Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[XXGenesis]

@Moegara
@Hannibal Psyche

You know Haki= Will. Haki is will power.
So whatever Zoro will’d his sword to do. Is considered a Haki feat.

Moe I absolutely agree with you. HP my understanding of translations from other cultures, is that sometimes certain expressions and phrases just don’t translate into its exact meaning but something vaguely off; because of the cultural differences.

BOAT was thought to Zoro by a Swordsman descendant of Wano. Hyogoro explicitly mentions this philosophy along with its real application of how it’s done. Ryu/Advanced Haki, coating your swords with an aura.

You are too adamant on a concept that is mentioned like 3 times for it to be its whole own thing. It’s not, it’s been explained as Haki. It just wouldn’t make sense for it to be it’s own thing with all that’s been introduced

 

[Fox666]

"Mighty Blade" (豪剣) seems to be a title of sort, since it appears inside quotes in the Japanese version.

I'm under the impression it's just a title given to a swordsman who can cut through steel. Every time Mighty Blade was mentioned it had something to do with cutting steel.

When Zoro and Hyogoro were talking about a sword than can cut steel or not cut a piece of paper (chapters 195 and 939), they used the term Mighty Blade. And when Brook said Ryuma must have been a Mighty Blade, it was after Zoro cut the steel door behind Ryuma.

Going by Hyogoro explanation, it has something to do with Haki. However, it's not necessarily Armament, since that wouldn't make the sword not cut through paper. Rather, the sword acts like a muscle of the swordsman...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

If you read properly you would realize that my interpretation does not deny BOAT is the ability to convey "wills" into the blade. After all, haki is ambition.

Wrong mate.

Haki is not Ambition if you actually read a proper translation.

BOAT and Haki are 2 completely different concepts.

Show me where it states Haki as being Ambition or Will?

The example you used to justify what you believe Goukens are was flawed to hell, as already explained. Gouken and flying slashes have nothing to do with BOAT as far as what facts tell us.

Lol.

Zoro telling his Sword is a canon and then it projects canon-like attacks.

Telling your sword what to do which is the fundamental of BOAT... you say it's not BOAT lol, alright bud.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

The way you sum up my view as if I ever said "haki is the ability to cut steel" as to underplay it is childish.

Umm... that's more or less what you did since you said what Hyo was speaking about was Haki when he was speaking about 2 different things.

Haki is an ability that allows to augment one's power and durability, so yes, in this specific case, it translates into being able to cut steel (on top of that, without damaging the blade) when seconds before, without haki, you couldn't even scratch it.

Wrong.

The ability to cut steel is not what Koshiro was talking about IF you read his message properly.

His point was the ability to convey your will into your Sword will more or less give you greater power.

Has nothing to do with a weapon being hardened which is what Haki does... harden things.

Haki is not the power to cut steel.

A Hardened weapon also doesn't guarantee being able to cut steel... it has to be strong enough to do so. There's such a thing as weak haki bud.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

You can theorize on it being another thing altogether and it's cool to have theories. Parts of them could even be right, but it's wrong to call them facts. I understand the effort you put into your theory, but it's far from perfect.

Far from perfect, but you can't point out any flaws, lol.

That's like looking at an algebraic equation, and a formula explains all the number patterns, and then you say it's incorrect, lol.

Your logic here is pretty much nonexistent.

So "WILLING" your Sword to act like a Cannon... is not BOAT? Alright bud.

Willing the ability of Leopards into your Swordstyle and performing techniques that a Zoan was shocked by?

Willing the power of Asura... is not BOAT even though BOAT is a will-based power?

Lol... yeah sure.

Let me know when you find these flaws that you can't pinpoint.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Guys, I have to say: Kaido just doesn't strike me as the prototype evil, that maybe some people perceive him as. Of course, he wants to drop an island ontop of another, knowing that there will be casualties. But the interactions with his crew make me believe that he actually cares for his members (e.g. talk with jack, whom he praises for holding out long enough against full-moon minks and persuades him into resting).

What? Someone wants to drop an Island on people, is not evil?

Doesn't matter what sort of evil we want to label a person with, he's plain evil.

Just because he complimented a few makes him not so evil?

Do you know why Kaido didn't kill Luffy and Kid? it's not because he's not evil, he's just smart enough not to be stupid to kill people who would potentially make his crew stronger.

You're essentially saying a psychopath is not evil simply because of 1 or 2 relatively nice deeds.

Psychopaths can compliment people and then go on to kill an entire family just because they felt like it.

Kaido simply cares for his own ambitions.

He showed care towards Orochi by eating, drinking with him and even trying to alleviate his fears. This is something clever psychopaths, they pretend for their own benefits and do what's necessary.

Psychopaths would like people and show care towards people as long as they're doing things that benefit them (e.g. Big Mom hates everyone including family unless they're doing things that benefit her).

Don't be fooled by nice interactions, Joker was also nice to his crew, but was still completely evil.

I actually genuinely like Kaido. Now, this may be a subjective view on personality traits.

In other words, you like psychopaths who can pretend to be nice people... or genuinely be nice... and then decide to kill 100s of thousands of people at a whim.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

That's what I believe as well: the Breath of all Things was definitely explained by Hyogoro as part of how Wano samurai understand Haki.

Where in this did Hyogoro say the ability to break a sheet of paper and not break it... is a part of Haki?

All Hyogoro said was:

• There in an invisible power that stems from the body and can be infused with the blade. [Obviously referring to Armament)

Then he said:

• A good katana will cut through steel when you want it to... and it will not break a sheet of paper if you do not wish it so. It is all according to the desire (will) of the Swordsman. [Obviously BOAT)

He spoke about 2 different powers. Where did he say they're one and the same?

Whar you're doing is like reading this panel here... and saying because Observation Haki was said to be able to read locations, number and movement of enemies BUT Armament Haki was mentioned on the same page, that Armament Haki is the power to read the location, number and movement of enemies too.

You know 2 completely different things can be said in the same page...? Like you can talk about Celestial Dragons and the Revolutionary Army on the same page... and surely that doesn't mean CD and RA are therefore the same thing.

Again, at what point in this panel did Hyogoro say the ability to make a sword cut paper and not cut paper... is haki?

 

[Nie Li]

What? Someone wants to drop an Island on people, is not evil?

Doesn't matter what sort of evil we want to label a person with, he's plain evil.

Just because he complimented a few makes him not so evil?

Do you know why Kaido didn't kill Luffy and Kid? it's not because he's not evil, he's just smart enough not to be stupid to kill people who would potentially make his crew stronger.

You're essentially saying a psychopath is not evil simply because of 1 or 2 relatively nice deeds.

Psychopaths can compliment people and then go on to kill an entire family just because they felt like it.

Kaido simply cares for his own ambitions.

He showed care towards Orochi by eating, drinking with him and even trying to alleviate his fears. This is something clever psychopaths, they pretend for their own benefits and do what's necessary.

Psychopaths would like people and show care towards people as long as they're doing things that benefit them (e.g. Big Mom hates everyone including family unless they're doing things that benefit her).

Don't be fooled by nice interactions, Joker was also nice to his crew, but was still completely evil.



In other words, you like psychopaths who can pretend to be nice people... or genuinely be nice... and then decide to kill 100s of thousands of people at a whim.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Where in this did Hyogoro say the ability to break a sheet of paper and not break it... is a part of Haki?

All Hyogoro said was:

• There in an invisible power that stems from the body and can be infused with the blade. [Obviously referring to Armament)

Then he said:

• A good katana will cut through steel when you want it to... and it will not break a sheet of paper if you do not wish it so. It is all according to the desire (will) of the Swordsman. [Obviously BOAT)

He spoke about 2 different powers. Where did he say they're one and the same?

Whar you're doing is like reading this panel here... and saying because Observation Haki was said to be able to read locations, number and movement of enemies BUT Armament Haki was mentioned on the same page, that Armament Haki is the power to read the location, number and movement of enemies too.

You know 2 completely different things can be said in the same page...? Like you can talk about Celestial Dragons and the Revolutionary Army on the same page... and surely that doesn't mean CD and RA are therefore the same thing.

Again, at what point in this panel did Hyogoro say the ability to make a sword cut paper and not cut paper... is haki?

You've gone on about that for a while now and you're not saying anything new.

There being a dot means they are different sentences, but he's still talking about the same thing, which is pretty obvious by context. Let's stop spinning around in circles about this.

And the comparison with the Rayleigh page is outright silly. Rayleigh clearly introduces two separated concepts and he properly says their name to explain them. Hyogoro doesn't, because he's only explaining ryou.

If you want to talk more about haki you can do so in the Haki thread. You or anyone else that wants to discuss that.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You've gone on about that for a while now and you're not saying anything new.

There being a dot means they are different sentences, but he's still talking about the same thing, which is pretty obvious by context. Let's stop spinning around in circles about this.

Your logic is if anything is said on the same page, it's therefore the same thing. Like I said, your logic here is flawed, lol. If this is how you read the story, you're just bound to misunderstand things.

Anyway, that'll be that, at least now I understand where the source of misunderstanding is coming from.

 

[Nie Li]

Your logic is if anything is said on the same page, it's therefore the same thing. Like I said, your logic here is flawed, lol. If this is how you read the story, you're just bound to misunderstand things.

Anyway, that'll be that, at least now I understand where the source of misunderstanding is coming from.

Don't be condescending. It's not a good look when you're in the wrong.

It's not about being in the same page, it's about Hyogoro being: "Hey, I'll explain to you how to achieve advanced haki. In Wano we call it Ryou. It's the power of infusing your aura into the blade. A good katana can be very fragile or cut through steel according to our desires".

There are two reasons why you believe they are two separate things:

1: Oh, my, God, there's a point. What is this. A point. It means they're two separate concepts!

2: It suits your preconceived headcannons on what BOAT is.

That is all.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

oh man, even if Oda doesnt do this, you will have a better end to the story....

While I don't believe in this bouncy castle theory.

I don't know if Luffy will Awaken here, but it would be nice if he did to show one has to be at pinnacle to take on Emperors.

However, if that isn't the case... based on how I believe Luffy's Awakening will develop (ability to stretch further)... I think that would be extremely beneficial against someone like Blackbeard whom you don't want to be remotely in range of.

As well as the ability to use Future Sight given that Blackbeard has to aim before he can draw you into his palm to nullify DF power. If Luffy can see where he will place his palm before drawing in the opponent... Luffy will be able to dodge the arm placement and perform long-ranged attacks.

Issue will be that Haki like Observation and Armament at the highest level probably deplete very quickly if used... which is probably why Luffy's not been using it often and is saving it all for Kaido.

Then you have to consider the fact Whitebeard has the Gura Gura no Mi meaning no matter where you are... it's nigh impossible to be out of his range. I actually don't think Luffy will defeat him alone. I'd expect Zoro and Luffy to need to join to do this tbh, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Don't be condescending. It's not a good look when you're in the wrong.

It's not about being in the same page, it's about Hyogoro being: "Hey, I'll explain to you how to achieve advanced haki. In Wano we call it Ryou. It's the power of infusing your aura into the blade. A good katana can be very fragile or cut through steel according to our desires".

There are two reasons why you believe they are two separate things:

1: Oh, my, God, there's a point. What is this. A point. It means they're two separate concepts!

2: It suits your preconceived headcannons on what BOAT is.

That is all.

Headcannon that BOAT is the power to convey one's will into their weapon?

A good katana can be very fragile or cut through steel according to our desires".

Chief, it doesn't say a good katana can be very fragile, that's headcanon.

And you're creating a contradiction here... how is a good katana fragile? Aren't good Katanas supposed to be the opposite of fragile? ... odd translation

It says a good katana will cut through steel when you want it to and it will not break a sheet of paper... according to the desire of the Swordsman.

You're making up your own translations now, lol.

 

[Nie Li]

Headcannon that BOAT is the power to convey one's will into their weapon?

It is headcannon that BOAT is unrelated to haki.

Your whole explanation of BOAT as you presented it in the other thread is a huge headcannon, of which some parts don't even really make sense. It's a cool theory but it's based on thin air, and you're having to support it by believing Hyogoro was explaining two separate concepts, despite he only naming one and trying to explain said one. Because, somehow, you don't know that dots separate sentences, and not necessarily concepts.

Chief, it doesn't say a good katana can be very fragile, that's headcanon.

It says a good katana will cut through steel when you want it to and it will not break a sheet of paper.

You're making up your own translations now, lol.

Chief, I know that.

I simply reworded their mantra to try and make you understand the absurdity of your claim.

The fact that you're pointing out I obviously changed the wording instead of trying to understand what I'm telling you is proof enough of your tunnel vision.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It is headcannon that BOAT is unrelated to haki.

Where was it stated that BOAT is Haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

and you're having to support it by believing Hyogoro was explaining two separate concepts, despite he only naming one and trying to explain said one

Actually, if you read the entire page... Hyogoro did name it... what he described is given to MIGHTY BLADE users.

You know where else MIGHTY BLADE was spoken about? In Alabasta. The ability to cut and not cut is called Mighty Blade/BOAT. RYUMA was also called a MIGHTY BLADE along with Zoro in Thriller Bark.

Hyogoro talks about MIGHTY BLADE and ARMAMENT in the very chapter, so your claim that I'm making up 2 concepts when it's explicitly mentioned is pretty absurd lol. Those are 2 different concepts bud.

 

[Nie Li]

Where was it stated that BOAT is Haki?

1: Where was it stated that it's not?

2:
- Hyogoro says he wants to teach Luffy Ryou.
- He doesn't know what haki is (before he doesn't know Ryou is haki)
- He goes on to explain ryou, and his explanation suddenly starts with explaining "BOAT"

Why the hell would you thing they're unrelated? Only because it suits preconceived headcannons that you had formed. It's cool that you put so much effort into what BOAT could have been, but now it's painfully clear that BOAT is just part of how they understand Ryou in Wano, so it's time to move on.

And now I'll be moving this into its proper thread.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Where was it stated that BOAT is Haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Actually, if you read the entire page... Hyogoro did name it... what he described is given to MIGHTY BLADE users.

You know where else MIGHTY BLADE was spoken about? In Alabasta. The ability to cut and not cut is called Mighty Blade/BOAT.

In Arabasta, where Zoro used haki to cut Mr.1. Yes.

It falls into what you believe just as well as it falls into what I believe. You'd already know that if you tried to understand others' points.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

In Arabasta, where Zoro used haki to cut Mr.1. Yes.

Where was it stated that Haki was used? lol

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

1: Where was it stated that it's not?

It's called common sense.

He described something that has never been attributed to Haki, therefore, to claim it's haki is border-line wishful thinking, lol.

 

[Nie Li]

Where was it stated that Haki was used? lol

At the time? Nowhere.

I believe it wasn't mentioned either when Garp punched Luffy and he felt it despite being rubber in Water 7.

What Zoro did there was a mystery, which is why theories on BOAT like yours started growing, but now that we know about how they understand haki in Wano and about where Zoro learnt all of this, it's now made very obvious by Hyogoro's explanation that what Zoro used was Haki.

Oda isn't being obscure about these powers, he's being very clear about them, you're just refusing to believe this is even a posibility (despite it being the common sense explanation) because you're somehow fixated on your theory.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Hyogoro says he wants to teach Luffy Ryou.

He never said that, again, you're making that up, lol.

He said he wanted to teach Luffy the technique.

Ryou is simply Armament Haki.

Luffy already knows how to use Armament Haki/Ryou before Wano.

Only thing he doesn't know is how to make it do as he pleases which is where BOAT comes into the conversation, lol.

 

[Nie Li]

It's called common sense.

He described something that has never been attributed to Haki, therefore, to claim it's haki is border-line wishful thinking, lol.

What you call common sense seems like nonsense to me.

They just added a philosophical mantra about having blades that cannot cut paper but can cut steel "according to their wills" to explain what haki is. Just like they call Devil Fruits "sorcery".

It's just a wano thing, but it's still haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

He never said that, again, you're making that up, lol.

He said he wanted to teach Luffy the technique.

Ryou is simply Armament Haki.

Luffy already knows how to use Armament Haki/Ryou before Wano.

Only thing he doesn't know is how to make it do as he pleases which is where BOAT comes into the conversation, lol.

No, he could already use haki at his will so he already had control over armament haki. He now learnt advanced armament haki, but that's not a different concept. He just learnt an upgraded way to use it.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

At the time? Nowhere.

I believe it wasn't mentioned either when Garp punched Luffy and he felt it despite being rubber in Water 7.

See, exactly, you're pretty misinformed.

People don't understand Haki isn't needed to hurt Luffy.

Luffy's hurt by any attack as long as it's powerful, lol.

What, you think these kids are Haki users? Common now.

You think Luffy's saying he's surprised he survived? he's more or less saying he shouldn't because he came from far away and hit the ground. The ground is a Haki user huh?

Guess Franky was a Haki user too since he hurt Luffy.

If you knew better, you'd know it only takes a strong attack to hurt Luffy. Only thing Haki does is make attacks stronger, so it's more likely to hurt Haki. Not that Luffy can only be hurt with Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

They just added a philosophical mantra about having blades that cannot cut paper but can cut steel "according to their wills" to explain what haki is.

Lol.

You're making up stuff.

Where did they say the ability to cut and not cut is Haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

Zoro learnt how to use MIGHTY BLADE in Alabasta.

Hyogoro is known as a MIGHTY BLADE.

Zoro is called a MIGHTY BLADE in Thriller Bark because he's more or less mastered the technique.

Library of Ohara and SANDMAN who translate Japanese point out that Zoro was a GOKEN/MIGHTY BLADE by Thriller Bark.

So... why is Zoro learning Haki from Mihawk if MIGHTYBLADE/GOKEN is Haki?

Lol, I'm baffled. So according to you, Zoro didn't need a time-skip since he was already a GOKEN/MIGHTY BLADE which you claim to be the ability to use Haki, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

What's next, Coby was a Haki user pre-skip and before Luffy? just because he hurt him?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

Even Ohara's library understands this... lol.

If you look at what Hyo is actually saying... he's saying he is a GOKEN (MIGHTY BLADE) in the past.

What he's actually saying is he doesn't know if he can teach Luffy how to become a GOKEN because that's what is needed to control Haki in the advanced manner.

What Hyo is saying is if he can teach Luffy a technique for Swordsmen... he's not trying to teach Luffy Haki... lol. Rayleigh already did that... lol.

Which surprisingly should make sense since teaching a non-Swordsman Swordman principles shouldn't really be easy and why he's not sure if he can teach Luffy...

It's really not as complex as you're making it to be if you actually read the VIZ, SANDMAN and what Artur have said.

 

[XXGenesis]

See, exactly, you're pretty misinformed.

People don't understand Haki isn't needed to hurt Luffy.

Luffy's hurt by any attack as long as it's powerful, lol.

What, you think these kids are Haki users? Common now.

You think Luffy's saying he's surprised he survived? he's more or less saying he shouldn't because he came from far away and hit the ground. The ground is a Haki user huh?

Guess Franky was a Haki user too since he hurt Luffy.

If you knew better, you'd know it only takes a strong attack to hurt Luffy. Only thing Haki does is make attacks stronger, so it's more likely to hurt Haki. Not that Luffy can only be hurt with Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Lol.

You're making up stuff.

Where did they say the ability to cut and not cut is Haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

Zoro learnt how to use MIGHTY BLADE in Alabasta.

Hyogoro is known as a MIGHTY BLADE.

Zoro is called a MIGHTY BLADE in Thriller Bark because he's more or less mastered the technique.

Library of Ohara and SANDMAN who translate Japanese point out that Zoro was a GOKEN/MIGHTY BLADE by Thriller Bark.

So... why is Zoro learning Haki from Mihawk if MIGHTYBLADE/GOKEN is Haki?

Lol, I'm baffled. So according to you, Zoro didn't need a time-skip since he was already a GOKEN/MIGHTY BLADE which you claim to be the ability to use Haki, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

What's next, Coby was a Haki user pre-skip and before Luffy? just because he hurt him?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020 ---

Even Ohara's library understands this... lol.

If you look at what Hyo is actually saying... he's saying he is a GOKEN (MIGHTY BLADE) in the past.

What he's actually saying is he doesn't know if he can teach Luffy how to become a GOKEN because that's what is needed to control Haki in the advanced manner.

What Hyo is saying is if he can teach Luffy a technique for Swordsmen... he's not trying to teach Luffy Haki... lol. Rayleigh already did that... lol.

Which surprisingly should make sense since teaching a non-Swordsman Swordman principles shouldn't really be easy and why he's not sure if he can teach Luffy...

It's really not as complex as you're making it to be if you actually read the VIZ, SANDMAN and what Artur have said.

I’m disappointed. What the hell are you talking about writing essays upon essays about.

Goken is the strong blade/Strong Sword Swordsman fighting style. They specialize in power attacks...Zoro, Ryuma, Kawamatsu & Hyogoro.

Juken is the Gentle/Soft Sword swordsmanship that applies finesse & speed. Like Tigashi, Brook & Kaku.

Your kanji evidence isn’t supported by translated definition. Every phrase & meaning cannot be translated exactly from Japense to English, some shit gets lost in translation.

Your connections are conjecture because there are more believable & concrete explanations. Which satisfy the masses of making sense of what there reading except you & a few others I guess.

Luffy’s DF durability isn’t related to BOAT being a Haki philosophy of RYU Flowing Aura. That’s a whole separate argument solely centered around Luffy & his fights.

Swordsman not cutting something because they just want don’t to, never much made sense all in all...Flowing Aura makes hell of sense of how they can achieve said feat

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I’m disappointed. What the hell are you talking about writing essays upon essays about.

Well, I'm not trying to please anyone, just stating facts.

Goken is the strong blade/Strong Sword Swordsman fighting style. They specialize in power attacks...Zoro, Ryuma, Kawamatsu & Hyogoro.

Okay, so define Power Attacks?

Juken is the Gentle/Soft Sword swordsmanship that applies finesse & speed. Like Tigashi, Brook & Kaku.

Where has this been mentioned in the Manga?

Luffy’s DF durability isn’t related to BOAT

Where did I say Luffy's durability is BOAT? Show please.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

Your kanji evidence isn’t supported by translated definition. Every phrase & meaning cannot be translated exactly from Japense to English, some shit gets lost in translation.

So, apparently, you understand Japanese better than Artur of the Ohara Library and Sandman? Sandman is pretty much a legend in this community from Japan that's been translating a lot of content to us non-Japanese speaking folk, yet they're wrong?

 

[Nie Li]

And I'm the misinformed one?

It was a big deal that Luffy took damage from Garp punching him, and it was not even a serious or devastating punch, it was just a punch that later was understood to have been coated in haki.

Yes, strong attacks can "hurt" Luffy, as in he feels pain, but you used very silly example there to support your point. Luffy took no damage from Franky's punch. That's the difference. If Franky had used haki, he would have damaged Luffy in that scene.

That is the reason many used to theorize a haki-coated blade could perhaps damage Buggy (before Marineford took place, and before we saw that it works on logias), because haki does allow to hurt Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2020 ---

What Hyo is saying is if he can teach Luffy a technique for Swordsmen... he's not trying to teach Luffy Haki... lol. Rayleigh already did that... lol.

Which surprisingly should make sense since teaching a non-Swordsman Swordman principles shouldn't really be easy and why he's not sure if he can teach Luffy...

It's really not as complex as you're making it to be if you actually read the VIZ, SANDMAN and what Artur have said.

Yes, he was trying to teach him haki, because during that scene he didn't know haki was ryou. However, normal CoA to Wano samurai is just incomplete haki, so what he was actually teaching him was advanced haki, which is what he learnt to use. Go figure.

It is not complex at all, and I don't know why you're saying I'm somehow making it complex, since you're making it complicated by going on about BOAT being whatever you've theorized it to be (and, worse of all, treating said theories as irrefutable facts).

How is it complex that Wano samurai, as a closed country with no contact with the outer world, developed a different understanding to haki? Not just the name, but both how they explain it and what they consider the norm for their samurais (normal as "incomplete" and advanced as "normal"), And of course, since their warriors are all samurai, they directly relate haki to swordsmanship.

See? I explained it in a single paragraph while you're copypasting the same "graphics" again and again as if I couldn't read them the first time.

As I said before, your theory is interesting but unconvincing, and it is still based on a lot of assumptions that I already pointed out. And one of the reasons why it won't be convincing is that for that theory to sustain itself, Hyogoro needs to have been talking about two separate things, but everything in that conversation just screams that he was just explaining "Ryou" to Luffy, and not anything unrelated.

It's cool that you follow some legendary translators or whatever, and of course what they say is important, but there's something you should understand here.

Even if this manga was actually a western comic that was originally published in English, we would still be having this discussion. Because you'd still be doing what to me seems like pushing a personal interpretation of some concepts from the story, while I'd still insist in its biggest flaw being how wrong I believe you have interpreted Hyogoro's conversation.

A translator's job and insight is appreciated, but that Hyogoro conversation being the pillar for this theory makes it a huge misconception in my eyes, and copypasting the same thing for the eleventh time won't change that, and it won't make you be on the right. We could discuss it further, but I believe that if you had other points you'd have brought them up.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

And I'm the misinformed one?

It was a big deal that Luffy took damage from Garp punching him, and it was not even a serious or devastating punch, it was just a punch that later was understood to have been coated in haki.

You're clearly misinformed.

Luffy takes damage from any attack as long as it's strong.

Luffy's making those expressions because he's not hurt? That's pretty absurd logic.

Don't think people flinch after being punched if it didn't have any sort of impact.

Yes, he was trying to teach him haki, because during that scene he didn't know haki was ryou. However, normal CoA to Wano samurai is just incomplete haki, so what he was actually teaching him was advanced haki, which is what he learnt to use. Go figure.

Nope, wrong bud.

He wasn't trying to teach him Haki, lol.

You're sadly mistaken, lol.

If you read carefully which you're unfortunately not doing...

1. Luffy said he's seen it done before (referring to Rayleigh's Advanced haki)... if you also read carefully, he said it's the SAME COLOUR of ARMAMENT. Not a different Armament, lol.
2. Hyogoro says this thing Luffy is talking about must be the thing they call Ryou in Wano. The invisible power that stems from the body. So, the idea Hyogoro is teach Luffy Haki is laughable... he already knows it... as Luffy said, it's not a different Armament Haki that Rayleigh used because it's the same as his own Haki.
3. Finally, Hyogoro goes to the aspect he needs to teach Luffy which is the ability to convey your will into a weapon (primarily Swords, but can also be applied to Haki). That's the ability of the MIGHTY BLADE/GOKEN known as BOAT. Thus, Hyogoro saying he's not sure he can teach him a Swordsmanship technique.

You're ironically the one who is misinformed, lol.

since you're making it complicated by going on about BOAT being whatever you've theorized it to be

Nope, wrong again bud.

I haven't theorised it to be anything other than what Zoro and Hyogoro defined it as.

The ability to make a weapon understand one's will, lol.

Not like I made it up, it's stated in the manga bud.

As I said before, your theory is interesting but unconvincing, and it is still based on a lot of assumptions that I already pointed out.

What assumption? that BOAT is the ability to convey wills into a weapon as Zoro and Hyogoro said? How is paraphrasing Hyogoro and Zoro's definition... an assumption? You're being illogical bud, lol.

A translator's job and insight is appreciated

They're not making insights, they're translating, lol.

GOKEN is a term that's been used.

How is Zoro a Haki user when Brook called Zoro and Ryuma GOKEN/MIGHT BLADES when Brook himself didn't know what Haki was until the time-skip? lol?

Your absurd claim is that Zoro was essentially using Haki before he got trained by Mihawk, lol. Yet, I'm the one with flawed logic? That's a riot.