Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

  • Total voters
    93

Char

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I don't think I would classify Ikatsunagi as Spriggan level overall, but his durability at the very least is Spriggan level. A nakama filled charged up punch from base Natsu didn't faze him while Jacob and Ajeel both were shown to have taken some degree of damage from a base Natsu punch. I kinda feel like Ikatsunagi is slept on by people because he got one shot by an FDK demolition fist. I'm not saying that you underrate him (cuz I know that you're too fair to underate a character ;)), I just think that people unfairly regard him as a weakling.
I see your point. I don't generally underrate or downplay characters. I usually try to squeeze the positive out of every chracacter. But if you analyze the sitaution, you'll see that Jacob's durability has been claimed to be low, and he was still KOed (but not injured) after FDKM mode + FKDM punch; whereas Ikatsunagi was completely broken by base mode + FDKM punch, which puts Jacob's durability much above Ikatsunagi's. Also, Jacob didn't take any damage from base Natsu's punch. I recall the cqc battle unfavorable for the FT party, Jacob was withstanding everything they shot at him. Ajeel did though, even though they were mild scratches and were probably for the plot sake. So I don't think Ikatsunagi's durability is even borderline Spriggan tier. GoI at best!

Ikatsunagi is big and slow, and not too durable. It's a depowered (maybe?) version of Tartaros CSK. He may have spriggan level DC but that's as far as he goes.
 

sharkai

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Fixed for ya :3c
Mary Sue!
hmm that should also work :hmm
but then what would happen to other big mary sues of fairy tail
laxus and natsu
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
So by your logic, you're saying that if you are stronger then you will win? Obviously "who is stronger?" and "who will win?" are different questions you can win even you're not stronger than your opponent depends on the type of magic that you have, skills, and strategic ability. Erza is a swordswoman, what can a sword do to sand? Clearly we saw Ajeel to be vulnerable to water so can assume that Juvia can put a better fight against him than Erza did, so does that mean Juvia is stronger than Erza?? NO, obviously Erza>>>>>Juvia and also Ajeel>>>>>>Juvia but Juvia has the potential to beat Ajeel even she's not stronger than him. It's just because of the type of magic that she has.
it had been clearly repeated again and again that erza was a bad matchup for ajeel here.
I mean she could actually hurt him with her water sword. can you imagine a bigger advantage than that :eek:
 

Woodenstool

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August has been stated to know pretty much every type of magic, so your baseless assumption that all he can do is use fire magic is completely absurd. The same can be said of Irene, she's shown that she can use different spells and it's just silly to assume that her only offensive magic is a fireball.

Yea sure Gildarts survived Acnologia but he lost half his limbs in the process. Nice durability he's got there.

Your only proof that you've provided for Gildarts being able to throw casual mountain busting punches is the silent chapter with Natsu, where he was clearly being serious (you can easily tell by his facial expression, he had veins popping out and shit) and we don't even know if that area he destroyed was even the whole mountain.

Gildarts using Crash to disassemble any spell is complete bullshit. As far as I recall the only spell we've ever seen him disassemble was Natsu's roar, which is a spell that has a physical form. There are plenty of types of magic that don't have physical forms, like Brandish's size manipulation magic, Mest's memory manipulation magic, Dimaria's time magic, etc. To claim that Gildarts can just neutralize literally any type of magic that is used against him with Crash is completely ridiculous.
Brandish has no speed feats, her only speed feat was dodging a card thrown by Cana. It's doesn't matter if Gildarts does the same thing to Byro to Brandish.

Gildarts has casual mountain busting punches, after he busted the mountain, his facial expression was fine and wasn't even sweating. Natsu would've been sweating and probably pass out if trying to level a mountain.

Crash destroyed a mountain so to say he can't cancel a roar that not even close to a size of a mountain is not a valid counter argument.

"We don't know if he destroyed it all"

I totally forgot about Dimaria but she got blitz but Wendy by the start of the fight. She would get stomped if Gildarts was in that position.
 
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~Charging Lightning~

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^I haven't been paying attention to what you're arguing about, but using anime feats on this manga website is not the way to go mate.

I see your point. I don't generally underrate or downplay characters. I usually try to squeeze the positive out of every chracacter. But if you analyze the sitaution, you'll see that Jacob's durability has been claimed to be low, and he was still KOed (but not injured) after FDKM mode + FKDM punch; whereas Ikatsunagi was completely broken by base mode + FDKM punch, which puts Jacob's durability much above Ikatsunagi's. Also, Jacob didn't take any damage from base Natsu's punch. I recall the cqc battle unfavorable for the FT party, Jacob was withstanding everything they shot at him. Ajeel did though, even though they were mild scratches and were probably for the plot sake. So I don't think Ikatsunagi's durability is even borderline Spriggan tier. GoI at best!

Ikatsunagi is big and slow, and not too durable. It's a depowered (maybe?) version of Tartaros CSK. He may have spriggan level DC but that's as far as he goes.
Gonna have to respectfully disagree with you here:


Ikatsunagi received a much heavier hit than Jacob did on his head but barely flinched while Jacob obviously felt some degree of pain from Natsu's lighter punch. That alone tells me that Ikatsunagi's durability is at the very least above Jacob's. Even if Jacob has low durability compared to most of the other Spriggan, that doesn't mean that we can't consider someone who has better durability than he does to have Spriggan level durability. At the end of the day, Jacob is still a Spriggan.

Plot sake isn't a great argument for why Ajeel got sent flying by Natsu tbh. I know that both Ajeel and Jacob took little damage from those punches, but the point I'm making here is that both of them were affected by light punches while Ikatsunagi wasn't affected by a heavy punch.
Mary Sue!
hmm that should also work :hmm
but then what would happen to other big mary sues of fairy tail
laxus and natsu
Bro, Laxus and even Natsu can't compare with the "she's Erza" feat in the slightest. Trust me, Erza being called a Mary Sue is much better than calling her Sakura of all people.
 

Char

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@~Charging Lightning~ I guess you've got a point. However... the reason why Jacob or Ajeel were sent flying after a base mode punch from Natsu was because they're human (their mass is low therefore they are sent flying) whereas Ikatsunagi was thousands of times heavier so it was harder to send him flying. Also Ikatsunagi's face seems immutable, so it's hard to know if he received any damage, some damage or a lot of damage from that punch; whereas Jacob may've exaggerated his reaction, because in this case:


you can clearly see after being kicked with a lot of strength and flames, Jacob was completely harmless.

Also, after the page you posted


Jacob is also seemingly harmless and scratchless.

Leo actually punched Jacob and you could say he harmed him, but again, he was pretty much scratchless, which leads me to think Jacob was receiving little damage from Natsu and Lucy, if at all (I think you can see some scratch in his face, but it may be his beard).

However, everything I've mentioned so far is unimportant. Now take a look at this:


As you can see, after this punch, Jacob was still in one piece as you can appreciate here:


and, as a matter of fact, a day later (was it a day? maybe more? less? don't know, but let's say a day) look at Jacob:


safe and sound, is he not? A couple of band-aids but that's about it.

And that was FDKM mode (x2 multiplier) + FDKM punch (1000 damage, to say something) = 2000 damage.

Now, here you have Natsu wrecking IKatsunagi in base form:


He killed it, but actually, he broke it, he tore it apart! It was base natsu (x1) + FDKM punch = 1000 damage (?).

Jacob probably got 2x the damage Ikatsunagi received and it took 1 day for Jacob to 100% recover whereas Ikatsunagi was wrecked...

So, if you ask me, Ikatsunagi is not too durable.
 

Kay3795

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@~Charging Lightning~ I guess you've got a point. However... the reason why Jacob or Ajeel were sent flying after a base mode punch from Natsu was because they're human (their mass is low therefore they are sent flying) whereas Ikatsunagi was thousands of times heavier so it was harder to send him flying. Also Ikatsunagi's face seems immutable, so it's hard to know if he received any damage, some damage or a lot of damage from that punch; whereas Jacob may've exaggerated his reaction, because in this case:


you can clearly see after being kicked with a lot of strength and flames, Jacob was completely harmless.

Also, after the page you posted


Jacob is also seemingly harmless and scratchless.

Leo actually punched Jacob and you could say he harmed him, but again, he was pretty much scratchless, which leads me to think Jacob was receiving little damage from Natsu and Lucy, if at all (I think you can see some scratch in his face, but it may be his beard).

However, everything I've mentioned so far is unimportant. Now take a look at this:


As you can see, after this punch, Jacob was still in one piece as you can appreciate here:


and, as a matter of fact, a day later (was it a day? maybe more? less? don't know, but let's say a day) look at Jacob:


safe and sound, is he not? A couple of band-aids but that's about it.

And that was FDKM mode (x2 multiplier) + FDKM punch (1000 damage, to say something) = 2000 damage.

Now, here you have Natsu wrecking IKatsunagi in base form:


He killed it, but actually, he broke it, he tore it apart! It was base natsu (x1) + FDKM punch = 1000 damage (?).

Jacob probably got 2x the damage Ikatsunagi received and it took 1 day for Jacob to 100% recover whereas was wrecked...

So, if you ask me, Ikatsunagi is not too durable.
1) Everything that transpired in that little building Natsu fought Jacob in automatically irrelevant as Natsu had zero desire to fight like he ought -- as he would had "wrecked the guild" as he puts it.

Wrecking shit is Natsu's most prominent style. When something isn't wrecked, especially a little construction, its not Natsu. (The same thing happened when Natsu was fighting Ajeel's second guy; but when he got serious, he gave the dude a Gildarts treatment with pure strength alone, which nearly wrecked Ajeel's ship up in the stratosphere

2) Pure Strength typically accounts for durability -- it's just how things works --- & Ikatsu's strength feat is absurdly high -- being about to obliterate 2+ mountains in the distance with a mere shockwave.

3) Natsu power is proportional to his Emotions -- Hiro literally said it & shown us lol. With Ikatsu, he was almost Kratos lvl pissed

With Jacob, not so much.
 

Hermit

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I'll make this my last post on Gray instafreezing Ajeel and why it wasn't exactly an instafreeze, but rather an attempt to stop his Golem in its tracks..
Gray freezing Ajeel and the Golem is fundamentally different from him insta freezing Goumon in Avatar. Considering in the first one he was fully intending to save Natsu and Lucy and in the second one he was just planning to escape, I think it's pretty obvious where he was more serious.
Look closely, he completely encased Goumon in ice, whereby in Alvarez, he encased the golem. Ajeel was just caught up in it since he was on top of the thing.
 

Alvarez Princess

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I'll make this my last post on Gray instafreezing Ajeel and why it wasn't exactly an instafreeze, but rather an attempt to stop his Golem in its tracks..
Gray freezing Ajeel and the Golem is fundamentally different from him insta freezing Goumon in Avatar. Considering in the first one he was fully intending to save Natsu and Lucy and in the second one he was just planning to escape, I think it's pretty obvious where he was more serious.
Look closely, he completely encased Goumon in ice, whereby in Alvarez, he encased the golem. Ajeel was just caught up in it since he was on top of the thing.
I agree, I don't think Gray was attempting to freeze Ajeel himself, but mostly the sand golems of which Ajeel was part of in the vicinity, since he wanted to distract them enough for him to make his and his team's escape..
 

~Charging Lightning~

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@~Charging Lightning~ I guess you've got a point. However... the reason why Jacob or Ajeel were sent flying after a base mode punch from Natsu was because they're human (their mass is low therefore they are sent flying) whereas Ikatsunagi was thousands of times heavier so it was harder to send him flying. Also Ikatsunagi's face seems immutable, so it's hard to know if he received any damage, some damage or a lot of damage from that punch; whereas Jacob may've exaggerated his reaction, because in this case:
This isn't just about whether or not Ikatsnuagi got sent flying. Yes, he weighs much more than Ajeel and Jacob, but my point was to show any indication of being damaged in the slightest. Yes, Ikatsunagi has been shown to be in pain before. When Natsu finished him off with the Demolition fist Ikatsunagi's mouth was wide open in pain:

you can clearly see after being kicked with a lot of strength and flames, Jacob was completely harmless.
Jacob blocked the kick, so of course he isn't going to be as damaged as when he took Natsu's punch to the gut.

Also, after the page you posted


Jacob is also seemingly harmless and scratchless.
I'm not denying that Jacob took very little damage from the punch. I actually already brought this up in my previous post. The point is that he was still affected despite him recovering quickly.

Leo actually punched Jacob and you could say he harmed him, but again, he was pretty much scratchless, which leads me to think Jacob was receiving little damage from Natsu and Lucy, if at all (I think you can see some scratch in his face, but it may be his beard).

However, everything I've mentioned so far is unimportant. Now take a look at this:


As you can see, after this punch, Jacob was still in one piece as you can appreciate here:


and, as a matter of fact, a day later (was it a day? maybe more? less? don't know, but let's say a day) look at Jacob:


safe and sound, is he not? A couple of band-aids but that's about it.

And that was FDKM mode (x2 multiplier) + FDKM punch (1000 damage, to say something) = 2000 damage.

Now, here you have Natsu wrecking IKatsunagi in base form:


He killed it, but actually, he broke it, he tore it apart! It was base natsu (x1) + FDKM punch = 1000 damage (?).

Jacob probably got 2x the damage Ikatsunagi received and it took 1 day for Jacob to 100% recover whereas Ikatsunagi was wrecked...

So, if you ask me, Ikatsunagi is not too durable.
You bring up a great point here. However, compare the amount of firepower Natsu put into both punches:


Do you see where I'm going with this? Natsu had all the time in the world to power up his demolition fist vs Ikatsunagi since he was standing comfortably on his head. Against Jacob, Natsu had to power up quickly because both of them had a limited time in the air. Because he had more time to power up vs Ikatsunagi, the difference in firepower between the two punches is humongous.

Conclusion: If Natsu used the same amount of firepower he used against Ikatsunagi on Jacob then let's just say that he might not be acting so high and mighty with his buddy Ajeel atm and Neinheart may have had to bring back another Spriggan.

Edit: I forgot to mention this, but you said that the damage was worse for Jacob because Natsu entered BDKM while he didn't vs Ikatsunagi. I'm gonna have to disagree with this notion completely. Just because Natsu didn't scream "Blaze Dragon King Mode" doesn't mean that his Demolition fist was weaker. There have been multiple instances where Natsu uses LFD spells without screaming "Lightning Flame Dragon Mode". Natsu screaming the name of the modes is for dramatic purposes only. An FDK Demolition fist is still a FDK Demolition Fist.
 
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Boomburst

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Brandish has no speed feats, her only speed feat was dodging a card thrown by Cana. It's doesn't matter if Gildarts does the same thing to Byro to Brandish.

Gildarts has casual mountain busting punches, after he busted the mountain, his facial expression was fine and wasn't even sweating. Natsu would've been sweating and probably pass out if trying to level a mountain.

Crash destroyed a mountain so to say he can't cancel a roar that not even close to a size of a mountain is not a valid counter argument.

"We don't know if he destroyed it all"

I totally forgot about Dimaria but she got blitz but Wendy by the start of the fight. She would get stomped if Gildarts was in that position.
Why does Brandish need any speed feats to beat Gildarts? All she needs is to see him and snap her fingers and he becomes the size of an ant.

I don't understand why you keep referring to his expression after the punch. Why should that hold more weight than the one he had DURING the punch? And if you go read the manga, you'll see that after he punches the mountain, he takes a breath because he is calming himself down and only then is he "casual".

And who says Natsu would pass out trying to destroy a mountain? He split Ikatsunagi down the middle with a single punch and yet you're telling me he can't even break a mountain?

It seems like you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say in regards to his Crash magic. I brought up the roar to show that Crash can only disassemble spells with physical form. Against any other type of magic it's useless.

And no, we don't know that Gildarts destroyed the whole mountain. You seem to be under the assumption that only the top half of what was shown of the area Gildarts destroyed was the mountain. I believe that the mountain takes up the entire screen, and that what we are shown is only part of it. Look at the rock formations, they're consistent throughout the entire shot no matter where you look, so it's logical to assume that the entire shot is simply just part of the mountain. We don't know how far off screen his punch extended, for all we know it barely went off screen at all.
 
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Arjuna

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Natsu's Demolition Fist against Jacob was calculated to be around 200 Megatonnes while that in his base state was much lesser.My personal belief is that Jacob has super durability.After all he is a Spriggan.
 

Char

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@~Charging Lightning~ as @natsulucy said, the punch Natsu used against Jacob, whether he had less time to charge up or not, is several times stronger than the one he inflicted on Ikatsunagi. That proves Jacob has a lot of durability whereas Ikatsunagi, less than it'd be expected given his size and fearful presence.
 

Woodenstool

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@~Charging Lightning~ as @natsulucy said, the punch Natsu used against Jacob, whether he had less time to charge up or not, is several times stronger than the one he inflicted on Ikatsunagi. That proves Jacob has a lot of durability whereas Ikatsunagi, less than it'd be expected given his size and fearful presence.
Proof? Because the fireball above Natsu was huge compared to the one used on Jacob with his new mode.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Why does Brandish need any speed feats to beat Gildarts? All she needs is to see him and snap her fingers and he becomes the size of an ant.

I don't understand why you keep referring to his expression after the punch. Why should that hold more weight than the one he had DURING the punch? And if you go read the manga, you'll see that after he punches the mountain, he takes a breath because he is calming himself down and only then is he "casual".

And who says Natsu would pass out trying to destroy a mountain? He split Ikatsunagi down the middle with a single punch and yet you're telling me he can't even break a mountain?

It seems like you completely misunderstood what I was trying to say in regards to his Crash magic. I brought up the roar to show that Crash can only disassemble spells with physical form. Against any other type of magic it's useless.

And no, we don't know that Gildarts destroyed the whole mountain. You seem to be under the assumption that only the top half of what was shown of the area Gildarts destroyed was the mountain. I believe that the mountain takes up the entire screen, and that what we are shown is only part of it. Look at the rock formations, they're consistent throughout the entire shot no matter where you look, so it's logical to assume that the entire shot is simply just part of the mountain. We don't know how far off screen his punch extended, for all we know it barely went off screen at all.
"We don't know if he destroyed it all again"

I literally showed you proof, animated proof that he busted that mountain and you continue to say that he didnt?

Natsu would be tired out if he tried to level a mountain, Gildarts wasn't, he even still asked to fight again but Natsu backed down. Not even a drop of sweat was seen by Gildarts after he busted that mountain.

It all depends on the situation, Brandish and Dimaria could possibly destroy the competition with their magic. If Gildarts blitz Brandish or Dimaria first then it's game over, but if she strinks him or stops time and kills him then they win. If we play the rules of anime then Gildarts wins, if we go by logic, they win.

Id give this one to Brandish and Dimaria but not to August and Irene until they show time related magic which I dount Irene has as she would've stopped time when fighting Acnologia imo.

Read the manga panel of the mountain, you can see the explosion all over the place.
 

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Proof? Because the fireball above Natsu was huge compared to the one used on Jacob with his new mode.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

"We don't know if he destroyed it all again"

I literally showed you proof, animated proof that he busted that mountain and you continue to say that he didnt?

Natsu would be tired out if he tried to level a mountain, Gildarts wasn't, he even still asked to fight again but Natsu backed down. Not even a drop of sweat was seen by Gildarts after he busted that mountain.

It all depends on the situation, Brandish and Dimaria could possibly destroy the competition with their magic. If Gildarts blitz Brandish or Dimaria first then it's game over, but if she strinks him or stops time and kills him then they win. If we play the rules of anime then Gildarts wins, if we go by logic, they win.

Id give this one to Brandish and Dimaria but not to August and Irene until they show time related magic which I dount Irene has as she would've stopped time when fighting Acnologia imo.

Read the manga panel of the mountain, you can see the explosion all over the place.
Yes, he busted the mountain, I'm not denying that. What I'm denying is that he busted the WHOLE mountain. We never get to see the base of the mountain in that shot, all we see are cracks running down. There is no evidence that the cracks ran down all the way to the base, for all we know the cracks could have ended right under the shot.

Actually if you go back and look at the manga he DOES have a drop of sweat after his punch. Although im not gonna debate this too much, as it's a pretty minor detail.

Yea sure if Gildarts could blitz them then he may have a shot at winning. But can he? The strongest characters we've seen Gildarts blitz are pre time skip Natsu, the priest guy from the filler arc, and Bluenote (actually I'm not too sure on this one, I don't remember their fight all too well). All of those characters are vastly inferior to Spriggans; I highly doubt that Gildarts could blitz Dimaria and Brandish, or that even if he could that his punch would take them out. Again, feel free to correct me on the characters Gildarts has blitzed before, I haven't reread the earlier chapters in a while.

Irene and August don't need time based magic to beat Dimaria, it's called the No Limit Fallacy. You can't assume a hax has no limit simply because one hasn't been shown yet. If characters could go around using their hax on anyone regardless of how much more powerful they are then Acno would be long dead and this war wouldn't even have happened.
 

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Are we discussing if Gildarts is top 5 in the manga again? He wasn't even the strongest person in the Tenrou vs Girmore Heart let let alone top 5 in the manga :lmao
 

Char

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Proof? Because the fireball above Natsu was huge compared to the one used on Jacob with his new mode.
AoE =/= DC

Since we don't know Ikusatsunagi's durability, it's hard to say 'how hard it is' to tear him apart, as in how many megatons it takes. You can calculate how much power it takes to destroy a mountain if you know the height and the material of the mountain, because you can make calcs on height, mass, endurance/durability of the material, density and whatnot (I'm not too knowledgeable of it).

So we can't know for a fact which one of the two was more powerful. We do know, though, that Natsu was using FDKM mode which amplifies the spell by a lot more than emotions or charging up, that IS a fact. Therefore FDKM mode + FDKM punch > base mode + FDKM punch => punch used against Jacob > punch used against Ikusatsunagi => Jacob was KOed < Ikusatsunagi was torn apart => Jacob's durability >>> Ikusatsunagi's durability.

Also, why don't we leave Glidartz already until he shows back again... just a suggestion :P
 

~Charging Lightning~

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C'mon now @Char.... You're not even gonna respond to any of my points at all? You're just gonna rely on another person using calcs??

@natsulucy, I've got nothing against you and I'm not saying that you have no credibility, but I've never believed in those calcs. They aren't from Hiro himself and as such I don't think that they should be used in debates to prove a point.
 

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We don't know how Ikusatsunagi feels when Natsu punched him in base mode. We don't even know if he can feel pain. It's pretty hard to tell wounds on him because he is black and is gigantic. The only one I'm willing to place Ikusatsunagi's durability above is Bluenote, as that punch he threw was probably comparable to the roar that took him out. He might have comparable durability to Jacob, but I wouldn't go so far as to say greater. A blow that would kill Ikusatsunagi is survivable by Jacob. Equals with edge going to Jacob is where I draw the line.

Jacob's durability should be on the same level as any Spriggan whose power set doesn't enhance their physicality. He should be no weaker than Brandish, Neinhart, or Ajeel. Even base Dimaria and base God Serena. If you want to say Ikusatsunagi is more durable than Jacob, there's no reason it wouldn't be more durable than a number of Spriggans. A good idea of Jacob's reaction to a full powered base Natsu attack would have been his reaction to Makarov's punch. Would it have sent him flying? Probably. Would he have been significantly damaged by it? No. It would probably be similar to how Wahl and Laxus took each other's punches.

Either way, using FDK mode + Demolition Fist should be a greater exhaustion of magical power than simply using demolition fist in base mode. It would be one thing if the mode does nothing like the case with LFD, but entering the mode actually does something when it comes to FDK. Against Jacob specifically it evaporated the lake and caused Jacob a considerable amount of pain before the actual demolition fist even landed. Natsu would have had to use more power against Jacob than Ikusatsunagi, even if the two demolition fists were the exact same.
 
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Char

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@~Charging Lightning~ sorry if it looked like I didn't pay attention to your points, I did, it's just that your points are mainly a matter of opinion.

Your points were:
1. Ikatsunagi has shown pain before, for example, when Natsu finished him off.
My opinion: He may be showing pain or his open mouth may be an indication his face has been torn apart in pieces so his jaw was no longer joined.

2. Jacob blocked the kick, so of course he isn't going to be as damaged as when he took Natsu's punch to the gut.
My opinion: so you're mixing real durability and passive durability. If an attack takes you by surprise it's rather clear it's going to affect you more than it should. For example, it's likely that August could block most/all of Erza's attacks, but then again he got pierced by Brandish, who does not specialize in cqc (which leads me to think her strength is inferior to Erza's). So yeah, of course you've got a point but I don't see that punch in his belly and his expression of pain as an indicator that his durability is low or anything.
2.5 The point is that he was still affected despite him recovering quickly.
It's hard to account for things like that. I mean Wahl was literally destroyed by one attack from Laxus, Erza was hurting Ajeel... They're not made of diamond that's for sure (although we don't know if Natsu's attacks could destroy diamonds, maybe they could...), but what I mean... sometimes it comes down to opinion. A face of 'pain' can indicate than an attack actually hurt a lot or that he just got surprised by the fact it hit... you get my point?

3. That Natsu's punch against Ikusatsunagi had prep/charging up, so it must necessarily make it more powerful than the one against Jacob.
My opinion (and probably the truth, thanks to calcs): Although as I said in my previous post, "since we don't know Ikusatsunagi's durability, it's hard to say 'how hard it is' to tear him apart, as in how many megatons it takes", the truth is that Natsu entered a mode whose aura allowed him to literally evaporate a lake, which is a mountain busting feat. So my assumption and personal opinion is that a similar punch in a more powerful mode is necessarily going to make more damage than the same punch in base, even if that punch in base had charging up, or even if emotions played a role.
People tend to try to reason out/account for the feelings/emotions of a character in a certain point by means of his face or how many veins are shown or how frowned a character is, when in reality it is an indicator, but people convey their feelings in different ways in certain occasions. So you may claim Natsu was very pissed off when fighting Ikusa therefore he was more powerful, but Jacob was about to kill the entire guild and Lucy, and severely injured Mavis, so he must've been angry as hell too.

My overall opinion then is that indeed, emotions play a role, charging up an attack plays a role, but what plays the major role is that a superior mode is always going to outclass a previous mode. An uncharged FDKM punch is likely gonna be stronger than a charged up base punch. I'm not taking emotions into account here because whenever Natsu activates FDKM, he's probably bloodlusted.

Your opinion is that if Natsu had used his true strength against Jacob, he'd be pushing up daisies. I respect it.

On a side note, I generally don't believe in calcs, especially size calcs (to calculate the size of, say, Fiore vs shrunk Fiore), I think we try to think more than the author does when the author probably does not pay too much attention to the scale of a given attack because in his mind, x attack is superior to y. But I think calcs sometimes help give us an approximation to the author's thoughts. In this case I think it was the author intention for us to understand that the punch Natsu used against Jacob was much superior than the one he had used against Ikusatsunagi, especially due to the fact he was using a mode whose mere presence was evaporating a lake. But, again, it's hard to get exact numbers from something we don't have too much data. Only Hiro knows many questions that we try to reason out by means of calcs or logic/opinions.
 
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