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Discussion Criticism Thread

Discussion in 'Nanatsu no Taizai' started by eefrit, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. eefrit

    eefrit He who controls the pants...

    有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity

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    We all have our favorite characters, but what about those we don't like? This thread is to criticize characters whom we aren't as attached to, be it because of looks, characterization, role, or whatever.

    Keep it civil and, as always, have fun.
     
  2. Incognitop

    Incognitop Registered User

    上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member

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    One thing that bothered me when I first started reading Taizai was how much respect Meliodas got. I mean with 7 people who are all extremely strong, you would expect constant head-butts and what not. I mean unless Meliodas was way way waaaaaaaaaaaay out of their league. Don't get me wrong, Meliodas is extremely strong, but he's not the God of the Universe while the other members are ants or anything. They are more or less in the same range.

    So what does that leave? Are they all close friends? Not really. King seems to be the most popular character because he has had his backstory flushed out more than anyone. He also has a close relationship to two other members. Now I will concede that there might be more stuff upcoming (like Merlin-Meliodas backstory/Merlin-Gowther backstory), but we have seen the members not interact too much. This makes some of the motivations behind the characters vague.

    Now Nakaba can't make 50 page chapters showing the characters interact in-depth, but I would like to see him explore it more in the future.

    Some stuff I liked:

    Ban disobeying Meliodas and taking the armor Giant's heart (Dale)

    Merlin's respect for Meliodas, but at the same time holding something back from him

    Diane saying "don't wanna" when Ban was complaining she was protecting Meliodas and not him too

    Merlin defending Gowther's obliviousness when he was insulting Hawk's sacrifice from Ban.

    Some stuff I didn't really like:

    Ban trying to kill his best friend to revive Elaine. I mean the motivation is there, but it still makes him unsympathetic which I see as a common problem in a lot of movies/other media. (example: oh one human killed my parents, so the entire population of the Earth needs to die in my revenge!) really bro? don't be an asshole.

    The fairies treating King like shit. All I need to say is educate yourselves before you make accusations like that. If you learn the full story, and still want to say stuff like that, then be my guest.

    Hawk reviving for no real reason. I mean I'm sure that this will be explained later, but "You're alive?!?!" "Yup, seems like it" is kind of a slap to the face. atleast give a vague hint as to why it happened.
     
  3. RedBerserk

    RedBerserk Registered User

    中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member

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    My only problem is Elaine design, the fact that she looks like a little kid is unsettling considering her relationship with Ban, scenes of affection between them are cringe worthy for me, she should have an adult form like King.
     
  4. Holt

    Holt Mastermind

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    Hm, some have already been mentioned but here's mine:

    Elaine looking like a kid. Her relationship with ban and their kisses are just ..ugh *shudder*

    Same for Mel and Elizabeth. They don't kiss but the whole thing is weird and why the hell does Liz let Mel touch her like that? Its hilarious sometimes but then I just wonder if Liz has no self worth or something.

    Also, human Diane asking Mel to grope her. Sometimes I don't like how the ladies act and this was one of them. Mel rebuffed her (thankfully) but that was a blow to Liz. Ouch.

    Ban even considering to kill Mel and maybe get Elaine back. Completely stupid and retarded. I don't give a crap about how much he loved her but you don't give up something you have in the hopes that you get something you want.

    Hawk coming back to life. I kinda expected that but it left a bad taste and yay, after a while he's back to normal. :fail shouldn't have 'died' in the first place.

    Mel's height. Makes him look so hilarious at times.

    Jericho being stupid and ignoring the atrocities of the HK even when she saw with it her own eyes.

    Probably more but that's all I remember.

    I have way more cool and likable moments than criticisms though. Can't start listing them all.
     
  5. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    To me this kinda goes both ways. There is the disturbing element of ban, looking 25 or so, being sexually attracted to what looks like a 9 year old girl and then there is the fact that elaine is 1100 years old and ban was 25. Ban should have been a neophyte, a bug to her. At best as a human he would be a bleep in what should feel like an endless existence. And somehow those seven days changed things completely for her even though a human lifetime should be nothing...
     
  6. Holt

    Holt Mastermind

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    That is the beauty of love...no matter how weird it seems.
     
    Nia2 likes this.
  7. Notice me Escanor senpai

    Notice me Escanor senpai Registered User

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    Loli power :zomg

    ---------- Post added at 01:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 AM ----------

    My main criticism would be about King, he's always late at saving people, and even now he's late at confessing his love to Diane who might have forgotten about him again.
    Then there is the issue of Elizabeth being so insecure about herself and Mel. Not to mention we literally know nothing about Merlin. Of all the sins that were introduced we know the least about her.
     
  8. overlordpringerx

    overlordpringerx Registered User

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    well in both cases thats the whole point. King not having confessed his love for Diane is also to a very small degree Bans fault, for making it look like a joke at first when he told King. Though at least he told him the truth later on. Eli's insecurity is adorable and great contrast to her huge willpower. About Merlin, we know nothing about her but lets give her time. And about Hawk coming back from the dead, well i think there was more to it than we think.

    ---------- Post added at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 AM ----------

    well in both cases thats the whole point. King not having confessed his love for Diane is also to a very small degree Bans fault, for making it look like a joke at first when he told King. Though at least he told him the truth later on. Eli's insecurity is adorable and great contrast to her huge willpower. About Merlin, we know nothing about her but lets give her time. And about Hawk coming back from the dead, well i think there was more to it than we think.
     
  9. marwanmaj

    marwanmaj Registered User

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    Elaine has an adult form just like king and harliquen , but I think the author will keep it hidden after the revival of her by ban , and she will be a real beutiful , thats what I think
     
  10. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    Even if elaine does have another form I would think it is an non issue. Its not a true form, it is not even an inherent form. She could transform herself into anything she wants, she could just as easily make herself look younger. Her actual appearance would remain that of a prepubescent girl. And of course, elaine having to adapt her appearance to that extent to be with ban is in itself disturbing too.

    ---------- Post added at 10:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

    Well, to be fair most of the stuff that happens is rarely kings fault. How is it his fault that helbram went crazy or that he didn't know about it? Its not like he could have checked twitter or something. He lost his memory and its not like he had any clues regarding his identity.... He was alone in a mountain with diane for 500 years. What happened to diane at the kingdom is hardly his fault either... Its not like her ending up precisely at the worst possible location was within his control. I agree about elizabeth... Although my criticism wouldn't be about her insecurities as much as they would be about how overwhelmingly nice she is. She has no redeeming characteristics beyond her niceness. Sure, she has the overwhelming power of the apostle of the goddess but her personality is completely blank. If a person like her existed she would make objectively terrible company in any context that implies her opening to communicate ideas. And I am reasonably sure that she is effectively useless enough that she could just trip and die... anywhere, inexplicably. Even in spite of her ability to heal herself.

    Well, merlin is still a new character... My issue here would be that she is made out to be this sneaky woman with ulterior motives constantly while in reality she like the other sins is simply too kind for her own good. Well, I guess gowther is an exception because he literally can't feel kindness. To me one of the best lines in the manga is "I would apologize from the button of my heart if I had one". All that line was missing was ending in "yohohohohohoho".
     
  11. Notice me Escanor senpai

    Notice me Escanor senpai Registered User

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    How is it Ban's fault? It's hardly his, and really does he need someone to tell him that Diane is in love with him so that he can confess his love ?:huh Once again King is being too passive or rather he does something when it's already too late. I don't find that kind of quirk interesting tbh.

    ---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

    The thing that bothers me with Merlin other than not knowing anything about her is just like you pointed out her shadiness. I get a Gowther feeling from her, in the way that she can flip sides at any point. And not knowing anything about her race etc just makes it even harder to understand her motivation. Right now it does look like she's on the good side, but she's definitely interested in the demons and possibly the demon king as well.
     
  12. HeartGold12

    HeartGold12 Registered User

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    I don't think little kid describes her well. She does have an overwhelmingly loli appearance (big eyes, small lips and nose) but to me she looks around 14, with King loking around 16. Do note that 14 was old for medieval times aka the story setting. Elizabeth and Jericho are 16 and Diane seems 16-17 herself, Guila is 18 I think? Yet nobody gets alarmed by them having genuine romance with other people (except maybe Bartra).

    But guys, seriously. 7? 9? Yeah, that would be weird. But she definietely isn't younger than 12 ._____.

    I don't like the idea of her being suddenly magically beautiful due to glamour tbh. King's human form is overweight, and Helbram's was old. It would make sense for her form to be a little odd as well. Maybe a bit sicklish, with a small cough? Hmmm.
     
  13. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    Well, being interested in demons is not in itself being malevolent. So far her being sneaky is pretty much just how she roles but other than that everything she has done so far has resulted in the best possible outcome. She got arthur to help with hendrickson, defeated viviane, freed and healed the king and thanks to her teleportation camelot was saved. Her interest in demon powers seems to be mostly academic.
     
  14. overlordpringerx

    overlordpringerx Registered User

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    I said to a very small degree. Which means, he is one of the last people i would blame but not THE last. And King is anything BUT passive. He didnt hesitate in going to help Helbram, Diane and everybody. But too many things keep getting in his way. Also what you describe as a 'quirk' is anything but a quirk. A quirk is a harmless sometimes delightful oddity about a character's personality. But what you are calling a quirk is the cause of King's suffering and the reason he is the sin of sloth. As for those saying Eli has nothing apart from her niceness and powers... Yeah because the fight with ruin didnt show her willpower at all, huh?
     
  15. HeartGold12

    HeartGold12 Registered User

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    Also, she once jumped from a tower, got down safely by hanging onto a pipe, safely jumped to her feet and started screaming at Griamore. (tbh it reminded me 100% of Liz)

    I don't think Ban actually has a fault here. He told King that him leaving was not King's buisness and that he'll regret tagging along. He also made fun of King's love for Diane aka he wanted him to get mad (not the first time he used this method btw) and go back.

    Also, he probably thought it wasn't his buisness to meddle with King's love life. He's all kinds of secretive, except when he's drunk. However, once he told him, he actively encouraged King to reunite with her. He also refers to Diane as King's 'living loved one'. He's a shipper.
     
  16. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    I agree, ban didn't actually have to tell king about diane. Its technically a private matter which he needs not get involved. On the other hand as a "bro" he probably should have said that earlier. But then again ban is not really a "bro" to king. For him king being elaine's brother is a circumstantial thing more than anything, it does not particularly cause ban to be attached to king. If it comes to it he probably would help king with stuff but only because it would be important to elaine, not because king himself would mean much to ban.
     
  17. Demonspeed

    Demonspeed The Hierophant

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    Melizabeth: He interacts mainly with Elizabeth by harassing her, but he is not really the problem when the victim lets him do as he pleases And then she falls in love... It is heavily hinted that she is some reincarnation of Liz and yet she is like a completely different character. Suddenly when she realizes and feelings, she starts angsting because of a lover who is supposed to be dead...:-_-. Elizabeth...

    Ban: Nothing major, him trying to kill Meliodas to revive Elaine was a mistake but I find it understandable somewhat.

    King: I got that he has been unlucky in his life but, unable to fulfill his promise to Diane, he erased her memories, then he trusts the HolyKnights and decide to kill his companion Ban, knowing very well that they all backgrounds they don't want to talk about. Now that I think about it, it's kinda weird that he kept lamenting because of Diane since he is the one who erased her memories in the first place.

    Diane: Being used badly for romance stories which are not very good, I wonder what was the point to make her fall for Meliodas in the first place. Why does she think her pigtails are part of her charm when she is so obviously better with her hair down? ;bored She should change her hairstyle, her Giant clothes are a proof that she has not a good fashion sense :nah .

    Gowther: He is perfect. The incident with Guila made me like him even more.

    Merlin: Currently my 2nd favorite Sin :blush, though I am more confused about Magic and stuff because of her and her apprentice.

    It's not his fault at all. King decided to erase her memories, was lamenting all the time and didn't confess when they met again as Deadly Sins twice, now that she remembers for some reason, he is missing and Ban helped him, Ban did nothing wrong.
     
  18. overlordpringerx

    overlordpringerx Registered User

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    Hm. Never thought about it that way. But I mean is when Ban first said it he said it was a joke. Not until they were in the fairy king's forest did Ban reveal he was telling the truth the entire time. But yeah, I see your point. And it's true that he could have just kept quiet, but didn't.

    ---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

    Seriously? Trying to kill your in Ban's words: ONLY friend because you MIGHT get your dead girlfriend back is 'wrong but understandable' but Eli letting Mel grope her and Diane's fashion sense deserve bashing?! If anyone's actions were 'wrong but understandable' its King's. Ban, during their time as sins 10 years ago was not evil, but he acted like a ruthless dickbag who even stole stuffed animals from little children! If I was told that any sin was actually evil enough to burn down the fairy king's forest the one I would believe it to be is Ban. And King erased Diane's memories so she wouldn't miss him or feel abandoned. Plus, King didn't really 'lament' over Diane not remembering him, but instead tried to keep her happy at all times! If there was anything he was lamenting over, it was his own insecurity, and until the fight with Helbram that was mostly played for laughs! Last but not least, I dont think Diane was used for bad romance stories. In fact her story with King is one of the few good ones I've seen in a shonen. :-_-
     
  19. Notice me Escanor senpai

    Notice me Escanor senpai Registered User

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    Wow the prejudice against Ban is really big in here.Well what you say about Ban can apply to everyone else. You have to be blind not to realize that those two (King and Diane) care for each other. The sins were always seen joking around and teasing each other, even Gowther revealed some stuff about their past which made everyone uncomfortable. If Ban should be held responsible for not telling King that he should get together with Diane, so is Meliodas and Gowther who more than anyone else could know what was going on. He even concluded that Eli was in love with Mel only a mere instant after meeting her. In King and Diane's case they have interacted with them as members of the sins for more than 10 years. I think everyone suspected that King at least liked Diane and with the latest devlopements it seems that the feelings were mutual. But in reality it is no one's business to tell King that Diane is in love with him, just like I assume it would be for Melizabeth. It's a personal matter, and if anything Ban was making King a favor by encouraging him to go after Diane, prolly because he doesn't want history to repeat itself in a way, and that King and possibly Diane too end up alone and miserable and not being able to be with their loved one, like himself. So you see he has little responsability if not at all in this matter.
    I call it a quirk because I don't know what to call it. It's a trait that I don't particularily enjoy in manga characters. Always being late when you're expected, not making the right move at the right moment, being insecure and indecisive and not taking any initiative, or not taking the right one at the right moment...you get the drill. I know his story is sad and all, but a lot of the stuff King endured could have been avoided imo. Even now I expect him to stay in the forest and not go after Diane like Ban told him, because well it's King.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  20. Demonspeed

    Demonspeed The Hierophant

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    I am not bashing Diane at all... I want her with her hair down, how is it bashing?

    First I would not say that Meliodas is Ban's only friend. I do know that King erased her memories so that she would not miss him, it's just another of his promises that he didn't fulfill and this one is his entire fault, he should have not promised it in the first place or he should have asked her to join him, pretty sure she would have accepted. I don't see why he would trust Holy Knights who tried to frame them over Ban, him being a jerk is not a good reason for this.

    Here's why I find Ban's reaction understandable, he really is obsessed with Elaine, more than all the others, even King told him to give up trying to resurrect her, he dreams of her everytime he sleeps, he probably considers that she died because of him since she saved him with the water. He did it because he was desperate, it's one of the reason why he left the Sins, I am not expecting him to be infallible.
     
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