Haki as again no one would have agree on Usopp having it before and even that. Plus he just got the power, so he needs to train it, but I doubt it be just for looking at long distances as he be able to predict attacks too in due time and if he focus enough.

I am aware that COC and COO are different types, of course, but can still be unlock when on intense stress situation as shown with as shown when Doflamingo in his past and Luffy unlocking them at the time. Knowing Usopp, it make sense how it could be unlock from him as he stress at times and why he need COA? He has his weapons that can various in use and can even harm Logias with the right element. Don't think he learn that, but COC is more probable and since being a sniper mean you don't fight? Fight is a fight and isn't necessarily referred to fighting physical with someone as you can fight with blades, guns, and so on. That doesn't demeaned him being a fighter nor take it away from him.

I don't think looking up at giants was meaning to his dream as it's more deep than that as he want to be strong himself and see the giants as inspiration for his dream probably. Again I respect your opinion and I agree on the points you make, but it's not that doubtful or far off if you think about the characters on it.

Yep, we don't know what Oda will do, so just saying be prepared if you think it might not go that direction. Merry Christmas as well !

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2018 ---

I hope Oda honors the one in a million rarity of CoC but then again, there is a statement from Chinjao saying its not that rare in NW, however, it might seem not that rare because all those with conquerors haki gather in that sea.
If every second top dog in the New World would have it then its nothing special.
Not sure why Oda gave it to Kidd, i totally understand why Katakuri had it but Kidd makes no sense to me. I understand the rivalry between them but its also doable without CoC, Kidd was strong willed anyway.

From those characters that we havent seen using it I can totally see Imu having it, because i think he/she may be the strongest CoC user and thats how he/she rules the Gorosei(parallel to Doflamingo).
The most wanter man in the world would kinda be a disappointment if he wouldnt have it. I expect great things from Dragon.
I could see Garp having it because Luffy and Dragon could also have it but then again, no Marine has it so it may turn out otherwise but Garp is also the only black sheep among Marines, a D working for WG...
I dont think Zoro should have it either, its not necessary for him but he has shown so many scenes hinting towards it. Hopefully, it turns out to be something different, similar to CoC, unique to Zoro, a manifestation of his demonic spirit. So far he is the only one whose spirit has manifested.

All others, I dont see having CoC, simply makes no sense. Sanji has something similar, his flaming aura which we still dont know if its a gag or something more to be explored in future.
WIth the brutal raw strength that Kaido has I dont know if he needs CoC at all...
Blackbeard with multiple DF's needs no CoC either, no reason to stuff everything into 1 character...

He is, this doesn't change anything. Especially look at all canon characters in OP and it's still a few people who have it. Nothing is changing from it and it make sense why more of the Haki are in New World as it's the sea to be in charge and heading to the One Piece, so we should expect stronger enemies and appearances from that. It wouldn't surprise me if Whitebeard's, Kaido's, Shanks', and Blackbeard's (including himself) have people with the Haki since this is big leagues now after all.

Well we haven't seen Kidd's backstory or his action, to really judge why he doesn't deserve it. He has shown potential on being above and top of the Worst Generation with Luffy and Law, so it's not out there for him to not have it. Pretty sure we get more of Kidd's past and it will justify why he has it more.

As for your other comments on other characters, I already said my piece on why they should have it and it doesn't take anything away from them. Kinda surprise you now don't want Zoro to have it as you mention him wanting it above. Though again, it won't hurt rarity of it as again not many still have it. So far we have 12 canons confirmed with Haoshoku Haki/Conqueror's Haki if you look at the wikia and 3 are already dead, so decrease it to now 9 canons alive with the power. So I think stretching to say the rarity is going away when you look at all the canon characters and people population in OP Universe, this is hardly making it common at all even at this point so far.

 

[nik87]

Kinda surprise you now don't want Zoro to have it as you mention him wanting it above.

I said i can see him having it and now i explained why - because there are too many hints for it, however it serves no purpose and he stays the same character whether he has it or not.

I already said my piece on why they should have it and it doesn't take anything away from them.

It's not an argument against it but because you see it otherwise its not really an argument for it.

If Oda wants he can make all Strawhats have CoC and be an exceptional, unparalleled crew. However, it serves no purpose and they will still be unparalleled crew at the end.

Who are the contenders for the PK titles, how many top ppl are there? That's at best how many conquerors we should have but we already have more(probably).

 

[King Moe]

I said i can see him having it and now i explained why - because there are too many hints for it, however it serves no purpose and he stays the same character whether he has it or not.


It's not an argument against it but because you see it otherwise its not really an argument for it.

If Oda wants he can make all Strawhats have CoC and be an exceptional, unparalleled crew. However, it serves no purpose and they will still be unparalleled crew at the end.

Who are the contenders for the PK titles, how many top ppl are there? That's at best how many conquerors we should have but we already have more(probably).

I see what you mean, but not every user has to be looking to conqueror something to have it and have it based on the traits mention and being naturally dominate person and leader.

Wasn't saying it like a argument either. Just explaining my side too. Not all Strawhats will have it, but if its any parellel to Roger Pirates, few people will have it.

Don't think its that many or be too much even at the end of the series. Oda is keeping a minimal amount and make sense with each person having it and not for the sake of adding it.

 

[afromarco005]

My prediction

1. zoro he is luffys reighleigh awakens against Orochi
2. Kidd cause why the heck not
3. Usopp eos will be the bravest warrior of the sea, able to beat 5000 men for real
4. Momonosuke
5. BlackBeard
6. Orochi
7. Coby the new Garp
8. Helmeppo zoros marine equivalent

 

[nik87]

Kidd cause why the heck not

Kidd already has CoC.

Orochi

It would be interesting if it turns out that Orochi has CoC and Kaido doesnt. Would make sense and explain why Kaido works with him.

 

[King Moe]

Kidd already has CoC.

It would be interesting if it turns out that Orochi has CoC and Kaido doesnt. Would make sense and explain why Kaido works with him.

Nah, wouldn't make sense as he is a Yonko. Plus did it state he has it too especially figuring it out when Luffy use it. I doubt Orochi will have it though.

 

[nik87]

Nah, wouldn't make sense as he is a Yonko. Plus did it state he has it too especially figuring it out when Luffy use it. I doubt Orochi will have it though.

At this point, totally makes sense to me. Kaido is respecting Orochi instead of taking it all for himself and his comment regarding CoC to me seems like its something he doesnt have, it was suspicious first I read it. I could be wrong but we will see, it wasnt stated if Kaido has it yet.

 

[King Moe]

My prediction

1. zoro he is luffys reighleigh awakens against Orochi
2. Kidd cause why the heck not
3. Usopp eos will be the bravest warrior of the sea, able to beat 5000 men for real
4. Momonosuke
5. BlackBeard
6. Orochi
7. Coby the new Garp
8. Helmeppo zoros marine equivalent

Nice list, but some of these are farfetch and Kidd has been canon confirmed to have it already.

Momosuke is too young to have it or at least unlock it at his age, so don't see it happening.

Orochi won't have it as doesn't feel the vibe from him as COC and traits as the others on my list like Sanji, Dragon, etc..

Coby is actually one I think of having it actually. I could see that as he is showing progress to get strong and have few traits for it so possible.

Helmeppo is quite farfetch of having it though. He can have other Hakis (Which he probably does right now), but not enough qualities for him to be candidate.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 25, 2018 ---

At this point, totally makes sense to me. Kaido is respecting Orochi instead of taking it all for himself and his comment regarding CoC to me seems like its something he doesnt have, it was suspicious first I read it. I could be wrong but we will see, it wasnt stated if Kaido has it yet.

Orochi works for Kaido, its not a even relationship. Kaido isn't one to take orders man XD.

Pretty sure Oda will have Kaido have it than Orochi. To hype him up for a long time and not have it while Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Shanks confirmed to have it would take hype away from him and more fear as a Yonko.

I doubt Oda will do that.

 

[nik87]

To hype him up and nit have it while Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Shanks confirmed to have it would take hype away from him and more fear as a Yonko.

It takes nothing away from him because it is not yet shown that he has it so he cant lose something he doesnt have and who needs CoC when he has monstrous strength like Kaido... He still might have it ofc, its a possibility.

Kaido isn't one to take orders man XD.

Kaido is not from Wano apparently and he took the country over together with Orochi, who was the mastermind behind it, after Roger's death and made Wano his headquarters. There is another hint, Orochi is the one who sits in capital while Kaido is on some nearby island.
Orochi is from Wano and Shogun is basically a leader of the country. Kaido obeys Orochi's rules of the isolationist country and we can see it when he gives instructions for the news of his clash with Luffy, he respects the rules and removes information that Luffy is a pirate.

We still have to see the relationship between Kaido and Orochi before we can make serious claims.

 

[King Moe]

It takes nothing away from him because it is not yet shown that he has it so he cant lose something he doesnt have and who needs CoC when he has monstrous strength like Kaido... He still might have it ofc, its a possibility.


Kaido is not from Wano apparently and he took the country over together with Orochi, who was the mastermind behind it, after Roger's death and made Wano his headquarters. There is another hint, Orochi is the one who sits in capital while Kaido is on some nearby island.
Orochi is from Wano and Shogun is basically a leader of the country. Kaido obeys Orochi's rules of the isolationist country and we can see it when he gives instructions for the news of his clash with Luffy, he respects the rules and removes information that Luffy is a pirate.

We still have to see the relationship between Kaido and Orochi before we can make serious claims.

He is going to have. Please lets not even try to debate he won't. If you know Oda for a long time he will have it so don't to force something that is very unlikely he would do and not have the Haki.

Yes, but that doesn't mean Kaido serves him or they are equals with each other. Kaido can destroy the lands if he wanted too. I don't see Orochi at same lvl as him. Maybe Calamity, but not at that point.

Kaido does what he wants aand what he does or lives doesn't mean Orochi have that grip. Honestly with his drunk behavior its best he is out of the lands a bit so he doesn't wreck havoc everyday. These points are stretching too much, Nik.

 

[nik87]

very unlikely

Yeah but if it turns out like i said, remember how far ahead i connected the dots.
I think its too soon to claim anything, the situation in Wano is still a mystery.

Doffy's executives could have destroyed Doffy when they first met him, they chose to follow him because of CoC. Same could happen between Kaido and Orochi but instead of following, they are partners.

 

[King Moe]

Yeah but if it turns out like i said, remember how far ahead i connected the dots.
I think its too soon to claim anything, the situation in Wano is still a mystery.

Doffy's executives could have destroyed Doffy when they first met him, they chose to follow him because of CoC. Same could happen between Kaido and Orochi but instead of following, they are partners.

Nah, no sense in it all when he wants be Pirate King.

That situation isn't like Kaido at all. Your stretching too much XD.

 

[nik87]

Nah, no sense in it all when he wants be Pirate King.

There are so many without CoC wanting to be PK, thats not a counter-argument.

Your stretching too much XD.

I am not claiming it as a fact, it makes sense to me at this point. It could be proven otherwise in next chapter. With Oda you have to stretch or you cant keep up.

 

[King Moe]

There are so many without CoC wanting to be PK, thats not a counter-argument.


I am not claiming it as a fact, it makes sense to me at this point. It could be proven otherwise in next chapter. With Oda you have to stretch or you cant keep up.

It is when he is a Yonko and been fear even dangerous to fight that the other Yonkos are aware of.

Not really. I understand their relationship of business, but to say Kaido is working for someone is a VERY BIG stretch to say. He wouldn't be a Yonko if he work for someone under him.

 

[nik87]

It is when he is a Yonko and been fear even dangerous to fight that the other Yonkos are aware of.

Not really. I understand their relationship of business, but to say Kaido is working for someone is a VERY BIG stretch to say. He wouldn't be a Yonko if he work for someone under him.

Where did i say he works for Orochi? I said they are partners with mutual benefit.
I know it doesnt make sense to you but to me it does.

 

[King Moe]

Where did i say he works for Orochi? I said they are partners with mutual benefit.
I know it doesnt make sense to you but to me it does.

In your post, you said he works for Orochi. You meant it like he works under him when hardly at all. If that's, then maybe, but Kaido is still in charge overall of everything.

 

[nik87]

In your post, you said he works for Orochi. You meant it like he works under him when hardly at all. If that's, then maybe, but Kaido is still in charge overall of everything.

I didnt say that nor did i mean that, go check it out.
We still have to see their relationship to be sure who is on top in that partnership. Keep an open mind for different possibilities.

 

[King Moe]

I didnt say that nor did i mean that, go check it out.
We still have to see their relationship to be sure who is on top in that partnership. Keep an open mind for different possibilities.

Still Kaido. He needed him to help invading Oden's years ago, so without Kaido, he would be nothing. Still points to him as main guy.

 

[nik87]

He needed him to help invading Oden's years ago, so without Kaido, he would be nothing.

We know why Orochi needed Kaido. Why does Kaido need Orochi? Why respect Orochi's rules if he is an irrelevant character? It's obvious that Kaido goes along with Orochi's rules for the country. We have seen Kyoshiro, an underling of Orochi's, give orders that Kaido's calamity sends assassins to deal with Sanji.
Not only is Kaido not present in the capital but also his forces are nowhere to be seen in the capital.

It's obvious that it isnt as one-sided rulership as you think.

 

[King Moe]

We know why Orochi needed Kaido. Why does Kaido need Orochi? Why respect Orochi's rules if he is an irrelevant character? It's obvious that Kaido goes along with Orochi's rules for the country. We have seen Kyoshiro, an underling of Orochi's, give orders that Kaido's calamity sends assassins to deal with Sanji.
Not only is Kaido not present in the capital but also his forces are nowhere to be seen in the capital.

It's obvious that it isnt as one-sided rulership as you think.

It is one-sided. Orochi's is not same lol as him as you insert. Partnership is one thing, but he still be one in charge. The reason he is to the rules as he doesn't want to destroy the place he lives on and get resources. Plus he shown to be more reasonable than he looks. He even didn't try to kill Luffy despite all he did to his plans, rather use him as his own men.

Kaido is reasonable so he isn't always out to destroy and rather leave things be so make more sense there. So as things are friendly for Orochi side, they don't mind, but not on same lvl.