That depends on individuals...there are people who are being extremely careful and learn from their experience, and those who let their exploits get over their heads with the impression that they are invincible. Crocodile was of the latter type, and it's pretty clear in the alabasta arc.
Example1
Example2
Example3
Example4
Example5
All these examples illustrate how Crocodile, in all their 3 encounters, sees luffy just as a crazy rogue who doesn't know his place. You can see in example 5 how
surprised Crocodile was after receiving all those hits from Luffy, he clearly didn't count on that.
It's true that Crocodile was not as physically strong as he should've been (based on his achievements and reputation), but that could be explained by two things : First, because of his time spent plotting in Alabasta he forgot to train his body, and was overly dependent on his DF, just as you've said. Second, plot hole !
So what I'm trying to say is, based on reputations and achievements, Crocodile should know Haki and is no pushover. Again the reasons why he lost was because
he underestimated and didn't acknowledge the strength of his foe (as shown above), and because Luffy had plot armor...their last fight is only 2 chapters long...
Source: Chapter 204
You're making an error.
Not every surprise can be regarded as underestimating.
There's the surprise that comes from judgement possibly by appearance or attitude during a first encounter, that's the
initial basis by which underestimating an opponent is pointed out, but that element of surprises is quickly dissolved by the time the opponent has made a point that, such preconceptions are sorely mistaken.
Then, there's in-between exchanges where the odd attack is successful and seemingly takes the opponent by the surprise, it's not surprise, just poor reaction, but that's just proof this is an exchange between characters of equal strength. It may appear as underestimating, but it isn't. It's not like when Akainu hit Whitebeard, or when Whitebeard hit Akainu, it was because they underestimated each other, they're just 2 powerful individuals.
Source: 204
Source: Chapter 204
Crocodile may have been overconfident simply because he was a Logia, he didn't think Luffy could touch him, however, we see that Luffy proves that by mixing blood with his fist, hitting a Logia of his nature is possible. The scenes above are the final moments in their encounters, and he even questions what can he do without water, why? because in previous encounters, Luffy proved his strength, or else, Crocodile wouldn't be worried about his ability to physically touch him.
He never underestimated Luffy's power, he merely underestimated:
- Luffy's ability to touch him. Their first close encounter was with "Water Luffy", and water is limited, there's only so much Luffy could have done with a finite source of water. That's why even in their final encounter and seeing Luffy without water, he asks, what can you accomplish without water?
Source: Chapter 209
The point is ultimately made here, 5 chapters later, Crocodile is still having a difficult time with Luffy and is twitching with pain. The fact remains:
- How does a strong individual, find the punch of a pre-skip Luffy painful? should be mosquito bites even if he were being taken off-guard.
In fact,
he's clearly acknowledged Luffy's power because he asks,
where is he drawing his strength from? and this is even after he's being poisoned by a paralytic agent. You don't question strength, if the strength isn't there just like you don't question persistence, if persistence isn't present, or incessant.
First, because of his time spent plotting in Alabasta he forgot to train his body, and was overly dependent on his DF, just as you've said. Second, plot hole !
So what I'm trying to say is, based on reputations and achievements, Crocodile should know Haki and is no pushover. Again the reasons why he lost was because he underestimated and didn't acknowledge the strength of his foe (as shown above), and because Luffy had plot armor...their last fight is only 2 chapters long...
That's an excuse. He forgot to train his body? would you kindly show where that was ever stated in the Manga?
Is he too unintelligent to multitask? Where did every other character get the time to train whilst making grandiose plans?
Joker planned for just as long as Crocodile, did he forget to train his body too? That really is just an excuse.
What about Rayleigh who quit being a Pirate, or Chinjao, what about them? Crocodile is, and has always been an active Pirate. Just because he's making plans is not a valid reason, or excuse as to why he was defeated. He simply is overestimated and not assessed objectively.
He didn't even use Observation Haki which is merely the power to predict the opponent's move and evade. I guess, Crocodile was simply too stupid to even use Observation Haki? I think not, he simply lacked the ability.
Veterans are not that negligent. Crocodile clearly fought to the best of his abilities, and it wasn't enough. You're insinuating that a character that is:
- Breathing heavily
- Dodging attacks
- Attacking back
wasn't trying? with all the above expressed, it contradicts such a notion as "not trying", or underestimating.
If he was no push-over, nothing that Luffy could do even with the ability to touch him, should have been ultimately rendered futile. Crocodile should have surpassed him in both speed and strength, but it's clear they were pretty much evenly matched with Luffy slightly stronger. A poisoned Luffy was still very capable of fighting while Crocodile had not suffered any such handicapping.
Actually that's exactly what happened between Crocodile and Luffy, nice example ^^ If truly the statements of the "underestimating" and "plot" are invalid, then it means that luffy was already strong enough to venture through the new world at the time he beat Crocodile. Of course he was nowhere near that level at that time.
Actually, no, that's wrong. Crocodile wasn't defeated by surprise like the SHs and Marines were at Punk-Hazard:
- SHs and Marines were defeated by an attack they never saw coming, the ability to rid the air of oxygen.
- Crocodile was defeated by attacks he could see coming. Big difference.
And the very fact he defeated Crocodile proves had he met Crocodile in the New World, Luffy would still have been capable of defeating him had he been utilizing bloodied fists. Crocodile's physical state just isn't noteworthy, or those attacks should not have made that much of an impact is the fact of the matter at the end of the day. You don't suddenly get a power-up just because you're in the New World, however strong he is, is simply how strong he is.
And there's a difference between being able to take on Crocodile, and then take on the New World, Crocodile isn't the New World. The only reason Crocodile was formidable is simply because he lacked a Logia ability.
Source: Chapter 441
In fact, Teach asked Ace when was the last time he got hit, a New world Pirate, why? because he's a Logia. Logias still have great advantages because their power isn't brute force, but effect that isn't measure by strength. This is clearly why Crocodile was formidable.
Brute strength can mitigate weaker strength, brute strength can't mitigate or render effects such as burns, electrocution, or dehydration useless. Even Whitebeard without the ability to touch Crocodile, would be defeated by Crocodile.
So basically you want to say that Caesar, a mere scientist who ate an OP fruit, is as tough as a Pacifista. Meaning that if you handcuff him with sea stone, and you have pre-time skip luffy, zoro and sanji attack him simultaneouslywith their "Canon" attack, it will just scratch him...I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense.
Actually, no, that is what we saw. That is what Oda himself drew, so unless you're the one who dictates how things should be illustrated for Oda, and he does otherwise, you really have no basis or merit by which to say, this portrayal is wrong.
And what's wrong with a scientists being powerful? Sanji is a mere cook.
If you take attacks that would destroy a Pacifista, it means you're sturdier than a Pacifista, that's visual verification, therefore, what's there to debate about?
P.S: Oh forgot to add that even Doflamingo said that the strawhats should not be underestimated and that those who did had it coming to them...he was clearly referring to Crocodile...
Pretty sure that was stated by Law, what Joker actually said was, be weary of Luffy as he possesses CoC.
Even if they were underestimated, it was still initial.
Fact still remains that:
- Crocodile fought to the best of his abilities, used his poison to seal the deal and failed, and even after it was clear Luffy was capable of touching him, he still lacked the speed and strength to evade attacks from a pre-skip Luffy.
- Lucci used his best abilities whilst fighting Luffy, and still lost.
- Moriah even absorbed a 1,000 shadows in attempt to defeat Luffy, how does fighting with a 1,000 shadows equate to underestimating? In fact, he absorbed way too many for him to control, that's an act of desperation.
Underestimating can only be initial, not on-going. You touch fire, you get burned, next time, you're far more careful. Underestimation is exactly like that, it's initial.
Finally, plot-armour? No. If Plot armour is the case, then Luffy would have defeated Aokiji, Sentoumaru, Kizaru, Kuma and Akainu when:
- Ace died right in-front of him.
- And his Nakama were being sent flying across the world and defeated 1 by 1.
If there was ever a time the all-mighty shounen plot-power was to kick in, those were the moments, yet, he was left in a pitiful state and rendered defeated both physically and emotionally. Luffy never defeats opponents beyond his reach, or else, he'd never have been able to push them to their limits or having them exhausted and bleeding profusely. Lucci was left recovering for months iirc.
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