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Discussion Criticism Thread

Discussion in 'Nanatsu no Taizai' started by eefrit, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. Escanorzoldyck

    Escanorzoldyck Registered User

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    1-estarossa : i'm pretty sure that if he was the older and strongest brother would've been better and if he was rhe next in line but not interested and could've been the final boss of this arc
    2-escanor vs estarossa : it would've been better if the fight was the last one and i wanted it to last longer and it didnt seem like a clash of titan
    3-mel's revival and flashback : that romance between mel and eli.....eeuuh and the revival was too early and now we know mel wont stay dead even if he was killed (krillin)
    4-the unexplained timeskip
    5-the power levels
    6-the one sided fights : it was okay at first but now....
     
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  2. eefrit

    eefrit Who Dat Boy?

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    This current arc is magnifying an aspect of the Kingdom Invasion arc that I did not like.

    From the point where Ban talked to the Goddess to the "rescue" of King Bartras, everything felt weird and off, but, more obviously, everything came to the Sins much to easily. They steamrolled through the opposition and, similar to the Commandments, the threat of the Holy Knights, specifically the GHK, were slowly degraded to the point where tension was soon loss for a good stretch leading up to the climax.

    The same issue persist here. The Commandments no longer feel threatening. And because they no longer feel threatening, I barely feel any tension at this point in the series, just like before. This is compounded by the fact that the plot has apparently dictated that Commandments not share any information about threats who would, in any other case, warrant the sharing of information to your comrades. Fraudrin, and too a lesser extent Mera, Glox and Dolor, should have shared any and all information pertaining to Escanor, a being whose power level easily transcends your current strongest member, but, for reasons I can only assume to be Plot Induced Stupidity, won't. That is lazy writing, in my opinion, just to keep Escanor relevant as the Sins trump card. Let me list how things could have played out to keep Escanor's identity a secret amongst the Commandments:

    Mera: Her entire body was charred by Escanor, but you know what else should have been charred? Her vocal cords. Have it where she'd been attempting to tell everyone about what transpired, but could because of her voice is destroyed (potentially including a joke where everyone looks at Monspiet and he mentions he can only understand Derriere), she can't. Make it so Glox had already used up all of his Healing Drops, and she'd have to wait a bit longer to tell them the threat. She'd still attempt to steal Mel's soul, but have it where, in her internal dialogue, she'd be desperate to tell the group about Escanor and wants to use Mel's soul to recover enough strength to regenerate her vocal cords. Then that's when Ban comes in.

    *EDIT*: I'll rescind this criticism as I just re-read the chapter where Estarossa did reveal that Mera spoke about Escanor.

    Fraudrin: Easy fix. Expand on the fact that Escanor never showed up during the day, nor on most missions, so he never got a chance to really gauge his strength, despite knowing the others Sins for over 20 years. Blame it on Merlin keeping him underwraps.

    Glox and Dolor: I'm waiting to see if there is going to be a reason for them not telling. Despite their hatred, I'm assuming the both of them still want to take down the Demon King and are waiting for the right moment to do so, so not speaking about Escanor is something they chose to do to further their own goals. If not, well, there is no excuse for them to not have spoken up after Estarossa killed Mel.

    Speaking of Mel, I felt that his revival was poorly executed and had no real weight. He was only dead for 11 chapters, counting the chapter where his fate during death was immediately shown, which further dulled the blow of his death. And yes, while I never expected Mel to be dead forever or it to last long, I expected his return to have some semblance of impact. This was Fairy Tail's level of impact, a series where a character's "death" is built up and made to be a big deal, but they are immediately shown to be fine within the next 1-3 chapters. I let it slide in Nakaba's other series, Kongou Banchou, but not here. At least in that series, it was a pretty epic build up, despite it the main character being dead for an even shorter amount of time. Mel returned with a whimper, and not a bang. Saving Elizabeth is not a Big Hero Moment, in my opinion.

    His return also worries me as that will potentially be more screen time stolen from the other Sins. Merlin's appearance and victory could very well have happened right after Escanor left. This would have been the perfect moment to show the fruits of the other Sins training and allow them to finally show that they are now a potential match for the Commandments. Show that, even without their Captain, they are capable of functioning and protecting Britannia.

    I already spoke about my issues with Merlin in the main chapter thread, so I'll just copy and paste my thoughts here as well.

    Anyway, yeah, these are my current criticisms of this arc. I'm really hoping for a bomb ass Climax, otherwise, I'm just sticking with it to see King and Gowther stomp before the next arc starts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
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  3. Yakkun

    Yakkun Registered User

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    I can tolerate a lot of things about the series. The only instance where I really felt a shift was during the second Byzel festival, when Meliodas somehow beat the shit out of both Dolor and Gloxinia at once. Considering we got more info on them after that which puts them more at the top end of the 10C food chain rather than the bottom end, makes it even harder to believe this was possible without any sort of MC bonus or plot induced stupidity or ass-pull.

    Before that was fine, sure the dismantling of both Galan and Mera wasn't pretty either but it happened at the hands of the supposedly "strongest" Sin, Escanor. After that the title of strongest has been interchangably and inflatedly been blown around with various characters so it is hard to even take it serious anymore, but still, Escanor could always back up that title given to him. So those two, who are also among the weaker 10C losing to him was still sort of plausible. Even Dolor and Gloxinia becoming wounded by him was. The Meliodas thing however, was not, unless they were pulling their punches on him despite the exchanged kill threats and whatnot.

    I am still on the fence with all the events that transpired after that because it opened up a path of stomping the 10C in swift succession. Meliodas was temporally killed, the Commandments seemed to be coming out victorious again after taking revenge for the beating of Dolor and Glox but effectively it's all been nullified again. And I don't know what to do with it because either Nakaba is setting up his biggest plot twist yet that will make all the nay-sayers look like fools or he is genuinely trying to kill them all off fast to make room for the next batch of villains, the goddesses. Which would totally steer the series in a direction I don't like at all, it's way too reminiscent of disasters like Bleach which had one villain group after another, each as superficially bland and uninspired as the next.

    Beyond that, I only have minor issues with some individual chapters and character developments, like Merlin forgetting she had decree immunity and stuff like that. With clever argumentation you can perhaps work around that blatant weakness in the narrative but only if you are generous. It remains a lazy move even though it's no big deal in the big picture of things since we never knew anything of substance about Merlin in the first place. Nakaba can literally make up anything about here without it being excessively weird since we know shit about Merlin. And she has to be a very special someone anyway by right of her legendary name, just like Arthur will be.
     
  4. Magiie

    Magiie Registered User

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    I really dislike the development of this arc
    1- TC could have been better fighters, they are powerful, really powerful but thing like Escanor made me lose a little interest, I'm not saying Escanor should not be that powerful but the way of fighting TC were better, they were defeared sooo easly that actually is stupid because they are suposed to be the strongest demons; when galan apeared at camelot, it was good, the fight was good, everything was good, but now the TC are just a bunch of demons that can be easly defeated.
    Escanor has the power to destroy the demon realm just by himself, he can go there and do sunshine here, and there and kill everyone.
    The only moment I liked about the fight of mel, derr and monspiet was when zaratras sensed monspiet behind him, that made me remember they were a real threat
    2- It was really bad to make Escanor unleash his power at night and with such magnitude, The problem is not Escanor, the problem is that the fights finished too fast, and it is not just because Escanor is indeed strong but cause The TC are too stupid, I started wondering if the TC dont talk to each other in their "free time", this is just stupid how nakaba made this arc
    3-Thing happen too fast and without sense..
    why is it that mel didn't talk about the commandments
    Why is it merlin didn't use her abilities properly
    Why is it ban didn't use hunter fest when facing estarossa at liones (At lest he could have defeated one of the TC)
    Why is it that the TC didn't came up with a plan after knowing Escanor or
    Why is it that glox and dolor didn't talk about Escanors power
    And lots of other things
    Im writing on my phone :/
     
  5. Yakkun

    Yakkun Registered User

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    I can at least answer the Hunter Fest thing - because it is useless for him right now. He cannot go past the treshhold right now, which is about half of Galan's strength. A bit more than that actually, but that is still way too little to defeat Estarossa or any of the other Commandments with high strength numbers.
     
  6. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    I don't really see how exactly the bad guys in the story are generic. I mean, who and how? Hendricksen? Dreyfus? Estarosa? Maybe galan has a few generic aspects to him being that he is a relatively shallower commandment but in turn I don't see anyone else fitting specifically into tropes...
     
  7. BaseNeptune

    BaseNeptune Registered User

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    Alrighty. The one thing that will continue to gripe me about this arc, is the pacing. Not necessarily the events of the arc, since these things felt like they were in a long time coming, and also I enjoyed these events immensely. But the pacing, the one month time skip, useless to showcase the "despair" and power of the ten commandments (Though I never did feel worried for the characters even when they first were introduced, and that's okay.) What we get is a supposed character development that could have been shown much smoother without the time skip.

    Other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed the way its going.
     
  8. Xenotosgolgia

    Xenotosgolgia Registered User

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    That's another problem too is character development. No one besides Gowther and King(trusting Mel less) have changed at all. Every character acts the same as before never learning they feel like card board cut outs with attributes now. I wouldn't call what Mel is going through development and Merlin is just Mayuri from Bleach.
     
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  9. BaseNeptune

    BaseNeptune Registered User

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    I feel like some of the characters have gone through enough development as it is, now its on to some of the ones who haven't. Like Elizabeth, or Diane, maybe Merlin? We haven't gotten enough of her to really judge her. Just a couple of smirks and a pinch of a reveal. For now though, some characters remain a mystery.
     
  10. eefrit

    eefrit Who Dat Boy?

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    Diane hasn't developed at all as a character. She's flat out retrogressed. Her memory loss has done nothing for her character at all. She's learned nothing new, she's not looking at anything from another perspective. She's the same exact character who just doesn't remember certain people.

    Merlin hasn't gotten development either.
     
  11. BaseNeptune

    BaseNeptune Registered User

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    Indeed, it would be nice if Diane got more screen time. We can't really judge Merlin as of now I think. We haven't gotten enough, or know enough for a change to be substantial and needed. Elizabeth and Diane though, those two would be a nice and welcomed aspect to the story.
     
  12. Xenotosgolgia

    Xenotosgolgia Registered User

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    I don't know why everyone is trying so hard to defend this crappy arc. Bleach fans can admit after Soul Society the quality dropped. Shougeki no Soma fans admit once the evil CEO came in it got illogical. Naruto fans know part 1 was better than Shippuden and the 3rd great ninja war had major problems. Even Boku no Hero fans admit that the last chapter that some of the UA students need to lose this next round or it'll feel like they sorta never lose. Why can't you admit that this arc isn't that good?
     
  13. Yakkun

    Yakkun Registered User

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    Because some people are really not all that bothered by it, maybe? If it's a big deal for you, okay, but don't go fishing for agreement.
     
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  14. Monotone Madness

    Monotone Madness Registered User

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    I'm not gonna comment on the story or characters since I've got problems with that since the first arc, and I've become jaded enough to take it in stride in this kind of series. Plus, if I were to say all my problems with it it would turn into a whole essay.

    Anyways, the criticism I want to address may be subjective but I'll vent it anyway. The heart of this manga has been gone for some time. The main reason I picked up this series in the first place was because I just wanted some dumb fun. In all honesty this manga gets really dumb at times, and that's not just including this arc, but my mentality has always been that if it makes it up with cool shit, I'll be okay. Except lately this manga has gotten straight up boring. The fights are nowhere as entertaining as they used to be, and the screentime isn't on the characters that need it. Meliodas was freakin dead and he still had more screentime than the other sins. I've already posted in the past the problems I have with disproportionate attention the characters get both in action and development so I won't go further in that. So I'll just get back into the fights.

    Lately, we've been having:
    Turn-based combat
    A wasted potential to see Elizabeth actually fight
    Magic battles of the dull kind
    Utter hype destruction for the villains

    The manga is just...not very exciting anymore, but I'll keep reading to see if it gets better. It's a little disheartening that the best fight scenes lately have been coming from Meliodas, not that I don't like his choreography, but because his lines have always been really lame and lack any kind of heart to me. I really wish Diane was badass again. She probably had the best fights in terms of choreography and they always had a lot of heart.
     
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  15. baditz

    baditz Registered User

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    What arc you talking about? I like from chap 100 to Meliodas die, and if you talking about after time skip, this arc not end yet, so how can people actually judge it, i dont know about you, but i already watch a lot kind movie its kinda boring half way, but turn out the big plot twist,,
    The only think i dislike the fight is short, And its look like Nakaba dont know where to bring Diane, she kinda flat since beginning and for her gaiden.
    I dont have problem with power level right now.
     
  16. Sylphe

    Sylphe Registered User

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    Nice reply !
    And i add : Because some people simply don't judge arcs before their final conclusion ! If i have to give a criticism about the current arc it will not be before its end ! Things which some catalogued as "bad writing" might make sense afterwards when the story will progress enough ! That's the very concept of a plot twist ! I'm not saying it will necessarily happen here, but as long as the arc is not finished the possibility still exists ! That's why i never label an arc as "crappy" or whatever pejorative word you might use to call it before having read it as a whole !

    Also, for the time being, i don't really have major issues with this arc ! Sure lately the fights have been nothing but One Shots but it doesn't bother me in the least since that outcome was logical ! ( but it's just my personal taste here and i perfectly understand why some people are complaining) I still hope for the 10C to raise again and kick ass or at least have real and epic battles agianst the Sins( and also to have a proper background and chracterization) since we know for sure that most of them are still alive !

    and lastly, my advice for some who can't stand others having opinions different to theirs, to not speak as if their own opinion was a fact and therefore making it sound like those which don't share it are fools ! ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
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  17. kkck

    kkck MH Senpai

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    I don't particularly get the impression there has been a sudden drop in quality in the manga. There have been a few slow moments but overall I still see the same manga. Even the whole thing with the commandments being defeated.... that's not an issue. Their entire purpose in the story is to be defeated, from a plot perspective they exist for nothing else. And even then, the vast majority of the commandments still see to be alive. Even melascula is probably alive considering zaratras. I guess we have to wait until we see elaine's body again.
     
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  18. Xenotosgolgia

    Xenotosgolgia Registered User

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    This wasn't about fishing for agreement it was about Taizai fanboys stretching to make this arc make any sense in some areas. I mean if you like bad villains that waste panel time are fundamentally retarded which is somehow justified(not in my eyes) by them being prideful that's fine. My problem is the leaps in logic to try to justify things and you guys defending it as if it does make sense. Bleach did this same garbage but I bet you talked crap about it. Merlin did a textbook asspull and you'll defend it. Derriere had the most retarded plan and you guys defended it. I swear if Escanor bests the Demon King in one swing you'll justify that. Like the arc all you want but what I don't like is you trying so hard to get us to buy into Suzuki's bad writing. That's my problem it was never about you liking the arc or the terribly written villains but for you to try and justify things that don't make sense that's my problem. Every other fandom can admit when their favorite story does stuff that make no sense. You guys just won't admit it and try to get other to buy it.
     
  19. BaseNeptune

    BaseNeptune Registered User

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    We know the criticism, we know your guys arguments. Scroll up, this whole thread has been pointing these things out. You believe the villains are bad? That's your opinion and thats ok. You believe the writing is bad? That's your opinion and that's ok.

    Dislike the arc all you want but what I don't like is you trying so hard to get us to buy into your own opinion.

    Every person in this thread has admitted a criticism. And it ain't no more or less than what you are doing.
     
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  20. beatmachineon

    beatmachineon Registered User

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    like i said before and i will say it again i see no character development either ..you mean to tell me Elizabeth develop during this whole arc..she still the same since the first the few chapters ..i cant stress this enough .
     
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