Discussion Devil Fruit Discussion Thread

[Erinyes]

Oh Pudding Memo memo no mi, and Viola's giro giro are also great options

I forgot a lot of interesting fruits, so decide to list* them here so you can click the link and check the ones youd like to pick. (source : picked the lists from wikia)

*listed only canon fruits.

paramecia

Paramecia fruits​

• Gomu Gomu no Mi (English versions: Gum-Gum Fruit): Turns the user's body into rubber, giving them the power to stretch, bounce, and inflate; as well as make them immune to electricity and near impervious to blunt-force attacks and bullets. Eaten by Monkey D. Luffy.
• Bara Bara no Mi (English versions: Chop-Chop Fruit): Allows the user to split their body into separate pieces, which the user can manipulate and make fly through the air. It also makes them immune to slashing attacks. Eaten by Buggy.
• Sube Sube no Mi (English versions: Slip-Slip Fruit/Smooth-Smooth Fruit): Makes the user's skin extremely smooth and slippery, causing things to slide off them. Eaten by Alvida.
• Bomu Bomu no Mi (English versions: Bomb-Bomb Fruit/Boom-Boom Fruit): Allows the user to create explosions from their body, as well as give explosive properties to their bodily secretions. Also makes the user immune to explosions. Eaten by Gem.
• Kiro Kiro no Mi (English versions: Kilo-Kilo Fruit): Allows the user to increase or decrease their body weight at will. Eaten by Mikita.
• Hana Hana no Mi (English versions: Flower-Flower Fruit): Allows the user to sprout duplicates of their body parts from any nearby surface. Eaten by Nico Robin.
• Doru Doru no Mi (English versions: Wax-Wax Fruit): Allows the user to create and control candle wax. Eaten by Galdino.
• Baku Baku no Mi (English versions: Munch-Munch Fruit): Allows the user to eat anything and transform their body to match the qualities of what they've recently eaten. Eaten by Wapol.
• Mane Mane no Mi (English versions: Clone-Clone Fruit): Allows the user to transform into a physical lookalike of another person. Eaten by Kurozumi Higurashi until her death and later eaten by Bentham.
• Supa Supa no Mi (English versions: Dice-Dice Fruit): Allows the user to transform any part of their body into a blade, thus gaining slashing abilities and making their skin as hard as steel. Eaten by Daz Bonez.
• Toge Toge no Mi (English versions: Spike-Spike Fruit): Allows the user to grow spikes from their body. Eaten by Zala.
• Ori Ori no Mi (English versions: Cage-Cage Fruit/Bind-Bind Fruit): Allows the user to create iron bindings on their opponents. Eaten by Hina.
• Bane Bane no Mi (English versions: Spring-Spring Fruit/Boing-Boing Fruit): Allows the user to turn their limbs into springs. Eaten by Bellamy.
• Ito Ito no Mi (English versions: String-String Fruit): Allows the user to create and control strings. Eaten by Donquixote Doflamingo.
• Noro Noro no Mi (English versions: Slow-Slow Fruit): Allows the user to emit special photons that slow down anything they touch for 30 seconds. Eaten by Foxy.
• Doa Doa no Mi (English versions: Door-Door Fruit): Allows the user to create and open doors on anything, including walls, living beings, and the even the air itself. Eaten by Blueno.
• Awa Awa no Mi (English versions: Bubble-Bubble Fruit): Allows the user to create and control soap bubbles that can clean anything, including strength. Eaten by Kalifa.
• Beri Beri no Mi (English versions: Berry-Berry Fruit): Allows the user to split their body into many spheres. Eaten by Very Good.
• Sabi Sabi no Mi (English versions: Rust-Rust Fruit): Allows the user to rust anything they touch, including organic material. Eaten by Shu.
• Shari Shari no Mi (English versions: Wheel-Wheel Fruit): Allows the user to turn their limbs into wheels. Eaten by Sharinguru.
• Horo Horo no Mi (English versions: Hollow-Hollow Fruit): Allows the user to create and control ghosts. The ghosts cause despair in the people they touch and are capable of self-destructing. The user can also make their own ghost leave their body. Eaten by Perona.
• Yomi Yomi no Mi (English versions: Revive-Revive Fruit): Allows the user to return to life after dying once already, as well as allow the user to make their returned soul temporarily leave their reanimated body. Eaten by Brook.
• Kage Kage no Mi (English versions: Shadow-Shadow Fruit): Allows the user to manifest and control shadows. Eaten by Gecko Moria.
• Suke Suke no Mi (English versions: Clear-Clear Fruit): Allows the user to become invisible, as well as make anything they touch invisible. Eaten by Absalom until his death and later eaten by Shiryu.
• Nikyu Nikyu no Mi (English versions: Paw-Paw Fruit): Gives the user paw pads on their hands that can repel anything they touch. Eaten by Bartholomew Kuma.
• Ope Ope no Mi (English versions: Op-Op Fruit): Allows the user to generate a sphere-like room, inside which they can manipulate anything. Eaten by Trafalgar D. Water Law.
• Shiro Shiro no Mi (English versions: Castle-Castle Fruit): Allows the user to become a living fortress equipped with cannons, as well as letting them shrink people and objects and house them inside their body. Eaten by Capone Bege.
• Wara Wara no Mi (English versions: Straw-Straw Fruit): Allows the user to create and control straw. They can attach other people's life forces to straw dolls, allowing the damage they take to transfer to the dolls and the people connected to them. Eaten by Basil Hawkins.
• Mero Mero no Mi (English versions: Love-Love Fruit): Allows the user to turn people that feel attraction for them into stone. Eaten by Boa Hancock.
• Doku Doku no Mi (English versions: Venom-Venom Fruit): Allows the user to create and control poison. Eaten by Magellan.
• Horu Horu no Mi (English versions: Horm-Horm Fruit): Allows the user to create special hormones and inject them into a persons body, changing their biochemistry. Eaten by Emporio Ivankov.
• Choki Choki no Mi (English versions: Snip-Snip Fruit): Allows the user to transform parts of their body into scissors. Anything cut by these scissors briefly gains the properties of paper. Eaten by Inazuma.
• Gura Gura no Mi (English versions: Tremor-Tremor Fruit): Allows the user to create quakes and shockwaves. Considered to be the most powerful Paramecia. Eaten by Edward Newgate and later stolen from him by Marshall D. Teach upon his death.
• Kira Kira no Mi: Allows the user to transform their body into diamond. Eaten by Jozu.
• Woshu Woshu no Mi (English versions: Wash-Wash Fruit): Allows the user to literally wash and fold a person as if they were laundry. It also makes the victim's heart cleaner. Eaten by Tsuru.
• Fuwa Fuwa no Mi (English versions: Float-Float Fruit): Allows the user to fly and make non-living things they touch levitate. Eaten by Shiki.
• Mato Mato no Mi (English versions: Mark-Mark Fruit): Allows the user to mark a person as their target by touching them so that any weapon thrown with that same hand will chase after the marked target. Eaten by Vander Decken IX.
• Fuku Fuku no Mi (English versions: Garb-Garb Jutsu): Allows the user to create clothing. Eaten by Kin'emon.
• Hobi Hobi no Mi (English versions: Hobby-Hobby Fruit): Allows the user to turn people into subservient toys, simultaneously erasing any memory of the victim from the minds of others. It also halts the user's aging. Eaten by Sugar.
• Buki Buki no Mi (English versions: Arms-Arms Fruit): Allows the user to transform their body into any kind of weapon. Eaten by Baby 5.
• Guru Guru no Mi (English versions: Spin-Spin Fruit): Allows the user to make any part of their body spin like a propeller. Eaten by Buffalo.
• Beta Beta no Mi (English versions: Stick-Stick Fruit): Allows the user to create and control mucus. Eaten by Trebol.
• Zushi Zushi no Mi: Allows the user to manipulate gravity. Eaten by Issho.
• Bari Bari no Mi (English versions: Barrier-Barrier Fruit): Allows the user to create barriers. Eaten by Kurozumi Semimaru until his death and later eaten by Bartolomeo.
• Nui Nui no Mi (English versions: Stitch-Stitch Power): Allows the user to stitch things together. Eaten by Leo.
• Giro Giro no Mi (English versions: Glare-Glare Fruit): Allows the user to see through solid objects, as well as read people's minds and memories. Eaten by Viola.
• Ato Ato no Mi (English versions: Art-Art Fruit): Allows the user to transform people and objects into art. Eaten by Giolla.
• Jake Jake no Mi (English versions: Jacket-Jacket Fruit): Allows the user to transform into a jacket and control the body of the person wearing them. Eaten by Kelly Funk.
• Pamu Pamu no Mi (English versions: Pop-Pop Fruit): Allows the user to expand and rupture their body, as well as any inorganic object they touch. Eaten by Gladius.
• Sui Sui no Mi (English versions: Swim-Swim Fruit): Allows the user to swim freely in the ground and walls. Eaten by Senor Pink.
• Ton Ton no Mi (English versions: Ton-Ton Fruit): Allows the user to drastically increase their body weight. Eaten by Machvise.
• Hira Hira no Mi (English versions: Ripple-Ripple Fruit): Allows the user to give anything they touch the properties of fabric, making it thin, flexible, and fluttering. Eaten by Diamante.
• Ishi Ishi no Mi (English versions: Stone-Stone Fruit): Allows the user to assimilate into and control stone. Eaten by Pica.
• Nagi Nagi no Mi (English versions: Calm-Calm Fruit): Allows the user to nullify sounds. Eaten by Donquixote Rosinante until his death.
• Chiyu Chiyu no Mi (English versions: Heal-Heal Fruit): Allows the user to heal people's wounds. Eaten by Mansherry.
• Soru Soru no Mi (English versions: Soul-Soul Fruit): Allows the user to extract people's souls and use them to bring objects to life. Eaten by Carmel until her death and later eaten by Charlotte Linlin.
• Mira Mira no Mi (English versions: Mirror-Mirror Fruit): Allows the user to create mirrors that reflect attacks and act as entrances to the Mirro-World. Eaten by Charlotte Brûlée.
• Pero Pero no Mi (English versions: Lick-Lick Fruit): Allows the user to create and control candy. Eaten by Charlotte Perospero.
• Bisu Bisu no Mi (English versions: Bis-Bis Fruit): Allows the user to create and control biscuits. Eaten by Charlotte Cracker.
• Bata Bata no Mi (English versions: Butter-Butter Fruit): Allows the user to create and control butter. Eaten by Charlotte Galette.
• Buku Buku no Mi (English versions: Book-Book Fruit): Allows the user to manipulate books, as well as trap people inside them. Eaten by Charlotte Mont-d'Or.
• Kuri Kuri no Mi (English versions: Cream-Cream Fruit): Allows the user to create and control cream. Eaten by Charlotte Opera.
• Shibo Shibo no Mi (English versions: Wring-Wring Fruit): Allows the user to drain liquid from people and objects. Eaten by Charlotte Smoothie.
• Memo Memo no Mi (English versions: Memo-Memo Fruit): Allows the user to manipulate people's memories. Eaten by Charlotte Pudding.
• Mochi Mochi no Mi (English versions: Mochi-Mochi Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into mochi. Eaten by Charlotte Katakuri. This Devil Fruit is noted to be a "special Paramecia".
• Hoya Hoya no Mi (English versions: Puff-Puff Fruit): Allows the user to summon a genie from their body. Eaten by Charlotte Daifuku.
• Netsu Netsu no Mi (English versions: Heat-Heat Fruit): Allows the user to emit high heat from their body. Eaten by Charlotte Oven.
• Kuku Kuku no Mi (English versions: Cook-Cook Fruit): Allows the user to transform objects into food. Eaten by Streusen.
• Gocha Gocha no Mi: Allows the user to fuse themselves with other people. Eaten by Charlotte Newshi.
• Oshi Oshi no Mi (English versions: Push-Push Fruit): Allows the user to manipulate the ground as if it were made of clay. Eaten by Morley.
• Kobu Kobu no Mi (English versions: Pump-Pump Fruit): Allows the user to rally people into fighting and awaken their latent potential. Eaten by Belo Betty.
• Toki Toki no Mi (English versions: Time-Time Ability): Allows the user to send themselves and others forward in time. Eaten by Kozuki Toki until her death.
• Juku Juku no Mi (English versions: Ripe-Ripe Jutsu): Allows the user to mature and decay inanimate objects. Eaten by Shinobu.

Unnamed Fruits

• Eustass Kid's fruit which allows him to manipulate magnetic forces.
• Jewelry Bonney's fruit which allows her to manipulate the age of any person, including herself.
• Scratchmen Apoo's fruit which allows him to morph body parts into instruments and use music as a weapon.
• Urouge's fruit which allows him to convert damage taken into strength, resulting in expanding muscles.
• Blamenco's fruit which creates pockets in his body that can store things such as a giant hammer.
• Sanjuan Wolf's fruit that makes him bigger than regular giants.
• Kurozumi Kanjuro's fruit that allows him to bring whatever he draws to life. Like Kin'emon, he refers to it as sorcery.
• Tama's fruit that allows her to create dango from her cheeks that make any animal that eats them tame and subservient.

zoan

Zoan fruits

​

Ushi Ushi no Mi (Ox) series

• Ushi Ushi no Mi, Model: Bison (English versions: Ox-Ox Fruit/Ox-Ox Fruit, Bison Model/Ox-Ox Fruit, Bison Form) - Allows the user to become a full bison or a half-bison hybrid. Eaten by Dalton.
• Ushi Ushi no Mi, Model: Giraffe (English versions: English versions: Ox-Ox Fruit, Giraffe Model/Ox-Ox Fruit, Model: Giraffe) - Allows the user to become a full giraffe or a half-giraffe hybrid. Eaten by Kaku.

Hito Hito no Mi (Human) series

• Hito Hito no Mi (English versions: Human-Human Fruit) - Allows any animal that eats it to get human characteristics like Tony Tony Chopper did when he ate the fruit.
• Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu (English versions: Human-Human Fruit, Daibutsu Model/Human-Human Fruit, Model: Buddha) - Allows the user to become a Daibutsu (a giant gold Buddha) or a half-Daibutsu hybrid. Eaten by Sengoku.

Tori Tori no Mi (Bird) series

• Tori Tori no Mi, Model: Falcon (English version: Tweet-Tweet Fruit, Falcon Type/Bird-Bird Fruit, Model: Falcon) - Allows the user to become a full falcon or a half-falcon hybrid. Eaten by Pell.
• Tori Tori no Mi, Model: Phoenix - Allows the user to become a full phoenix or a half-phoenix hybrid. Eaten by Marco.
• Tori Tori no Mi, Model: Albatross - Allows the user to become a full albatross or a half-albatross hybrid. Eaten by Morgans.

Inu Inu no Mi (Dog) series

• Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Dachshund (English version: Mutt-Mutt Fruit/Mutt-Mutt Fruit, Dachshund Form/Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Dachshund) - Allows the user to become a full dachshund or a half-dachshund hybrid. In the case of Babe's bazooka-like gun Lassoo, he became a dachshund/gun hybrid.
• Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Jackal (English version: Mutt-Mutt Fruit: Jackal Strike/Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Jackal/Mutt-Mutt Fruit: Jackal Model) - Allows the user to become a full jackal or a half-jackal hybrid. Eaten by Chaka.
• Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Wolf (English version: Mutt-Mutt Fruit: Wolf Model/Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Wolf) - Allows the user to become a full wolf or a half-wolf hybrid similar to a werewolf. Eaten by Jabra.
• Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Tanuki - Allows the user to become a full tanuki or a half-tanuki hybrid. In the case of Tenguyama Hitetsu's teapot Bunbuku, he becomes a tanuki/teapot hybrid.
• Inu Inu no Mi, Model: Kyubi no Kitsune (English version: Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Nine Tailed Fox) - Allows the user to become a full nine-tailed fox or a half-nine-tailed fox hybrid, and allows the user to become perfect clones of other people. Eaten by Catarina Devon.

Neko Neko no Mi (Cat) series

• Neko Neko no Mi, Model: Leopard (English version: Cat-Cat Fruit, Model: Leopard) - Allows the user to become a full leopard or a half-leopard hybrid. Eaten by Rob Lucci.

Zou Zou no Mi (Elephant) series

• Zou Zou no Mi (English version: Elephant-Elephant Fruit/Eleph-Eleph Fruit) - Allows the user to become a full elephant or a half-elephant hybrid. In the case of Spandam's sword Funkfreed, he becomes an elephant/sword hybrid.
• Zou Zou no Mi, Model: Mammoth (English version: Elephant-Elephant Fruit, Model: Mammoth) - Allows the user to become a full mammoth or a half-mammoth hybrid. Eaten by Jack.

Ryu Ryu no Mi (Dragon) series

• Ryu Ryu no Mi, Model: Allosaurus (English version: Dragon-Dragon Fruit, Model: Allosaurus) - Allows the user to become a full Allosaurus or a half-Allosaurus hybrid. Eaten by X Drake.
• Ryu Ryu no Mi, Model: Spinosaurus (English version: Dragon-Dragon Fruit, Model: Spinosaurus) - Allows the user to become a full Spinosaurus or a half-Spinosaurus hybrid. Eaten by Page One.
• Ryu Ryu no Mi, Model: Pteranodon (English version: Dragon-Dragon Fruit, Model: Pteranodon) - Allows the user to become a full Pteranodon or a half-Pteranodon hybrid. Eaten by King.
• Ryu Ryu no Mi, Model: Brachiosaurus (English version: Dragon-Dragon Fruit, Model: Brachiosaurus) - Allows the user to become a full Brachiosaurus or a half-Brachiosaurus hybrid. Eaten by Queen.

Hebi Hebi no Mi (Snake) series

• Hebi Hebi no Mi, Model: King Cobra (English version: Snake-Snake Fruit, Model: King Cobra) - Allows the user to become a full king cobra or a half-king cobra hybrid. Eaten by Boa Marigold.
• Hebi Hebi no Mi, Model: Anaconda (English version: Snake-Snake Fruit, Model: Anaconda) - Allows the user to become a full anaconda or a half-anaconda hybrid. Eaten by Boa Sandersonia.
• Hebi Hebi no Mi, Model: Yamata no Orochi (English version: Snake-Snake Fruit, Model: Yamata-no-Orochi) - Allows the user to become a full Yamata no Orochi or a half-Yamata no Orochi hybrid. Eaten by Kurozumi Orochi.

Sara Sara no Mi (Salamander) series

• Sara Sara no Mi, Model: Axolotl (English version: Sala-Sala Fruit, Model: Axolotl) - Allows the user to become a full axolotl or a half-axolotl hybrid. In the case of Caesar Clown's slime Smiley, it became an axolotl/slime hybrid until it's death.

Mushi Mushi no Mi (Bug) series

• Mushi Mushi no Mi, Model: Kabutomushi (English version: Bug-Bug Fruit, Model: Rhinoceros Beetle) - Allows the user to become a full rhinoceros beetle or a half-rhinoceros beetle hybrid. The user can also fly in either form. Eaten by Kabu.
• Mushi Mushi no Mi, Model: Suzumebachi (English version: Bug-Bug Fruit, Model: Hornet) - Allows the user to become a full hornet or a half-hornet hybrid. The user can also fly in either form. Eaten by Bian.

Single model series

• Mogu Mogu no Mi (English version: Diggy-Diggy Fruit/Mole-Mole Fruit) - Allows the user to become a full mole or a half-mole hybrid. The user can also dig underground. Eaten by Drophy.
• Uma Uma no Mi (English version: Horse-Horse Fruit) - Allows the user to become a full horse or a half-horse hybrid. In the case of Gan Fall's pet bird Pierre, he resembles a Pegasus.
• Kame Kame no Mi (English version: Turtle-Turtle Fruit) - Allows the user to become a full turtle or a half-turtle hybrid. In the case of Pekoms, he resembles a Tarasque

Unnamed Fruits

This section lists the Zoan Devil Fruits that haven't been identified yet.

• Minotaurus' fruit which allows him to take the form of a Holstein cow.
• Minokoala's fruit which allows him to take the form of a koala.
• Minorhinoceros' fruit which allows him to take the form of a rhinoceros.
• Minozebra's fruit which allows him to take the form of a zebra.
• Onigumo's fruit that lets him sprout spider-like arms from his back as well as grow a spider's abdomen.
• Dalmatian's fruit which allows him to turn into a dalmatian.
• Epoida's fruit which allows him to turn into a caterpillar.
• Minochihuahua's fruit which allows him to take the form of a chihuahua.
• Kaido's fruit which allows him to transform into an eastern dragon.

logia

Logia fruits​

• Moku Moku no Mi (English Versions: Smoke-Smoke Fruit/Plume-Plume Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into smoke. Eaten by Smoker.
• Suna Suna no Mi (English Versions: Sand-Sand Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into sand. The sand can dehydrate any non-metallic substance it touches. Eaten by Crocodile.
• Mera Mera no Mi (English Versions: Flame-Flame Fruit/Flare-Flare Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into fire. Eaten by Portgas D. Ace until his death and later eaten by Sabo.
• Goro Goro no Mi (English Versions: Rumble-Rumble Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into lightning. Eaten by Enel.
• Hie Hie no Mi (English Versions: Chilly-Chilly Fruit/Ice-Ice Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into ice. Eaten by Kuzan.
• Yami Yami no Mi (English Versions: Dark-Dark Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into darkness. The darkness has strong gravitational properties and the user has an infinite amount of space inside of their elemental body. Eaten by Marshall D. Teach.
• Pika Pika no Mi (English Versions: Glint-Glint Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into light. Eaten by Borsalino.
• Magu Magu no Mi (English Versions: Mag-Mag Fruit): Allows the user to create, create, and transform into magma. Eaten by Sakazuki.
• Numa Numa no Mi (English Versions: Swamp-Swamp Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into mud. The user is a "bottomless swamp", granting them an infinite amount of space inside their elemental body. The mud can take on the properties of quicksand. Eaten by Caribou.
• Gasu Gasu no Mi (English Versions: Gas-Gas Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into gas. Eaten by Caesar Clown.
• Yuki Yuki no Mi (English Versions: Snow-Snow Fruit): Allows the user to create, control, and transform into snow. Eaten by Monet until her death.

 

[Freid]

@Hannibal Psyche There's no rule that says haki shouldn't be introduced early in the manga, but there's enough evidence to tell us that Oda chose not to. Haki has been demonstrated without a full explanation several times before being properly introduced right before the time skip. We saw Garp give Luffy the fist of love back in Water 7 to which Nami commented on by asking how Luffy got hurt by it. Now we know it was because of haki but Oda didn't explain it back then. Ace or Sabo also asked the same question when Garp gave Luffy the fist of love when they were kids in Luffy's flashback, and Oda still didn't explain it. Even mantra which we now know to be haki was assumed to be a sky island exclusive ability until Rayleigh explained it. It's clear that Oda simply didn't want to introduce haki to us in detail until it became more commonplace. Crocodile was also supposed to be beaten as Luffy's first major enemy, so revealing and defeating one of the biggest powerups the hero will get at like chapter 0 also lessens the impact of all the other upgrades he'd get before it.

Mangakas have general plans, not whole scriptures with every line and every action that's ever gonna take place in the story. Some plans are more detailed than others but stories develop and change over time. in fact, a general plan is probably better in most cases. It gives authors more flexibility and freedom in their writing, and Oda has written One Piece in such a way that he can fill in gaps in the story with information pretty seamlessly and you don't ever question it. Luffy's third brother for example even though we were led to believe that he only had one for most of the manga. Oda doesn't like to commit and go into detail about things he might later want to change. Too much planning is bad planning.

Anyway my main point is that strong people are gonna have haki at this stage of the story, whether or not they showed it before. Everyone has the potential to use it and any notable fighter is gonna have learnt it from their countless fights.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Hannibal Psyche There's no rule that says haki shouldn't be introduced early in the manga, but there's enough evidence to tell us that Oda chose not to. Haki has been demonstrated without a full explanation several times before being properly introduced right before the time skip. We saw Garp give Luffy the fist of love back in Water 7 to which Nami commented on by asking how Luffy got hurt by it. Now we know it was because of haki but Oda didn't explain it back then. Ace or Sabo also asked the same question when Garp gave Luffy the fist of love when they were kids in Luffy's flashback, and Oda still didn't explain it. Even mantra which we now know to be haki was assumed to be a sky island exclusive ability until Rayleigh explained it. It's clear that Oda simply didn't want to introduce haki to us in detail until it became more commonplace. Crocodile was also supposed to be beaten as Luffy's first major enemy, so revealing and defeating one of the biggest powerups the hero will get at like chapter 0 also lessens the impact of all the other upgrades he'd get before it.

Mangakas have general plans, not whole scriptures with every line and every action that's ever gonna take place in the story. Some plans are more detailed than others but stories develop and change over time. in fact, a general plan is probably better in most cases. It gives authors more flexibility and freedom in their writing, and Oda has written One Piece in such a way that he can fill in gaps in the story with information pretty seamlessly and you don't ever question it. Luffy's third brother for example even though we were led to believe that he only had one for most of the manga. Oda doesn't like to commit and go into detail about things he might later want to change. Too much planning is bad planning.

Anyway my main point is that strong people are gonna have haki at this stage of the story, whether or not they showed it before. Everyone has the potential to use it and any notable fighter is gonna have learnt it from their countless fights.

You can believe that all you want.

According to the one piece History, they do not.

Sabo used Haki at the age Luffy was 17.

Garp and Chnijao used it 11 years before Luffy was born.

Oda didn't even correct or hint that Croc had any Haki at either:

1. Impel down
2. Marineford

You can't dispute the One Piece chronological history.

Based on the history, if that were fact, Lucci would have had Haki too if all strong people possess it, he didn't even possess Observation Haki.

And your quotation is wrong: Everyone possesses Haki, but as hard as they may try to unlock it, they may never.

DFs suffice for those who can't unlock Haki.

 

[Freid]

History in manga can be written at any time so long as it doesn't contradict events that follow it. It doesn't mean that it was initially planned for.

In the grand scheme of things, pre time skip Lucci was trash compared to the mid to top tiers in the New World.

The people that never notice their haki are civilians, and the people that try and never make use of it are trash fodders.

 

[kkck]

As good as a devil fruit can be, it also has its weakness. When it is discovered by the enemies, then it will be a setback for the user. In times like this, if the person in question is diligent (and smart) enough to have a continual routine of physical and mental training, and other skills that he/she may possess, then there may be a possibility of overturning the weakness to strength if one knows how to utilise accurately, especially at the precise moment of life and death. Obviously there are other elements involved in a battle and winning it. But to stay on the topic of abilities and skills, we do have people who do not have the muscle, but they have good brains. Smart ones utilise everything that they have - devil fruit ability, physical strength and mental skills - to protect self and others. It is like our "street smarts" in our society.

I am a tad skeptical of the idea of a weakness behind a devil fruit. Some devil fruits do have weaknesses looking at the big picture the weakness in question is rarely crippling so to speak. Take crocodile who has a weakness to water. Water allowed luffy to do something which anyone with haki can do anyways. And even then, is being punchable a weakness suddenly? Even in that situation crocodile could still use his sand attacks. In other words, he was better off than he would be without his fruit anyways. It's sort of like saying buggy has a weakness to punches... Isn't that ridiculous? Perhaps this is a good way to look at the possibility of someone being over dependent on a fruit. If we look at the admirals, it is not impossible that their fruits have weaknesses in a manner similar to what crocodile had. But the weaknesses of those fruits wouldn't cripple them, it would merely damage them in a normal way. Say, akainu and aokiji fighting each other. The cold would negatively affect akainu in theory and the heat would negatively affect aokiji. But the end result is akainu being solid thus hittable and aokiji burning.... Even with the weakness in question they are in no way worst of than they would be without a fruit. So perhaps the over dependence on the fruit lies there, as in, truly powerful people don't fall prey to things like the weakness of a devil fruit because there is a lot more to go with their power. Even luffy would still have insane haki and physical strength if his devil fruit for some reason didn't work at all.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

History in manga can be written at any time so long as it doesn't contradict events that follow it. It doesn't mean that it was initially planned for.

In the grand scheme of things, pre time skip Lucci was trash compared to the mid to top tiers in the New World.

The people that never notice their haki are civilians, and the people that try and never make use of it are trash fodders.

It doesn't matter when it was written.

The issue now is not whether it was planned for, but why it's ignored because of Crocodile or any other character.

It's a part of the One Piece history/time-line nonetheless, we can't deny it.

Crocodile was trash compared to Lucci; Luffy didn't even need Gear 2nd or 3rd to beat him.

What you're suggesting or hoping for in this case is bad writing.

You want to believe that Oda drew a fight where the character forgot that he had Haki. That has to be the case because you seem so convinced he is a proficient Haki user despite not exercising or demonstrating it after we're aware of this powers.

It's like defeating a character who appeared to have no DF power despite a gruelling and long fight. Oda suddenly showcases the first ability, and then tells us that the character that was defeated had a DF. Isn't that literally saying this character had a DF, but simply forgot to use it? even though it cost him:

1. 20 years of planning.
2. Position as a Shichibukai.
3. and Prison.

That would surely be the epitome of bad writing. Far more reasonable to just accept and infer that this character had no DF (in Crocodile or Moriah or Lucci's case, Haki).

 

[Sakazuki]

I tend to agree with @ProGodess, this topic turned more about Haki then DF dependency.

It's natural to overuse your DF, as the power granted by it may give a upper hand, but I was think on DF users that don't use it a lot on battles. And the only name that come in my mind was pre-timeskip Brook.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I tend to agree with @ProGodess, this topic turned more about Haki then DF dependency.

It's natural to overuse your DF, as the power granted by it may give a upper hand, but I was think on DF users that don't use it a lot on battles. And the only name that come in my mind was pre-timeskip Brook.

They're somewhat interrelated, but maybe did get a bit off-topic, haha.

And as you rightly said, it's naturally to use one's DF, in essence, there's no such thing as over-using a DF.

All DF users make use of their abilities, the issue just lies where a DF user simply becomes useless once their ability is taken away from them, and that's what van Augur was referring to.

 

[Freid]

@Hannibal Psyche

Because writing history isn't time travelling. Just because Oda wrote some history about a time where haki existed before Crocodile's intro, doesn't mean he planned it at the time of writing him. That's why I couldn't really care less if Oda showed random-pirate78 using haki in a flashback. The real time order of events is more reflective of how abilities and powers develop over time. Flashbacks can be shoehorned in at any point in the story and will work as long as it's consistent with the real time events that follow. If they aren't consistent then you get your plot-holes, ala Tobi-Madara.

I feel better knowing that Lucci would have gotten roflstomped in the New World while Crocodile made a name for himself there.....

Nope, what I'm suggesting is that haki wasn't a thing back then....Bad writing or whatever you wonna call it, fact is that Oda isn't infallible. Retcons happen and while sometimes they can be a bad thing, other times they work.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Hannibal Psyche

Because writing history isn't time travelling. Just because Oda wrote some history about a time where haki existed before Crocodile's intro, doesn't mean he knew about it at the time of writing him.

1. Why didn't Oda show Crocodile with any form of Haki despite revealing both Observation Haki and Armament Haki prior to Impel Down?
2. Why does Oda show Jozu using Haki to hit Crocodile, and despite the use of Haki in Marineford, Crocodile still exhibits none?
3. Entire Marineford arc is full of Haki usage, yet, Crocodile isn't included as one of the users.
4. Luffy even uses Observation Haki in Marineford, yet, Crocodile still doesn't exhibit any skill in it.

You're simply in denial at this point. If Oda felt the need to correct this, he'd simply have done so, but didn't. In fact, how do you know Oda made a mistake, where did he officially state this to be the case?

Also, in a story, history isn't time-travelling, it's history.

You reject the One Piece time-line/history simply because it doesn't suit your presupposition.

It's not like there's any contradiction or plot-holes to begin with which questions your poor stance here.

Your entire argument is, there's no way Crocodile can't not be a Haki user. Why can't Oda simply chose to not make Crocodile a Haki user despite saying some people will never obtain it no matter how hard they work towards it?

Like I said before, your argument is not based on rational argument, but simply overrating a Character who Oda even after explicit revelation of Haki still didn't give Crocodile this ability.

 

[Freid]

Logias with haki usually still attack primarily with their devil fruit abilities. In all of the war, the Admirals who are known haki users only visibly used their haki to stop WB's earthquake. Sabo is an exception since he'd only recently obtained his power. Likelihood is that we'll see more use of his ability in the future. We also don't know how haki cooperates with elemental powers, whether it can be imbued or not and to what extent.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Logias with haki usually still attack primarily with their devil fruit abilities. In all of the war, the Admirals who are known haki users only visibly used their haki to stop WB's earthquake. Sabo is an exception since he'd only recently obtained his power. Likelihood is that we'll see more use of his ability in the future. We also don't know how haki cooperates with elemental powers, whether it can be imbued or not and to what extent.

That is a topic that I covered in the first post here, if this is a topic of interest, we can have it discussed here: https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/ability-affinity-with-armament-haki-awakening.3000510/

 

[Sakazuki]

1. Why didn't Oda show Crocodile with any form of Haki despite revealing both Observation Haki and Armament Haki prior to Impel Down?
2. Why does Oda show Jozu using Haki to hit Crocodile, and despite the use of Haki in Marineford, Crocodile still exhibits none?
3. Entire Marineford arc is full of Haki usage, yet, Crocodile isn't included as one of the users.
4. Luffy even uses Observation Haki in Marineford, yet, Crocodile still doesn't exhibit any skill in it.

You're simply in denial at this point. If Oda felt the need to correct this, he'd simply have done so, but didn't. In fact, how do you know Oda made a mistake, where did he officially state this to be the case?

Also, in a story, history isn't time-travelling, it's history.

You reject the One Piece time-line/history simply because it doesn't suit your presupposition.

It's not like there's any contradiction or plot-holes to begin with which questions your poor stance here.

Your entire argument is, there's no way Crocodile can't not be a Haki user. Why can't Oda simply chose to not make Crocodile a Haki user despite saying some people will never obtain it no matter how hard they work towards it?

Like I said before, your argument is not based on rational argument, but simply overrating a Character who Oda even after explicit revelation of Haki still didn't give Crocodile this ability.

1 Because Crocodile was fought by ch 200, Observation Haki was introduced as matra by 250 and if you count Garp hurting Luffy as Armament haki, it will be afte 350. Years before on the real world.
2 Good point (still, I don't remember it, but will.trust you and won't check), but the same cpuld be asked why Donquixote or Mihawk used it on the war. They knew how to use.
3 No point against it.
4 Same as question 2.

It doesn't matter if Crocodile had or has haki, as it was never showed on the manga. But by the time that he was the main villain, no haki was introduced by the series. There are few hints that Oda already had something on his mind about it, but nothing that we could relate by that time (or anyone related Garp hurting Luffy with mantra or Shanks saving Luffy with one stare?).

And one point aboyt Crocodile: do not uderstimate him. I don't remember Enel, Lucci and Moriah putting Luffy's life at bay as he did. Just Mangellan, Akainu and Doflamingo (Luffy had to be saved) did it after him.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

1 Because Crocodile was fought by ch 200, Observation Haki was introduced as matra by 250 and if you count Garp hurting Luffy as Armament haki, it will be afte 350. Years before on the real world.
2 Good point (still, I don't remember it, but will.trust you and won't check), but the same cpuld be asked why Donquixote or Mihawk used it on the war. They knew how to use.
3 No point against it.
4 Same as question 2.

It doesn't matter if Crocodile had or has haki, as it was never showed on the manga. But by the time that he was the main villain, no haki was introduced by the series. There are few hints that Oda already had something on his mind about it, but nothing that we could relate by that time (or anyone related Garp hurting Luffy with mantra or Shanks saving Luffy with one stare?).

And one point aboyt Crocodile: do not uderstimate him. I don't remember Enel, Lucci and Moriah putting Luffy's life at bay as he did. Just Mangellan, Akainu and Doflamingo (Luffy had to be saved) did it after him.

Okay, answer this.

Crocodile's can be hit if doused by water.

Smoker is a Logia who was introduced in the first 100 chapters.

What element can make Smoke become solid like Sand does when wet?

 

[Sakazuki]

Okay, answer this.

Crocodile's can be hit if doused by water.

Smoker is a Logia who was introduced in the first 100 chapters.

What element can make Smoke become solid like Sand does when wet?

I don't know, because this is a manga, and doesn't apply ou real world logic. It's up tp the author define it (magma is stronguer than fire, but one is a geolical element, while one is related to physics; ice is stronguer than snow, while those two concepts are related to the same matter).

A smoke power is really abstract, as we don't know from where this smoke came from. But it came from kind of matter, so Oda can define that the liquid state or solid state can be stronguer. Or not.

An article about it, chemistry is not my subject, but I had to study a little about it:

https://googleweblight.com/?lite_ur...483852&sig=AKOVD65byn7adGxtaEzyK1Tjhl8uYT1m1A

Also, another point: could be that the Gasu Gasu no Mi can relate to the Smoke.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't know, because this is a manga, and doesn't apply ou real world logic. It's up tp the author define it (magma is stronguer than fire, but one is a geolical element, while one is related to physics; ice is stronguer than snow, while those two concepts are related to the same matter).

A smoke power is really abstract, as we don't know from where this smoke came from. But it came from kind of matter, so Oda can define that the liquid state or solid state can be stronguer. Or not.

An article about it, chemistry is not my subject, but I had to study a little about it:

https://googleweblight.com/?lite_ur...483852&sig=AKOVD65byn7adGxtaEzyK1Tjhl8uYT1m1A

Also, another point: could be that the Gasu Gasu no Mi can relate to the Smoke.

The science is consistent.

Water is solidified by sand.

Magma is a semi-fluid, therefore, it's like putting water or mud over fire, it smothers and puts fire out.

Smoke is a gas with miniscule ash particles, therefore, there's no weakness.

Even if we assume the Gas Gas can affect Smoker, Luffy cannot cover his fists in gas in order to hurt Smoker, can he?

Why would Oda create a Logia that has no natural weakness? It makes no sense because it'd mean Smoker can never be defeated.

Unless Oda had already planned to introduce Haki, there's no way he could have introduced a Logia like Smoker so early on in the series.

We have to also remember that the future, present, and past that we're shown in One Piece is all related. We can't just accept some parts of history, and ignore some, all needs to be accepted. The history tells us Haki was a thing.

Also, remember, in a story, we always learn things from the past:

• Why a character has a scar in their face? we learn from the past?
• Why Sanji knows about all blue? the past.
• Why Zoro wants to be the strongest Swordsman? the past.
• Why Chinjao's drill broke? the past.

We ought to accept the past that Oda presented us, he's the one who writes it after-all, isn't he?

And one point aboyt Crocodile: do not uderstimate him. I don't remember Enel, Lucci and Moriah putting Luffy's life at bay as he did. Just Mangellan, Akainu and Doflamingo (Luffy had to be saved) did it after him.

I believe Crocodile is powerful, but mostly due to his ability. We've learned that people without Haki and DF abilities (like Luffy pre-timeskip) can defeat Haki users e.g. Monet vs Tashigi.

Crocodile didn't push Luffy much more than Lucci, Lucci required Luffy to defeat him with Gear 2nd and 3rd, Crocodile was defeated with no Gears.

Have to also remember that with every arc, Luffy doesn't fight weaker opponents, he fights stronger opponents. Do you think Captain Kuro is stronger than Don Krieg? or Krieg stronger than Arlong? or Arlong stronger than Crocodile? So, it's safe to assume that both Enel and Lucci are superior opponents to Crocodile.

Bare in mind that pre-timeskip, even Lucci who is stronger than Crocodile would have lost to Crocodile if he fought with Lucci back then, why? because Lucci didn't have Haki at the time, and might not be aware that blood/water can be used to fight against Crocodile.

 

[Sakazuki]

Oh Lord.

Sand is already solid, as fragment of rocks.

Magma is a semi fluid? Right! But a semi fluid from what and what makes it a semi fluid? Answer: magma is molten rock, and the reason it is molten is heat, a kind of energy that we can find on fire. The manga doesn't says that smothers the fire. Says that it's stronguer, and by what o saw on google, there is no science backgrpund for this afirmation. Still, this is a manga, and not everything must work according tp our world.

Every new villain will be a new threat to Luffy, with new challenges. Today Luffy would destroy Crocodile, as most logias wont be a challenge with haki.

But I can't see Lucci or Moriah been a bigger challenge then Crocodile. Luffy could have a gear 3 against Crocodile, if he can touch him, it would be useless.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Oh Lord.

Sand is already solid, as fragment of rocks.

Magma is a semi fluid? Right! But a semi fluid from what and what makes it a semi fluid? Answer: magma is molten rock, and the reason it is molten is heat, a kind of energy that we can find on fire. The manga doesn't says that smothers the fire. Says that it's stronguer, and by what o saw on google, there is no science backgrpund for this afirmation. Still, this is a manga, and not everything must work according tp our world.

Every new villain will be a new threat to Luffy, with new challenges. Today Luffy would destroy Crocodile, as most logias wont be a challenge with haki.

But I can't see Lucci or Moriah been a bigger challenge then Crocodile. Luffy could have a gear 3 against Crocodile, if he can touch him, it would be useless.

You're arguing semantic here.

Crocodile is not a Rock-man, he's a Sand-man, therefore, he's the fragmented version of Rocks. Sand may be solid, but it has no structure just like Water, or Air, therefore, it requires Haki to be attacked like it's tangible.

That's why when Luffy punches Crocodile, his fists simply go through.

The definition of a Logia is simply a fruit that makes the user intangible.

You answer your own question with your question, they keyword from Magma is "Molten" rock, more or less partly fluid. The thick fluid is capable of putting a flame out.

Magma does smother fire, that's the only way it can put out Fire, no one who does science can deny that. It would be no different to putting mud on fire, it'd smother the fire off oxygen, and therefore render the fire obsolete.

It's really not the case that Magma is superior to Fire in the sense that it burns hotter, Fire can burn hotter than Magma, irregardless, once it's deprived off oxygen by something that's part liquid, it ceases to be able to burn due to lack of oxygen - it's impossible for combustion to occur without oxygen - Ace is Fire. That is simply the reason Akainu was able to burn Ace, not necessarily because he was stronger, a matter of DF superiority similar to Electricity being incapable of conducting through Rubber.

You don't need to see Lucci or Moriah being greater challenges than Crocodile, the fact is:

• Crocodile was defeated without the need of Gear 2nd or 3rd.

Your rationale here would be like saying that Joker is inferior to Crocodile despite Joker needing to be defeated by Gear 4th, and Crocodile with no Gears.

And what do you mean if Luffy can touch him?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Crocodile is not a Rock-man, he's a Sand-man, therefore, he's the fragmented version of Rocks.

Well... with what size is a rock no more a rock?... Because you can even split some sandgrains...

The definition of a Logia is simply a fruit that makes the user intangible.

Tell that Blackbeard.

And gosh. I read the entire thread and i am proud of your patience guys. I dont even want to discuss this matter but i am also on the side: Haki wasnt meant to show until very late in the manga. We even got a clue that a pre-haki was introduced with Zoro cutting down Mr.1 because of hearing his pulse. There is no real "willpower" in there, that just changed later on.

But back to topic. I even think was Ace was over-depented on his devilfruit, but why shouldnt he? Against 95% of possible opponents just being Logia is a win. And being member of the strongest piratecrew in the world at this time didnt make him improve much more. If you struggle for surviving and are fighting close fights here and there you get stronger in Shounen, if you dont have real fights... things get messy. I bet Enel wasnt hit for atleast a decade from anything, how should he have aquired a high durability? Same with Croc. Luffy, Zorro, Sanji take a beating quite often and are monsters in taking damage.

And with some abilities you dont even need to be extremly powerful without it, because even haki cant cancel it out. Magellan was shown to be a perfect example.

Its quite like Skyrim... if you avoid all... you dont get to level your armorskills. If you magicmissile everything... your weaponskills are low. Learning by doing.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well... with what size is a rock no more a rock?... Because you can even split some sandgrains...

Nonetheless, sand isn't a rigid structure, therefore, it's intangible. It's not like he's a grain of sand, he's a multitude of sand, therefore, no structure. Sand granules slide over each other, they're not stuck in a certain shape or form, so not really sure why need you had to point out the obvious,.Something being physical is not the same thing as being a solid structure. The very fact you need to talk about splitting a sand grain implies we're not dealing with solid structures. Water is physical for example, at some level, it could probably be split, it doesn't exactly make it solid, would be like trying to make the excuse that mud/snow is not a Logia ability just because it's physical.

​

Blackbeard is a Logia nonetheless, the only difference is, he absorbs pain, therefore, intangibility has no relevance or purpose. The point of intangibility after-all is to avoid pain isn't it?

But back to topic. I even think was Ace was over-depented on his devilfruit, but why shouldnt he? Against 95% of possible opponents just being Logia is a win. And being member of the strongest piratecrew in the world at this time didnt make him improve much more. If you struggle for surviving and are fighting close fights here and there you get stronger in Shounen, if you dont have real fights... things get messy. I bet Enel wasnt hit for atleast a decade from anything, how should he have aquired a high durability? Same with Croc. Luffy, Zorro, Sanji take a beating quite often and are monsters in taking damage.

What is important is what the characters have stated, not your dismissive opinion of what a character has said because you disagree with it.

We don't learn about this Manga through your own opinions, but through the characters. Our opinions therefore, should be consistent and built/based around the Manga's opinion, facts and assessments - the character's words are in essence, Oda's words. So, Oda has given us a context by which to think and understand.

If everyone's opinion had no relation to what the Manga/Oda had stated, then there wouldn't be possibility to remotely discuss. I could just make up my own rules and claim them gospel which is what you're essentially doing by claiming Ace to be over-dependent.

​

A Logia can choose when to be intangible, and when not to be; he could easily have trained his body to withstand powerful blows like the Admirals do. Enel not getting hit for this decade that you somehow plucked out of thin air would still be irrelevant. He's not forced into being intangible, he can become tangible and train.

​

If we use the excuse that Enel was a Logia for decades and was subsequently unable to train, Kizaru has been a Logia for at least 16-28 years, and he was a Vice-Admiral back then. Being a Logia didn't stop Kizaru from becoming an Admiral, so Enel really could have trained.

Enel wields a staff/trident - it means he could have picked up weights like Zoro did to train his strength, or whatever was necessary.

Van Augur explicitly unlike most DF users, Ace's not overly dependent on his Devil fruit. That even being said, Over-dependence is simply poor physical ability to fight outside of DF power which implies a poorly trained body too:

• The ability to tank a hit is not DF based, it's dependent on one's own durability.
• Not only is it dependent on durability, but strength of the user's body.

Basic fighting parameters.

Even if Kizaru, Aokiji or Akainu had their abilities rendered ineffective, they'd still be strong, sturdy and durable opponents; Enel wasn't, therefore, he's overly dependent on his ability. Just because he has a Logia ability doesn't mean he can't train his strength and durability. Or, the likes of Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu who were Admirals decades ago, would be fodder today.

​

Enel wouldn't rule the Grand Line as Oda stated in SBS voume 43, but Ace had the potential to do so because he was powerful even without his DF like van Augur said, but Sengoku even recognized the superior strength he possessed.

Spoiler

There's also no need to slander me needlessly, one can be respectful even in disagreement, no?

 

[Sakazuki]

@Hannibal Psyche, I just remembeted one thing: prior to dressrosa arc, we never saw Garp using haki as we see it today (with a limb darker) abde we saw it only in a flashback. Yes Garp already wad caplable of hurting Luffy's rubber body, but by that time, we thought that it was his (Garp) sheer force. So, can you explain it?