So if Invel isn't expecting Gray to be that fast, then is the blitz really that impressive?
Imo Invel was distracted by his own thoughts. If you want to add in the he didn't expect such speed from Gray, I'm okay with that. But if Invel can react to the second one, then there are obviously factors outside of Gray's speed that lead to the first blitz. Hence the blitz is not solely due to Gray's speed.
To me there is no reason to think that Gray's speed is exceptional compared to other characters. His magic doesn't assist him, so his speed is essentially a combo of strength and agility.
Laxus(w/lightning) > Ajeel > Wahl >= Erza ~ Gray. That's how I think speed ranks if we're considering these 5 characters. The difference in speed gap is close enough that Gray can land hits on Laxus, and Gray can dodge some of Laxus' attacks. Imo speed isn't a big deal when you get to characters of this caliber, unless you have a truly fast speed magic like Jellal's meteor, or when Laxus turns into lightning (rare in battle).
But Natsu's not going to shatter though. If anything Invel's freeze just stopped Natsu in his tracks. Invel would be able to land free hits, but Invel hasn't shown a single offensive move that can shatter or oneshot someone like Natsu.
Even if Invel cannot insta-shatter Natsu, he would still be able to hit Natsu. That's all he need to do, Natsu can't move, dodge, block, or defend.
Think of it this way.
Dimaria stops her opponents from moving by freezing time right?
Are her sword slashes anything out of the ordinary?
No, the reason why the fanbase thinks that Dimaria is hax is because she can oneshot people when they are unable to defend themselves... she can simply just slice their heads off before resuming the flow of time.
This is the exact case with Invel. Once Invel freezes Natsu, any of his attacks would be sufficient to slice Natsu's head off of his body.
It's true you don't need RL, or a tech that is as strong as it to win. I was merely stating that I wouldn't say Gray has a tech that is this strong (not counting Gray's trump because Idk what that is).
If you take away Wall's immunity then he's super-susceptible to lightning and would be shredded easily, I agree.
I don't know what you mean by this. If Laxus could defeat Wahl with, say, a full-powered Raging Bolt, then what keeps Gray from utterly destroying Wahl.
A full-powered black-marked Ice Devil Zeroth Destructive Bow spell should be more than enough to kill Wahl.
Immunity to an element makes a large difference as you can see with Wahl vs. Laxus and Silver vs. Gray.
I acknowledge Laxus' strength, but at the same time, this dude isn't some god named Gildartz.
Just because Wall has no immunity it doesn't mean he's a glass cannon now. He has reasonable durability feats. None of those moves are oneshotting. Invel took Long Sword slashes twice. The first one drew blood when he was distracted, showing this tech's optimal damage output. The second time Invel blocked it with his hand and used his Ice magic defensively, making a blizzard. The power of Long Sword is roughly equivalent to a slash from Erza's Neptune sword that she used on Ajeel (Invel's physicals would be similar to Ajeel's).
Wahl isn't a glass cannon, but him having low durability makes sense.
He is an offensive Spriggan, he relies on his power to take his opponents out before they can do any damage to him.
If Laxus took Wahl out with one Lightning spell... an element that he is supposed to be 100% immune to...then that tells you that his durability is pretty damn low.
Which makes a lot of sense, for a Spriggan his tier, he isn't perfect.
For most mages/wizards, you sacrifice defense for offense and vice-versa.
Judging from his feats against Laxus, it's safe to assume that Wahl lacks major defense, but also makes that up with his offense.
Even if Invel cannot insta-shatter Natsu, he would still be able to hit Natsu. That's all he need to do, Natsu can't move, dodge, block, or defend.
Think of it this way.
Dimaria stops her opponents from moving by freezing time right?
Are her sword slashes anything out of the ordinary?
No, the reason why the fanbase thinks that Dimaria is hax is because she can oneshot people when they are unable to defend themselves... she can simply just slice their heads off before resuming the flow of time.
This is the exact case with Invel. Once Invel freezes Natsu, any of his attacks would be sufficient to slice Natsu's head off of his body.
Invel's attacks don't really cut their opponents though. Rather they seem to just freeze them over. When Invel hits Gray with the ice, Gray isn't getting cut. He's being covered in patches of ice though.
I don't consider the attacks I just mentioned to be stronger than attacks like Ajeel's ramal sayf. I consider both ramal sayf and Invel's attacks to be on base Wahl's level, and below that of assault Wahl's attacks. Especially Etherion, which I consider to give Wahl the best offense out of any Spriggan except for August and Irene.
Imo Invel was distracted by his own thoughts. If you want to add in the he didn't expect such speed from Gray, I'm okay with that. But if Invel can react to the second one, then there are obviously factors outside of Gray's speed that lead to the first blitz. Hence the blitz is not solely due to Gray's speed.
I think becoming half demonized does change Gray's physical capabilities though, and so it's understandable to me if Gray gets a boost in speed. Though I don't think it's anything like Jellal's speed in meteor, it's probably a step up from Gray's base form.
lol guys. Wall doesn't have low durability. he took zero damage from getting blitzed by Laxus in his base form and Assault form. he is immune to electricity but he is not immune to physical blows. the only reason why he was killed was because RED LIGHTNING WAS SUPER EFFECTIVE AGAINST WALL. it was as or more effective than DeS Gray vs Mard Geer. it was said that Machias race are vulnerable to any type of electricity but Wall found a way to use that electricity to make himself stronger. Laxus changed the properties of his lightning so that he can damage Wall but it was still LIGHTNING.
also, Wall can blast his opponents when he hits them and e will surely hit Gray
also, Wall' AoE
being completely immune in this case is different than resistance. resistance gives you a bonus defense against the type of magic. Wall is immune because he turned lightning into advantage, AKA making himself stronger. Red Lightning is lightning but Wall cannot make himself immune to it which means that his vulnerability still stand. saying that Wall has low durability is ridiculous.
Wall not absorbing electricity(Red Lightning)means that it bypassed his immunity and that means his vulnerability still remains which means that Red Lightning got a big bonus damage against him.
his one physical blow send Laxus flying through a city block. he can spam missiles, Anti Matter Laser, bullets faster than Gray' DeS magic which will keep Gray on his toes. he can freeze some attacks but not all of them and he will be hit eventually, long enough for Wall to charge up his Etherion Cannon. also, keep in mind that Wall has his Weakness bot, a bot who will spam his Weakness bots while Wall can charge up his weapons. his Weakness bots are fast to create. he just needs to send bullets or Missiles to keep Gray occupied and create Weakness bot that creates Weakness bots. after that, its game over.
Invel's attacks don't really cut their opponents though. Rather they seem to just freeze them over. When Invel hits Gray with the ice, Gray isn't getting cut. He's being covered in patches of ice though.
I don't consider the attacks I just mentioned to be stronger than attacks like Ajeel's ramal sayf.
And I consider both ramal sayf and Invel's attacks to be on base Wahl's level, and below that of assault Wahl's attacks. Especially Etherion, which I consider to give Wahl the best offense out of any Spriggan except for August and Irene.
1. Invel has been as casual as a Spriggan can be up to this point.
2. Ajeel when fighting Erza was giving everything he got. He was desperate to win towards the end of the battle and was panicked when he saw Jupiter.
Therefore, you are comparing Invel in his base state to Ajeel who is fighting for his life.
Second thing is that, I know you are trying hard to prove that Invel is harmless to Natsu, but who said slicing Natsu's head off is the only solution?
In case you tried to forget, Invel can freeze a person's heart or cast ice lock.
The whole point is that Natsu is completely frozen and cannot react to Invel's attack.
Whether it is simply cutting Natsu's head off, freezing Natsu heart or ice lock and making him his puppet, there are many ways that Invel could kill Natsu.
Another quick thing I would like to address is that you guys are seriously downplaying the Spriggans to the point that it almost surprises me.
One things that you guys should know is that power is not everything in a battle or fight.
Look, I know all of your favorite characters are Natsu, Laxus, and Jellal because they scream their lungs out and make cool oversized explosions and shit...
But not every strong person is loud, have oversized muscles, and have an atomic bomb in their hand.
Some characters have unique properties in their magic that make them a formidable foe, despite the appearance of their magic.
It's almost plain obvious who is stronger between Invel and Ajeel.
Well even though Ajeel broke out of Ice Make: Silver, he was still affected by it... In a fight, every second counts, so if Gray can't utilize this spell offensively, he can still prevent himself from getting hit by freezing them. Besides, Gray successfully froze the sand golem which is a notable feat in itself.
I would also like to add that Ice Make: Ice Impact has decent AoE. Refer to the bottom-left panel for its actual size. If that attack actually connects, the destructive capacity would be massive. Technically speaking, Invel froze it and shattered it so someone like Wahl would have a tougher time blocking that attack.
My overall point was that Wahl really has no AoE feats which is somewhat true. His missiles are the only spells he has and they can be destroyed pretty easily. As for his other attacks, they are all ranged-based (not a representation of AoE).
Wahl's Anti-Material Magic Cannon falls under the category of range and not AoE. Think of Bisca sniping a target that's far away. It may travel some distance (range) but there is no area of effect. Besides, this attack literally takes 2 pages just to cast.
Their speed would roughly be the same. Invel was distracted the first slash. The second time, when Invel's interest was piqued, he was fast enough to react with his hand. It should also be noted that Invel hasn't even tried to evade any of Gray's attacks. That either speaks to Invel's superiority, or Invel's lack of evasive capability. The latter would have a bearing on how impressive Gray's speed is.
I don't necessarily think Invel was distracted the first time. I think he was just more prepared the second time. Also, Gray literally blitzed Invel the first time. But the second time, he was stationary. I'm not just talking about combat speed (although that is important) but also movement speed.
It could be that Invel is slow or that Gray is fast. But because we have no evidence of Invel being slow when dodging attacks, I tend to lean more on the fact that Gray is fast.
That display is likely darkness consuming Gray (a power up that he only received after Juvia died). This is not Gray's MP before ch 499. His MP is below Makarov's.
I don't think Juvia has anything to do with the darkness consuming Gray. Invel took note of it before Juvia even broke free of the ice.
I believe it has more to do with the use of Ice Devil Slaying Magic. Kind of like how the use of Dragon Slaying Magic allows a dragon slayer to attain Dragon Force. The only difference is that instead of transforming into a dragon, devil slayers are just being consumed by darkness (not sure if this is a metaphor for demons).
lol guys. Wall doesn't have low durability. he took zero damage from getting blitzed by Laxus in his base form Assault form. he is immune to electricity but he is not immune to physical blows. the only reason why he was killed was because RED LIGHTNING WAS SUPER EFFECTIVE AGAINST WALL. it was as or more effective than DeS Gray vs Mard Geer. it was said that Machias race are vulnerable to any type of electricity but Wall found a way to use that electricity to make himself stronger. Laxus changed the properties of his lightning so that he can damage Wall but it was still LIGHTNING.
being completely immune in this case is different than resistance. resistance gives you a bonus defense against the type of magic. Wall is immune because he turned lightning into advantage, AKA making himself stronger. Red Lightning is lightning but Wall cannot make himself immune to it which means that his vulnerability still stand. saying that Wall has low durability is ridiculous.
Wall not absorbing electricity(Red Lightning)means that it bypassed his immunity and that means his vulnerability still remains which means that Red Lightning got a big bonus damage against him.
his one physical blow send Laxus flying through a city block. he can spam missiles, Anti Matter Laser, bullets faster than Gray' DeS magic which will keep Gray on his toes. he can freeze some attacks but not all of them and he will be hit eventually, long enough for Wall to charge up his Etherion Cannon. also, keep in mind that Wall has his Weakness bot, a bot who will spam his Weakness bots while Wall can charge up his weapons. his Weakness bots are fast to create. he just needs to send bullets or Missiles to keep Gray occupied and create Weakness bot that creates Weakness bots. after that, its game over.
Here is the problem I have with this though. I don't remember the manga ever stating that Red Lightning was super effective against Wahl. The only confirmation we got was that Wahl was immune to electricity. How Laxus' attack bypassed that restriction is still unknown to this day (at least for me). It was assumed by the majority of Laxus' fanbase that the qualities of Red Lightning were different and that it was super effective against Wahl... But that was just because it was the only other explanation besides the "Nakama power-up" which I lean more on. Anyways, I don't mind the fact that you think Wahl has decent durability, but to say it is high? I just can't agree. The feats just don't show it. And Wahl was smashed to pieces.
As for Wahl's weakness robots, they will have negligible impact in this fight. Gray can destroy every single one of them instantly due to his high AoE.
Although I see why you would pick Wahl over Gray, I don't agree. Especially with that level difficulty. If Wahl were to win, I would place it at High Difficulty (minimum), if not Extreme Difficulty (preferably). Just to clarify, I'm not talking about Base Gray here. This is Gray as a character overall. With that said, Gray is being massively underrated and I think he will prove us wrong by the next few chapters.
1. Invel has been as casual as a Spriggan can be up to this point.
2. Ajeel when fighting Erza was giving everything he got. He was desperate to win towards the end of the battle and was panicked when he saw Jupiter.
Therefore, you are comparing Invel in his base state to Ajeel who is fighting for his life.
Second thing is that, I know you are trying hard to prove that Invel is harmless to Natsu, but who said slicing Natsu's head off is the only solution?
In case you tried to forget, Invel can freeze a person's heart or cast ice lock.
The whole point is that Natsu is completely frozen and cannot react to Invel's attack.
Whether it is simply cutting Natsu's head off, freezing Natsu heart or ice lock and making him his puppet, there are many ways that Invel could kill Natsu.
Another quick thing I would like to address is that you guys are seriously downplaying the Spriggans to the point that it almost surprises me.
One things that you guys should know is that power is not everything in a battle or fight.
Look, I know all of your favorite characters are Natsu, Laxus, and Jellal because they scream their lungs out and make cool oversized explosions and shit...
But not every strong person is loud, have oversized muscles, and have an atomic bomb in their hand.
Some characters have unique properties in their magic that make them a formidable foe, despite the appearance of their magic.
It's almost plain obvious who is stronger between Invel and Ajeel.
Ajeel was angry at the fact Erza managed to damage him. Fighting for his life is an over-exaggeration. Sand world or Sands of Death might be a spell that takes a lot out of Ajeel, but something like Ramal Sayf should be pretty simple. It's not like Ajeel was freaked out over Jupiter cannon either. He blocked it casually when it fired its first shot. He ended up getting blindsided and being knocked off balance, but he wasn't really afraid of its power.
Invel doesn't literally freeze a person's heart. His ice-lock simply steals away a person's ability to form rational thoughts. Perhaps he could control Natsu into committing suicide, but that would be the only way I can see Invel being able to kill Natsu. He wouldn't be able to simply kill Natsu with attacks.
I can understand if you say that power isn't everything when the characters rely on hax. However, neither Wahl nor Gray can rely on hax when fighting each other. I suppose you can argue that Wahl's ability to cancel anti-magic particles might somehow effect demon-powers, but even that is stretching it.
Ajeel was angry at the fact Erza managed to damage him. Fighting for his life is an over-exaggeration. Sand world or Sands of Death might be a spell that takes a lot out of Ajeel, but something like Ramal Sayf should be pretty simple. It's not like Ajeel was freaked out over Jupiter cannon either. He blocked it casually when it fired its first shot. He ended up getting blindsided and being knocked off balance, but he wasn't really afraid of its power.
Invel doesn't literally freeze a person's heart. His ice-lock simply steals away a person's ability to form rational thoughts. Perhaps he could control Natsu into committing suicide, but that would be the only way I can see Invel being able to kill Natsu. He wouldn't be able to simply kill Natsu with attacks.
Totally missed my point by a mile. It's not about how Ajeel felt during the fight.
The point is that you are comparing two very different situations.
You were comparing a casual Invel to an angry (or whatever you want to call it) Ajeel.
That is a premature comparison as it is misleading since Invel has achieved much of the same feat as full-powered Ajeel, while in his base state.
Ramal Sayf took a lot more energy out of Ajeel than Ice Lock (or the spell casted on Mavis) took out of Invel.
Lol dude... of course it doesn't literally freeze a person's heart...
I know it's not literally otherwise Mavis would have already been long gone and dead.
Like I said, Ice Lock makes them a puppet, I literally said that in my last post, but whatever.
You said it yourself, Invel can make Natsu unable to control his body and suicide himself.
The point is that Invel has the capability to kill Natsu while Ajeel does not.
I don't see the argument for Invel = Ajeel.
I know that Invel looked like a dumbass last chapter when he said "he made a gross miscalculation", but Ajeel is a bigger fool than Invel ever could be.
It's pretty damn obvious that Invel >>> Ajeel since Invel could have been a threat to Natsu, while Ajeel was a fodder to Natsu.
Ajeel can cast Sands of Death casually. He was going to use that attack to presumably bury Makarov and suck him dry. I don't put ramal sayf on the same level as sands of death, so I see no reason why it would be considered an exhaustive move on Ajeel's part. Moreover, sand world is what Ajeel did to kick it up a notch.
Invel has the capability to kill Natsu, but not in a fashion that involves using attacks. Invel isn't more a threat to Natsu than Ajeel because his attacks are stronger than Ajeel's. He's more a threat because he has an ability that can potentially allow Natsu to kill himself. Wahl happens to be a Spriggan that relies a lot on brawling it out with his targets. Comparing Gray's ability to trade blows with Invel is more relevant than comparing Gray's ability to counter ice lock. In fact, Gray didn't even counter ice lock. Ajeel would not be a fodder to Natsu either. I don't see any Spriggan being a fodder tbh.
These are the type of punches Wahl throws in base form. I would argue that they are stronger than most attacks that other Spriggan level characters have in their arsenal, exceptions being August, Irene, God Serena, and maybe Dimaria. His assault mode attacks are probably the strongest out of any Spriggan we've seen so far except for Irene and August's though. Now Wahl is performing these feats against Laxus, which is generally assumed to have greater durability than Natsu-tier characters. Saying that Invel can kill Natsu by making him commit suicide doesn't help me understand why Gray would be able to out-brawl Wahl.
Ajeel can cast Sands of Death casually. He was going to use that attack to presumably bury Makarov and suck him dry. I don't put ramal sayf on the same level as sands of death, so I see no reason why it would be considered an exhaustive move on Ajeel's part. Moreover, sand world is what Ajeel did to kick it up a notch.
We know for a fact that Ajeel has pretty much showed us everything he has in his arsenal.
Whether he casted casually or not, it was entirely up to him. The most likely case is that Ajeel was cocky and didn't put much effort in his spells, but it was still nothing impressive considering his attacks can be dispelled casually by Natsu.
Invel >>> Ajeel as a whole, and judging from your response, I don't think you disagree. You are simply just being an advocate for Ajeel for some unknown reason.
Invel has the capability to kill Natsu, but not in a fashion that involves using attacks. Invel isn't more a threat to Natsu than Ajeel because his attacks are stronger than Ajeel's. He's more a threat because he has an ability that can potentially allow Natsu to kill himself. Wahl happens to be a Spriggan that relies a lot on brawling it out with his targets. Comparing Gray's ability to trade blows with Invel is more relevant than comparing Gray's ability to counter ice lock. In fact, Gray didn't even counter ice lock.
It honestly doesn't matter which fashion he does it in. You can call it attacks, but it is just the nature of Invel's magic.
Obviously it is superior to Ajeel given the reasoning above.....
As I stated before, Wahl has impressive offensive capabilities, but in turn, lack majorly in defense gauging from his 100% immunity to regular lightning and Laxus' RL.
These are the type of punches Wahl throws in base form. I would argue that they are stronger than most attacks that other Spriggan level characters have in their arsenal, exceptions being God Serena and maybe Dimaria. His assault mode attacks are probably the strongest out of any Spriggan we've seen so far except for Irene and August's though. Now Wahl is performing these feats against Laxus, which is generally assumed to have greater durability than Natsu-tier characters. Saying that Invel can kill Natsu by making him commit suicide doesn't help me understand why Gray would be able to out-brawl Wahl.
Your panel as evidence here means nothing to me as I had already discussed this with @Brandish.
In case you did not read our discussion though (I don't expect you to), this is a prime example of double-handicapped Laxus.
The reason why Laxus wasn't fighting back for the majority of the battle was because of his sickness.
The sickness part hindered Laxus' defensive capabilities while Wahl's immunity to lightning hindered Laxus' offensive capabilities.
That was the point of double-handicapped Laxus.
And honestly, when you are sick, do you feel like flying at 100mph to dodge incoming attacks and trade blows?
No, the fact that Laxus was double-handicapped explains why Wahl's attacks were a lot more effective than it should be.
Wahl was also able to land much more hits on Laxus than he should have because Laxus being double-handicapped caused him to be unable to dodge, block, or defend any incoming attacks.
I stand my ground that although Laxus is an excellent fighter and Wahl is a worthy opponent of being an elite Spriggan, a healthy full-powered Gray under neutral conditions should have no problem taking Wahl out mid-high difficulty..
Laxus was not weakened in the first part of the battle lol. he got weakened when Wall entered his Assault mode. his hits that he got on Laxus in the first part of the battle are LEGIT. plus, Wall was stated to bust the entire Hargeon and Magnolia if he wanted to in his base form so his AoE is solid.
I already explained why Red Lightning killed Wall. if it was just a simple stronger lightning then he would have absorbed it. Laxus just added another property so that Wall couldn't analyze it which bypassed his immunity and Wall got killed because without his immunity he is vulnerable to lightning and Red Lighting is still lightning. Volume 55 confirms my statement.
also, I never said that his bots will beat Gray. they will see Gray' DeS weakness and they will give Wall 5 - 10 seconds to activate his Etherion Cannon or to blast him with Missiles, Anti - Matter Laser, Bullets, Railgun, Fire Blast that scorched the sky and in the end he will use either Super Long Distance Anti - Material Magic Cannon on a close range(Makarov and Laxus were in the guild at the moment when Wall fired it from 400km which indicates that they couldn't stop it) or Etherion which is an overkill. Gray' sword barely did any damage to Invel, at all. Wall can take it just fine. he wouldn't even had the chance to attack him as he did against Invel.
Wall wins with high diff.
Gray can only win if he goes on a rampage like he will against Invel but currently he can't.
That's more or less how I see Invel's insta freeze. His magic is said to freeze all things. His magic was not enough to completely freeze Natsu, but it could stop him and his base flames. Invel should be able to land 1 good offensive spell for free. But Natsu's not shattering, is my main point.
I don't know what you mean by this. If Laxus could defeat Wahl with, say, a full-powered Raging Bolt, then what keeps Gray from utterly destroying Wahl.
A full-powered black-marked Ice Devil Zeroth Destructive Bow spell should be more than enough to kill Wahl.
Immunity to an element makes a large difference as you can see with Wahl vs. Laxus and Silver vs. Gray.
I acknowledge Laxus' strength, but at the same time, this dude isn't some god named Gildartz.
I think Red Lightning is the only attack that Laxus has that can actually hurt Wall. His 'yellow' lightning didn't seem to work. But if you took away Wall's immunity then he - due to being a machina - becomes super-susceptible to lightning damage. So a full powered raging bolt would likely do zero damage. Laxus' nuke in Alvarez would do nothing too I imagine.
Wahl isn't a glass cannon, but him having low durability makes sense.
He is an offensive Spriggan, he relies on his power to take his opponents out before they can do any damage to him.
If Laxus took Wahl out with one Lightning spell... an element that he is supposed to be 100% immune to...then that tells you that his durability is pretty damn low.
Which makes a lot of sense, for a Spriggan his tier, he isn't perfect.
For most mages/wizards, you sacrifice defense for offense and vice-versa.
Judging from his feats against Laxus, it's safe to assume that Wahl lacks major defense, but also makes that up with his offense.
Well God Serena is an offensive Spriggan, but his durability is quite outstanding, likely due to being a slayer. Wall is a machina, so his durability could be different to a human Spriggan, like Invel. On feats I don't think there's a reason why Wall should be considered weak for durability. Every one of Laxus' CQC attacks packed lightning and physical force. He didn't scratch. Maybe that is due to his metallic/alloy body, so machina's wear and tear might be different to a persons.
I do acknowledge your point about the lightning, I'm not going to deny that, which means you could be right. This fight is one of the worst to judge (Laxus vs Wall)... as there is a lot of guess work involved.
I think becoming half demonized does change Gray's physical capabilities though, and so it's understandable to me if Gray gets a boost in speed. Though I don't think it's anything like Jellal's speed in meteor, it's probably a step up from Gray's base form.
I do agree with this. We know his magic power output is greater when using the black marks, so it's reasonable that his stats go up (speed, strength, durability even).
Well even though Ajeel broke out of Ice Make: Silver, he was still affected by it... In a fight, every second counts, so if Gray can't utilize this spell offensively, he can still prevent himself from getting hit by freezing them. Besides, Gray successfully froze the sand golem which is a notable feat in itself.
I do agree that freezing the Golem along with the extra AoE is a notable feat, but Ajeel broke quite easily from it. I think Gray could follow up with an attack after Silver, but I can also see Wahl breaking out in time.
My overall point was that Wahl really has no AoE feats which is somewhat true. His missiles are the only spells he has and they can be destroyed pretty easily. As for his other attacks, they are all ranged-based (not a representation of AoE).
Wahl's Anti-Material Magic Cannon falls under the category of range and not AoE. Think of Bisca sniping a target that's far away. It may travel some distance (range) but there is no area of effect. Besides, this attack literally takes 2 pages just to cast.
I think their AoE is relatively even. If Gray is going to fight with DeS magic, then he'll mainly use CQC or mid range attacks. I think there is also a difference in missiles in Impulsive and Assault form.
You do make a good point about range and AoE. I tend to merge them, because if you can aim at something at a certain distance, you can make an effect at the distance. However AoE is a different term really so you are correct.
I don't necessarily think Invel was distracted the first time. I think he was just more prepared the second time. Also, Gray literally blitzed Invel the first time. But the second time, he was stationary. I'm not just talking about combat speed (although that is important) but also movement speed.
It could be that Invel is slow or that Gray is fast. But because we have no evidence of Invel being slow when dodging attacks, I tend to lean more on the fact that Gray is fast.
Well as some have pointed out I might be going overboard with the use of the word distraction. And the point about being more prepared is probably right. But if that's the case, then I would say Gray's speed can blitz a less than optimal Invel, but cannot blitz an optimal Invel. If that makes sense.
I tend to think that sword slashes are also quick moves, because the person is focusing on delivering the slash. It's probably when Gray or Erza is fastest. However, like Ajeel, Invel seems to have the reaction time to move or defend against a sword attack when facing someone of Gray's speed.
I don't think Juvia has anything to do with the darkness consuming Gray. Invel took note of it before Juvia even broke free of the ice.
I believe it has more to do with the use of Ice Devil Slaying Magic. Kind of like how the use of Dragon Slaying Magic allows a dragon slayer to attain Dragon Force. The only difference is that instead of transforming into a dragon, devil slayers are just being consumed by darkness (not sure if this is a metaphor for demons).
I think darkness is a source of power that anyone has (Invel says this in the panel you provided). Zeref black magic is said to be sourced from darkness too, so it's not exclusive to DeS users. I do agree that Devil Slaying magic has been the cause of Gray's darkness, even Invel says DeS magic would drive anyone insane, and Natsu hinted at this in Avatar arc. But according to Invel, Gray's darkness was one the verge of spilling out, and killing Juvia would full awaken it. So that's why he created the Ice Lock situation. Gray himself was unaware of this source of power I presume.
If Gray's MP is truly Spriggan+ when enraged (could be, we'll know in ch500 I presume), then I'll withdraw this comment.
That's more or less how I see Invel's insta freeze. His magic is said to freeze all things. His magic was not enough to completely freeze Natsu, but it could stop him and his base flames. Invel should be able to land 1 good offensive spell for free. But Natsu's not shattering, is my main point.
Fair enough, I get your main point, but as I already discussed with @Axiomus, there are other ways of Invel potentially killing Natsu, besides landing 1 good strike to Natsu's neck.
For example, Ice Lock or freezing Natsu's heart and making him a puppet.
Of course, in my opinion, this already puts Invel above Ajeel because while Invel can put Natsu in a dangerous situation, Ajeel cannot.
I think Red Lightning is the only attack that Laxus has that can actually hurt Wall. His 'yellow' lightning didn't seem to work. But if you took away Wall's immunity then he - due to being a machina - becomes super-susceptible to lightning damage. So a full powered raging bolt would likely do zero damage. Laxus' nuke in Alvarez would do nothing too I imagine.
If you took out Wahl's immunity, then a full powered Raging Bolt or nuke would likely rip Wahl's body to shreds.
Him being a Machina should in theory be a disadvantage because it is metal. It would make a good conductor for lightning to pass through, which would end up frying all of his circuits and systems.
Well God Serena is an offensive Spriggan, but his durability is quite outstanding, likely due to being a slayer. Wall is a machina, so his durability could be different to a human Spriggan, like Invel. On feats I don't think there's a reason why Wall should be considered weak for durability. Every one of Laxus' CQC attacks packed lightning and physical force. He didn't scratch. Maybe that is due to his metallic/alloy body, so machina's wear and tear might be different to a persons.
I do acknowledge your point about the lightning, I'm not going to deny that, which means you could be right. This fight is one of the worst to judge (Laxus vs Wall)... as there is a lot of guess work involved.
It's a possibility that God Serena is an offensive and defensive Spriggan, but I just don't think so myself.
If we look strictly at his feats, he has had nothing but poor durability.
Sure, he tanked hits from the GoI and Jura, but that isn't anything impressive considering we learned that the GoI were never a match for high-tiered Spriggans to begin with.
In my opinion, I think God Serena has rather poor durability like Wahl, but because I don't have enough evidence, I can give you the benefit of the doubt and label God Serena with both good offense and defense.
However, even that's rare and I doubt that Wahl follows in the same footsteps as God Serena if that were the case.
I think I have reasonable evidence to believe that Wahl has a rather low durability, and logically, it makes sense:
If Wahl is 100% immune to the element lightning, in theory, it should be impossible for him to be defeated by it.
But Laxus did end up defeating Wahl with the element lightning (given it was his strongest lightning attack).
Logically, this means that Wahl can be defeated by lightning.
Therefore, if you take his "immunity" away... lightning on the caliber of raging bolt should be more than enough to put Wahl 6 feet under.
