I'm going to give it for Gray High-difficulty I think for now ..
There is still hype for Gray ace so it can lower it overall but Erza will probably also get power boost from her encounter with Irene
Before Gray's power boost I'd say Erza but now Gray take this. He has Invel's Ice which would mean she getting flash frozen just being near Gray. In the upcoming chapters I'm pretty sure Gray and Erza power levels would pretty much even out bcs Erza has an inbound power up due to some hidden ability and Gray has his Ice upgrade and still has his "Ace".
Still, that spell was performed by re-molding Invel's ice, adding in his own magic power too. He could probably replicate the feat under his own power, but it'd take more out of him. Either that or he wouldn't be able to replicate the feat.
Can you clarify what you mean by Tartaros level spells?
IDZ Long Sword in this arc performed by Gray > Long Sword in Tartaros arc performed by Gray.
Still, that spell was performed by re-molding Invel's ice, adding in his own magic power too. He could probably replicate the feat under his own power, but it'd take more out of him. Either that or he wouldn't be able to replicate the feat.
He already learned Ice Devil Zeroth Long Sword in Tartaros Arc. So although it does get stronger through training, the damage output is not significantly different than before.
In other words, it's his casual spell.
Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist though is a new spell that he learned through training.
By default, it's a more advance spell to cast and the damage output is a lot higher.
If I make an analogy, it would resemble Natsu's Demolition Fist.
Therefore, Gray using Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist on Erza while being serious would overpower her to the point he wouldn't need the emotional anger he felt against Invel.
He already learned Ice Devil Zeroth Long Sword in Tartaros Arc. So although it does get stronger through training, the damage output is not significantly different than before.
In other words, it's his casual spell.
Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist though is a new spell that he learned through training.
By default, it's a more advance spell to cast and the damage output is a lot higher.
If I make an analogy, it would resemble Natsu's Demolition Fist.
Therefore, Gray using Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist on Erza while being serious would overpower her to the point he wouldn't need the emotional anger he felt against Invel.
Lol
I thought you hated nakama power boost. The way you kept on talking about erza is weak because all the fight she won was because of that.
Ah well
I don't know how correct you are on tartaros level spell thing. But I don't think you should use it here.
Especially since erza has only used gmg level spells uptill now. Which basically enough to handle springgan.
Anyway
Erza wins mid diff
(judging from the damage erza water sword did to ajeel compared with gray long sword damage to invel)
But if erza kills juvia then she loses mid diff
Lol
I thought you hated nakama power boost. The way you kept on talking about erza is weak because all the fight she won was because of that.
Ah well
I don't know how correct you are on tartaros level spell thing. But I don't think you should use it here.
Especially since erza has only used gmg level spells uptill now. Which basically enough to handle springgan.
Erza's GMG spells are the strongest she got.. That's why we have to use those feats.
As for Gray, unlike Erza, he actually trained seriously during the timeskip, so naturally, he would have stronger level and more advanced spells than Erza.
It's fair, I don't know what you gain from saying that Erza only used GMG spells.
Erza only used GMG spells because that is the strongest she got.
Let me remind you that Erza was fighting for her life... she put everything she had into her battle against Ajeel.
Sorry to break it to ya, but that's as good as Erza is ever going to get at the moment.
One last thing, PoF and PiS is restricted in this specific thread. OP stated it, so follow it.
So if you say anything about Erza having even a little PoF, I can technically ignore that part of your post because PoF and PiS is clearly banned.
Please read the OP of this thread before posting and arguing.
Anyway
Erza wins mid diff
(judging from the damage erza water sword did to ajeel compared with gray long sword damage to invel)
But if erza kills juvia then she loses mid diff
He already learned Ice Devil Zeroth Long Sword in Tartaros Arc. So although it does get stronger through training, the damage output is not significantly different than before.
In other words, it's his casual spell.
Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist though is a new spell that he learned through training.
By default, it's a more advance spell to cast and the damage output is a lot higher.
If I make an analogy, it would resemble Natsu's Demolition Fist.
Therefore, Gray using Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist on Erza while being serious would overpower her to the point he wouldn't need the emotional anger he felt against Invel.
It's probably a higher spell that Long Sword, but it wouldn't be a huge step up.
If Gray nominated it as a Secret Art, I would say it's definitely stronger.
It wouldn't be as strong as Demolition Fist. That's Natsu enhancing his flames, from FD to FDK. If Gray could do the same with ice (like maybe he did by using Invel's demonic ice), than perhaps a comparison can be made. Right now the damage output and the magic itself are different, imo.
It's probably a higher spell that Long Sword, but it wouldn't be a huge step up.
If Gray nominated it as a Secret Art, I would say it's definitely stronger.
It wouldn't be as strong as Demolition Fist. That's Natsu enhancing his flames, from FD to FDK. If Gray could do the same with ice (like maybe he did by using Invel's demonic ice), than perhaps a comparison can be made. Right now the damage output and the magic itself are different, imo.
Erza's GMG spells are the strongest she got.. That's why we have to use those feats.
As for Gray, unlike Erza, he actually trained seriously during the timeskip, so naturally, he would have stronger level and more advanced spells than Erza.
It's fair, I don't know what you gain from saying that Erza only used GMG spells.
Erza only used GMG spells because that is the strongest she got.
Let me remind you that Erza was fighting for her life... she put everything she had into her battle against Ajeel.
Sorry to break it to ya, but that's as good as Erza is ever going to get at the moment.
One last thing, PoF and PiS is restricted in this specific thread. OP stated it, so follow it.
So if you say anything about Erza having even a little PoF, I can technically ignore that part of your post because PoF and PiS is clearly banned.
Please read the OP of this thread before posting and arguing.
Gray won't be using that long sword against Erza.
He will be using Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist and will maul Erza's face with it.
Don't start trying to downplay Gray's spells here, I know you really want Erza to win.
Gray's Ice Devil Zeroth Destruction Fist is a way better feat than anything Erza has shown in this arc.
Wow. Calm down
I was just curious because you seems to hate nakama powerup so much. You can ignore it.
I don't know whether gray trained harder than erza, espesially since he spent half year training with juvia and half year undercover.
Beside I don't think it would matter at all. I expect him to be equal to natsu in this arc, even though natsu is one shotting everyone around
I don't agree erza was fighting for her life, sure she wanst pissed off like gray was but it seriously hard to believe that requip into morning star armor takes less out of her then simply requiping a sword to block the axe. But I won't defend my postion here.
Erza could have this arc attack, because
1) everyine seems to have a new attack. But they appear only in that character fight of the arc (red lightening, zeroth punches). When its not their main fight they use old attacks (nakagami star light, gray long sword)
2) ajeel sand body would make him immune to things like benzikuru plus
But you are right, we haven't seen um yet. One should wait.
I don't know why you think zeroth punches are such a huge deal. How is it exacty stronger than nakagami.
The way I see it
Mid tier attacks
Erza water sword > gray long sword
High tier attacks
4 x zeroth punches > 1 x nakagami star light
Erza was a lot faster than gray before, so if pof is not an issue than erza would probably land nakagami on gray before gray can land zeroth punches espicially since he have to mould it first.
Also keeping in mind that erza is basically a cqc fighter while gray is not.
Gray fighting better than erza can easily be attributed to juvia death and him using pof to over power invel. While ajeel basically hid himself for some sneak attacks.
So basically
Pof gray loses to ajeel (his technique of hiding 500 meters above him and throwing deggars at gray. Because gray has nothing to over power the guy he can't see and is far away from him)
Pof gray beats erza (because he can over power and maybe even out speed her)
Gray loses to erza (because he might not be able to over power erza and he is also not out speeding her)
I see this match-up being back & forth from members perceptive due to the fact that as Gray just got a power-up, so is Erza due for one.
This match-up is also hard to determine as Gray's win against Invel doesn't translate to a victory against fundamentally definitely characters with distinct styles.
Well we do know that Gray was in rage mode against Invel. Dude basically saw Juvia die (or thought he did). Honestly, if Ajeel had done what Invel did to someone like Jellal for example, pretty sure Erza would have handed him his ass. Still, this is a pretty tough fight for me and tbh, I'm leaning towards Erza high diff. Both have pretty powerful moves which could KO the other imo. Both Nakagami Starlight and Destruction Fist should be enough to knock out the other. I'll give this to Erza mainly because she should be more durable than him and of the two of them, I'd say she's more likely to successfully pull of her finisher first. Gray's performance against Invel was very impressive but it's not as clear cut as saying him having a better performance against another spriggan automatically makes him stronger. Firstly, there was never any indication that Invel excels in CQC. Going by how easily he incapacitated Natsu and Co, odds are he never needs to even engage in CQC. We saw him take care of Mavis rather easily by freezing her and then later freezing her heart to prevent her from being able to think. Even his means of attacking Gray for majority of the fight was him using spells that didn't require CQC. Apart from his armor (which was also basically to freeze everything). Also, Gray had Ice advantage which helped him once he was able to successfully take advantage of Invel's ice and use it. Erza on the other hand had to get past Ajeel's Sand body which was considerably difficult.
Well Invel technically near-killed Gray with Ice Lock.
But in a straight up battle, it depends. In 498 Invel seemed too much for Gray. But after Juvia's "death", his punches in base form pushed Invel to his strongest combat form (the raiment). That's a pretty big swing.
If Gray can replicate his 500 performance at will, then he's probably mid-high diffing Erza. Mid if he uses his markings, high diff in base.
I think someone like Erza would have a chance against Gray. Even if Gray is overpowering her, Erza still has the endurance and defence to keep her in the game when other people would fall. She also possesses some potent weapons that will do damage to Gray - even if he is as tanky as Ajeel he would get hurt.
I'm willing to give it to Gray high diff, but wouldn't begrudge anyone for picking Erza high diff. I could even settle for draw. Gray doing it lower than high diff would need emotional power (PoF or darkness).
Erza vs gray in his rage mode would be one sided..he just stomps a spriggan like invel..and invel>>>erza..so i don't see how erza can give him more than mid diff
I would say High Difficulty is fair. This fight is definitely Gray's victory. But he is not stomping. To say Gray would win with more than High Difficulty is completely underrating him. At the same time though, saying he defeats Erza with less than High Difficulty is underrating her. Until Erza gets new feats, she won't win this fight.
Wow. Calm down
I was just curious because you seems to hate nakama powerup so much. You can ignore it.
I don't know whether gray trained harder than erza, espesially since he spent half year training with juvia and half year undercover.
Beside I don't think it would matter at all. I expect him to be equal to natsu in this arc, even though natsu is one shotting everyone around
I don't agree erza was fighting for her life, sure she wanst pissed off like gray was but it seriously hard to believe that requip into morning star armor takes less out of her then simply requiping a sword to block the axe. But I won't defend my postion here.
Erza could have this arc attack, because
1) everyine seems to have a new attack. But they appear only in that character fight of the arc (red lightening, zeroth punches). When its not their main fight they use old attacks (nakagami star light, gray long sword)
2) ajeel sand body would make him immune to things like benzikuru plus
But you are right, we haven't seen um yet. One should wait.
I don't know why you think zeroth punches are such a huge deal. How is it exacty stronger than nakagami.
The way I see it
Mid tier attacks
Erza water sword > gray long sword
High tier attacks
4 x zeroth punches > 1 x nakagami star light
Erza was a lot faster than gray before, so if pof is not an issue than erza would probably land nakagami on gray before gray can land zeroth punches espicially since he have to mould it first.
Also keeping in mind that erza is basically a cqc fighter while gray is not.
Gray fighting better than erza can easily be attributed to juvia death and him using pof to over power invel. While ajeel basically hid himself for some sneak attacks.
So basically
Pof gray loses to ajeel (his technique of hiding 500 meters above him and throwing deggars at gray. Because gray has nothing to over power the guy he can't see and is far away from him)
Pof gray beats erza (because he can over power and maybe even out speed her)
Gray loses to erza (because he might not be able to over power erza and he is also not out speeding her)
Well Invel technically near-killed Gray with Ice Lock.
But in a straight up battle, it depends. In 498 Invel seemed too much for Gray. But after Juvia's "death", his punches in base form pushed Invel to his strongest combat form (the raiment). That's a pretty big swing.
If Gray can replicate his 500 performance at will, then he's probably mid-high diffing Erza. Mid if he uses his markings, high diff in base.
1.) Gray was distracted because Brandish grabbed Natsu, Lucy, and Happy. That's why Gray had his back turned because he was concerned for his friends.
2.) Ice Lock was casted because Juvia was there. If anything, Juvia was a hindrance to Gray's performance. That's why I don't like it when people mention Ice Lock as Gray's fault.
We have no feats of Invel being able to cast Ice Lock on only one person.
Not to mention, there is plausible evidence that Gray could have evaded or had some way to avoid it if Brandish had not interrupted the fight.
I think someone like Erza would have a chance against Gray. Even if Gray is overpowering her, Erza still has the endurance and defence to keep her in the game when other people would fall. She also possesses some potent weapons that will do damage to Gray - even if he is as tanky as Ajeel he would get hurt.
I'm willing to give it to Gray high diff, but wouldn't begrudge anyone for picking Erza high diff. I could even settle for draw. Gray doing it lower than high diff would need emotional power (PoF or darkness).
1.) Gray was distracted because Brandish grabbed Natsu, Lucy, and Happy. That's why Gray had his back turned because he was concerned for his friends.
2.) Ice Lock was casted because Juvia was there. If anything, Juvia was a hindrance to Gray's performance. That's why I don't like it when people mention Ice Lock as Gray's fault.
We have no feats of Invel being able to cast Ice Lock on only one person.
Not to mention, there is plausible evidence that Gray could have evaded or had some way to avoid it if Brandish had not interrupted the fight.
But I definitely don't call Gray in 498 as casual. The moment he used the markings, that isn't casual. And I don't call it even. Invel had Gray's measure at that point.
And then there was Juvia's death... and after that his base punches were smashing Invel. The way I see it, Gray either used emotional power... or he was holding back almost everything he had in 498. If it's the latter, then what explanation can there be for holding back against a powerful opponent who froze his friends? Why would Gray become more serious, and then revert to base? Would you blame Juvia's "death" on Gray's misjudgment?
Gray does have things to come, but I think for this thread I don't count them. In a Natsu thread I won't count Dragon Force for example.
Emotions give power. PoF, and apparently darkness. Not sure what Gray used but there was a boost. He can probably replicate some of the feats without emotional boosts though.
