Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Seven777]

Post TS Wendy used DF to defeat Ezel just like preTS Wendy. Laxus did not oneshoted Hades, they had offscreen fight. And Laxus is spriggan tier so he could win against historia of Hades (and historia is weaker than original). Spriggan 12 are strong but there were no evidence they all are on another lvl than Hades and Mard. God Serena, Dimaria are stronger indeed. Irene and August are way stronger and on another lvl. But Ajeel, Jacob, Wahl IMHO compareble to Mard and Hades.

Yes, and the fact that in the current arc Wendy has improved so immensely that she can use Dragon Force at will, without having to eat Etherion, proves that powerlevels have increased massively, if current Wendy fought preskip Wendy it would literally be a stomp, having mastered Dragon Force easily lets Wendy double or even triple her preskip strength. Also in Tartaros Wendy needed to use a Secret Art and several other attacks to defeat Ezel, while in Alvarez arc Wendy oneshot him with a mid tier attack, despite being trashed from her battle with Dimaria.

Nah, Laxus oneshot him, you can see in the panel before Laxus did it, that Hades was in perfect condition, not a scratch, the off panel portion of the fight was just Hades spamming chain magic at Laxus, while Laxus slowly worked his way closer to Hades so he could use LD Jaw.

As for evidence spriggan 12 are stronger, Mashima himself said it, thats pretty much all the evidence needed.

 

[lunamoonfang]

A ranking in the dry, maybe... change.

1 -Anceselam - If there is


2- Acnologia full Dragon =//= END

3 - Zeref ( FH) = - > > Irene DS

4 - Zeref current > = August

5 - Irene Enchantments

top 5

 

[BluePegasus]

I just wanted to say that I don't really get all the negativity that has been spoken about Larcade after his defeat. Like, is it just because he was defeated by a side character? Larcade has been referred as the third strongest Spriggan multiple times and for me his feats proofs that title. Honestly, Larcade could potentially have the most powerful magic aside of full space or time manipulation magic and magical origins. What Zeref said about Larcade being the only mage in the world that could match Acnologia is no lie, Larcade's magic should logically be able to affect him. I mean, his magic basically gives him the full manipulation over every single being who has feelings. Ofcourse, that even includes the hyped "unbeatable" ones like Acnologia, Zeref and E.N.D.

If you think about it, Larcade's magic gives him the power to basically rule over every sensitive living thing. Opponents that are affected by Pleasure loses their soul without being able to prevent it due to intense feelings; opponents that are affected by Soul of the Weaked Meal become his own puppets that'll try to murder their allies because of immense hunger; opponents that are affected by R.I.P. trade their life to an eternal sleep immediately. In a world where plot armour is nonexistent, all these spells are unavoidable. The only factor that restricts Larcade of being the most powerful mage is the untold area of affect as regards to his spells, honestly.

 

[Boomburst]

Yes, and the fact that in the current arc Wendy has improved so immensely that she can use Dragon Force at will, without having to eat Etherion, proves that powerlevels have increased massively, if current Wendy fought preskip Wendy it would literally be a stomp, having mastered Dragon Force easily lets Wendy double or even triple her preskip strength. Also in Tartaros Wendy needed to use a Secret Art and several other attacks to defeat Ezel, while in Alvarez arc Wendy oneshot him with a mid tier attack, despite being trashed from her battle with Dimaria.

Nah, Laxus oneshot him, you can see in the panel before Laxus did it, that Hades was in perfect condition, not a scratch, the off panel portion of the fight was just Hades spamming chain magic at Laxus, while Laxus slowly worked his way closer to Hades so he could use LD Jaw.

As for evidence spriggan 12 are stronger, Mashima himself said it, thats pretty much all the evidence needed.

Basically this. The power levels since the time skip have completely skyrocketed and in light of this the Spriggans shouldn't be downplayed just because they're losing to protagonists vastly stronger than they were before.

 

[lunamoonfang]

official version. Brandish does not talk about "individual"

 

[T.C.]

Erza>Irene>>Acnologia=Igneel>>>Zeref>August>>rest

 

[Static]

Erza>Irene>>Acnologia=Igneel>>>Zeref>August>>rest

Nice joke.

....Then again, Erza possesses infinite amounts of plot armor, so I wouldn't be surprised if she turned out to be the top carnivore...

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I'm going to move over here just because I think these are interesting topics to discuss despite our disagreements. Plus, I want to be considerate to those who always complain that I go off topic. Haha.

I'm willing to say that END mode is stronger than FDK overall (in that END has more curse power than Natsu has magical power), but I think the FDK attacks we've seen so far are stronger than the END mode attacks we've seen.

Hmm... That seems fair. I still think E.N.D's spells have higher attack potency though. Not only did the color of the flames change, but it left a mark on Erza's hand. The FDKM spell Natsu used on Jacob only left smoke coming off of him. But I'll admit that this isn't really solid evidence, so most of it is speculation.

Wall is a bad match for Laxus though. I think Laxus would have one or two hit Wall had he not had the immunity to lightning, provided that Wall had a similar durability to someone like Ajeel whom probably would have been heavily in by that nuke.

Well, Laxus is definitely a top-tier character. I just don't think he is the strongest. I mean his fight is hard to judge because of his disadvantages but at the same time he had a lot of advantages too.

At first, he was suffering from MBP's but then he conveniently had Justu Shiki at his disposal to fix it.

Then Wahl was immune to lightning but Laxus' Red Lightning convenientIy negated that.

The last advantage that I think Laxus had was luck. When Wahl made a miscalculation about Laxus being a Lightning Dragon Slayer, he conveniently restored Laxus' energy by using a lightning attack. Without it, Wahl could've won that fight.

Anyways, to clarify my standpoint on this matter, the reason why I don't call Laxus the strongest is because Natsu + Gray were able to perform similar feats as him despite being at a weaker form. Since Laxus has no transformation, he should lose to E.N.D and DeS Gray. Same with Gajeel.

For me, the most impressive thing for END mode was his ability to walk through Age Seal and what Brandish said about her magic being unable to effect it anymore. I find this hype to be somewhat similar to Irene enhancing Neinhart to a point where Brandish's magic wouldn't work on him. In terms of the actual fighting, we saw Natsu beat up Dimaria (and I'm assuming he dominated) but we already know Natsu can take down a Spriggan with 1 or 2 hits, so there's nothing extraordinary in terms of his performance there.

What you said here seems perfectly reasonable if you ask me. But your last sentence is where we differ just a bit. I think you are aware of the fact that I don't place all the Spriggans on the same level and this is precisely where that comes in. Natsu destroying Neinhart and Jacob was impressive (I have a few complaints about the Neinhart situation but I don't want to start a whole different debate here); however, I rank Dimaria higher in terms of durability. Therefore, E.N.D should be stronger in my mind.

I agree that END Natsu and Gray are on the same level, and generally above the average Spriggan. There's other characters I would consider on that level as well, like Laxus or Gajeel. Or even WSD Sting now that he's defeated Larcade.

Well, for me...

I put Laxus, Jellal, FDKM Natsu, Full-Power Base Gray, WSDM Sting, and DF Gajeel on the same level. Not necessarily equals but relatively close. E.N.D and DeS Gray is just a notch above in my opinion.

Gildarts for me is unknown but I do think he is up there.

---

But the thing is, if Gray only decided to go all out after Juvia's death, why wouldn't he go DeS? This is the reason why I don't really consider the Gray that stomped Invel as Base Gray, but rather Gray with a darkness powerup. Otherwise I really have no idea why Gray would decide to stay in base to avenge Juvia.

Well again, this is just my perspective so I don't expect others to see it the same way I do. But to be fair, when we first saw the initial exchange between Gray and Invel, they were both warming up. It's too early to tell who had the upper hand. Think of Gildarts vs Bluenote or Laxus vs Wahl. They seemed evenly matched at first but we saw what happened at the end. Now the real question here is did Gildarts or Laxus have a darkness power-up? I don't think so. But they were clearly fueled by anger which I like to call "full power".

I can't tell if what Invel said was literal or philosophical so it could be real or it could be a bunch of nonsense.

I know what you mean though. A lot of people question the legitimacy of Gray's power, but I personally just don't see it.

Well the thing is, I don't think the END that fought Gray could fully transform at all. I don't see how only a small hole in the Book of END would be able to trigger a complete transformation.

That is actually a good possibility. You can ask me why Nasu didn't fully transform if he was able to and my only answer would be that "He wasn't given the chance to." Gray stopped him short of it. But he whatever the case may be, I can only speculate. So I'll be open about this. My only problem is that the word "Partial E.N.D" is a fan-made term. Never was it hinted or even implied in the manga.

 

[Seven777]

I'm going to move over here just because I think these are interesting topics to discuss despite our disagreements. Plus, I want to be considerate to those who always complain that I go off topic. Haha.



Hmm... That seems fair. I still think E.N.D's spells have higher attack potency though. Not only did the color of the flames change, but it left a mark on Erza's hand. The FDKM spell Natsu used on Jacob only left smoke coming off of him. But I'll admit that this isn't really solid evidence, so most of it is speculation.



Well, Laxus is definitely a top-tier character. I just don't think he is the strongest. I mean his fight is hard to judge because of his disadvantages but at the same time he had a lot of advantages too.

At first, he was suffering from MBP's but then he conveniently had Justu Shiki at his disposal to fix it.

Then Wahl was immune to lightning but Laxus' Red Lightning convenientIy negated that.

The last advantage that I think Laxus had was luck. When Wahl made a miscalculation about Laxus being a Lightning Dragon Slayer, he conveniently restored Laxus' energy by using a lightning attack. Without it, Wahl could've won that fight.

Anyways, to clarify my standpoint on this matter, the reason why I don't call Laxus the strongest is because Natsu + Gray were able to perform similar feats as him despite being at a weaker form. Since Laxus has no transformation, he should lose to E.N.D and DeS Gray. Same with Gajeel.



What you said here seems perfectly reasonable if you ask me. But your last sentence is where we differ just a bit. I think you are aware of the fact that I don't place all the Spriggans on the same level and this is precisely where that comes in. Natsu destroying Neinhart and Jacob was impressive (I have a few complaints about the Neinhart situation but I don't want to start a whole different debate here); however, I rank Dimaria higher in terms of durability. Therefore, E.N.D should be stronger in my mind.



Well, for me...

I put Laxus, Jellal, FDKM Natsu, Full-Power Base Gray, WSDM Sting, and DF Gajeel on the same level. Not necessarily equals but relatively close. E.N.D and DeS Gray is just a notch above in my opinion.

Gildarts for me is unknown but I do think he is up there.

---

Well again, this is just my perspective so I don't expect others to see it the same way I do. But to be fair, when we first saw the initial exchange between Gray and Invel, they were both warming up. It's too early to tell who had the upper hand. Think of Gildarts vs Bluenote or Laxus vs Wahl. They seemed evenly matched at first but we saw what happened at the end. Now the real question here is did Gildarts or Laxus have a darkness power-up? I don't think so. But they were clearly fueled by anger which I like to call "full power".

I can't tell if what Invel said was literal or philosophical so it could be real or it could be a bunch of nonsense.

I know what you mean though. A lot of people question the legitimacy of Gray's power, but I personally just don't see it.



That is actually a good possibility. You can ask me why Nasu didn't fully transform if he was able to and my only answer would be that "He wasn't given the chance to." Gray stopped him short of it. But he whatever the case may be, I can only speculate. So I'll be open about this. My only problem is that the word "Partial E.N.D" is a fan-made term. Never was it hinted or even implied in the manga.

But every advantage Laxus had, in the end only helped make up for the colossal disadvantages he started with.
If you take away every advantage Laxus had, (the the Jutsu Shiki, the bypassing Wahls immunity). But also take away Laxus disadvantages, (Wahls lightning immunity and the MBP sickness), what are you left with? Laxus oneshotting Wahl.

Gray on the other hand was the opposite, he was the one who started with the advantages over Invel, he was the one immune to Invels magic, and at the end of the fight, that advantage just got even more dangerous because it ended up allowing Gray to take Invels power and use it against him. Grays victory over Invel was almost entirely reliant on the advantages Gray has over other Ice Mages, while Laxus victory came about in spite of the advantages Wahl had over him, sure from a readers perspective Laxus had ass pulls, but from Laxus perspective it is just him using abilities that he himself learned.

So yeah, imo Laxus is still a fair bit above Gray

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

But every advantage Laxus had, in the end only helped make up for the colossal disadvantages he started with.
If you take away every advantage Laxus had, (the the Jutsu Shiki, the bypassing Wahls immunity). But also take away Laxus disadvantages, (Wahls lightning immunity and the MBP sickness), what are you left with? Laxus oneshotting Wahl.

That's fine. But Red Lightning is his strongest spell; therefore he was going all out. Gray, on the other hand, defeated Invel in Base Form. So with DeS, Gray can easily match Laxus. He was even able to match E.N.D who is stronger than Laxus. You can argue that slayer advantage allowed Gray to damage Natsu but what you can't deny is that Gray tanked one of E.N.D's attacks without much problem. That is a feat that Laxus has yet to prove.

Gray on the other hand was the opposite, he was the one who started with the advantages over Invel, he was the one immune to Invels magic, and at the end of the fight, that advantage just got even more dangerous because it ended up allowing Gray to take Invels power and use it against him. Grays victory over Invel was almost entirely reliant on the advantages Gray has over other Ice Mages, while Laxus victory came about in spite of the advantages Wahl had over him, sure from a readers perspective Laxus had ass pulls, but from Laxus perspective it is just him using abilities that he himself learned.

So yeah, imo Laxus is still a fair bit above Gray

Gray wasn't completely immune to Invel's magic and that is key. He still got damaged by Invel's ice. I know what you're getting at and that is the part where Gray wasn't insta-freezed due to his resistance to ice. You can't be critical of this though. It's the property of his magic just like how Laxus was resistant to lightning.

Spoiler: Laxus Immune to Wahl's Attack

As for Gray using Invel's ice against him, that is a skill he learned so I wouldn't call that an advantage. It's just like Laxus learning Jutsu Shiki which is Freed's magic. In my opinion, that is even worse because it wasn't just a skill, it was a whole separate magic.

Anyways, not only did Laxus' Red Lightning negate Wahl's immunity, but it was also super effective. That is an advantage right there. So I don't see how anyone can argue that Laxus was at a disadvantage while Gray was at an advantage. The problem here is that people tend to overlook Laxus' fight but they closely examine Gray's fight and pick out every single detail. I've examined Laxus' fight countless times and the number of conveniences that were in Laxus' favor is unimaginable.

 

[Demon Hunter]

imo Gray hasn't surpassed anyone, maybe Erza.

I like the dude but he is overrated and underrated at the same time.

heck, we don't even know if he is strong as he was during his fight against Natsu because he was heavily enraged.

even if he is he certainly isn't on the level of Jellal and Laxus, with or without RL.

he is outclassed in speed, AoE, durability, endurance and attack power.

what's happening lately???

I'm hearing all this stuff like Natsu can beat Jellal, Gray can beat Jellal, Natsu can beat Laxus, Gray can beat Laxus etc.

people are smoking something hard lately.

don't get me started with Gildarts.

he is stronger because.... pre skip hype lol.

 

[Seven777]

That's fine. But Red Lightning is his strongest spell; therefore he was going all out. Gray, on the other hand, defeated Invel in Base Form. So with DeS, Gray can easily match Laxus. He was even able to match E.N.D who is stronger than Laxus. You can argue that slayer advantage allowed Gray to damage Natsu but what you can't deny is that Gray tanked one of E.N.D's attacks without much problem. That is a feat that Laxus has yet to prove.



Gray wasn't completely immune to Invel's magic and that is key. He still got damaged by Invel's ice. I know what you're getting at and that is the part where Gray wasn't insta-freezed due to his resistance to ice. You can't be critical of this though. It's the property of his magic just like how Laxus was resistant to lightning.

Spoiler: Laxus Immune to Wahl's Attack

As for Gray using Invel's ice against him, that is a skill he learned so I wouldn't call that an advantage. It's just like Laxus learning Jutsu Shiki which is Freed's magic. In my opinion, that is even worse because it wasn't just a skill, it was a whole separate magic.

Anyways, not only did Laxus' Red Lightning negate Wahl's immunity, but it was also super effective. That is an advantage right there. So I don't see how anyone can argue that Laxus was at a disadvantage while Gray was at an advantage. The problem here is that people tend to overlook Laxus' fight but they closely examine Gray's fight and pick out every single detail. I've examined Laxus' fight countless times and the number of conveniences that were in Laxus' favor is unimaginable.

Sure, Laxus was going all out, but it was still a oneshot, plus he couldve casually killed Azir too.

Laxus tanking Whal's attacks while already dying from MBP sickness is imo at least as impressive as tanking END attacks, especially since imo END<FDKM Natsu.
Imo DeS Gray still gets overwhelmed by Laxus, he can possibly match Laxus in durability, but in speed and offense Laxus is superior.

Difference is that Laxus lightning immunity only came into play for a single attack, Gray's ice immunity was in effect the entire fight.
And i dont "blame" Gray for being immune to Ice, or for being capable of stealing it, i'm simply saying that he was incredibly lucky to have faced the only spriggan these skills would have been useful against. Just like i dont "blame" Wahl for being immune to Lightning, i just think he was incredibly lucky to be fighting the only FT mage that this skill would be useful against.

Dont buy into Red Lightning being super effective, imo it did the same damage it would have dealt to any non lightning immune spriggan. The chapter didnt portray Red Lightning as super effective, and nothing really suggests that it shouldve been, if anything "lightning surpasses lightning" suggests that Laxus overwhelmed Whal's Lightning Immunity, not bypassed it back to weakness. Add the fact that Laxus already had spriggan killing hype and i just dont see it.

I'll put it like this, imo if Gray fought Invel without any advantages or disadvantages,(meaning no Ice Immunity) he would win high diff but have to go DeS mode. However if Laxus fought Wahl without any advantages or disadvantages(meaning no MBPs and no Lightning Immunity for him or Wahl) he would win low-mid diff at most. That is the difference i see in their power.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

imo Gray hasn't surpassed anyone, maybe Erza.

I like the dude but he is overrated and underrated at the same time.

heck, we don't even know if he is strong as he was during his fight against Natsu because he was heavily enraged.

even if he is he certainly isn't on the level of Jellal and Laxus, with or without RL.

he is outclassed in speed, AoE, durability, endurance and attack power.

what's happening lately???

I'm hearing all this stuff like Natsu can beat Jellal, Gray can beat Jellal, Natsu can beat Laxus, Gray can beat Laxus etc.

people are smoking something hard lately.

don't get me started with Gildarts.

he is stronger because.... pre skip hype lol.

So does being heavily enraged not make it your own power? As far as I'm concerned, being angry is still your own power. Gildarts defeated Bluenote because he was enraged. So why would we assume that Gildarts isn't normally that strong?

In terms of durability and attack power, Gray is not outclassed by Laxus. The only stat that Gray is beat in is speed. Gray even has incredible endurance so he isn't losing to Laxus in that respect. I don't understand why people are still living in the past. Laxus and Jellal are not the strongest characters anymore. That has been established through portrayal in the current arc.

As for Natsu and Gray beating Jellal/Laxus, I don't see why this is so hard to believe. Gray is on Natsu's level and E.N.D is certainly above Laxus/Jellal. I would even go as far as to say that FDKM Natsu's feats rivals that of Laxus' and Jellal's.

Yes, I agree that Gildarts hasn't proven anything. But it's not unreasonable to assume his power level considering he compared himself with God Serena and one-shotted the Historia.

 

[Demon Hunter]

So does being heavily enraged not make it your own power? As far as I'm concerned, being angry is still your own power. Gildarts defeated Bluenote because he was enraged. So why would we assume that Gildarts isn't normally that strong?

In terms of durability and attack power, Gray is not outclassed by Laxus. The only stat that Gray is beat in is speed. Gray even has incredible endurance so he isn't losing to Laxus in that respect. I don't understand why people are still living in the past. Laxus and Jellal are not the strongest characters anymore. That has been established through portrayal in the current arc.

As for Natsu and Gray beating Jellal/Laxus, I don't see why this is so hard to believe. Gray is on Natsu's level and E.N.D is certainly above Laxus/Jellal. I would even go as far as to say that FDKM Natsu's feats rivals that of Laxus' and Jellal's.

Yes, I agree that Gildarts hasn't proven anything. But it's not unreasonable to assume his power level considering he compared himself with God Serena and one-shotted the Historia.

you are right but Juvia "died" and gave Gray a huge reason for that power up. Gildarts on the other hand was enraged but not to the point where he went Super Saiyan. that rage was pretty much legit when it comes to power scaling.

SSJ2 Vegeta became stronger than SSJ3 Goku for a minute but he became weaker after he calmed down.

in this scenario, I don't consider this to be permanent. it could be but we will have to wait and see. same goes for RL.

if we go by pre skip feats then its like this
LFDM Natsu was beating up Etherious Tempester.
Laxus was beating up what it seems to be base(assumption)Tempester.

Natsu >>> Laxus I guess.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Sure, Laxus was going all out, but it was still a oneshot, plus he couldve casually killed Azir too.

I see many others use that exact same statement as evidence and I ignore it (sorry for being blunt). We don't know if Ajeel would have been one-shotted by Laxus. That was all hype with no real substance to back it up. Even Ajeel denied it. Just because August makes an observation, that doesn't mean he's right. Keep in mind that he was the one who said only Mavis can defeat Larcade.

Laxus tanking Whal's attacks while already dying from MBP sickness is imo at least as impressive as tanking END attacks, especially since imo END<FDKM Natsu.
Imo DeS Gray still gets overwhelmed by Laxus, he can possibly match Laxus in durability, but in speed and offense Laxus is superior.

Yeah, you're not alone. I believe you're the second or third person to say this. But I still disagree. Personally, I haven't seen any feats from FDKM Natsu that puts him above E.N.D. It's the opposite if you ask me.

As for Gray, I agree he is inferior to Laxus in speed. But not in attack power.

Difference is that Laxus lightning immunity only came into play for a single attack, Gray's ice immunity was in effect the entire fight.
And i dont "blame" Gray for being immune to Ice, or for being capable of stealing it, i'm simply saying that he was incredibly lucky to have faced the only spriggan these skills would have been useful against. Just like i dont "blame" Wahl for being immune to Lightning, i just think he was incredibly lucky to be fighting the only FT mage that this skill would be useful against.

Entire fight? Gray was only resistant to one attack and that was the insta-freeze.

Yeah, Gray was lucky to fight Invel just like how Laxus was lucky to fight Wahl. So I don't see a reason to mention this if they're both given the same advantage. Anyways, just because Gray received this advantage, it doesn't mean he isn't as powerful as Laxus or that he would lose to another Spriggan.

Dont buy into Red Lightning being super effective, imo it did the same damage it would have dealt to any non lightning immune spriggan. The chapter didnt portray Red Lightning as super effective, and nothing really suggests that it shouldve been, if anything "lightning surpasses lightning" suggests that Laxus overwhelmed Whal's Lightning Immunity, not bypassed it back to weakness. Add the fact that Laxus already had spriggan killing hype and i just dont see it.

Well, your statement logically doesn't make sense. Laxus overwhlemed Wahl's lightning immunity but doesn't bypass it so that the weakness comes into effect? The whole purpose of Wahl's immunity was so that his weakness wouldn't be exposed. In other words, there is no attack that will be super-effective against him. Once somebody or something bypasses that, that should affect Wahl a great deal. So to say nothing suggests it is sort of false. Wahl is a machine. His weakness is electricity. Yes, he is immune to it. But since Laxus' lightning negated that immunity (by some miracle), so that means it would have been super effective (logically).

I'll put it like this, imo if Gray fought Invel without any advantages or disadvantages,(meaning no Ice Immunity) he would win high diff but have to go DeS mode. However if Laxus fought Wahl without any advantages or disadvantages(meaning no MBPs and no Lightning Immunity for him or Wahl) he would win low-mid diff at most. That is the difference i see in their power.

Well, your opinion is your opinion, so I can't really comment here. I don't agree and if I told you how I think the battles would go, we would just be going around in circles.

---

you are right but Juvia "died" and gave Gray a huge reason for that power up. Gildarts on the other hand was enraged but not to the point where he went Super Saiyan. that rage was pretty much legit when it comes to power scaling.

SSJ2 Vegeta became stronger than SSJ3 Goku for a minute but he became weaker after he calmed down.

in this scenario, I don't consider this to be permanent. it could be but we will have to wait and see. same goes for RL.

if we go by pre skip feats then its like this
LFDM Natsu was beating up Etherious Tempester.
Laxus was beating up what it seems to be base(assumption)Tempester.

Natsu >>> Laxus I guess.

But Juvia was the one to interfere in the first place. She's the reason why they were stuck together through Ice Lock and why Gray died himself. I don't see Juvia helping Gray out here. She just fixed her mistake. Besides, we don't even know how the battle would turn out had Juvia not interfered. Who's to say that Gray wouldn't go full-power regardless of Juvia dying? There are plenty of other scenarios that could fuel his rage just like Gildarts. The fact here is that he could match E.N.D, so Invel is nothing here.

In my opinion, LFD Natsu was losing against Etherious Temepsta. I would say they are on par at best. As for Laxus, yes, he destroyed Base Tempesta. But that doesn't mean he would have lost against Etherious Tempesta. Laxus being stronger than Natsu during the Tartaros Arc makes perfect sense. But not in the current arc, especially when we're dealing with E.N.D.

 

[Seven777]

I see many others use that exact same statement as evidence and I disagree. We don't know if Ajeel would have been one-shotted by Laxus. That was all hype with no real substance to back it up. Even Ajeel denied it. Just because August makes an observation, that doesn't mean he's right. Keep in mind that he was the one who said only Mavis can defeat Larcade.



Yeah, you're not alone. I believe you're the second or third person to say this. But I still disagree. Personally, I haven't seen any feats from FDKM Natsu that puts him above E.N.D. It's the opposite if you ask me.

As for Gray, I agree he is inferior to Laxus in speed. But not in attack power.



Entire fight? Gray was only resistant to one attack and that was the insta-freeze.

Yeah, Gray was lucky to fight Invel just like how Laxus was lucky to fight Wahl. So I don't see a reason to mention this if they're both given the same advantage. Anyways, just because Gray received this advantage, it doesn't mean he isn't powref



Well, your statement logically doesn't make sense. Laxus overwhlemed Wahl's lightning immunity but it doesn't become super-effective? The whole purpose of Wahl's immunity was so that his weakness wouldn't be exposed. In other words, there is no attack that will be super-effective against him. Once somebody or something bypasses that, that should affect Wahl a great deal. So to say nothing suggests it is sort of false. Wahl is a machine. His weakness is electricity. Yes, he is immune to it. But since Laxus' lightning negated that immunity (by some miracle), so that means it would have been super effective (logically).



Well, your opinion is your opinion, so I can't really comment here. I don't agree and if I told you how I think the battle would go, we would just be going around in circles.

Sure, but he's August... I'll take his word over the guy who calls himself god. Besides, even if you were to take Azir's word over August's, it doesnt change the fact that the most knowledgeable mage in existence who is also general of the spriggan 12, thought that the spell Laxus used had the power to kill one of his subordinates, which at the very least means that Laxus can kill the average spriggan with that attack, even if Azir himself may have been able to survive it.

What feats does Gray have that implies he has great attack power?

Yeah, resistant to insta freeze, all Invel's ice blast, Ice Raiment and pretty much everything Invel did, Invel is an Ice Wizard, Gray is immune to Ice.

Laxus was only lucky to fight Wahl cause he was already dying from MBPs. If Laxus was healthy like Gray, Wahl would be the single worst opponent for Laxus to fight, any spriggan other than August and Eileen would be better.

Yes, it overwhelmed Wahl's immunity, meaning Whal's Lightning immunity still reduced Red Lightnings potency, but Red Lightning was so powerful that even with that reduction in strength it was still able to kill Wahl. its similar to how Gray is immune to Ice, but Invel's attacks were still so cold that Gray was getting damaged by it. There was no implied negation of Wahl's immunity, it was still there, it simply wasnt enough to stop Red Lightning, the chapter didnt portray Red Lightning as super effective.

So how do you think Gray would do if he wasnt immune to insta freeze and couldnt take Invel's ice?
And how do you think Laxus would do if he wasnt dying from MBPs and Wahl wasnt immune or weak to Lightning?

 

[Demon Hunter]

that's true but we will never know that. I put DeS Gray(no rage)on the level of Invel, maybe even weaker. it also depends how strong do you think DeS Gray was(before his fight against Invel).

the hype for DeS Gray was never a HUGE deal for me(he is a badass though)because he fought beings in which he was super effective against(Mard Geer, END). Tartaros DeS Gray is probably weaker than Tartaros LFD Natsu imo.

besides, Laxus did fought Etherious Tempester in the anime which was basically Hiro's decision which gives us a look at Laxus durability and endurance

Spoiler

though he basically lost that fight if it wasn't for water.

besides, FDKM Natsu >>> END. partial END is too overhyped imo.

plus, we have to wait for his trump card. other than that, I doubt he can show us something else because he already fought Natsu all out(assumption), excluding his trump card. I rate Gray above Natsu anyway.

Laxus on the other hand has to use his DS magic yet, especially now when he is healed. Red Lightning is seemingly just another property or whatever

Spoiler

I highly suspect that MBP in his body for a year did lower his attack power imo.

we should also take some words from August as well. he said that Ajeel would have died from Laxus' nuke. taking it with a grain of salt here, it should be fair to say moderate to high damage at least which is pretty big for non serious Laxus.

now that I think about, Gray's power up is/could be permanent because PoF is the main source of power in FT so its hard not to use it. pretty stupid for me to not use that because every Erza fight is filled with that, AKA she wouldn't have feats otherwise.

yeah, Laxus has higher durability and endurance. its not miles above but its higher.

and Jellal needs to use Altruis, Sema and Meteor as well.

the hype for Jellal and Laxus goes beyond Gray any day.

being stronger than those two is a pretty big deal here but you could be right.

MC are so wanked in this arc to the point where they are sometimes absurdly strong because.

 

[sharkai]

Wahl couldn't analyse Red lightening so his immune system wasn't even in the equation

Wahl converts electricity. That's why he is immune to it. He couldn't analyze red lightening. No conversion could happen. Thus it was super effective.
Nothing about over powering or too much was mentioned

I also agree
END mode natsu >=enraged des gray > laxus

 

[Plutogrim]

Spirigan 12:
August > Irene > Larcade > Dimaria(Age Seal) > Bradman(Macro) > Jacob(Stealth) > Brandish > God Serena > Wahl > Invel > Azir > Neinhart.

Ishgar ranking: (No Wizards Saints because they are disappointment)
Natsu > Gildarts > Laxus > Gray > Sting > Jellal > Erza > TO Chelia > Mirajane > Kagura > Wendy > Minerva > Rouge > Lucy > Lyon.

 

[T.C.]

Wahl couldn't analyse Red lightening so his immune system wasn't even in the equation

Wahl converts electricity. That's why he is immune to it. He couldn't analyze red lightening. No conversion could happen. Thus it was super effective.
Nothing about over powering or too much was mentioned

Nothing about it being super effective was mentioned either.