Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[HereNThere]

We also have the example of Rayleigh kicking Kizaru, Jozu hitting Aokiji, Whitebeared hitting Akainu, Marguerite shooting a haki infused arrow, Law cutting a Hardened Vergo, Law taking Smoker's heart, and Doflamingo cutting Smoker.

We can assume Sentoumaru was referring to Armament when Luffy destroyed the Pacifista because he stated it was "imbued", which is a term only applied to Armament Haki.

Oda has made mistakes before, but he's fixed them in the volumes. He coloured in Luffy's fist during his fight against Ceasar, however, all of these examples were left as they were, meaning that there are two variations of Haki. Nevermind the fact that Hardening is an apparent sub category of Armament with it's own specific name.

As we've seen in this past arc, Hardening will most likely be used a hell of a lot more often than earlier in the time skip to make it apparent when Haki is being used. I think Oda was attempting to do it with the little electric sparks we'd see from time to time during clashes, but those aren't as clear as straight up black.

 

[Shasha23]

So any explanation as how Rayleigh blocked the elephant on RI without even coming in contact with it and how the Admirals blocked WB's attack at the execution stand with their arms outstretched? I think it's pretty clear that there's invisible Haki and also the hardening.

that was before the NW were haki is vital or are you trying to say everyone after time skip has better haki than everyone who was at the war of the best?
its pretty simple, back then Oda didn't think about making them go dark, but he started doing it after timeskip

---------- Post added at 11:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 PM ----------

We also have the example of Rayleigh kicking Kizaru, Jozu hitting Aokiji, Whitebeared hitting Akainu, Marguerite shooting a haki infused arrow, Law cutting a Hardened Vergo, Law taking Smoker's heart, and Doflamingo cutting Smoker.

We can assume Sentoumaru was referring to Armament when Luffy destroyed the Pacifista because he stated it was "imbued", which is a term only applied to Armament Haki.

Oda has made mistakes before, but he's fixed them in the volumes. He coloured in Luffy's fist during his fight against Ceasar, however, all of these examples were left as they were, meaning that there are two variations of Haki. Nevermind the fact that Hardening is an apparent sub category of Armament with it's own specific name.

As we've seen in this past arc, Hardening will most likely be used a hell of a lot more often than earlier in the time skip to make it apparent when Haki is being used. I think Oda was attempting to do it with the little electric sparks we'd see from time to time during clashes, but those aren't as clear as straight up black.

that was before time skip when Oda didn't think of it yet

in a different translation he said use, meaning it could have been COO

yeap Oda makes mistakes and he doesn't always fix them

like I said darkening is just a way to us they are using COA just like he draws a star if they are using COO

 

[kkck]

Hardened haki does not necessarily mean "better" haki. Its just a skill that can be learned. Using it does not seem to imply a minimum of strength, just sufficient skill with haki. Based on what we have seen even someone with weak haki could potentially use the hardening. Heck, we even saw law cutting a fully hardened vergo even though law did not use hardening himself. It was a DF based attack but it is still worth mentioning.

And even now relatively few people have shown it though it does seem to be more common. To be fair though, even garp has been shown in flashbacks using it while in turn he did not use it before when attacking marco for instance.

 

[Shasha23]

Do you guys even hear yourselves trying to justify hardening?
there is no such thing as different COA, its just Oda showing us reader when they are using COA just like after timeskip he draws a star to show us when they are using COO, or are you going to come and say the COO with a star depicted is deferent because they didn't show Whitebeard, or any other pre timeskip person do it before so this is a different for of COO

---------- Post added at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

Hardened haki does not necessarily mean "better" haki. Its just a skill that can be learned. Using it does not seem to imply a minimum of strength, just sufficient skill with haki. Based on what we have seen even someone with weak haki could potentially use the hardening. Heck, we even saw law cutting a fully hardened vergo even though law did not use hardening himself. It was a DF based attack but it is still worth mentioning.

And even now relatively few people have shown it though it does seem to be more common. To be fair though, even garp has been shown in flashbacks using it while in turn he did not use it before when attacking marco for instance.

so in your POV hardening or not doesn't make a difference?
that is the point pre timeskip Garp didn't turn his hand dark but in a flashback after TIME SKIP he turns his hand dark, what does that tell you, its simple Oda depicts COA by users turning dark

 

[kkck]

so in your POV hardening or not doesn't make a difference?
that is the point pre timeskip Garp didn't turn his hand dark but in a flashback after TIME SKIP he turns his hand dark, what does that tell you, its simple Oda depicts COA by users turning dark

The manga has made the point that hardening is a distinct and more advanced ability of COA. And even after the timeskip we have seen both kinds of armor haki used repeatedly. There is no reasonable evidence that oda suddenly made a change and all haki is depicted now as black. If it all was the same thing then "hardening" wouldn't have a distinct name nor be such a plot point when it comes to NW weapons (mihawk made the point that any hardened weapon could potentially be as dangerous as his own blade). The notion that oda is simply forgetting to paint things black is asinine and unjustifiable considering how the manga has developed.

I am not saying it doesn't matter, I am saying its a relative thing and there isn't a minimum of strength required to use it beyond being able to use haki. So someones hardened haki could be inferior to someones non hardened haki.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

-the Tashigi one was just a snap of a panel like when Zoro cut Monet, Oda didn't draw the panel leading to the cuts but after the cut so it can be said when the panel was shown they had already de-activated their hake
-Oda has been know to make mistakes nothing to get serious about, he could have forgotten to colour it black
-Oda makes mistakes and if you look at it carefully, they don't turn dark when its obvious
-Sentomaru might have meant COO so your point doesn't really prove anything

I already explained about Monet and Tashigi, also there are other translation that went like this

Sentomaru : he was using haki

implying he used haki to dodge the lasers not haki to attack the pacifista

Observation haki is not called "Reinforcement" or can be "equipped"; as Rayleigh said, it's like armour and armour can be equipped while Observation can be activated.

Caeser was grabbed without black haki and was punched without black haki in both the anime and manga; Robin even confirmed while he was grabbed without black haki that Luffy was using haki while she spoke to Franky.

It's not really my point, it's fact except you'll attribute this as Oda's mistakes, translation error and animator's mistakes too. My aim isn't to prove you wrong, just to inform you as I was informed about haki not too long ago.

 

[Zehahaha]

People still arguing about this when it's clear gives me a headache... Hardening is simply a much more advanced form/skill of COA, that's all
Luffy was shown using both Hardening and " Invisible " one in many instances, and other characters too like Sanji/Law/Zoro/Tashigi

 

[XXGenesis]

People still arguing about this when it's clear gives me a headache... Hardening is simply a much more advanced form/skill of COA, that's all
Luffy was shown using both Hardening and " Invisible " one in many instances, and other characters too like Sanji/Law/Zoro/Tashigi

This.

Hardening wasn't shown Pre-Timeskip because Oda most likely den come up with the idea to illustrate it as such. & the whole mechanism of Haki wasn't explained yet....Now that Haki is prominent to the series in terms of supernatural power

Black Haki is his concentrated Hardening of Armanet/Coat of Arms Haki which it in its very basic form
Allows you to nerf DF invulnerabilities

 

[BASED Shinigami]

This for is for anyone who claims there are no instances or examples of characters using the invisible application of COA post-timeskip. COA is clearly broken up into two skills.The first skill entails the invisible application of COA as seen in the above panel. The second more advanced skill involves the black hardening application for offensive and defensive purposes. If anyone thinks otherwise, then I would suggest you reread the manga starting from the time-skip. I don't think I need to provide an example of someone using the second skill as most of you read the manga quite regularly. Hopefully this post will serve as closeure for the current discussion.

 

[Shasha23]

This for is for anyone who claims there are no instances or examples of characters using the invisible application of COA post-timeskip. COA is clearly broken up into two skills.The first skill entails the invisible application of COA as seen in the above panel. The second more advanced skill involves the black hardening application for offensive and defensive purposes. If anyone thinks otherwise, then I would suggest you reread the manga starting from the time-skip. I don't think I need to provide an example of someone using the second skill as most of you read the manga quite regularly. Hopefully this post will serve as closeure for the current discussion.

As stated Oda makes mistakes

1. He forgot Zoro was a supernova
2. Forgot Zoro's bounty was 120 and said it was 160
3. Zoro eye scar
4. Nami's climate tact
5. Luffy's hight
6. Luffy's straw hats

etc.

What makes you think that also wasn't a mistake?

Guess you should stop just reading and try to understand the manga

 

[kkck]

As stated Oda makes mistakes

1. He forgot Zoro was a supernova
2. Forgot Zoro's bounty was 120 and said it was 160
3. Zoro eye scar
4. Nami's climate tact
5. Luffy's hight
6. Luffy's straw hats

etc.

What makes you think that also wasn't a mistake?

Guess you should stop just reading and try to understand the manga

Mistakes are usually a one time thing. What you are suggesting is that oda would have made this mistake every time we know haki has been used but no hardening was seen. Its simply too much. Not to mention that it would have been corrected in the volumes, which to the best of my knowledge has not happened.

 

[BASED Shinigami]

As stated Oda makes mistakes

1. He forgot Zoro was a supernova
2. Forgot Zoro's bounty was 120 and said it was 160
3. Zoro eye scar
4. Nami's climate tact
5. Luffy's hight
6. Luffy's straw hats

etc.

What makes you think that also wasn't a mistake?

Guess you should stop just reading and try to understand the manga

I understand the manga quite well. First you claimed in previous posts that there were no instances or examples of a character using the invisible application of COA, then when numerous posters started providing clear examples you started rejecting their proofs as if you don't possess any common logic and reason. How long will you hold on to this ridiculous argument before you see the light? If Oda did make a mistake in the panel I posted previously, then I challenge you to prove your claims. Don't just say Oda makes mistakes and act as if everyone else who disagrees with you on this particular matter is in denial. Show me proof in the official volumes or from whatever credible source you can find that Oda made a mistake in this panel and other Haki related panels.

 

[Shasha23]

Mistakes are usually a one time thing. What you are suggesting is that oda would have made this mistake every time we know haki has been used but no hardening was seen. Its simply too much. Not to mention that it would have been corrected in the volumes, which to the best of my knowledge has not happened.

It's only 2 times I can remember where they didn't turn dark but every other time they did

---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 AM ----------

I understand the manga quite well. First you claimed in previous posts that there were no instances or examples of a character using the invisible application of COA, then when numerous posters started providing clear examples you started rejecting their proofs as if you don't possess any common logic and reason. How long will you hold on to this ridiculous argument before you see the light? If Oda did make a mistake in the panel I posted previously, then I challenge you to prove your claims. Don't just say Oda makes mistakes and act as if everyone else who disagrees with you on this particular matter is in denial. Show me proof in the official volumes or from whatever credible source you can find that Oda made a mistake in this panel and other Haki related panels.

I never said that, go back and try and understand what I was talking about, and properly read the post I quoted.
As I have said manga evidence points to the fact that after time skip Oda makes their limps turn black as illustration and that there is no 2 forms of haki like most of you are saying

 

[kkck]

It's only 2 times I can remember where they didn't turn dark but every other time they did


I never said that, go back and try and understand what I was talking about, and properly read the post I quoted.
As I have said manga evidence points to the fact that after time skip Oda makes their limps turn black as illustration and that there is no 2 forms of haki like most of you are saying

Destroying the pacifista, a number of times vergo hit smoker IIRC, hitting ceasar... Sanji has yet to show hardening but we also know he is a haki user because luffy said it to law. Also when zoro cut monet, tashigi and monet thought zoro was attacking with haki even though he never hardened. There would have been no room for confusion if haki always blackened the user. There is also every single thing tashigi has done in the manga. She can't harden for crap yet every time she hit monet she bled. There is no ground for the idea that hardening is the basic form of haki. The idea is absurd, unjustified, devoid of a shred of evidence and overall simply asinine. It didn't even appear when rayleigh was explaining haki to luffy. It implies understanding every past event where we know haki is a fact differently.

 

[Shasha23]

Observation haki is not called "Reinforcement" or can be "equipped"; as Rayleigh said, it's like armour and armour can be equipped while Observation can be activated.

Caeser was grabbed without black haki and was punched without black haki in both the anime and manga; Robin even confirmed while he was grabbed without black haki that Luffy was using haki while she spoke to Franky.

It's not really my point, it's fact except you'll attribute this as Oda's mistakes, translation error and animator's mistakes too. My aim isn't to prove you wrong, just to inform you as I was informed about haki not too long ago.

Different translation mate, the one I read he said "Mugiwara was using haki" meaning it could be COA or COO so what your saying is not a fact but speculation on your part based on the translation you read

---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 AM ----------

People still arguing about this when it's clear gives me a headache... Hardening is simply a much more advanced form/skill of COA, that's all
Luffy was shown using both Hardening and " Invisible " one in many instances, and other characters too like Sanji/Law/Zoro/Tashigi

It's only once he he punched CC his arm didn't turn black but that can be attributed to a mistake on Oda, 1 instance doesn't prove there are 2 forms of haki

---------- Post added at 02:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:28 AM ----------

Destroying the pacifista, a number of times vergo hit smoker IIRC, hitting ceasar... Sanji has yet to show hardening but we also know he is a haki user because luffy said it to law. Also when zoro cut monet, tashigi and monet thought zoro was attacking with haki even though he never hardened. There would have been no room for confusion if haki always blackened the user. There is also every single thing tashigi has done in the manga. She can't harden for crap yet every time she hit monet she bled. There is no ground for the idea that hardening is the basic form of haki. The idea is absurd, unjustified, devoid of a shred of evidence and overall simply asinine. It didn't even appear when rayleigh was explaining haki to luffy. It implies understanding every past event where we know haki is a fact differently.

Do you even hear yourself?
He didn't use COA on the Pacifista but he was using COO
Vergo never hit Smoker without him turning dark
Tashigi panel was after the event not leading to, same with Zoro I already explained on my previous post, you can't be sure if they didn't do it
LOL on the Sanji part, so your trying to say just because he hasn't been shown using haki you'll just go kn and assume he is using this "invisible" haki form you people are making up?

 

[BASED Shinigami]

It's only 2 times I can remember where they didn't turn dark but every other time they did

---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 AM ----------



I never said that, go back and try and understand what I was talking about, and properly read the post I quoted.
As I have said manga evidence points to the fact that after time skip Oda makes their limps turn black as illustration and that there is no 2 forms of haki like most of you are saying

Oh so you didn't say the following to Genjil?

"nope you cant even give an example because there is none

while the rest of you think there are 2 haki forms some of us see it as Oda drawing it black o we know when its being used or not, and some of the time he forget to draw it black but its like once or twice every other time they turn dark on the part they are using COA. So this whole thing of 2 haki's sounds ridiculous to some of us"

Those are your words.

Like I said before you're clearly denying all manga evidence and making up baseless claims as you go. You keep claiming Oda made a mistake in the Haki related panels, but you have not provided any credible evidence to support your argument. Indeed you are a lost cause. Believe what you want. I am done trying to reason with you.

 

[kkck]

Do you even hear yourself?
He didn't use COA on the Pacifista but he was using COO
Vergo never hit Smoker without him turning dark
Tashigi panel was after the event not leading to, same with Zoro I already explained on my previous post, you can't be sure if they didn't do it
LOL on the Sanji part, so your trying to say just because he hasn't been shown using haki you'll just go kn and assume he is using this "invisible" haki form you people are making up?

It just hit me, you are trolling us. Its simply not possible you actually believe we are making up invisible haki. It has been the norm and the basic form of haki from day one. The first time anyone in this forum ever heard the stuff you are saying is,well, when you said it.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Different translation mate, the one I read he said "Mugiwara was using haki" meaning it could be COA or COO so what your saying is not a fact but speculation on your part based on the translation you read

Language barrier I guess, lol.

 

[Shasha23]

Like I said before you're clearly denying all manga evidence and making up baseless claims as you go. You keep claiming Oda made a mistake in the Haki related panels, but you have not provided any credible evidence to support your argument. Indeed you are a lost cause. Believe what you want. I am done trying to reason with you.

It was only twice that he didn't colour them black, and that could clearly be a mistake, so I'm still waiting for this evidence your talking about that I'm ignoring.
I also asked you guys a question that does COO also have 2 form since before timeskip Oda didn't draw a star next to them but now he is so are you guys also going to say there is a star form COO laughable if you ask me.

It's pretty simple Oda decided to colour them black when using haki as not to confuse us but you guys are so close minded you can't even see it

---------- Post added at 10:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------

It just hit me, you are trolling us. Its simply not possible you actually believe we are making up invisible haki. It has been the norm and the basic form of haki from day one. The first time anyone in this forum ever heard the stuff you are saying is,well, when you said it.

Did you read and understand my reason for saying what I'm saying, you clearly didn't since your resorting to name calling like a child who can't have his way, the fact that you didn't even think of the possibility of Oda colouring them black shows your lack of understanding while reading the manga

 

[BASED Shinigami]

Could clearly be a mistake? Where are you getting this information from? Did Oda explicitly state that he made a mistake in the Haki related panels in a interview or somewhere else? Did he correct said panels in the official volumes? Unless you can prove it to me then I am forced to believe the author did not make a mistake as you're claiming. You have no idea how weak your argument is right now. You're relying soley on your unsupported findings and assumptions. You're the one who is close minded. You're ignoring the solid conclusions other posters have arrived at from examining manga evidence. The author clearly made it black in certain panels to illustrate that there is an advanced application of COA. A second skill in other words. Otherwise we would have seen the hardening application in all Haki related panels since the time-skip, but this has not been the case since Oda intentionally not mistakenly decided to make it invisible at certain times as seen in the examples posters have provided as evidence.

How can I accept your concocted theory when you haven't presented any proof?

What you're claiming is the equivalent of stating what goes up in the air isn't pulled down by gravity except you're aren't disclosing any evidence to support your theory. It is absurd. You have no right to call anyone close minded.

Please don't bother responding to my post if you're not going to give me proof that he made a mistake in the panel. I have had enough of your speculating.