Gray's main problem is i believe @Nemispelled is that he thinks END is the GM of Tartaros Guild.So he assumed that Silver suffered due to END.Obviously he doesn't know the truth.
But i disagree that Zeref would have controlled END.Controlling his Etherious is not his motive.He wanted to die.Gray after seeing that his best friend is END and thinking about losing Juvia and coupled with darkness from Des Magic made his mind go for a brief period of time mad.
Gray's main problem is i believe @Nemispelled is that he thinks END is the GM of Tartaros Guild.So he assumed that Silver suffered due to END.Obviously he doesn't know the truth.
But i disagree that Zeref would have controlled END.Controlling his Etherious is not his motive.He wanted to die.Gray after seeing that his best friend is END and thinking about losing Juvia and coupled with darkness from Des Magic made his mind go for a brief period of time mad.
Nah, I know that END was not the GM of Tartaros. We learned that some chapters ago that Mard Geer didn't know what he was talking about. Which I can see and agree with.
But that doesn't cut it. Silver doesn't have to suffer anything from END. The fact that END is evil (or causes Natsu to turn a 180 in personality), is enough of a reason for Gray or Fairy Tail to fight and extinguish it.
Any good-hearted person would fight against END.
But Silver's and Gray's past with demons causing destruction in their families is only another reason for them to fight, rather than a sole reason.
As for Zeref, he gave up on wanting to die. That is no longer his motive. His current motive is to cause destruction and annihilate humanity.
From this point forth, Zeref decided he would enter the war between Acnologia and the humans because Natsu was still far too weak to kill an immortal like him.
After the Tartaros encounter, Zeref realized it would take way too long for Natsu to get strong enough to kill an immortal, and he gave up on waiting.
Of course, Acnologia can just end his life at any moment since the beginning of the series, but he doesn't want anybody to kill him unless their name was Natsu Dragneel.
Long story short, if END can't kill him, he would rather rule the world and live alongside his brother for eternity (since he is cursed with being immortal).
Which would mean taking control of Natsu/END, and demolishing Acnologia and FT.
Then he gets his wish to live solely in a world where everything is all about Natsu and Zeref.
@Nemispelled To be honest i stated in another thread recently that Gray's development were a let down for me. You're probably not going to convince me about it, however i see a lot of good points in your posts and i see your logic.
But Gray's actions were not aiming at stopping END. He wanted to kill END.
Not just prevent END and Zeref's reunion. I do agree that END meeting Zeref could have been bad. But desite it being a good reason to fight END, that wasn't his reason at all. His reason was "UUURGH this is END i will kill him because my dad said so".
I agree that FT fight/kill evil. And i agree that END isn't Gray's best friend, Natsu is.
But killing END would result in killing Natsu, Gray's best friend. So that's pretty much the same thing.
Look what happened when Natsu was about to try and kill Zeref with Igneel's power. He was justified since Zeref is evil. But Happy stopped Natsu, because Natsu killing Zeref woould mean Natsu die. appy didn't want that to happen.
Gray though... Didn't care at all. All he wanted was to kill END regardless of losing his best friend. In fact he didn't even say "im going to kill END", he said "you're END so i will kill you Natsu". That's what disappointed me so freaking much. Not even a second thought. This is his damn best friend. No shits given.
@Nemispelled To be honest i stated in another thread recently that Gray's development were a let down for me. You're probably not going to convince me about it, however i see a lot of good points in your posts and i see your logic.
But Gray's actions were not aiming at stopping END. He wanted to kill END.
Not just prevent END and Zeref's reunion. I do agree that END meeting Zeref could have been bad. But desite it being a good reason to fight END, that wasn't his reason at all. His reason was "UUURGH this is END i will kill him because my dad said so".
I agree that FT fight/kill evil. And i agree that END isn't Gray's best friend, Natsu is.
But killing END would result in killing Natsu, Gray's best friend. So that's pretty much the same thing.
Look what happened when Natsu was about to try and kill Zeref with Igneel's power. He was justified since Zeref is evil. But Happy stopped Natsu, because Natsu killing Zeref woould mean Natsu die. Natsu didn't want that to happen.
Gray though... Didn't care at all. All he wanted was to kill END regardless of losing his best friend. In fact he didn't even say "im going to kill END", he said "you're END so i will kill you Natsu". That's what disappointed me so freaking much. Not even a second thought. This is his damn best friend. No shits given.
Well, it was for Happy's sake that Natsu decided not to kill Zeref. Natsu himself wanted to kill Zeref at that moment.
And I'm not saying that Natsu deserved to die and Gray deserved to live. All I'm saying is that you technically can't blame Gray for his actions, as anybody else in their right mind would do the same.
And merely stopping END wouldn't do any good. He is too powerful of a demon that killing would be the safest option. Simply stopping a creature like END isn't enough... you can even see that it was probably only partial END. If you let it fully awaken, even Gray might not have a chance to stop it anymore.
Regardless, Gray's intention was never to destroy the friend he grew up with. So it's not like he made a blunder or should be faulted for his actions.
His purpose in that fight was to end an evil demon, even if that means indirectly killing Natsu.
You have to also understand that it's not like Natsu tried to reason it out with Gray.
Natsu wasn't in the right state of mind and was in fact doing the opposite. He acted completely harsh towards Gray when he ordered him to move aside without any explanations.
Natsu himself actually led Gray on to believe that he was completely possessed and controlled by the demon.
So at that point, Gray deemed it necessary to kill, and was talking to "END" rather than the friend he once knew.
If Natsu were to give Gray an explanation and not act abnormally opposite from his regular personality, I highly doubt Gray would have been attempting to crush Natsu's skull.
Gray practically was unlucky and had no choice in this situation. This whole thing was resolved by a miracle, which was Makarov's decision to sacrifice himself.
Which is why I held Makarov to high regards in that chapter because he took a brave stance despite Erza and Mavis pleading for him not to do it.
I want to add something about Silver- we should re-read the chapters dedicated to him because his grief is HUGE, and many of you here consider him as the "culprit" of Gray's will.
If you read volume 46 you can actually feel at 360 degrees how much Silver has suffered and mourned over Mika and Gray, and lastly his desire to die in peace because now he has his son to achieve a totally legit revenge.
Gray needs to fulfill three things for HIMSELF.
1. His father's last wish
2. Revenge for his family
3. And Ur.
I still consider the END plot forced, nor that I like it, but seriously... Gray being a let down in this arc means not understanding his character at all.
Volume 46 is the key.
Plus, as I said in my previous post... Invel did a legit brainwash on him. Don't be deceived by my dp, but people... do you think that Gray, in a normal situation in which he didn't see Juvia die, would blame END for her death? o_o he was tainted at his best. That's what darkness is- what Invel said chapters ago. He was on the verge of becoming a full-demon.
The real enemy is still Zeref, however. Just a matter of chapters and you'll see Gray realising that.
Well, it was for Happy's sake that Natsu decided not to kill Zeref. Natsu himself wanted to kill Zeref at that moment.
And I'm not saying that Natsu deserved to die and Gray deserved to live. All I'm saying is that you technically can't blame Gray for his actions, as anybody else in their right mind would do the same.
And merely stopping END wouldn't do any good. He is too powerful of a demon that killing would be the safest option. Simply stopping a creature like END isn't enough... you can even see that it was probably only partial END. If you let it fully awaken, even Gray might not have a chance to stop it anymore.
Regardless, Gray's intention was never to destroy the friend he grew up with. So it's not like he made a blunder or should be faulted for his actions.
His purpose in that fight was to end an evil demon, even if that means indirectly killing Natsu.
You have to also understand that it's not like Natsu tried to reason it out with Gray.
Natsu wasn't in the right state of mind and was in fact doing the opposite. He acted completely harsh towards Gray when he ordered him to move aside without any explanations.
Natsu himself actually led Gray on to believe that he was completely possessed and controlled by the demon.
So at that point, Gray deemed it necessary to kill, and was talking to "END" rather than the friend he once knew.
If Natsu were to give Gray an explanation and not act abnormally opposite from his regular personality, I highly doubt Gray would have been attempting to crush Natsu's skull.
Gray practically was unlucky and had no choice in this situation. This whole thing was resolved by a miracle, which was Makarov's decision to sacrifice himself.
Which is why I held Makarov to high regards in that chapter because he took a brave stance despite Erza and Mavis pleading for him not to do it.
Natsu didn't try to reason it out with Gray because he was obsessed and controlled by the demon, you're right. He was obsessed with killing Zeref ONLY. He asked Gray to move aside because he didn't want to fight him, he only wanted Zeref. That's far from the bloodthirsty most evil demon that was described by Gray's dad, Atlas Flame or whoever else. In my eyes Natsu/END was actually not unreasonable since he didn't want to fight aside from his only enemy Zeref, while Gray blocked him with the intent of killing him.
I mean, i understand why one would want to attack/kill END, i'm perfectly ok with this. But Gray has been obsessed with it, almost as much as Natsu was obsessed by Zeref when controlled by END (well maybe not LOL but you know what i mean). This has been his obsession since Tartaros, and there is no valid reason for that aside from "my dad wanted it, for no reason either".
That's extremely forced in order to make Gray relevant in the final fights and increase the rivalty between the two friends. The plot demanded it. Gray himself has no valid reason, aside from idiotic reasons. For someone usually smart, this obsession was out of character.
At least Natsu is out of character because he's controlled by a powerful entity. Gray is just, Gray. He's been acting dumb on his own. Though Juvia's death probably played a role in the end i'll admit.
I want to add something about Silver- we should re-read the chapters dedicated to him because his grief is HUGE, and many of you here consider him as the "culprit" of Gray's will.
If you read volume 46 you can actually feel at 360 degrees how much Silver has suffered and mourned over Mika and Gray, and lastly his desire to die in peace because now he has his son to achieve a totally legit revenge.
Gray needs to fulfill three things for HIMSELF.
1. His father's last wish
2. Revenge for his family
3. And Ur.
I still consider the END plot forced, nor that I like it, but seriously... Gray being a let down in this arc means not understanding his character at all.
Volume 46 is the key.
Plus, as I said in my previous post... Invel did a legit brainwash on him. Don't be deceived by my dp, but people... do you think that Gray, in a normal situation in which he didn't see Juvia die, would blame END for her death? o_o he was tainted at his best. That's what darkness is- what Invel said chapters ago. He was on the verge of becoming a full-demon.
The real enemy is still Zeref, however. Just a matter of chapters and you'll see Gray realising that.
I agree about the three things Gray needs to fullfill for himself. None of them involve killing END though, or having a personaly grudge against END. END hasn't done ANYTHING during the entire course of the series. Deliora killed Gray's family, "killed" Ur. I can understand that Silver/Gray hold a grudge against demons in general. Not a personaly obsession for only END. Also why wouldn't Zeref be the ultimate boss to kill? He's the one who's responsible for all of this.
It is conceivable that Gray wants to kill END because he's the most powerful demon. When he learns that it is acctually Natsu, who has never done ANYTHING to harm his friend or Gray's family or Gray's dad, and whe it is revealed by Invel and Natsu himself, that END ONLY wants to kill Zeref (who's responsible for all these massacres). Then at least GGray could question if his quest ctually makes sense. Never once has he questionned if killing END was truly the best choice.
Why not fucking Zeref instead of his best friend.
I just realized that's what you said in the end of your post LOL my bad. Yeah i guess i'm salty, a bit. I like Gray and all, but all the shenanigans concerning Gray vs END disappointed me.
Eh, that's just me though to each his own xD
Natsu didn't try to reason it out with Gray because he was obsessed and controlled by the demon, you're right. He was obsessed with killing Zeref ONLY. He asked Gray to move aside because he didn't want to fight him, he only wanted Zeref. That's far from the bloodthirsty most evil demon that was described by Gray's dad, Atlas Flame or whoever else. In my eyes Natsu/END was actually not unreasonable since he didn't want to fight aside from his only enemy Zeref, while Gray blocked him with the intent of killing him.
I mean, i understand why one would want to attack/kill END, i'm perfectly ok with this. But Gray has been obsessed with it, almost as much as Natsu was obsessed by Zeref when controlled by END (well maybe not LOL but you know what i mean). This has been his obsession since Tartaros, and there is no valid reason for that aside from "my dad wanted it, for no reason either".
That's extremely forced in order to make Gray relevant in the final fights and increase the rivalty between the two friends. The plot demanded it. Gray himself has no valid reason, aside from idiotic reasons. For someone usually smart, this obsession was out of character.
At least Natsu is out of character because he's controlled by a powerful entity. Gray is just, Gray. He's been acting dumb on his own. Though Juvia's death probably played a role in the end i'll admit.
Gray's obsession didn't start with this fight against END though. He's always wanted to kill END at all costs. I can respect your opinion that you think Gray's obsession with killing END from the start in Tartaros is dumb, but I happen to think differently.
Considering Gray swore to his dying father (who he had major respect for, but never got a chance to spend time with), I think it is completely justified for Gray to make "Killing END" his ultimate goal for living and a #1 priority.
That's why he spent an entire year through rigorous training and gathering information while being a part of the Avatar guild. All of this was done to accomplish what his father entrusted him to do.
It's not like Gray ever had a choice in this matter. Silver practically forced the job of killing END on Gray after he was defeated in their match during Tartaros.
Gray is simply working hard to finish what his father started. And I don't see why we should blame Gray for the amount of focus and effort he's put in it. (I guess this would be where most people call it obsession, but not me)
But it's not like Gray's obsession was any different in Tartaros than during his fight with END. His "obsession" stayed relatively the same throughout, the only difference is that he actually encountered END in Alvarez.
And even though Gray's obsession with killing END was there in Tartaros, nobody faulted Gray for it at that time because they thought Gray wouldn't have the balls to kill the demon.
But when the time finally came for Gray to fulfill his father's last dying wish and Gray actually did have the balls to do it, then people started saying "Gray was retarded" when he was simply carrying out his promise.
I don't think people blamed Gray for his obsession, since it was an obsession that was well understood. But I think people felt that Gray betrayed Natsu when in fact, he did nothing of that sort.
He was attempting to kill a demon, and Natsu led him on because he was being harsh. I'm not blaming Natsu for this, but I'm certainly not blaming Gray either.
Natsu didn't try to reason it out with Gray because he was obsessed and controlled by the demon, you're right. He was obsessed with killing Zeref ONLY. He asked Gray to move aside because he didn't want to fight him, he only wanted Zeref. That's far from the bloodthirsty most evil demon that was described by Gray's dad, Atlas Flame or whoever else. In my eyes Natsu/END was actually not unreasonable since he didn't want to fight aside from his only enemy Zeref, while Gray blocked him with the intent of killing him.
I mean, i understand why one would want to attack/kill END, i'm perfectly ok with this. But Gray has been obsessed with it, almost as much as Natsu was obsessed by Zeref when controlled by END (well maybe not LOL but you know what i mean). This has been his obsession since Tartaros, and there is no valid reason for that aside from "my dad wanted it, for no reason either".
That's extremely forced in order to make Gray relevant in the final fights and increase the rivalty between the two friends. The plot demanded it. Gray himself has no valid reason, aside from idiotic reasons. For someone usually smart, this obsession was out of character.
At least Natsu is out of character because he's controlled by a powerful entity. Gray is just, Gray. He's been acting dumb on his own. Though Juvia's death probably played a role in the end i'll admit.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I agree about the three things Gray needs to fullfill for himself. None of them involve killing END though, or having a personaly grudge against END. END hasn't done ANYTHING during the entire course of the series. Deliora killed Gray's family, "killed" Ur. I can understand that Silver/Gray hold a grudge against demons in general. Not a personaly obsession for only END. Also why wouldn't Zeref be the ultimate boss to kill? He's the one who's responsible for all of this.
It is conceivable that Gray wants to kill END because he's the most powerful demon. When he learns that it is acctually Natsu, who has never done ANYTHING to harm his friend or Gray's family or Gray's dad, and whe it is revealed by Invel and Natsu himself, that END ONLY wants to kill Zeref (who's responsible for all these massacres). Then at least GGray could question if his quest ctually makes sense. Never once has he questionned if killing END was truly the best choice.
Why not fucking Zeref instead of his best friend.
I just realized that's what you said in the end of your post LOL my bad. Yeah i guess i'm salty, a bit. I like Gray and all, but all the shenanigans concerning Gray vs END disappointed me.
Eh, that's just me though to each his own xD
As I said I've never liked this plot/subplot because from my pov it is just a way to put the two bff against each other... but I can understand why Gray acted that way when he confronted Natsu/END. Just that.
While the general saltiness / hatred in some cases come from the fact they see Gray as irrational and stupid, I just consider what Invel said and vol 46 to understand his actions and well I do.
It's not that Natsu in that encounter was more logical, eh.
Both were possessed, but imho what I disliked is that Mashima should have showed this graphically better, drawing a more demonised Gray because not everyone goes deep into this like I do. Drawings play the most important role in mangas so to me this is where the problem to understand Gray also resides.
There's a reason why the fight ended that way- he is calm now, he will be logical again.
Another point against this "defense" is why he didn't kill Invel. I guess plot convenience needed his part in the END revelation... lol
Gray's obsession didn't start with this fight against END though. He's always wanted to kill END at all costs. I can respect your opinion that you think Gray's obsession with killing END from the start in Tartaros is dumb, but I happen to think differently.
Considering Gray swore to his dying father (who he had major respect for, but never got a chance to spend time with), I think it is completely justified for Gray to make "Killing END" his ultimate goal for living and a #1 priority.
That's why he spent an entire year through rigorous training and gathering information while being a part of the Avatar guild. All of this was done to accomplish what his father entrusted him to do.
It's not like Gray ever had a choice in this matter. Silver practically forced the job of killing END on Gray after he was defeated in their match during Tartaros.
Gray is simply working hard to finish what his father started. And I don't see why we should blame Gray for the amount of focus and effort he's put in it. (I guess this would be where most people call it obsession, but not me)
But it's not like Gray's obsession was any different in Tartaros than during his fight with END. His "obsession" stayed relatively the same throughout, the only difference is that he actually encountered END in Alvarez.
And even though Gray's obsession with killing END was there in Tartaros, nobody faulted Gray for it at that time because they thought Gray wouldn't have the balls to kill the demon.
But when the time finally came for Gray to fulfill his father's last dying wish and Gray actually did have the balls to do it, then people started saying "Gray was retarded" when he was simply carrying out his promise.
I don't think people blamed Gray for his obsession, since it was an obsession that was well understood. But I think people felt that Gray betrayed Natsu when in fact, he did nothing of that sort.
He was attempting to kill a demon, and Natsu led him on because he was being harsh. I'm not blaming Natsu for this, but I'm certainly not blaming Gray either.
I can understand and agree with everything you said to be honest, but that doesn't change the result in my eyes.
I understand that he respected his dad to the point that he followed his last wish pointlessly. These are circumstances that i understand.
I understand that what i call an obsession, stems from this desire from the dad and grew over time. I can understand and respect that.
Does it make it any less pointless though, not in my eyes. Silver had no reason to hold a grudge against END, neither had Gray. I understand the circumstances. But Gray always had a choice, he chose to blindly follow his father's wish which had no reason behind it to begin with. That ultimately led him to attack his best friend with the intent of killing him.
I wouldn't be disappointed in Gray if his anger was directed at every demon and obsession with Zeref. Or, if Natsu was out of control and rampaging - attacking allies.
In our case, Gray is only obsessed with END (he wants to kill Zeref and other demons as well but he's particularly / personally aiming at END). And Natsu didn't attack any ally, didn't act evil, wasn't threatening towards FT side, only Zeref.
I understand the circumstances as i said, and also Juvia just died in his arms which didn't help. But as you said, this didn't just start with the END vs Gray fight, the obsession started way before that. Imo that was forced and ultimately it made Gray followed a pontless wish blindly, and for a smart character like Gray it was out of character and disappointing.
That's only my opinion and i know a lot of people disagree with this. I don't mind, i'll be happy to agree to disagree xD
If anything, I see this as Silver's fault. Silver was basically out for revenge against the demons. He was simply going after END because it was stated to be the strongest demon, and Silver had a personal vendetta against demons in general. Silver didn't really care about who he hurts along the way. He was willing to freeze all the innocent giants to get rid of Atlas Flame's ghost, who wasn't even a demon to begin with. His magic also apparently makes you go insane, and he passed it on to Gray. Gray is going to have to start moving forward and start fighting to protect his friends instead of fighting to satisfy his father's vengeance.
Nah, I know that END was not the GM of Tartaros. We learned that some chapters ago that Mard Geer didn't know what he was talking about. Which I can see and agree with.
But that doesn't cut it. Silver doesn't have to suffer anything from END. The fact that END is evil (or causes Natsu to turn a 180 in personality), is enough of a reason for Gray or Fairy Tail to fight and extinguish it.
Any good-hearted person would fight against END.
But Silver's and Gray's past with demons causing destruction in their families is only another reason for them to fight, rather than a sole reason.
As for Zeref, he gave up on wanting to die. That is no longer his motive. His current motive is to cause destruction and annihilate humanity.
From this point forth, Zeref decided he would enter the war between Acnologia and the humans because Natsu was still far too weak to kill an immortal like him.
After the Tartaros encounter, Zeref realized it would take way too long for Natsu to get strong enough to kill an immortal, and he gave up on waiting.
Of course, Acnologia can just end his life at any moment since the beginning of the series, but he doesn't want anybody to kill him unless their name was Natsu Dragneel.
Long story short, if END can't kill him, he would rather rule the world and live alongside his brother for eternity (since he is cursed with being immortal).
Which would mean taking control of Natsu/END, and demolishing Acnologia and FT.
Then he gets his wish to live solely in a world where everything is all about Natsu and Zeref.
If anything, I see this as Silver's fault. Silver was basically out for revenge against the demons. He was simply going after END because it was stated to be the strongest demon, and Silver had a personal vendetta against demons in general. Silver didn't really care about who he hurts along the way. He was willing to freeze all the innocent giants to get rid of Atlas Flame's ghost, who wasn't even a demon to begin with. His magic also apparently makes you go insane, and he passed it on to Gray. Gray is going to have to start moving forward and start fighting to protect his friends instead of fighting to satisfy his father's vengeance.
It's not like Silver asked Keyes to use necromancy and make him a corpse so that he can have his vengeance. All Silver ever wanted was to spend time with his wife and son.
But that was cut short because of Deliora. So that's why he asked Gray to kill him when he found out that Gray was still alive.
He wanted to be with Mika.
Silver's act of vengeance is also well justified in my opinion. If he didn't know about Gray, he would demolish Tartaros from the inside out.
Then he would kill END. Both Tartaros and END were demons from the books of Zeref. In order to stop Zeref's destructive creations, he would kill all the demons.
Which would in turn provide peace in the future and less people would suffer the way he and his family did.
Fairy Tail does this all the time. They get rid of evil and fight/kill enemies.
Yet nobody is blaming them for it.
The reason why people blame Silver and Gray for their "obsession" is because of the tragic event that they experienced.
Fairy Tail as a whole doesn't get blamed because their crave for fighting/killing enemies is not connected to anything.
In my opinion, you don't need a connection to something to fight/kill. If they're evil, you get rid of them.
And actually, honestly, if you have a connection to something, it gives you more of a reason to fight it, so it is actually even more well justified.
If you want me to be blunt here, the entire fault rests on Zeref here. And Zeref alone. Ankhseram should have taught him a bigger lesson than to fool around with black magic.
Apparently, being immortal wasn't enough, Zeref still messes around when he's cursed.
It's not like Silver asked Keyes to use necromancy and make him a corpse so that he can have his vengeance. All Silver ever wanted was to spend time with his wife and son.
But that was cut short because of Deliora. So that's why he asked Gray to kill him when he found out that Gray was still alive.
He wanted to be with Mika.
Silver's act of vengeance is also well justified in my opinion. If he didn't know about Gray, he would demolish Tartaros from the inside out.
Then he would kill END. Both Tartaros and END were demons from the books of Zeref. In order to stop Zeref's destructive creations, he would kill all the demons.
Which would in turn provide peace in the future and less people would suffer the way he and his family did.
Fairy Tail does this all the time. They get rid of evil and fight/kill enemies.
Yet nobody is blaming them for it.
The reason why people blame Silver and Gray for their "obsession" is because of the tragic event that they experienced.
Fairy Tail as a whole doesn't get blamed because their crave for fighting/killing enemies is not connected to anything.
In my opinion, you don't need a connection to something to fight/kill. If they're evil, you get rid of them.
And actually, honestly, if you have a connection to something, it gives you more of a reason to fight it, so it is actually even more well justified.
If you want me to be blunt here, the entire fault rests on Zeref here. And Zeref alone. Ankhseram should have taught him a bigger lesson than to fool around with black magic.
Apparently, being immortal wasn't enough, Zeref still messes around when he's cursed.
Exactly, it was all Zeref's fault, yet Gray decided to try and kill the one person who could actually do anything to Zeref. Not to mention the fact that this manga is literally based around the theme of friendship and family and no amount of hate or desire for vengeance should have made Gray turn on his best friend so quickly. Gray's character took a complete 180 with that decision and it made no sense at all.
Fairy Tail don't tend to go after enemies that have nothing to do with them though. Usually, they attack the group that attacked them first.
END has no real connection to Silver other than the fact that he was stated by Mard Geer to be the strongest demon. Silver's family was killed by Deliora, which was just a single demon. We don't even know if Deliora is part of Tartarus.
Maybe I can justify Silver for wanting to get revenge on END because he didn't really know the truth. However, I can't justify his actions at the giants village. That tells us a lot about his mentality regarding harming innocents.
Fairy Tail don't tend to go after enemies that have nothing to do with them though. Usually, they attack the group that attacked them first.
END has no real connection to Silver other than the fact that he was stated by Mard Geer to be the strongest demon. Silver's family was killed by Deliora, which was just a single demon. We don't even know if Deliora is part of Tartarus.
Maybe I can justify Silver for wanting to get revenge on END because he didn't really know the truth. However, I can't justify his actions at the giants village. That tells us a lot about his mentality regarding harming innocents.
Not really. Fairy Tail is actually usually the one who initiates the fight. They fight anybody they know is evil. All guilds do this, idk why people act like they don't.
They have a full request board of missions where they fight against evil, people that they know nothing about or have never even met.
Gray and Natsu initiated a fight against Lyon on Galuna.
The Allied Forces were sent out to go after Oracion Seis. Oracion Seis never did anything to Fairy Tail.
In Sun Village, Fairy Tail attacked Treasure Hunters.
In Avatar Arc, Team Natsu destroyed a whole army of evil wizards during Operation Purification and then proceeded to destroy the God of War.
So pretty much, Fairy Tail attacks and destroys anybody who is evil. That is what makes them a good-hearted guild.
Silver didn't have a choice when Keyes resurrected him and made him into a living corpse. He didn't ask for that.
Gray didn't have a choice either because Silver wanted him to finish what he started.
Silver was basically waging genocide on demons. After Deliora killed his family, and he was reanimated by Tartarus, I could empathise why Silver hated demons. Though I give him more of a pass on this now, since his magic seemed to cause an insanity to hunt demons. I never liked how he passed on this legacy to Gray, but again the DeSM drawbacks make this more acceptable.
Silver was basically waging genocide on demons. After Deliora killed his family, and he was reanimated by Tartarus, I could empathise why Silver hated demons. Though I give him more of a pass on this now, since his magic seemed to cause an insanity to hunt demons. I never liked how he passed on this legacy to Gray, but again the DeSM drawbacks make this more acceptable.
Silver entrusting vengeance to Gray and giving him his magic was one of my favorite aspects in this series, hence why Tartaros is also one of my favorite arcs alongside Galuna.
I've always thought that Gray should have been a demon slayer since Galuna Island, to be honest, and I'm glad that he is a devil slayer alongside his father.
Considering what happened to Gray and Silver about their tragedy with demons, I think it makes the most sense for them to receive a magic which can conquer the fears and sorrows that they did not deserve to experience.
Plus.. let's be honest here, without DeSM, how are we gonna see Gray in his DeS form?
Even for the Gray haters, I'm pretty sure they would have to admit that Gray's DeS form is one of the most badass transformations in this series..
The hairstyle and tattoo is one thing that I think everybody thinks is "cool".
Silver entrusting vengeance to Gray and giving him his magic was one of my favorite aspects in this series, hence why Tartaros is also one of my favorite arcs alongside Galuna.
I've always thought that Gray should have been a demon slayer since Galuna Island, to be honest, and I'm glad that he is a devil slayer alongside his father.
Considering what happened to Gray and Silver about their tragedy with demons, I think it makes the most sense for them to receive a magic which can conquer the fears and sorrows that they did not deserve to experience.
Plus.. let's be honest here, without DeSM, how are we gonna see Gray in his DeS form?
Even for the Gray haters, I'm pretty sure they would have to admit that Gray's DeS form is one of the most badass transformations in this series..
The hairstyle and tattoo is one thing that I think everybody thinks is "cool".
Sure man I can understand why people like Silver handing the torch to Gray as a plot line, because of what it can set up for him. I just didn't like it because I couldn't understand why you'd put your own son on a war path.
However, I separate that entirely from Gray getting DeSM - I was good with that. He needed a boost to keep up, other people were getting upgrades so it's only fair Gray gets one. And I like his version of DeSM compared to Silver's (how Gray makes DeSM weapons). And yea, the demonising is a great design (I especially enjoy it when the hair slicks back, like your avatar).
Yes, both of them went through trauma to cause that state of mind in both of them, Gray got his darkness and Natsu began to start transforming into E.N.D (and was continuing to transform throughout that fight). Yes, Gray had pushed him back a bit at one point, but to me it looked like before Erza intervened, Natsu was starting to gain the upper hand as he transformed more, and I think that is a reasonable assertion to make seeing his attacks were clearly getting stronger too while he brushed off Gray's attacks.
All I ever said was that I thought it possible the tattoo was the trump card he was referring too. Why didn't he use it in Avatar? Why would he use his strongest stuff against people who aren't E.N.D, his sworn enemy? It doesn't make sense. It's obvious that he's able to control when he uses the power the tattoo provides just like the black marks that appear on his body which he's stated he can control.
I read the fight again and yes they were equal for most of it imo. I don't think they'd of been equals for much longer if Natsu had kept transforming, he was obviously getting stronger and there's no way to say Gray would be able to keep up if he kept transforming and getting stronger.
Darkness isn't even a thing? Let me show you the official kodansha translations of 498 that crunchyroll hosts.
There's your darkness right that, Invel said it was on the verge of releasing in Gray and it released when Juvia "died". It's what powered him up enough to defeat Invel and kept him fighting against the transforming Natsu while his wound had re-opened and he was bleeding out (check Chapter 504, Gray is clearly bleeding from his wound again).
You can not even make an assumption here, re-read the chapter mate. Before Erza intervened, in the past 3 pages before ERza, they were clashing evenly. Before that, It was Gray that got a hit on Natsu
Last 3 pages before Erza
Prior to the even tussle.
So in the end Gray got the latest extra shot on Natsu.
Stating Natsu was gaining the upperhand or that the attacks were looking stronger is baseless and non factual, even if it's your opinion.... or you must be reading a different fight or something and confused Natsu and Gray with other characters.
It's also a reasonable assertion to make that Gray was becoming more darker and hence his attacks should too become even stronger. Considering Gray has an advantage over Natsu, his attacks should be extra effective on Natsu rather than the way around, as that should be on the way of slaying magic consistency.
All I ever said was that I thought it possible the tattoo was the trump card he was referring too. Why didn't he use it in Avatar? Why would he use his strongest stuff against people who aren't E.N.D, his sworn enemy? It doesn't make sense. It's obvious that he's able to control when he uses the power the tattoo provides just like the black marks that appear on his body which he's stated he can control.
Why he didn't he use it in Avatar arc? Gee I dunno maybe he's fighting Zeref's strongest appointed army he should be using his strongest attacks.
It would not be called a trump card because Gray has used his tattoo a year ago. You call something a trump card when it's something new and initiative. Makes sense right? What Gray has is a trump card of which he has not shown.
Let's be real, Gray could not completely control the power of his magic when he fought END.
Gray was obviously getting stronger not just Natsu.
Clearly "there's no way to say Gray would be able to keep up if he kept transforming and getting stronger." Clearly Mashima the author of the manga, disagrees with you.
Oh really? Then there's no way of Natsu being able to keep up with Gray if he continues to demonize, or use his trump card. Oh and let's point out that Gray got the last shot on Natsu.
Sure man I can understand why people like Silver handing the torch to Gray as a plot line, because of what it can set up for him. I just didn't like it because I couldn't understand why you'd put your own son on a war path.
However, I separate that entirely from Gray getting DeSM - I was good with that. He needed a boost to keep up, other people were getting upgrades so it's only fair Gray gets one. And I like his version of DeSM compared to Silver's (how Gray makes DeSM weapons). And yea, the demonising is a great design (I especially enjoy it when the hair slicks back, like your avatar).
In a way Igneel indirectly passed the torch to Natsu to be again be slated on a war path for revenge against the strongest entity of the series.
I like Gray's plot line, it makes a lot of sense (minus his fight and reasoning with END which he wasn't himself) because he's shown to be an avenger, but also a guy who cares deeply about his comrades that he will do anything to reassure that they are safe.
Demon Gray is one of the badass designs of the series for sure.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
@Takuan, you're a good guy, but I have to disagree with you and don't like the reasonings you are typing right now because you are being extremely unfair to Gray and giving him zero benefit of doubt especially when he deserves to be given a lot of benefit of doubt.
Especially when mainly because you are attributing a corrupted Gray and characterizing it as a development.
Gray was corrupted, traumatized, mentally out of it, believed to be lied to, and so we can't say he regressed because it was not Gray. It was the situation itself that made Gray do what he did.
Full view of my opinion and some facts added, read my response to you at favourite character thread. God bless.
Also where is Emperor Spriggan, he's missing. He's usually on the case of defending Gray and making good points but sadly he's not here.
You can not even make an assumption here, re-read the chapter mate. Before Erza intervened, in the past 3 pages before ERza, they were clashing evenly.
Natsu was clearly gaining more attack power as he transformed during the fight, and to me it looks a bit like even though they're pretty close when clashing, Gray is getting pushed back slightly being on that one leg and all. To me it makes sense, and it's my view on it.
Natsu broke out of it completely unphased. If you go back further in the fight, they were exchanging attacks and this was part of the exchange. That's not an extra shot.
Stating Natsu was gaining the upperhand or that the attacks were looking stronger is baseless and non factual, even if it's your opinion.... or you must be reading a different fight or something and confused Natsu and Gray with other characters.
It's also a reasonable assertion to make that Gray was becoming more darker and hence his attacks should too become even stronger. Considering Gray has an advantage over Natsu, his attacks should be extra effective on Natsu rather than the way around, as that should be on the way of slaying magic consistency.
I'm sorry, but Gray was not becoming darker. If you look through the full fight, Hiro's shading on Gray's body was inconsistent throughout, sometimes it'd be a bit faded, other times it'd be very black. It was inconsistent, so there's no proper support to that unlike saying Natsu was getting stronger, because Natsu was transforming as we saw.
Why he didn't he use it in Avatar arc? Gee I dunno maybe he's fighting Zeref's strongest appointed army he should be using his strongest attacks.
It would not be called a trump card because Gray has used his tattoo a year ago. You call something a trump card when it's something new and initiative. Makes sense right? What Gray has is a trump card of which he has not shown.
Let's be real, Gray could not completely control the power of his magic when he fought END.
Well if the tattoo isn't the trump card then why wouldn't he use it against Avatar? It's something he has at his disposal, yet he's only saved it for key moments like fighting against Tartarus, fighting against Invel or fighting against Natsu. It's clearly something he only uses in a pinch, and I'd say the tattoo is possibly the trump card. After all, it does contain Silver's magic power so it could be of some help to him.
And being real and all, where is that actually shown in the fight? Because I don't see Gray losing control of his magic.
Clearly Mashima the author of the manga, disagrees with you.
Oh really? Then there's no way of Natsu being able to keep up with Gray if he continues to demonize, or use his trump card. Oh and let's point out that Gray got the last shot on Natsu.
Okay, show me where Hiro disagrees with me. Again, Gray didn't get the last shot on Natsu, that was part of an exchange and their last attacks were blocked by Erza. Way to get that shot in.
What's to say those black marks give Gray more power anyway? I've never seen it stated that they do. If it was, show me in the official translations please. And c'mon, Natsu with a tiny bit of E.N.D transformation was able to move through magic like Age Seal somehow because of his power, Gray couldn't do the same so I think if Natsu went full E.N.D, he'd be too strong for gray even though that'd be the only time Gray's devil slayer magic would then have slayer advantage.
to each his own xD
