Group Group A

[Axiomus]

20% was just an example, Lucy could dedicate %30, %40, %60 or %80 of her power to it, which means she could copy someone significantly stronger than herself, if only for a few moments.

No one is saying she creates her spirits, however she does support their magic power, hence why different spirits consume different amounts

Spoiler

Lucy supports their usage of magic power. Galaxia Blade being used after Lucy tired herself out is logically the CSK pulling a Loke.
No, we do know Lucy has had a massive increase in magic power, because unlike against Jackal she is doing it purely with her own magic. She is using Celestial power to achieve the form, but its not as though her spirits are actually granting her their MP, as shown when she uses Aquarius' Dress without her being present or even owning her Key, the magic power is entirely Lucy's.

DF is Natsu powering up, not going all out. Going all out would just be Natsu expending all his MP, going DF actually boosts his strength beyond what that MP is normally capable of accomplishing.
The strength Natsu gets is from transforming into a dragon, so what? Lucy is substituting a regular spirit for the 50 foot tall king of their race.
If Dragon Force is PoF, then Celestial Spirirt Magic if PoF X100. since the power of love canonically increases the power of her spirits. In fact the power of love is even a requirement for summoning the CSK.
Anyway, my point is that Dragon Force scales with the user's strength, the stronger the Dragon Slayer, the greater the boost DF gives them. CSK should not be any different.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2017 ---

No one knows who summoned CSK before or how hard they fought each other. For all you know Mard Geer ran with his tail between his legs, maybe he went Etherious that time, or maybe they fought the same way as when Lucy summoned him. Doesnt matter, because we also dont know how powerful the Celestial Spirit mage who summoned him earlier was. Them being stronger than Lucy is highly unlikely because a wizard actually capable of summoning the CSK is already extremely rare. In fact the CSK may not have even been summoned by a wizard last time, he may have come on his own power for his own reasons. And again, doesnt matter because we know for a fact that spirits get stronger as their summoner does.

- Lucy probably uses the majority of her power to sustain the gates, and not empowering her spirits. I doubt she ever empowers Gemini to be significantly stronger than herself, because again... the majority of her power is probably used to keep the gates open themselves.
- What is taxing Lucy is keeping Virgo and Loke's gates open. Virgo even says this.
- It literally says that Lucy is borrowing her spirits powers when she uses star dress.
- DF is Natsu going all out. Natsu doesn't gain any external power-up from using dragon force. He simply uses the magical power he does have in the most powerful way he can, which is transforming parts of his body into that of a dragon. Lucy does not create her spirits, and her spirits do not need to use her MP to use their attacks. Especially in the case of the Spirit King's Galaxia Blade, which was made after Lucy exhausted herself with an all out attack.
- Show me proof that CS Magic increases magic by multiplying the power of Lucy's spirits by the rate in which Lucy gets stronger. What you are describing with Lucy's spirits isn't even POF. It's just arbitrary multiplication. It's a math trick.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2017 ---

The Spirit King hasn't noted or even hinted that's what he had to do though, he just said that Lucy had reached her limit and as you are aware, Celestial Spirits are being powered by their summoners once summoned. Also your logic shows how that makes Loke stronger than the CSK since he can keep his gate open and fight at the same time without being tired out that quick. That's not the case here, Mard Geer noted that's what the CSK's movements suddenly came to be just when the CSK was about to attack him. Makes more sense to say it's because he was losing the power up Lucy was giving him since it happened in that moment.

As I was saying before, back in the Fighting Festival Arc, none of her spirits had ever opened their own gates before except Loke as stated until after her fight with Angel. Lucy just had gotten them stronger going by the fact they do as she does which allowed them to be strong enough to now use their own power to open their gates. What I'm talking about happened in a canon Arc which Mashima probably had gotten them to include since he even said so himself that there's some things he just didn't had time to put in the manga and he does help out sometimes. The Eclipse Arc is a whole different story that if you ask me, the spirits look even stronger before their metamorphosis from the Eclipse Gate. Like did you see how badass they made Virgo?

My logic doesn't mean that Loke is stronger than the CSK. It takes much more magical power to keep the Spirit King's gate open than it does for Loke to keep his gate open. At least 3x as much magical power. The CSK can still fight even when keeping the gate open. He just can't fight someone on Mard Geer's level, because Mard Geer is hard enough to tag in the first place. Having to use more MP slows him down more than he can fight effectively. Loke is also more powerful when he can rely on Lucy keeping the gates open than he is fighting under his own power. If he had to fight an opponent that was his exact equal with Lucy supporting him, then using his power to keep his gate open would also be a handicap.

What you're talking about happened in a filler, even if it happened during a canon arc, it never showed up in the manga at all. It's possible that Hiro specifically asked for that scene, but it's equally likely that this was just a filler scene that the anime team snuck in there to fill runtime. Either way, you can read the manga from front to back and never come across this scene. For example, I haven't even watched the scene, so I am taking your word for this. What we do see from the manga is that a spirit can use their own magical power to enter the human world when Lucy is has zero magical power, meaning the spirits have a power source of their own. Loke was trying to write off that his ability to enter the spirit world boiled down to love. Which tells us that he was was some-what joking. Even if it was love that allows for Lucy's spirits to pass, Lucy's other spirits also loves Lucy, and they've been with her a lot longer than Loke has.

 

[Seven777]

- Lucy probably uses the majority of her power to sustain the gates, and not empowering her spirits. I doubt she ever empowers Gemini to be significantly stronger than herself, because again... the majority of her power is probably used to keep the gates open themselves.
- What do you mean by "Pulling a Loke"? It's the CSK using his own power.
- What is taxing Lucy is keeping Virgo and Loke's gates open. Virgo even says this.
- It literally says that Lucy is borrowing her spirits powers when she uses star dress.
- DF is Natsu going all out. Natsu doesn't need to eat anything to go DF.
- Show me proof that CS Magic increases magic by multiplying the power of Lucy's spirits by the rate in which Lucy gets stronger.

- Opening a gate drains her, but so too does the MP consumption of the spirit.
- By saying "pulling a Loke" i meant it was CSK using his own power. I say "pulling a Loke" cause he does it pretty frequently(compared to other spirits)
- Whats taxing Lucy even further is the MP Loke and Virgo consume and use, Loke says this right after Virgo.
- Not eating anything =/= not powering up. DF increases Natsu's strength and that increase scales with Natsu's power.
- Yes, borrowing her spirits powers. As in borrowing their abilities. Not borrowing their power, as in borrowing their MP.
- No, because their is no such proof, unless you count Gemini. Just like there is no proof that Lucy only throws what MP she can spare their way. All we know is that spirits become stronger as their summoner does. Is Lucy chucking them some MP to temporarily boost them really the same as the spirit becoming stronger?
- No more of a math trick than Dragon Force.

 

[Axiomus]

- Opening a gate drains her, but so too does the MP consumption of the spirit.
- By saying "pulling a Loke" i meant it was CSK using his own power. I say "pulling a Loke" cause he does it pretty frequently(compared to other spirits)
- Whats taxing Lucy even further is the MP Loke and Virgo consume and use, Loke says this right after Virgo.
- Not eating anything =/= not powering up. DF increases Natsu's strength and that increase scales with Natsu's power.
- Yes, borrowing her spirits powers. As in borrowing their abilities. Not borrowing their power, as in borrowing their MP.
- No, because their is no such proof, unless you count Gemini. Just like there is no proof that Lucy only throws what MP she can spare their way. All we know is that spirits become stronger as their summoner does. Is Lucy chucking them some MP to temporarily boost them really the same as the spirit becoming stronger?
- No more of a math trick than Dragon Force.

Natsu doesn't gain any extra magical power from using DF. He simply uses the magical power he does have in the most effective way that he can. You don't actually get more magical power using dragon force. You're actually using up magical power. You use that magical power to transform parts of your body into that of a dragon, which results in more physical strength. The magic power isn't coming out of nowhere, and it's not a math trick either.

Star dress borrows her spirit's magical powers. Lucy says that she is borrowing some of her spirits powers, and Loke says that it's got some of his light magic. It should be kind of obvious that a "power" that is also a "magic" refers to some sort of "magic power". The fact that Aquarius' star dress also gives Lucy a transfer of Aquarius' powers should have been enough foreshadowing that the rest of Lucy's star dress does the same.

Spoiler

I don't see why you don't see it as Lucy's spirits becoming stronger. If Lucy's magical power is stronger, she can power up her spirits more. This makes her spirits stronger. Lucy's magical power is definitely linked to the spirit's magical power. That much is certain. However, magical power shouldn't come from nowhere, and Lucy doesn't physically create the spirits. We also know that the spirits have their own base level of magical power that exists without any summoners. They can use this power to open gates and use their own attacks. Addition simply makes more sense because that extra-MP isn't coming out of nowhere.

Even if I agree that on some fundamental level, that Lucy's spirits "evolve" as Lucy get's stronger, there's still no evidence that they evolve 20% of their own magical power when Lucy evolves 20% of their hers'. What's to say they don't evolve on a 1:1 basis, like when Lucy gains 1000 units of MP so does the spirit? Even if proof is lacking for both interpretations, I'm not the one claiming that Lucy is the strongest in the tournament and that CSK would be on Acnologia's level. I am just judging Lucy by what the most recent canon portrayal of her power is.

Lastly, and this is probably the most important thing. The Celestial Spirit King is not Lucy's spirit. He doesn't have a contract with Lucy, and Lucy is technically not the only mage that can summon him. Layla and Anna should both have the ability to summon him, whilst they had keys or when they were alive. Anna was said that she had nothing that could defeat Acnologia, and Anna was the strongest CS mage in history. This alone should prove that the Spirit King was never at Acnologia's level in the past. What we are talking about is a hypothetical version of the CSK based off pure speculation, which has more to do with random multiplication rather than anything concrete we see in the manga. Even if I agree with everything else you're saying, this still doesn't change the fact that the CSK was never portrayed as an equal for Acnologia.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Top 4 Participants in Group A

1) Natsu Dragneel

To be honest, Natsu could probably clear this round while in base form. FDKM isn't really needed and Dragon Force is overkill. Currently, he is the strongest fighter on Ishgar's side. The only person that can give him trouble is Irene.

2) God Serena

God Serena deserves to move on because he took down the 3 Gods of Ishgar + Jura. While that may not seem impressive in the grand scheme of things, it was a better feat than most of the other Spriggans, who were utterly defeated. Versatility would come in handy here because many characters like Natsu and Wendy are resistant to elements like fire, wind, etc.

3) Sting Eucliffe

I had tough time deciding whether Sting would advance or not. The reason being... I'm not counting Rogue's power because this is Sting by himself (not Sting + Rogue). In the end, I decided that with White Shadow Dragon Mode, he should be able to survive. Not only is his attack power and durability pretty decent, but he has the ability to move within the shadows which may be a good evasive technique in this battle royale.

4) Irene Belserion

Last but not least... Surprisingly, this one was a little hard to choose. A good point that @DiMaria Yesta and @Nemispelled brought up was the fact that Irene is at a severe disadvantage in this group. 5 out of the 7 opponents are dragon slayers. However, after thinking about it a little more, it is reasonable to say Irene would make it into the top 4. In order for a dragon slayer to revert her, they would need an attack power on the level of Erza. That decreases the number from 5/7 to 3/7. And to defeat her, you would need even more power. In my eyes, the only dragon slayers that can achieve this are Natsu and God Serena. Not Sting, because I have him around Erza's level (using his own power). That means at most, he could only revert her. Not defeat her. That decreases the number to 2/7. Overall, I think Irene still has a shot at winning.


5) Mirajane Strauss

Spoiler

So close... It was a toss-up between Sting, Mirajane, and Irene. I have Sting and Mirajane around the same level. But since WSDM doesn't cost nearly as much MP as Alegria, Sting should have the edge. As for Irene, although she is at a huge disadvantage, it turns out that it isn't as big as it seems.

6) Lucy Heartfilia

Spoiler

Most of CSK's feats are outdated. It is impossible to tell how much stronger he became (if he even did). Therefore, I'm not going to speculate. At best, he is low-tier Spriggan level. And I don't think Lucy will ever sacrifice another key again in the current story, so I doubt we'll ever find out.

7) Cobra

Spoiler

Unfortunately, Cobra never had a chance to showcase his true powers. In the Tartaros Arc, he was defeated by Jellal's strongest attack "Sema". Then in the Alvarez Arc, he was defeated by August. The only reason Lucy is above him is because of CSK. Unfortunately, Wendy doesn't have the same advantage. Given his impressive feats in the past (and his good sense of hearing), I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over Wendy. Poison would also come in handy.

8) Wendy Marvell

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Wendy never really impressed me. In her base form, she couldn't even handle Bluenote. To make matters worse, she was unable to damage Dimaria while using Dragon Force (almost died too). Although she's improved a lot, she just can't compete with the others in this tournament who are arguably the top 32 characters in the entire series (not counting overpowered villains).

 

[Seven777]

The MP consumption of the spirit is likely very minor, as the majority of her power goes into maintaining the gates. Again, she's only powering the spirit with what power she can spare. She isn't physically supplying 100% of their power. So we agree the CSK has his own power that he can use. He can use this power to fuel his attacks and open his gates, no? Again, using Galaxia Blade after Lucy completely exhausted her magical supply should be proof that the spirits can use their own power.

Natsu doesn't gain any extra magical power from using DF. He simply uses the magical power he does have in the most effective way that he can. How is dragon force a math trick? Again, you don't actually get more magical power using dragon force. You're actually using up magical power. You're trading that magical power for greater physical strength by turning parts of your body into that of a dragon. Possibly greater magical capacity, if dragon cells can hold more magic.

No. Star dress borrows her spirit's magical powers. Lucy says that she is borrowing some of her spirits powers, and Loke says that it's got some of his light magic. It should be kind of obvious that a "power" that is also a "magic" refers to some sort of "magic power". The term "ability" has never been shown up even once in the series to be honest. The fact that Aquarius' star dress also gives Lucy a transfer of Aquarius' powers should have been enough foreshadowing that the rest of Lucy's star dress does the same.

Spoiler

I don't see why you don't see it as Lucy's spirits becoming stronger. If Lucy's magical power is stronger, she can power up her spirits more. This makes her spirits stronger. Lucy's magical power is definitely linked to the spirit's magical power. That much is certain. However, magical power shouldn't come from nowhere, and Lucy doesn't physically create the spirits. We also know that the spirits have their own base level of magical power that exists without any summoners. Addition simply makes more sense because it means a spirit can't ever be weaker than what their own MP allows (10 year old Lucy can still summon her spirits), and that extra-MP isn't coming out of nowhere. A spirit can never be weaker than them summoning themselves with their own MP.

Lastly, and this is probably the most important thing. The Celestial Spirit King is not Lucy's spirit. He doesn't have a contract with Lucy, and Lucy is technically not the only mage that can summon him. Layla and Anna should both have the ability to summon him, whilst they had keys or when they were alive. Anna said that she had nothing that could defeat Acnologia, and Anna was the strongest CS mage in history. This alone should prove that the Spirit King was never at Acnologia's level in the past. What we are talking about is hypothetical version of the CSK based off pure speculation, which has more to do with random multiplication rather than anything concrete we see in the manga.

Unlikely if Loke bothered to mention it, besides, i think i got too caught up in the MP argument. I never thought Lucy supplied the entirety of their MP anyway. Sure, we agree CSK had his own MP to use. I never denied that spirits have their own MP, my argument is just that their strength scales to Lucy's. Its like in a game, when you level up, so does your summons. Hence why Angel could copy Gray while OS Lucy couldnt, or why Alvarez Lucy could use Scorpio to blast Brandish away, while Tenrou Scorpio couldnt even get Kain to flinch, or why Loke went from needing help to beat Bixlow to doing better against Torafuzar than the Thunder Tribe together did against Tempester. I highly doubt this colossal increase in strength was just the result of Lucy/Angel throwing spare MP their way, especially since Lucy was simultaneously maintaining Virgo/Star Dress when accomplishing those feats.

Alright, then by your "Dragon Force logic" the CSK is just using Lucy's MP more effectively than a normal spirit. So instead of using MP to dragonize, that MP is being trading for the superior strength of the CSK(hence why CSK>>>3 Spirits).

No, not at all. When you are referring to strength received from others you say "i received their power" not "i received their powers". When someone says "i received their powers" The obvious interpretation would be that they had received someones abilities. Besides, you are nitpicking at this point. Its perfectly clear that Lucy has improved by leaps and bounds, her portrayal and feats clearly imply this, or do you disagree? And even if you were right about that whole "received powers" thing, doesnt matter because that means all Lucy needs to do is enter a Star Dress before summoning CSK.

Yes, a spirits MP is linked to Lucy, in fact i'd say that link is probably the sole decider on how powerful her spirits are. I highly doubt Lucy actually consciously provides any MP to her spirits at all, she sustains their Gate and MP consumption, but It has definitely never been implied or suggested that she actually consciously gives her spirit power. In fact it makes no sense for her to do that because that would mean her Spirits MP would fluctuate when summoning two or more, which has never been the case.

As long as the CSK is summoned by Lucy, their is a contract between them

Spoiler

As for him beating Acno, i dont have it as a possibility. Holding him off though? Doable, even Jellal might be able to accomplish that and imo the CSK will be in an entirely different league from him.

 

[Axiomus]

Natsu is physically transforming himself when he uses dragon force. The CSK isn't using Lucy's magic to transform himself, and his Galaxia Blade doesn't even require Lucy's magic. Is it possible that the Spirit King converts Lucy's MP into strength for his attacks? Inevitably yes, if Lucy and CSk are sharing magical power between the two, some of Lucy's magic will power the CSK. However, the CSK has his own magical supply and the power Lucy provides for him probably isn't the majority of his overall power.

I don't think Lucy consciously gives her spirits magic power, or even that she gives her spirits a large amount of magical power. Again, Lucy's main job is to keep the gates open. The job of the spirit is to fight for Lucy. Sure the spirit can draw on Lucy's MP, but I doubt they only use Lucy's MP. The power it takes to summon and sustain the spirit is probably less than the power the spirit brings to table. Otherwise, what would even be the point? It's almost always better to just blast them with Urano Metria. Take a step back and ask yourself... Why Lucy would even need to summon the spirit king if the order to defeat Jackal if Lucy only needs to channel her magical power into casting Urano Metria? She could have simply closed Aquarius' gate, and then blasted Urano Metria with the MP she would have used to summon the CSK. If Lucy was truly providing the vast majority of the CSK's magical power, then she would have saved a tonne of magical power.

This whole "powers" thing doesn't even exist in the original Japanese. The Japanese world for power is 力(chikara). There's no plurality, and it means exactly that. Power. The exact term Lucy used was 星霊の力 (serei no chikara). I don't have access to the raws anymore, but you can hear this again when the anime comes out in Japanese. It translate literally power of the celestial spirit. The next page has Loke saying it's his light magic. It's power and it's magic. I don't see why you wouldn't say it's magical power, especially since we already know that Aquarius star dress grants Lucy Aquarius' magical power. Entering a star dress would mean that Lucy can sustain the CSK's gate open for longer because she'll have more mp to work with. It would be like when she was fighting Jackal, before and after the CSK granted her Aquarius' star dress. Entering a star dress is not going to boost CSK to Acnologia tier though. Even if I accept Lucy has underwent a massive growth in power, how strong is Lucy compared to her pre-TS self? Is that difference larger than the difference between Acnologia and Mard Geer in the first place? Lucy in proportion to Mard Geer isn't even the same as Acnologia's power difference to everyone else. Acnologia > Humanity + All the Etherious. Mard Geer >= Gray/Natsu.

Spoiler: There's nothing about a contract in the official translation.

Perhaps this is one of the odd time the official translation is wrong. I don't want to dwell on this. It doesn't change the fact that Anna was the most powerful Celestial Spirit Mage, and that CSK has never been portrayed to be on Acnologia's level before. We also know that CSK and Mard Geer have met before, so we know CSK was summoned before. I'm pretty sure he wasn't Acno-tier back then either. There is a huge difference between holding off Acnologia for a few moments, and actually being on his level. Makarov was able to hold Acnologia back for a couple of minutes before getting pinned. Jellal is probably going to lead Acnologia around a chase, but unless he does anything significant in terms of wounding or exhausting Acnologia he wouldn't be on Acnologia's level either. Igneel is the only one that is close enough to Acnologia for me to say that they're on the same level, and even then Igneel is weaker. Unless the Celestial Spirit King manages to slice off Acnologia's arm or at the very least knock him down like Igneel did, he would not be at Acnologia's level. CSK in all honesty, might not even be on human Acnologia's level.

 

[kkck]

I went with natsu, lucy, irene an god serena.

Natsu because he has access to dragon force nowadays and even in base form he has been able to more or less hold his ground against at least the lesser springan.

Then god serena and irene. Both of them are monsters overall. Irene is someone who could even push back acknologia a bit. At least in terms of sheer raw power I would argue she well surpassed pre-fairy heart zeref though of course she can't kill him. No human can defeat her, only a dragon slayer has a chance.

Then I was kinda torn between lucy and mira. I don't have a particularly high opinion of sting to be honest. MIra has more firepower than lucy as a whole however her stronger forms as usual take up too much stamina. Lucy in turn has plenty of keys each with powerful magics, uranometria, and her powers are overall more stable. I would think that nowadays she could take satan soul mira at least. Allegria would be beyond her but she doesn't have to win, she has to survive the few moments the form currently lasts. And perhaps more importantly,in a life or death scenario lucy can summon the stellar spirit king. Back in the day it went toe to toe with mard geer and lucy has powered up since that. It's by no means a stretch that the stellar spirit king could fight and even best a springan. Not any springan but there are a few I could see her defeat with it (not at the same time of course).

 

[Cosmicstar]

AoE is the only thing that puts CSK above Mard. The CSK has AoE feats comparable to the war god Ikusatsunagi, and Ikusatsunagi is not considered Spriggan tier. This is not really similar to Irene. The reason Irene is above Erza and Wendy is not because Irene has bigger attacks. In fact, her largest attack isn't even stronger than Erza's slash. Irene is stronger than Erza and Wendy because she can break all of their bones with a claw swipe, whom neither really can dodge. And because short of her committing suicide, Erza and Wendy would have actually lost the fight.

And the CSK destroyed Plutogrimm and sliced the earth in two. While Yes Irene was able to Use enchantment to increase her strength to break every bone in Erza's body it didn't stop Erza from easily stopping Irene's strongest battle attack and get sliced. Azir left Erza in a worse condition than Irene. Wendy performed better against Irene than Dimaria. Yet I don't see people claiming Irene is only on Erza's level.

Erza can dodge the claw swipe just as well as she was dodging most of Irene's nukes. Erza didn't even try to dodge and it didn't matter in the end anyway.

Also who said the IKusatsungi isn't on Spriggan level? Last time I checked Natsu used more power to knock him out than he did Jacob and Nienheart.

Spoiler

Spoiler

vs

Jacob:

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Why are people using double standards? It is okay for Natsu to one shot Jacob and Nienheart who are Spriggan tier using Blaze/Fire Demolition fist but when it is someone else they are weaker. The War God is without a doubt Spriggan tier.

As far as the CSK is concerned he outclassed Marde Geer in Attack power and really that is all that matters because none of Marde Geer attacks left a scratch on the CSK. The difference is that the CSK actually tanked Marde Geer infinite thorns instead of dodging the attack like Marde. It left him unscathed.

Spoiler

Spoiler

So how is it okay for us to say Irene is stronger than Erza and Wendy when they got the best of her multiple times during the battle. Even tanked her attacks. Yet Marde Geer never tanked CSK attacks and none of his attacks even fazed the CSK. But yet for some reason he is only Marde Geer level. Which makes no sense considering he bested Marde Geer multiple times in the battle.

Before you say Irene only lost because she killed herself the same logic could be applied to CSK in which the only reason he left was because Lucy was running out of magical power. The difference between the two though is Irene was Bloody and Beaten while the CSK was unscathed.

Why the double standard?

I feel like since it is a Lucy feat people want to belittle it and try to make it seem way less than what it was. CSK is beyond Marde Geer level. Marde Geer has never been able to replicate the power of the CSK, EVER. Unless someone has a feat of Marde Geer showing a powerful destructive spell. Mori mento might come close if it actually worked.

 

[Seven777]

Natsu is physically transforming himself when he uses dragon force. The CSK isn't using Lucy's magic to transform himself, and his Galaxia Blade doesn't even require Lucy's magic. Is it possible that the Spirit King converts Lucy's MP into strength for his attacks? Inevitably yes, if Lucy and CSk are sharing magical power between the two. However, the CSK has his own magical supply and the power Lucy provides for him probably isn't the majority of the spirit king's.

I don't think Lucy consciously gives her spirits magic power, or even that she gives her spirits a large amount of magical power. Again, Lucy's main job is to keep the gates open. The job of the spirit is to fight for Lucy. Sure the spirit can draw on Lucy's MP, but I doubt they only use Lucy's MP. The power it takes to summon and sustain the spirit is probably less than the power the spirit brings to table, otherwise it's not worth using. Take a step back and ask yourself why Lucy would even need to summon the spirit king if the order to defeat Jackal, Lucy only needs to channel her magical power into casting Urano Metria? She could have simply closed Aquarius' gate, and then blasted Urano Metria.

I'm not the one nitpicking this point. The Japanese. The Japanese world for power is 力(chikara). There's no plurality, and it means exactly that. Power. The exact term Lucy used was 星霊の力 (serei no chikara). I don't have access to the raws anymore, but you can hear this again when the anime comes out in Japanese. It translate literally power of the celestial spirit. The next page has Loke saying it's his light magic. It's power and it's magic. I don't see why you wouldn't say it's magical power, especially since we already know that Aquarius star dress grants Lucy Aquarius' magical power.

There's nothing about a contract in the official translation. Perhaps this is one of the odd time the official translation is wrong. I don't want to dwell on this.

Spoiler

There is a huge difference between holding off Acnologia for a few moments, and actually being on his level. Makarov was able to hold Acnologia back for a couple of minutes before getting pinned. Jellal is probably going to lead Acnologia around a chase, but unless he does anything significant in terms of wounding or exhausting Acnologia he wouldn't be on Acnologia's level either. Igneel is the only one that is close enough to Acnologia for me to say that they're on the same level, and even then Igneel is weaker. Unless the Celestial Spirit King manages to slice off Acnologia's arm or at the very least knock him down like Igneel did, he would not be at Acnologia's level. CSK in all honesty, might not even be on human Acnologia's level.

Irrelevant, Natsu is using his MP to increase his strength, which means that like you said, MP can be used more effectively. The ratio of MP to strength isnt 1:1, otherwise there'd be no point in using Dragon Force.

If Lucy doesnt consciously give her spirits power, then how does it work? You said what strengthens the spirit is actually just whatever power Lucy can spare, but how is it that Lucy is giving that spirit her leftover power while also summoning a second spirit? By your logic every time Lucy summons another spirit, the first spirit would have to be weakened, which has never been the case. It simply doesnt make sense.
Dont really understand what you meant about Urano Metria and Jackal. She couldnt properly use Urano Metria before Aquarious Dress could she? And Jackal wasnt her only enemy, she needed to save FT.

I'll take your word for the Japanese stuff. But as for the nitpicking, you're missing my point. Regardless of how Lucy obtained her boost in strength, whats clear is that she obtained it, and that she is on an entirely different level thanks to that. You trying to pick apart the argument by saying "Lucy prob hasnt even gotten that much stronger, she just learned a new technique" as though her being able to use Star Dress without the CSK isnt an incredible feat in itself, seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since it doesnt even affect my argument since she can always go into Star Dress before summoning CSK. Should i go around saying "Gray hasnt made any improvement other than DeS mode, Natsu hasnt made any improvement beyond FDK moves and everyone's MP is just the same as it was and no one has made any improvements beyond the one or two new techniques they've showcased". Thats what you're doing by downplaying the significance of Lucy learning Star Dress, sorry if that sounds rude, but do you get where im coming from?

I never said CSK had to be on Acno's level or close to it, i just said he'd be top top tier. As in Zeref tier, or August tier, enough to hold off Acno.

 

[Star Frost]

My logic doesn't mean that Loke is stronger than the CSK. It takes much more magical power to keep the Spirit King's gate open than it does for Loke to keep his gate open. At least 3x as much magical power. The CSK can probably still fight even when keeping the gate open. He just can't fight someone on Mard Geer's level, because Mard Geer is very near his level in the first place. Having to use more MP slows him down more than he can fight effectively. Loke is also more powerful when he can rely on Lucy keeping the gates open than he is fighting under his own power.

What you're talking about happened in a filler, even if it happened during a canon arc, it never showed up in the manga at all. It's possible that Hiro specifically asked for that scene, but it's equally likely that this was just a filler scene that the anime team snuck in there to fill runtime. Either way, you can read the manga from front to back and never come across this scene. For example, I haven't even watched the scene, so I am taking your word for this. What we do see from the manga is that a spirit can use their own magical power to enter the human world when Lucy is has zero magical power, meaning the spirits have a power source of their own. Loke was trying to write off that his ability to enter the spirit world boiled down to love. Which tells us that (1) he was joke and (2) even if it was love that allows for Lucy's spirits to pass, Lucy's other spirits also loves Lucy... and they've been with her a lot longer than Loke has.

You misunderstand, you said the CSK was draining and becoming tired by the logic that he was using his own power to keep his gate open when he done became sluggish. Loke on the other hand like back in Tenrou Island Arc for example had used his own power to not only open his gate open for who knows how long but also used his power to fight Mest and Wendy, non-stopping soldiers, and Caprico yet he never shown to be tired at the same time. That's what I mean by going by your logic that you're not realizing how your making Loke seem more stronger than the CSK when we know that's not true.

No I believe he was serious when he said that but only use that as an attempt to make it a joke. Otherwise if Lucy's spirits could do it the whole time, why haven't they before? I'm saying that due to Lucy becoming stronger, she made them so as well. Thing is going by Loke's words, seems like they only use her power for their strengths is whenever she summons them or if they use her power to open her gate but on their own it's not necessary but it does make them more weaker. Also love do make them stronger but Loke been learned to open his gate long before while he was Karen's Spirit which puzzles me on why did his presence affect her from summoning a spirit if he did used his own power. Also how about her fight with Bickslow? And I just gave myself another proof, Aries could've opened her gate to help out Karen. Now if they could open their gates with their own power at the time, why didn't she open hers?

 

[Axiomus]

And the CSK destroyed Plutogrimm and sliced the earth in two. While Yes Irene was able to Use enchantment to increase her strength to break every bone in Erza's body it didn't stop Erza from easily stopping Irene's strongest battle attack and get sliced. Azir left Erza in a worse condition than Irene. Wendy performed better against Irene than Dimaria. Yet I don't see people claiming Irene is only on Erza's level.

Erza can dodge the claw swipe just as well as she was dodging most of Irene's nukes. Erza didn't even try to dodge and it didn't matter in the end anyway.

Also who said the IKusatsungi isn't on Spriggan level? Last time I checked Natsu used more power to knock him out than he did Jacob and Nienheart.

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Jacob:

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Why are people using double standards? It is okay for Natsu to one shot Jacob and Nienheart who are Spriggan tier using Blaze/Fire Demolition fist but when it is someone else they are weaker. The War God is without a doubt Spriggan tier.

As far as the CSK is concerned he outclassed Marde Geer in Attack power and really that is all that matters because none of Marde Geer attacks left a scratch on the CSK. The difference is that the CSK actually tanked Marde Geer infinite thorns instead of dodging the attack like Marde. It left him unscathed.

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So how is it okay for us to say Irene is stronger than Erza and Wendy when they got the best of her multiple times during the battle. Even tanked her attacks. Yet Marde Geer never tanked CSK attacks and none of his attacks even fazed the CSK. But yet for some reason he is only Marde Geer level. Which makes no sense considering he bested Marde Geer multiple times in the battle.

Before you say Irene only lost because she killed herself the same logic could be applied to CSK in which the only reason he left was because Lucy was running out of magical power. The difference between the two though is Irene was Bloody and Beaten while the CSK was unscathed.

Why the double standard?

I feel like since it is a Lucy feat people want to belittle it and try to make it seem way less than what it was. CSK is beyond Marde Geer level. Marde Geer has never been able to replicate the power of the CSK, EVER. Unless someone has a feat of Marde Geer showing a powerful destructive spell. Mori mento might come close if it actually worked.

Irene broke all of Erza's bones and was about to stab Erza with her own sword before she committed suicide. Erza, even with Wendy's help and dragon slaying enchantment to her sword, could not beat Irene. Wendy had a dragon slaying advantage against Irene. Without Wendy, Erza can't even scratch Irene in her dragon form and it would only take a couple of strikes for Irene to kill Erza. Mard Geer can dodge CSK all day and harass him with thorns, and if he's really in a tight spot he still has his etherious form which can fly and cast MM.

Ikusatsunagi was not a Spriggan tier because Natsu never sensed the overwhelming amount of magical power from him. He may have taken a demolition fist to beat, but that could just be because he's huge (towers over a mountain). Natsu used an FDK roar against Zeref's army as well. It doesn't mean the soldiers were Spriggan level. Natsu also had to enter FDK mode to beat Jacob, whereas War God was beaten in base.

Like you said, Momento Mori is Mard's best spell. Mard never used his etherious form against the Spirit King, so we don't know how he really would have done if he went all out. All we know is that from the brief exchange. Lucy running out of power isn't the same thing as committing suicide. It wasn't as if CSK was about to stab Mard, and then just took pity on him because he was his father. If CSK summoned himself to fight Mard, he would be even weaker than he is with Lucy summoning him.

Look, I don't want to make it sound like I'm downplaying Lucy. She's actually my favourite female character, and I would love it if she advanced further in the tournament. I even went out of my way to find a nice looking pic for her thumbnail. One of my hopes for this arc was to have CSK fight August. With all that said, it's super far fetched to believe that her rate of improvement with star dress means that the CSK is now an equal to Acnologia. Zeref is trying to obtain an infinite source of magical power so that he can go back in time to kill of Acnologia before he rises to power. Anna herself wants to trap Acnologia in the voids of time. I don't really have a problem if you want to say Lucy can beat a Spriggan.

 

[Nemispelled]

I didn't say that she is on his lvl, I mean she is a sametype mage as him.


It was Erza's swrod and it is she slash Irene, not Wendy.


But why?? Wendy never able to use real dragon power, she said Grandina blocks her seed growth. And even if she does, how Wendy or other DS can be more stronger than strongest wizadr and DS which lives 400 years and get realy great magic power that allow her to enchant whole country and 1 million soldier (each of them has power to beat Erza) in the same time??


Irene in million times stronger than Wendy. How she can win?
If you think that her DS magic allow her to beat the strongest DS (besides Acno of course), so why that strongest DS can't beat Wendy for the same reason? They have same magic, but Irene much stronger, I don't see any chance for Wendy.

And:
Erza (who beat Irene) used Azir's weakness against him and anyway he beat her.

Irene may be the same type of mage as Acnologia (such as an actual dragon), but her pain tolerance that causes her to revert back to human is much lower.

Erza's sword was only enchanted by DS magic. That means real dragon slaying magic would actually be more effective in reverting Irene back to human form. If Erza could revert Irene with only a little amount of DS magic, then Wendy should have no problem doing the same if she went DF and used actual dragon slaying spells.

Wendy and the other DS in this Group doesn't even need to use a real dragon's power though. Their magic alone was made to be very effective in defeating or reverting dragons.

Erza is strong, but when she canceled Irene's dragon form, 95% of her bones were broken. That means, it wasn't her power that defeated Irene. It was Wendy's DS-enchanted magic inside the sword.

 

[Axiomus]

Irrelevant, Natsu is using his MP to increase his strength, which means that like you said, MP can be used more effectively. The ratio of MP to strength isnt 1:1, otherwise there'd be no point in using Dragon Force.

If Lucy doesnt consciously give her spirits power, then how does it work? You said what strengthens the spirit is actually just whatever power Lucy can spare, but how is it that Lucy is giving that spirit her leftover power while also summoning a second spirit? By your logic every time Lucy summons another spirit, the first spirit would have to be weakened, which has never been the case. It simply doesnt make sense.
Dont really understand what you meant about Urano Metria and Jackal. She couldnt properly use Urano Metria before Aquarious Dress could she? And Jackal wasnt her only enemy, she needed to save FT.

I'll take your word for the Japanese stuff. But as for the nitpicking, you're missing my point. Regardless of how Lucy obtained her boost in strength, whats clear is that she obtained it, and that she is on an entirely different level thanks to that. You trying to pick apart the argument by saying "Lucy prob hasnt even gotten that much stronger, she just learned a new technique" as though her being able to use Star Dress without the CSK isnt an incredible feat in itself, seems pretty ridiculous. Especially since it doesnt even affect my argument since she can always go into Star Dress before summoning CSK. Should i go around saying "Gray hasnt made any improvement other than DeS mode, Natsu hasnt made any improvement beyond FDK moves and everyone's MP is just the same as it was and no one has made any improvements beyond the one or two new techniques they've showcased". Thats what you're doing by downplaying the significance of Lucy learning Star Dress, sorry if that sounds rude, but do you get where im coming from?

I never said CSK had to be on Acno's level or close to it, i just said he'd be top top tier. As in Zeref tier, or August tier, enough to hold off Acno.

I agree. The ratio of MP to strength is not necessarily 1:1, but it's probably within reasonable grounds. Either way, the CSk has his own supply of magical power. Of the power available to the CSK, both his own and Lucy's, Lucy's power probably isn't the large majority of it. Maybe CSK uses a very effective magic that has a high MP to strength ratio. Or maybe not. This doesn't change what I'm saying.

The spirit simply uses some of Lucy's power when they need to. I don't see why Lucy has to be conscious of this for it to take effect. Lucy doesn't pour the majority of her power into her spirits. It's not like she uses 30% of her power to open a gate, and then the remaining 70% to power the spirit. She would run out of power quite fast. It's more like 30% to open the gate, and then 10-20% to power the spirit and the rest is in reserve in case she needs to summon another spirit. I don't think Lucy is conscious of this, or even has control over this. It's just the way the MP is distributed overall. The figures are approximate, but the point is that all the magical power either comes from Lucy or her spirit.

You are saying the improvements to the spirits come as a result of Lucy's MP. You pointed out that Makarov sensed that Lucy's power felt different from a year ago. I'm pointing out how the major increases in Lucy's overall MP comes from her access to star dress, which is her using the MP reserves of her spirits. I'm not saying that Lucy made no improvements over the timeskip. Inevitably, she's been training for a year. If I'm being honest, Lucy was pretty impressive with the way she handled Brandish.

You remember when Lucy first summoned CSK? The Spirit King was already engaging with Mard Geer using attacks like meteor blade, before he granted Lucy the stardress. At that point Lucy was close to exhaustion, and lying on the ground. When Lucy got the star dress, Lucy obviously powered up. CSK didn't power-up exponentially from "exhausted Lucy" to "I can oneshot Jackal-Lucy". Giving Lucy the star-dress gave Lucy more magical power, which helped her sustain the spirit king for longer. In this sense, equipping a stardress helps. Lucy is not going to summon the spirit king and then equip a Aquarius stardress, and then go "Aquarius' star dress doubles my power, so the spirit king's power just doubled". This is the point I'm getting at. This is so obviously a math trick.

If you want to say CSK is Zeref/August/Irene level, I suppose that's within the realms of reason. It was actually my hope for CSK to fight August in this arc. I just thought you were suggesting that CSK was on Acnologia's level, which is too much of a leap for me. IMO, nobody is on Acnologia's level except maybe Igneel...and strictly speaking, Igneel was weaker.

 

[Seven777]

I agree. The ratio of MP to strength is not necessarily 1:1, but it's probably within reasonable grounds. Either way, the CSk has his own supply of magical power and of the power available to the CSK, Lucy's power probably isn't the large majority of it.

The spirit simply uses some of Lucy's power when they need to. I don't see why Lucy has to be conscious of this for it to take effect. Lucy doesn't pour the majority of her power into her spirits. It's not like she uses 30% of her power to open a gate, and then the remaining 60% to power the spirit. She would run out of power quite fast. It's more like 30% to open the gate, and then 10-20% to power the spirit and the rest is in reserve in case she needs to summon another spirit.

You are saying the improvements to the spirits come as a result of Lucy's MP. You pointed out that Makarov sensed that Lucy's power felt different from a year ago. I'm pointing out how the major increases in Lucy's overall MP comes from her access to star dress, which is her using the MP reserves of her spirits. I'm not saying that Lucy made no improvements over the timeskip. Inevitably, she's been training for a year. If I'm being honest, Lucy was pretty impressive with the way she handled Brandish.

You remember when Lucy first summoned CSK and was exhausted before Jackal? The Spirit King was already engaging with Mard Geer before he granted Lucy the stardress. He was already using his attacks like meteor blade. When Lucy got the star dress, CSK didn't power-up exponentially from "exhausted Lucy to "I can oneshot Jackal Lucy". Giving Lucy the star-dress gave Lucy more magical power, which helped her sustain the spirit king for longer. In this sense, equipping a stardress helps. Lucy is not going to summon the spirit and then equip a Aquarius stardress, and then go "Aquarius' star dress doubles my power, so the spirit king's power just doubled".

If you want to say CSK is Zeref/August/Irene level, I suppose that's within the realms of reason. It was actually my hope for CSK to fight August in this arc. I just thought you were suggesting that CSK was on Acnologia's level, which is too much of a leap for me. IMO, nobody is on Acnologia's level except maybe Igneel...and strictly speaking, Igneel was weaker.

I'd agree it would have to be a reasonable amount, if it wasnt for the enormous sacrifice that comes with summoning the CSK. Imo while the CSK does have his own MP amount, that amount is correlates directly to how powerful his summoner is.

That would make celestial spirits power pretty inconsistent. They have also never been conscious of drawing specific amounts of power from Lucy, it has always just been "how long she can maintain our strength", not "how much strength should we take from her". So to me its more 15% to open the gate, 15% to maintain their strength, depending on the spirit and which version of Lucy this is.

Well actually i've been saying(or at least meaning) is that an improvement to Lucy's spirits come from an improvement to Lucy's strength, not necessarily MP. But how does Lucy using her MP reserves of her spirits, change the fact that her MP has increased? Its not like her spirits get weaker, she can even use Dresses without the spirits summoned. Besides, achieving the form herself without CSK suggests big improvement.
Difference is that the Star Dress came from CSK's own power, so increasing Lucy's with it naturally wouldnt increase his own.

I think you're misunderstanding my point too(understandable since i got off track with the MP argument). CSK isnt becoming stronger because Lucy is giving him more MP. The CSK is becoming stronger for no other reason than because Lucy is stronger herself. There is no extra exchange in MP this time that is increasing CSK's strength, its simply a case of Stronger Lucy=Stronger Spirit. I'll give you an example of how i see it.
So say Tenrou Lucy has 100MP, she then spends 50MP to summon/maintain Loke, who is summoned with a set MP of 120,
Then Alvarez Lucy has 300MP, still spends 50MP to maintain Loke but because Lucy is stronger, Loke is automatically summoned with a set of 360MP.
The act of summoning while being stronger is what increases her spirits strength, not the MP she gives them while summoned. The MP she gives them while summoned has always been exactly the same, thats why summoning more spirits at a time becomes doable as Lucy increases in strength.
Ha, yeah, i wanted CSK to fight August too, i even commented on it a while back.

 

[Hermit]

Erza's sword was only enchanted by DS magic. That means real dragon slaying magic would actually be more effective in reverting Irene back to human form.

It was the end of the fight, and Irene had just used her strongest move (Universe One not withstanding). Keep in mind that she's the ONLY Spriggan who's been constantly using her magic since her introduction, so by the time she encountered Erza and Wendy, I'd guess she was at around 60% of her power. She wasn't fully loaded with magic. So her being reverted to dragon form can also be attributed to her being overall fatigued/tired as well.
And I'm assuming that she gets to start this fight at 100%? Even in her dragon form, normal DS attacks wouldn't be able to revert her back to normal. She's easily the strongest person in this bracket, and I think it's a safe bet to say she soloes everyone here (all the Dragon Slayers as well).
Also, enchanting=Affixing magic onto something.
Wendy affixed her Dragon Slaying Magic onto the sword, there is no discrepancy here between what Wendy did back then and real Dragon Slaying Magic. It's all the same in the end, Dragon Slaying Magic.

 

[Brandish μ]

As much as I like Lucy, she can't progress from here.

Even though she's cleared of emotional/psychological impediments (as per the rules) I still think breaking a key is a no-go. She loves all those spirits... she'd need a guild-threat type situation to break one... not a tournament win. Plus I'm not making her cry to get a win here

 

[Unnamed Namesake]

Irene may be the same type of mage as Acnologia (such as an actual dragon), but her pain tolerance that causes her to revert back to human is much lower.

Erza's sword was only enchanted by DS magic. That means real dragon slaying magic would actually be more effective in reverting Irene back to human form. If Erza could revert Irene with only a little amount of DS magic, then Wendy should have no problem doing the same if she went DF and used actual dragon slaying spells.

Wendy and the other DS in this Group doesn't even need to use a real dragon's power though. Their magic alone was made to be very effective in defeating or reverting dragons.

Erza is strong, but when she canceled Irene's dragon form, 95% of her bones were broken. That means, it wasn't her power that defeated Irene. It was Wendy's DS-enchanted magic inside the sword.

We don't actually know the effectiveness of the enchantment, just like we don't know the effectiveness of artificial dragon slaying magic. It's a hot topic of debate, but we saw Laxus' and Erik's magic was just as effective against the dragons, even if they were poorly paired (Cobra's not having a nose but still getting knocked to the ground, and Laxus' having no correlation to lightning but still getting sent flying). Wendy's enchantment seems a more natural source than DS lacrimas unless the lacrimas come from dragons themselves. But Wendy enchanting the blade with DS magic rendered Irenes scales asunder, which is how Erza was able to cut through.

Even Acnologia was afflicted by DS magic on Tenrou, but it was the combined force of three dragon slayers just to knock him back. While Irene isn't as powerful as Acnologia, Wendy isn't as powerful as Wendy, Natsu, and Gajeel put together. In Irene's human form, their magic is just as effective on her as normal fire, wind, metal, etc. and base Irene hilariously outclasses Wendy, no matter if she's DF or not.

Erza's right side got shattered when she got non-commitally bitch-slapped. Now imagine Irene trying to kill Erza and Wendy. They're field mice trying to beat an eagle.

 

[kkck]

As much as I like Lucy, she can't progress from here.

Even though she's cleared of emotional/psychological impediments (as per the rules) I still think breaking a key is a no-go. She loves all those spirits... she'd need a guild-threat type situation to break one... not a tournament win. Plus I'm not making her cry to get a win here

Well, that ultimately depends on whether this is a fight to the death or not. If it is then there is no reason for at least lucy's spirits bitch slapping sense into her. A sad lucy is preferable to a dead one after all. Which is not to say her sadness isn't a tragedy but still.

 

[Nemispelled]

It was the end of the fight, and Irene had just used her strongest move (Universe One not withstanding). Keep in mind that she's the ONLY Spriggan who's been constantly using her magic since her introduction, so by the time she encountered Erza and Wendy, I'd guess she was at around 60% of her power. She wasn't fully loaded with magic. So her being reverted to dragon form can also be attributed to her being overall fatigued/tired as well.
And I'm assuming that she gets to start this fight at 100%? Even in her dragon form, normal DS attacks wouldn't be able to revert her back to normal. She's easily the strongest person in this bracket, and I think it's a safe bet to say she soloes everyone here (all the Dragon Slayers as well).
Also, enchanting=Affixing magic onto something.
Wendy affixed her Dragon Slaying Magic onto the sword, there is no discrepancy here between what Wendy did back then and real Dragon Slaying Magic. It's all the same in the end, Dragon Slaying Magic.

But wouldn't that go for Wendy and Erza as well?

Irene only used Universe One, that's not much.

Erza fought Ajeel, nearly died, fought Historias, then blocked END and DeS Gray's punch at the same time.

Wendy fought Historias at Hargeon Port and also fought Dimaria with Chelia. She was also quite exhausted by that time.

If anything, I would bet Irene had a lot more magic power to start out with compared to Erza and Wendy, who each already fought another Spriggan.

 

[Axiomus]

I'd agree it would have to be a reasonable amount, if it wasnt for the enormous sacrifice that comes with summoning the CSK. Imo while the CSK does have his own MP amount, that amount is correlates directly to how powerful his summoner is.

That would make celestial spirits power pretty inconsistent. They have also never been conscious of drawing specific amounts of power from Lucy, it has always just been "how long she can maintain our strength", not "how much strength should we take from her". So to me its more 15% to open the gate, 15% to maintain their strength, depending on the spirit and which version of Lucy this is.

Well actually i've been saying(or at least meaning) is that an improvement to Lucy's spirits come from an improvement to Lucy's strength, not necessarily MP. But how does Lucy using her MP reserves of her spirits, change the fact that her MP has increased? Its not like her spirits get weaker, she can even use Dresses without the spirits summoned. Besides, achieving the form herself without CSK suggest big improvement.
Difference is that the Star Dress came from CSK's own power, so increasing Lucy's with it naturally wouldnt increase his own.

I think you're misunderstanding my point too(understandable since i got off track with the MP argument). CSK isnt becoming stronger because Lucy is giving him more MP. The CSK is becoming stronger for no other reason than because Lucy is stronger herself. There is no extra exchange in MP this time that is increasing CSK's strength, its simply a case of Stronger Lucy=Stronger Spirit. I'll give you an example of how i see it.
So say Tenrou Lucy has 100MP, she then spends 50MP to summon/maintain Loke, who is summoned with a set MP of 120,
Then Alvarez Lucy has 300MP, still spends 50MP to maintain Loke but because Lucy is stronger, Loke is automatically summoned with a set of 360MP.
The act of summoning while being stronger is what increases her spirits strength, not the MP she gives them while summoned. The MP she gives them while summoned has always been exactly the same, thats why summoning more spirits at a time becomes doable as Lucy increases in strength.
Ha, yeah, i wanted CSK to fight August too, i even commented on it a while back.

This is how I see things:
CSK's overall power = Lucy's magic power + CSK's own magic power - power necessary to maintain the gate (covered by Lucy)
Meteor Blade's damage = How much power the Spirit King can convert into strength or magical damage.
DF Natsu's power = Natsu's magical power
DF Demolition Fist's damage = How much magic power Natsu can convert to flames and dragonize to increase physical strength
This is what I think you're saying:
Lucy's power = CSK's power
10x Lucy's power = 10x CSK's power
Galaxia Blade = Directly drains Lucy's power
DF Natsu = MP just increase for him

I don't think I'm misunderstanding your point, I just don't agree with it. To me, the first interpretation just makes more sense because all the magic power is accounted for. I don't believe you can simply multiply Lucy's power level and expect to see the same ratio of improvement with all spirits. Aquarius' star dress provided Lucy with Aquarius' magical power, not the CSK's. CSK should have gotten a power-up if his power was directly proportional to Lucy's as a percentage. He didn't though.

I don't think higher magical power and more effective MP-to-strength is mutually exclusive either. The CSK can have higher magical power than Lucy and use a stronger type of magic than the rest of her spirits. This isn't a huge problem for me. Some magics are more efficient at doing damage, and some mages are stronger. Spirits should be no different.

I think what is often underestimated is the amount of power it takes for Lucy to open a gate. The emphasis of Celestial Spirit magic seems to be on the opening of gates. How many times has Lucy exhausted her magical supply after her spirits used a large attack (even Aquarius)? How many times has Lucy exhausted herself summoning multiple spirits back to back?