Discussion Gildarts Clive

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Gildarts is around 50 years old. Of course he ain't getting much stronger through normal training and is in his prime. Stop being daft. Erza is like 20. She has waaaayyyy more training and experience left than Gildarts who has already had far more time to perfect his craft than her.

Really? I thought a character's prime is subjective in a sense that each person has a different maximum potential. But since you happen to go by age, tell me, what is the cut-off age for someone reaching their prime? Age does not correspond to maximum potential, and I'll explain why.

There are two notable mages that exemplify Age ≠ Prime. In fact, both of these characters improved a lot since the past.

Hades

Spoiler

You're probably going to ask what this panel proves. Well, Hades said that he is going on a journey (similar to how Gildarts tells everyone when he leaves). Now you're going to say this doesn't mean anything. But Hades did get stronger, right? That was his purpose for leaving, wasn't it? To learn the Arts of Black Magic?

Spoiler

Here, Hades is shown comparing himself with Makarov. He quotes, "Here is the point where two men have walked different paths meet... Is this the day when the continuum of this world is complete?". I'll break down what that means. A continuum is when two things have been similar to each other for quite some time (Their Powers), however, the extremes are very different (Their Full-Potential). So what Hades was saying here is that he has become far stronger than Makarov who we know is already stronger than his previous self. This measures out to be quite a big difference since 48 years ago was when he was already way older than Gildarts.

I know this isn't enough proof, so I'll go even further... This is just the beginning.

Makarov

Spoiler

Makarov was around 40 years old at the time. This was X736 which was 48 years ago. Note that this is very close to Gildarts' age (45) in X784 when he left. Has Makarov improved since then? If you don't believe so, look at the panels.

Spoiler

In this panel, Makarov just used Three Pillar Gods to defend from Hades' Amaterasu 100 Formula. Makarov survives it and Hades comments that he made the right choice to make Makarov guild master based on seeing his capabilities. Immediately afterwards, Hades says he can see why Makarov was able to run a guild for 48 years. Why? Because he became very strong since then which is the same thing as getting stronger. Plus, Makarov has become a Wizard Saint. He wasn't one when he was 40 years old. So that tells us that the Magic Coucil has recognized Makarov's power increase over a period of many years.

My Point: We've seen two old people grow in magic power significantly, yet Gildarts' is at his prime? As far as we know, saying Gildarts is at his prime is pure speculation. Same for every other character...

 

[THE ALMIGHTY CRYBABY]

I am no real fan of Gildarts but even I can tell that he must be damn strong!!! He didn't appeared in 2 arcs where he actual should have been ( GMG and Tataros), probably because he was too op. Even Laxus was too powerful in Tataros arc (two-shooted Tempesta) for evreyone expect Mard Geer and was taken out by a virus therefore.
He defeated Byro with ease who I think is stronger than Bluenote. Bluenote only managed to damage Gildarts because of Azumas interference ( All Ft-members were losing their power during their battles). After Gildarts' power had returned he defeated Bluenote without much effort when they were finally serious.
After Tataros Arc Natsu met Gildarts and they had a little match. The outcome was that Natsu moved Gildarts only a little bit farther than in Tenrou Arc. Then their fight was interrupted by a animal or monster attack and Gildarts showed us more of his power. The result of this was that Natsu didn't continue to battle him cause he was obvoiusly scared and impressed by his power!!!
Only 2 people managed to really frighten Natsu with their mp and those were Brandish and Gildarts ( did that twice).
I believe Gildarts will be the opponent of August but we have to w8 for this.
And age isn't rly a matter in ft to be strong. Hades was over 100 years old in Tenrou arc and he was amazing. August is also pretty old but probably still the strongest of the spriggean 12. So this basically means in ft-universe that age has no buisness with power at all.
The only character we could perhaps say that he is or was in his prime, is Makarov because I didn't see any improvement of him after he had achieved the Ws-title. Gildarts being in his prime is just speculation and there is no evidence for this an I also doubt that he should be!!!

 

[Arjuna]

I Really Think Gildarts is Too much Hyped.I don't Think He is on Spriggan Level.He may be Stronger Than Hyberion but Falls Short of Spriggan Level.Reasons:-
i)He Took Too Much Time To Defeat Bluenote.He couldn't Finish The Battle with a Single Attack.Hiro himself stated in Chapter 423 That Bluenote Managed To Gildarts On Par.
ii)Makarov Stated That GMG Jura was on The Level of Gildarts.Okay Fine Character Statements don't count Much but Still He will not Downgrade Gildarts That Much.Gildarts may be Stronger than Tartaros laxus or Tartaros Jellal but weaker than Mard Geer.

 

[tarunraj]

gildarts might not be strong as springan but his magic is sure have an upperhand like brandish magic he can cruse anything that enemy through at him he has great physical strength and if someone try to fight him with strength he can use his magic as shield so far we saw that all springan has mastery our single magic but with gildarts magic and strength his can handle them

 

[Brandish μ]

Gildarts can improve the way he uses magic imo. His body limits him. He's got great physical strength, but I think with missing limbs, he should really be looking to have more of a range game. He'll still be a beast in CQC, just saying the guy could give his body a break by fighting with range. Whether or not crash can be used in a nuke/blast type way I am not sure, just speculating.

Dissassembly is very strong defensive magic too, but his propensity to fight up close and personal limits the potential of this magic. That said he's only got one good fight, so he might be different against someone like Jellal.

 

[BluePegasus]

I agree with people who say Gildarts isn't Spriggan tier. Gildarts hasn't show me anything that brings him above Jellal or Laxus.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I Really Think Gildarts is Too much Hyped.I don't Think He is on Spriggan Level.He may be Stronger Than Hyberion but Falls Short of Spriggan Level.Reasons:-
i)He Took Too Much Time To Defeat Bluenote.He couldn't Finish The Battle with a Single Attack.Hiro himself stated in Chapter 423 That Bluenote Managed To Gildarts On Par.
ii)Makarov Stated That GMG Jura was on The Level of Gildarts.Okay Fine Character Statements don't count Much but Still He will not Downgrade Gildarts That Much.Gildarts may be Stronger than Tartaros laxus or Tartaros Jellal but weaker than Mard Geer.

I agree with people who say Gildarts isn't Spriggan tier. Gildarts hasn't show me anything that brings him above Jellal or Laxus.

I have to disagree. Sure, Gildarts is hyped a lot. But there is a reason for it. We already saw Gildarts "somewhat casually" destroy part of an island, a feat that Laxus nor Jellal has yet to make. Even Jellal's Sema doesn't have enough AoE to destroy one. Not to mention, this was before the timeskip, so like I already said, Gildarts has some chance for improvement. Whenever Natsu goes up against Gildarts, he is always scared and surprised by Gildarts' power, something that he has never done when confronting Jellal or Laxus. Honestly, if Gildarts' attacks are not Spriggan level, I really don't know who has feats worthy of being Spriggan level.

Like I said, saying that Pre-Timeskip Gildarts is not Spriggan Tier is fine. But Alvarez Gildarts is unknown at this point. I can do the same and say Tartaros Jellal and Laxus are not Spriggan Tier nor did they show anything close to being one. But it is unfair for these characters especially since we're comparing two different timeskips.

 

[Arjuna]

I have to disagree. Sure, Gildarts is hyped a lot. But there is a reason for it. We already saw Gildarts "somewhat casually" destroy part of an island, a feat that Laxus nor Jellal has yet to make. Even Jellal's Sema doesn't have enough AoE to destroy one. Not to mention, this was before the timeskip, so like I already said, Gildarts has some chance for improvement. Whenever Natsu goes up against Gildarts, he is always scared and surprised by Gildarts' power, something that he has never done when confronting Jellal or Laxus. Honestly, if Gildarts' attacks are not Spriggan level, I really don't know who has feats worthy of being Spriggan level.

Like I said, saying that Pre-Timeskip Gildarts is not Spriggan Tier is fine. But Alvarez Gildarts is unknown at this point. I can do the same and say Tartaros Jellal and Laxus are not Spriggan Tier nor did they show anything close to being one. But it is unfair for these characters especially since we're comparing two different timeskips.

I Think Gildarts has reached Prime I Tell You why?Bluenote has reached His Prime That is why He is on The Level as He was 8 Years ago.Otherwise He Should have been a Spriggan Level Opponent Now.Gildarts is also of The Same age or around it and I believe He Too have Reached His Prime.We saw Gildarts of Tartaros Arc as Same He was in Tenrou Arc.And No One in Tartaros Arc was Spriggan Level.It is only Now Natsu,laxus and Jellal has become a Spriggan Level Now may be Gray and Gajeel Too based on His DF Now.

 

[Brandish μ]

I agree with people who say Gildarts isn't Spriggan tier. Gildarts hasn't show me anything that brings him above Jellal or Laxus.

Jellal is also yet to show anything that he is Spriggan tier. In fact, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he is better or equal to Gildarts. Both Jellal and Gildarts are yet to do anything this arc. Laxus is clearly above pre-skip Gildarts, and I support Jellal being stronger when he gets feats.

I tend to believe Gildarts has been usurped within the guild, even if he does return. It's not as if this is a risky call to make - Laxus/Natsu are top tiers in the FT verse right now (excluding Acno/Zeref). Saying Gildarts can actually reach/beat them is a greater claim to make, if you think about just how strong Laxus is within the context of all wizards in Alvarez/Isghal. When he gets brought back I do believe he'll be able to hold his own against Spriggans.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2016 ---

i)He Took Too Much Time To Defeat Bluenote.He couldn't Finish The Battle with a Single Attack.Hiro himself stated in Chapter 423 That Bluenote Managed To Gildarts On Par.

I do think the Bluenote fight is the main reason why Gildarts isn't Spriggan level. If Natsu can quite easily defeat Bluenote while holding Sherria in his hand, then it makes Gildarts efforts seem lacking. Even after the battle Gildarts seemed exhausted.

 

[reesestl]

Hiro himself stated in Chapter 423 That Bluenote Managed To Gildarts On Par.

Where?

 

[MangerDan]

Where?

Here

Spoiler

Mangapanda has it as just, the man who once fought with gildarts.

 

[Holt]

Gildarts has a very deadly magic. It's capable of destroying towns and islands (or a large chunk anyway). Gildarts age means he'll tire out easier in battle, but that's not an indication that he couldn't have gotten better with crash over the TS. His go to option is usually to exchange punches, but if he changes that to focus on using crash more and worry less about the possible damage, he'd be a lot more dangerous. Consider the nuke Laxus dropped on Ajeel in Alvarez. Gildarts wouldn't consider using crash on such a large scale when he's already leaving. He'd hardly even use crash unless he gets pretty pissed in battle. He holds back a lot, especially with crash. Considering how much damage Gildarts have been shown capable of even when the power scales weren't anything close to him and with the constant reminders of how dangerous his magic is, I doubt we've seen his pinnacle yet. When Mashima does bring him back, it'll be for him to show his worth in battle against a spriggan.
I wouldn't say last we if we use last we saw him, he's still the FT's best but he's definitely still up there.

 

[reesestl]

Here

Spoiler

Mangapanda has it as just, the man who once fought with gildarts.

They will be at par if he went toe-to-toe while Gildartz retained magic throughout the fight. If you are saying Giltardz without magic is at par with Blunote, I agree.

 

[BluePegasus]

Jellal is also yet to show anything that he is Spriggan tier. In fact, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he is better or equal to Gildarts. Both Jellal and Gildarts are yet to do anything this arc. Laxus is clearly above pre-skip Gildarts, and I support Jellal being stronger when he gets feats.

Tbh, Jellal showed me way more impressive things than Gildarts did. He took down the OS on his own. Even though any Spriggan (maybe Ajeel not) could do this as well, I can't see Gildarts do it like Jellal did.

Sema may be the strongest caster spell we've seen so far. Gildarts didn't show me anything as impressive as Sema.

Both Laxus and Jellal are > pre-skip Gildarts.

I tend to believe Gildarts has been usurped within the guild, even if he does return. It's not as if this is a risky call to make - Laxus/Natsu are top tiers in the FT verse right now (excluding Acno/Zeref). Saying Gildarts can actually reach/beat them is a greater claim to make, if you think about just how strong Laxus is within the context of all wizards in Alvarez/Isghal. When he gets brought back I do believe he'll be able to hold his own against Spriggans.

I'd say Laxus and Jellal are equal. Both of them are more or less Spriggan tier and I can't see them beating a Spriggan without having a really hard time. There are still a view Spriggans who are stronger than them. I'd say they are equal with mid tier Spriggans.

Base Natsu is below Laxus, Jellal and Gildarts.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I knew this panel would re-appear once again in this thread and I want to clarify a few things here.

Spoiler

First of all, I don't know who it is but whether it is Hiro Mashima, an editor, or a translator that chose the phrase "Toe-to-Toe", they were very precise in their word choice. Most people automatically assume the meaning of it as on par or equal, but the definition doesn't suggest that or back it up. Many sources would agree with these definitions.

Google: https://www.google.com/search?sclie...0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..1.19.2423.ckPwfvEQ7qE

The Free Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toe-to-toe

Macmillan Dictionary: http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/toe-to-toe

What does the definitions say? Toe-to-Toe merely means a fight, competition, or confrontation that is a one-on-one match between two people. It doesn't necessarily mean on par which is part of the confusion here.

Second of all, even if the writers intended for them to be equal, feats override that so words cannot be used as proof.

Lastly, the amount that Bluenote improves over a timeskip does not really have any impact. Erza was once stronger than Natsu. How about now? So even if Gildarts and Bluenote fought evenly, according to you guys not me, then what restricts Gildarts to Bluenote's current power?

So I still stand by my claim. Gildarts beats Bluenote with or without magic. Bluenote is not on par. Although I would agree that he is strong.

EDIT:

Those words aren't Hiro's words they're the words from the publisher of the weekly shonen magazine. It's a marketing move to make the manga more cheesy and has been done many times before.

Thank you God Serena26 for clarifying the origin from which those words came from.

 

[Cat Sidhe26]

I knew this panel would re-appear once again in this thread and I want to clarify a few things here.

Spoiler

First of all, I don't know who it is but whether it is Hiro Mashima, an editor. or a translator that chose the phrase "Toe-to-Toe", they were very precise in their word choice. Most people automatically assume the meaning of it as on par or or equal, but the definition doesn't suggest that or back it up. Many sources would agree with these definitions.

Google: https://www.google.com/search?sclie...0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..1.19.2423.ckPwfvEQ7qE

The Free Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toe-to-toe

Macmillan Dictionary: http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/toe-to-toe

What does the definitions say? Toe-to-Toe merely means a fight, competition, or confrontation that is a one-on-one match between two people. It doesn't necessarily mean on par which is part of the confusion here.

Second of all, even if the writers intended for them to be equal, feats override that so words cannot be used as proof.

Lastly, the amount that Bluenote improves over a timeskip does not really have any impact. Erza was once stronger than Natsu. How about now? So even if Gildarts and Bluenote fought evenly, according to you guys not me, then what restricts Gildarts to Bluenote's current power?

So I still stand by my claim. Gildarts beats Bluenote with or without magic. Bluenote is not on par. Although I would agree that he is strong.

Those words aren't Hiro's words they're the words from the publisher of the weekly shonen magazine. It's a marketing move to make the manga more cheesy and has been done many times before.

 

[MangerDan]

They will be at par if he went toe-to-toe while Gildartz retained magic throughout the fight. If you are saying Giltardz without magic is at par with Blunote, I agree.

Umm okay... I was providing the page for you nothing else.

 

[reesestl]

Umm okay... I was providing the page for you nothing else.

Thanks for the page.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Ugh my post got deleted so I'm going to make this short. Gildarts is likely near his 40 ones psychical prime, Gildarts himself is an physical fighter. Let me repeat that again, PHYSICAL FIGHTER. Both example of Hades and Makarov are irrelevant, the Makarov one didn't even imply he got stronger nor did we know at what age Makarov was a Wizard Saint. As for Hades he learned a high level black magic and literally got a new source of magic to fuel him, which even if that was the case this doesn't apply to Gildarts unless he gains a new type of magic, something I don't see happening. Neither Hades or Makarov are mainly psychical fighters, though Makarov seems to use his Titan magic alot every serious one on one fight Makarov has used mainly his light magic. Hitting your psychical prime will effect someone who is a physical fighter, comparing Hades to Gildarts in this case is a joke. Gildarts himself shouldn't logically be Spirggan level, he was being pushed slightly by Bluenote, someone Natsu casually one shotted. The gap between his level on Tenrou and a Spirgga is too large. It's funny as well because I see people matching Gildarts with the likes of August, the strongest Spirggan via hype, Gildarts should normally get squashed by him, but knowing Hiro anything is possible with his inconsistent power levels.

 

[Holt]

Tbh, Jellal showed me way more impressive things than Gildarts did. He took down the OS on his own. Even though any Spriggan (maybe Ajeel not) could do this as well, I can't see Gildarts do it like Jellal did.

Sema may be the strongest caster spell we've seen so far. Gildarts didn't show me anything as impressive as Sema.

Both Laxus and Jellal are > pre-skip Gildarts.

You didn't see anything impressive from Gildarts? Like demolishing a large part of an island? Or actually fighting Natsu without magic? He found Tartaros Natsu (who was using fire magic) with his bare hands and after Natsu used a flurry of attacks, he only managed to push Gildarts a little backwards. Gildarts literally sent Natsu flying with a single punch. Can you see pre TS Jellal or Laxus doing that to Tartaros Natsu? Natsu got scared and refused to fight Gildarts anymore after that little show and somehow Jellal and Laxus are stronger and more impressive?