Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The streaks in that image with oden are the ones seen most times when conqueror haki users release it. The exact same pattern is seen when luffy and chinjao clashed or when luffy and doflamingo clashed. The pattern though is different when people who can weaponize conqueror haki clash. When kaido, roger and WB use it the haki seemingly leaks out their weapons. In luffy's case against kaido we see a similar effect to roger and WB coming from his fist. We never really see this black pattern "leaking" out of oden's blades.

I agree in that weaponizing king's haki is not the end all of fighting. BUT it is a pretty huge advantage to lord over others. The mechanics are still unknown to us but by all appearances cladding yourself in conqueror haki is basically an extra layer on top of your armor haki... One that is not available to 99.9% of fighters in the series. It's also possibly the reason why kaido and big mom seemed so invulnerable, specially considering how big mom became vulnerable when her will faltered....

Okay so maybe they all have to look like this...

If there's no trail like this from the weapon itself, then it's not King's Haki. That seems to make sense because Luffy's attacks look exactly like this which Kaido's resembles too.

At least based on the evidence, Oden wasn't able to weaponize King's Haki.

So, so far we have:

1. Whitebeard
2. Roger
3. Kaido
4. Luffy

That we've seen at least.

 

[Fox666]

If I'm not mistaken, that lightning effect is also present here:

This effect is an odd choice of the author, since it's not that easy to tell apart depending of the situation.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

@Fox666

Just read the VIZ and Luffy said it was the last attack "Ragnarok" that was infused with King's Haki.

If that's the case, then Ragnarok might be the only attack infused with King's Haki that Kaido has used.

Assuming this is what we should be focusing on, then not all of Kaido's attacks (including Thunder Bagua) have been King's Haki infused.

So, the lightening effects that are scattered are not King's Haki. Those scattered thunder effects may just be Advanced Haki.

The lightening effect that has a trail directly from the weapon is King's Haki.

I'll have to look at panels to see if there's a consistency there.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 11, 2021 ---

But, imho, lack of lightning is also not a definitive proof that he didn't use it, that is all.

That's like me saying "Black Haki" is not definitive proof of Armament Haki being used.

By your logic, Luffy's fists are black, but I can say imo, his fists being black is not proof he used Armament Haki.

Would that make sense?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy is officially the only character in the verse that knows all forms of ADVANCED haki

 

[kkck]

Wayyyyy back in the day oda revealed through SBS iirc the type of haki for which luffy, zoro and sanji had an affinity. Luffy for conqueror's haki, zoro for armor haki... and sanji has a clutch suit to make up for his overall ineptitude at haki. Anyways, the last chapter would have finally given some significance to luffy having this affinity. It's an affinity to a rare power that even those who technically possess it can't fully use. Luffy has learned pretty much all the advanced haki techniques around so far so at the very least it makes sense that he would pick up how to clad his attacks in conqueror haki this fast. At least more sense than his other haki types. He picked up foresight during his fight with katakuri, he then learned internal damage withing 2 weeks iirc... And he finally picked up the final skill he needed (though we can't rule out there being more haki skills in the future).

I gotta wonder if perhaps the voice of all things is related to conqueror haki. Just as you can clad your body in conqueror haki to deal more damage and presumably to defend yourself perhaps you can similarly use conqueror haki to listen to everything that has a voice.

 

[King Moe]

Luffy is officially the only character in the verse that knows all forms of ADVANCED haki

On-screen? Maybe, we have to see more on Yonkos on what they can do, but I can bet Roger and Whitebeard knew all forms to that level and PK tiers like maybe Garp and Shiki perhaps.

 

[XXGenesis]

Luffy is officially the only character in the verse that knows all forms of ADVANCED haki

This kind of bugs me tho.

The reasoning why every top 15 character doesn’t know the advanced forms of Haki either....FS...Ryo...

Why is it that BM & Kaido don’t know Advanced CoA??? How to flow their Haki into shields of armour.......Or FS either for that matter when Weaker character do...Coby & Katakuri. They’ve been around to long to not have info or knowledge of it....

But they both know how to Use CoC, something even rarer.

 

[Geez]

I thought i'd join in and toss my two cents about the latest chapter.


Kaidou's Haki
Rayleigh about CoC : "This is the ability to overpower the opponent's will [...] It is the user's very spirit manifest", ch. 597.

We know that a wavering resolve or a broken spirit means you're weak to attacks : like Bigmom scratching her knees during the wedding ceremony because she's reliving her trauma. That means that you can exploit those psyche's weaknesses to effectively hurt CoC users.

But Kaido doesn't realize that his will has been weakened by Oden.
That's why he gets those Oden flashbacks when facing for the first time the scabbards and is ultimately cut. He even seems lost and wonders if they have the same Haki. But it's deeper than that. His spirit was scarred by Oden and his resolve is wavering, they don't have to be CoC users to hurt him at this point.
Ironically this is kinda fitting for a Kaidou that whishes to break the spirits of everyone he encounters, unsecure little him


Zoro's Haki
Rayleigh on CoC : "It is the user's very spirit manifest. It can only be strengthened by the individual's personal growth" and it has to be awakened; ch. 597

Conqueror's Haki/will is forged through sacrifice and pain and it's not born by ambition alone, it's directly linked to a strong belief in something that makes you who you are : just like the permanent theme in One Piece about believing in a dream and live by it.

Zoro's will is to "protect luffy's dream" (ch. 485 - Kuma's encounter, Zoro accepts to die for his captain), confirmed by Mihawk (chap. 597 - Mihawk To Zoro "it would seem that you have found a greater cause than your own ambition") That's why Zoro's haki/will is the highest when Luffy is close to death.

In recent chapters, he saved twice his captain and cut Kaidou each time in the process, leaving in awe Bigmom and Killer (ch. 1003 and 1010). So I assume that Asura, despite being a cool technique, is not a manifestation of CoC.

His CoC may have awakened already but is not yet mature enough since he didn't have as much personal growth as Luffy.

• It could explain why his CoC did not manifest like Luffy's but still momentarily overpowered Kaidou's defense with the help of Enma.
• It kinda explains his encounter with Monet on Punk Hazard
• Finally, I believe it has been hinted by Oda on ch. 997 through this gag.

View media item 25044

 

[kkck]

This kind of bugs me tho.

The reasoning why every top 15 character doesn’t know the advanced forms of Haki either....FS...Ryo...

Why is it that BM & Kaido don’t know Advanced CoA??? How to flow their Haki into shields of armour.......Or FS either for that matter when Weaker character do...Coby & Katakuri. They’ve been around to long to not have info or knowledge of it....

But they both know how to Use CoC, something even rarer.

I think it's too early to tell if the yonko don't know all forms of advanced haki. At an absolute bare minimum it seems likely that both big mom and kaido know how to project their haki since they are able to clad their haki into their weapons. So the only thing up in the air is internal damage. Observation wise the question is whether they are familiar with foresight... But this is probably the most difficult ability to spot in a fight without being specifically told it's a thing.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 12, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 12, 2021 ---

I thought i'd join in and toss my two cents about the latest chapter.


Kaidou's Haki
Rayleigh about CoC : "This is the ability to overpower the opponent's will [...] It is the user's very spirit manifest", ch. 597.

We know that a wavering resolve or a broken spirit means you're weak to attacks : like Bigmom scratching her knees during the wedding ceremony because she's reliving her trauma. That means that you can exploit those psyche's weaknesses to effectively hurt CoC users.

But Kaido doesn't realize that his will has been weakened by Oden.
That's why he gets those Oden flashbacks when facing for the first time the scabbards and is ultimately cut. He even seems lost and wonders if they have the same Haki. But it's deeper than that. His spirit was scarred by Oden and his resolve is wavering, they don't have to be CoC users to hurt him at this point.
Ironically this is kinda fitting for a Kaidou that whishes to break the spirits of everyone he encounters, unsecure little him


Zoro's Haki
Rayleigh on CoC : "It is the user's very spirit manifest. It can only be strengthened by the individual's personal growth" and it has to be awakened; ch. 597

Conqueror's Haki/will is forged through sacrifice and pain and it's not born by ambition alone, it's directly linked to a strong belief in something that makes you who you are : just like the permanent theme in One Piece about believing in a dream and live by it.

Zoro's will is to "protect luffy's dream" (ch. 485 - Kuma's encounter, Zoro accepts to die for his captain), confirmed by Mihawk (chap. 597 - Mihawk To Zoro "it would seem that you have found a greater cause than your own ambition") That's why Zoro's haki/will is the highest when Luffy is close to death.

In recent chapters, he saved twice his captain and cut Kaidou each time in the process, leaving in awe Bigmom and Killer (ch. 1003 and 1010). So I assume that Asura, despite being a cool technique, is not a manifestation of CoC.

His CoC may have awakened already but is not yet mature enough since he didn't have as much personal growth as Luffy.

• It could explain why his CoC did not manifest like Luffy's but still momentarily overpowered Kaidou's defense with the help of Enma.
• It kinda explains his encounter with Monet on Punk Hazard
• Finally, I believe it has been hinted by Oda on ch. 997 through this gag.

View media item 25044

That's a thought, the trauma of kaido winning his fight against oden like that could actually affect his performance in the long term... It's hard to imagine this being a major drawback for kaido though.

Maybe the reason zoro hasn't shown CoC yet is that he simply doesn't have an affinity for it. Oda made the point that luffy had an affinity for conqueror haki while zoro had an affinity for armor haki. It's at least plausible that people without an affinity for conqueror haki actually struggle awakening it. It'd also make sense with luffy having merely the basics of haki down by the time the timeskip started (armor and hardening along with basic observation) while zoro had learned up to haki projection (for cladding his swords in haki). Basically zoro had more advanced haki than luffy for a good portion of the manga since the timeskip. But now that zoro's haki has progressed and is facing a monstrous enemy it's a good moment for it to awake. There is also the question of what asura is. We can't rule out it being related to zoro's haki.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

One thing, it's never been stated Haki had anything to do with WIllpower.

If Haki was Willpower, then Luffy would never run out of Haki for 10 minutes.

Willpower is a mindset to do something.

Haki is finite, it's no different to stamina. There's no way to limit the mindset to do something.

If Haki were willpower, he'd have infinite Haki.

Luffy couldn't even use Haki with Kairoseki on, and we got told his will was strong nonetheless. Haki and Willpower are not really related.

 

[Geez]

That's a thought, the trauma of kaido winning his fight against oden like that could actually affect his performance in the long term... It's hard to imagine this being a major drawback for kaido though.

Well, it's only a drawback when he's faced with something unique that triggers the trauma and even then, it doesn't mean it could bring him down. It is so out of the ordinary that even Kaidou didn't understand what was happening at the time.

Basically zoro had more advanced haki than luffy for a good portion of the manga since the timeskip. But now that zoro's haki has progressed and is facing a monstrous enemy it's a good moment for it to awake. There is also the question of what asura is. We can't rule out it being related to zoro's haki.

True, using the breath of all things was huge in retrospective.
Yeah, maybe we can't really rule out Asura, I think you're right. Especially since it was first introduced during Enies Lobby and the discovery of all CP9's "haki" related abilities.

One thing, it's never been stated Haki had anything to do with WIllpower.
If Haki was Willpower, then Luffy would never run out of Haki for 10 minutes.
Willpower is a mindset to do something.
Haki is finite, it's no different to stamina. There's no way to limit the mindset to do something.
If Haki were willpower, he'd have infinite Haki.
Luffy couldn't even use Haki with Kairoseki on, and we got told his will was strong nonetheless. Haki and Willpower are not really related.

The only solid explanations we had about Haki comes from Rayleigh, that's why I will quote him again :
Rayleigh on haki : "'The act of not doubting'. That is power!", "it's the embodiment of the spirit of the user !" (ch.597)

I'm not saying that haki is infinite or it's just plainly one's willpower but it is related.
Haki is spiritual energy and stamina is physical energy, the first is released by the spirit and the second by the body.
There must be a yin/yang connection between the two : "Mens sana in corpore sano".

If you keep on making physical efforts, your stamina will deplete momentarily but it will grow stronger on the long term.
But if you break your body or don't attend to it, your stamina will atrophy, shrink if you will. Strong body = strong stamina.

I believe Haki works the same way with the spirit.
When fighting with haki, you're also hurting the spiritual body of your enemy, that's why you can grasp logia users and it explains why the wavering spirit of a CoC user can be hurt. Kaidou was doubting. Weak spirit = weak haki.

Since Hyougoro could use haki even in his poor physical state, maybe you don't need a great deal of stamina to use haki when you master it like him. But Luffy is a brute, like he demonstrated numerous times, so I guess he was using too much stamina until now to properly fight with haki. That's a partial reason why he couldn't use it when handcuffed with kairouseki while running around with his monstrous stamina of his.

The real reason is that it was 100% seastone handcuffs, that means there's more to it than stated until now.
We were told that Kairouseki, just like sea water, depletes the stamina of DF users, it robs them of their energy and nullify their power.
My guess is that special wavelength is also preventing them to use their haki.

=> They can't move their body nor they can manifest their spirit but that doesn't mean they lost them, they just can't use the two energies emanating from them.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Rayleigh on haki : "'The act of not doubting'. That is power!", "it's the embodiment of the spirit of the user !" (ch.597)

You're missing context.

Rayleigh's saying people never discover Haki or even reach their potential. He's simply telling not doubting his ability to learn it will allow him to learn it. Pretty much logic that applies in real life, if you don't believe you can learn something, you won't learn it.

Doubting or not is not Haki. The embodiment of the spirit thing, not sure where you got that from.

If not doubting was all it took to use Haki, no one would need to train it. They'd simply be able to use it. A kid can doubt or believe in themselves, the conscious choice to doubt or not doubt is nothing special.

I'm not saying that haki is infinite or it's just plainly one's willpower but it is related.
Haki is spiritual energy and stamina is physical energy, the first is released by the spirit and the second by the body.
There must be a yin/yang connection between the two : "Mens sana in corpore sano".

You're complicating things unnecessarily.

Haki's simply a power that one can use, and if used excessively, it depletes. Has nothing to do with will or not.

Luffy doubted himself against Katakuri and was still able to use Haki, so doubting has nothing to do with Haki or the strength.

When fighting with haki, you're also hurting the spiritual body of your enemy, that's why you can grasp logia users and it explains why the wavering spirit of a CoC user can be hurt. Kaidou was doubting. Weak spirit = weak haki.

Makes no sense to me and there's no evidence for anything.

All Haki does is make attacks stronger to hurt someone's body.

There's no where in the series is it stated or implied that Haki weakens other people's Haki.

Entire point of Haki is to make the physical body or objects stronger.

You're complicating things unnecessarily and more so, without even hint of said speculation.

If all it took was simply "not doubting" to not be hurt, everyone would be invincible.

Since Hyougoro could use haki even in his poor physical state, maybe you don't need a great deal of stamina to use haki when you master it like him.

Haki has nothing to do with stamina, it is completely unrelated.

You can use Haki whether or not you're physically tired.

You can even have stamina and have no Haki. Haki and Stamina are unrelated to the other. Can deplete your Haki and you can deplete your stamina without the other being affected.

Has nothing to do with mastery.

1. Haki's got nothing to do with will power or stamina.
2. Can use haki even when in doubt, it can be used anytime as long as it's a power one can control.
3. It's simply a power that one uses and can deplete.
4. Will cannot deplete. So, it's got nothing to do with will.

It's pretty simple.

 

[Geez]

I didn't want to suffer your posts but i'll play along with your methods.

You're missing context.
Rayleigh's saying people never discover Haki or even reach their potential. He's simply telling not doubting his ability to learn it will allow him to learn it. Pretty much logic that applies in real life, if you don't believe you can learn something, you won't learn it.
Doubting or not is not Haki.

Well, if you want the real context : Rayleigh "Haki is a power [...] To never doubt... That is a power !" Your explanation is missing this part, resulting in a much less convincing conclusion.

The embodiment of the spirit thing, not sure where you got that from. [...] Luffy doubted himself against Katakuri and was still able to use Haki, so doubting has nothing to do with Haki or the strength.

Same chapter (see below), it references to CoC and not simply haki.
That's why your example doesn't apply in this case because you're missing context.
For starters, in your example Luffy wasn't doubting like Kaidou was. Kaidou has been scarred by Oden, that's a trauma. Kaidou seems to be really hurt only by CoC attacks except when he's faced by the red scabbards and having those Oden flashbacks. Just like Bigmom scratching her knees when reliving her trauma. If CoC is the embodiment of the spirit, then a broken spirit means a broken CoC.

You're complicating things unnecessarily. Haki's simply a power that one can use, and if used excessively, it depletes. Has nothing to do with will or not.

Well, it is a power that one can use and it can deplete, I pretty much said the same thing, thus I agree. I just pointed out where this power comes from : Physical body => Physical energy (Stamina) / Spiritual body => Spiritual energy (Haki), pretty simple actually.
Haki was translated numerous times by ambition/will. So how come it has nothing to do with will ?! Are you contradicting just for the sake of it ?

Makes no sense to me and there's no evidence for anything.
All Haki does is make attacks stronger to hurt someone's body.
There's no where in the series is it stated or implied that Haki weakens other people's Haki.
Entire point of Haki is to make the physical body or objects stronger.
You're complicating things unnecessarily and more so, without even hint of said speculation.

That's wrong at so many levels.
You're missing the most important thing about haki, as CoA.
If it would only make the body stronger, how come it could make contact with fluid bodies like logias ? It wouldn't affect fire, or event light ! If this was this simple, Diamond Jozu wouldn't need to use CoA at all, but he does so, especially against logia users.
Just like the Breath of all things, CoA grants the user the ability to hit/cut/hurt/grasp the spiritual body of anything. That's why it works even on logia users, not because it's simply stronger.

Haki has nothing to do with stamina, it is completely unrelated. You can use Haki whether or not you're physically tired.
You can even have stamina and have no Haki. Haki and Stamina are unrelated to the other. Can deplete your Haki and you can deplete your stamina without the other being affected.

I was just pointing out that kairouseki may also deplete haki, just as we know it does to stamina. Explaining why Luffy couldn't use it all whereas his monstrous stamina was much less affected. Luffy's stamina > Luffy's haki, if you will.

As for Hyougoro, having a real poor stamina and a broken spirit, he still managed to manifest Ryou so yeah, maybe it's completely unrelated... or the mastery of Ryou permits a better management of energy.

I know that depleting your stamina won't affect your haki and having stamina without haki is possible, but is "Using your haki is taxing on your stamina" really invalid ? I can't say i remember where it's stated actually, can you show me please ?

1. Haki's got nothing to do with will power or stamina.
2. Can use haki even when in doubt, it can be used anytime as long as it's a power one can control.
3. It's simply a power that one uses and can deplete.
4. Will cannot deplete. So, it's got nothing to do with will.

1. Haki comes from will, it's been widely translated like that actually
2. Doubting affects CoC because it's the embodiment of spirit, that's why Kaidou is adamant on breaking spirits
3. Agreed, said the same thing.
4. Will cannot deplete, but Haki does. As it comes from your spirit and is just a different form of energy

Just to clarify something, you didn't use a lot of condescending stuff on me like the too much seen "bud, lol". But I assure you that reading the forum weekly as I do, I certainly know that if I choose to post something, you will eventually hit me with a wall of a post with images and arrows and condescending stuff that twist words just to enlighten your point of view.

I'm sorry if that seems out of the blue but that's the major reason why I don't post.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well, if you want the real context : Rayleigh "Haki is a power [...] To never doubt... That is a power !"

This is incorrect, we know it's not that because if not doubting was what powered Haki, it would be infinite.

Entire context is simply believe in yourself to learn to learn Haki which usually takes years.

Same chapter (see below), it references to CoC and not simply haki.

CoC is Haki.

Haki was translated numerous times by ambition/will. So how come it has nothing to do with will ?! Are you contradicting just for the sake of it ?

It's not.

What panel are you reading that it calls Haki will? There's no such panel. but bring it up if you can.

I was just pointing out that kairouseki may also deplete haki, just as we know it does to stamina. Explaining why Luffy couldn't use it all whereas his monstrous stamina was much less affected. Luffy's stamina > Luffy's haki, if you will.

No, has nothing to do with stamina > will.

Simply Kairoseki stops one from using Haki.

In fact, it said his ability to move with Kairoseki was pure will power.

His willpower is off the charts.

Even with Kairoseki which weakens one's stamina, he moves like it's not affecting him. It's affecting him, he's just strong-willed.

Haki? He can't use. Has nothing to do with Willpower.

but is "Using your haki is taxing on your stamina" really invalid ? I can't say i remember where it's stated actually, can you show me please ?

It is because Luffy depleted is Haki and is still running despite it.

The only thing that tires Luffy out isn't Haki, it's Gear 4th. It's very taxing on his stamina because it uses a lot of energy.

Haki has no effect on stamina.

Haki comes from will, it's been widely translated like that actually

Nope, it doesn't and it's not been translated as such.

Doubting affects CoC because it's the embodiment of spirit, that's why Kaidou is adamant on breaking spirits

Nope, completely wrong. No evidence for such a thing. Nothing of this statement is remotely true or proven.

 

[XXGenesis]

@Hannibal Psyche
Lmao nah your too arrogant as of late...lmfao

The fact you haven’t realized or can’t even take some time to analyze the claim that Kaido’s whole stinct is having Ppl submit to him...A Gifter mentions their crew is full of captains that have given up and it’s best to submit......Kaido himself told Kidd & Luffy to give up n submit to him..As to why he locked them up in Udon didn’t kill them to break their spirits....WOW how did you miss all of this

Yes Rayleigh‘s words of the context of his words were...An unbreakable spirit is Strentgh/Power....Belief in one’s self is power.

Did BM’s Will not break when she’s under a Panic attack, & was damaged by simply dropping on the floor....Wasn’t that the only way injure the invincible BM?

Stop shooting down ppls theory’s and opinions because you believe you understand ODA so much better than everyone else.Unless somebody says Zoro is Yonkou lv, or Sanji is stronger than Zoro or whatever fanboyish crap the fanboys say

 

[Ellenate]

Kaido’s whole stinct is having Ppl submit to him...A Gifter mentions their crew is full of captains that have given up and it’s best to submit......Kaido himself told Kidd & Luffy to give up n submit to him..As to why he locked them up in Udon didn’t kill them to break their spirits....

Ehh...

The fact that he has an entire prison filled with people who refuse to submit to him kind of undermines that (...huge mark of shame). If having people submit to him is truly "his thing" he's highly incompetent... guess it'd explain the current battle.

 

[Fox666]

This is incorrect, we know it's not that because if not doubting was what powered Haki, it would be infinite.

I think you are making a confusion

The strength of Haki depends on willpower, but it still depletes with use

 

[XXGenesis]

Ehh...

The fact that he has an entire prison filled with people who refuse to submit to him kind of undermines that (...huge mark of shame). If having people submit to him is truly "his thing" he's highly incompetent... guess it'd explain the current battle.

The Samurai were broken until Ghost from the past appeared in Wano again. As to why they attacked Luffy in Udon on Kaido’s Crew’s orders.

You’ll die if you don’t submit. Luffy escaped Udon because he the main character duh. Everyone else was going to die...Hyogoro, & Kidd(udon) Rooftop* they refused to join so he went in for the kill

Either way Will Power is an underlying theme of Wano. Hence CoC dominating with one’s Will has come into play

I think you are making a confusion

The strength of Haki depends on willpower, but it still depletes with use

Yup just like when Law said. Luffy is using too much Haki in G4, as to why he runs out of Haki when the form ends

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The fact you haven’t realized or can’t even take some time to analyze the claim that Kaido’s whole stinct is having Ppl submit to him...A Gifter mentions their crew is full of captains that have given up and it’s best to submit......Kaido himself told Kidd & Luffy to give up n submit to him..As to why he locked them up in Udon didn’t kill them to break their spirits....WOW how did you miss all of this

I'm too arrogant and you're doing what you did again, you're extremely presumptuous without basis as of late.

You're saying things I never said.

For one, where did I say Kaido doesn't like people submitting to him? Find the quote.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 13, 2021 ---

Yes Rayleigh‘s words of the context of his words were...An unbreakable spirit is Strentgh/Power....Belief in one’s self is power.

Nope.

What Rayleigh was saying was in regards to training Haki, not about how Haki works.

He simply said believe in yourself to learn Haki because most people never learn it their whole lives. Luffy's about to lean something in 2 years that takes people decades to learn.

Breaking people's will has nothing to do with making them unable to use Haki, it's simply to make them his subordinates.

Where was it even stated breaking will makes one lose Haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021 ---

Did BM’s Will not break when she’s under a Panic attack, & was damaged by simply dropping on the floor....Wasn’t that the only way injure the invincible BM?

That's not breaking of will, lol.

She even used King's Haki when her "supposed will" broke? What?

Maybe you should think about that bud. Broken will, but uses King's haki? Lol. Apparently a weak will stops people from using Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021 ---

Stop shooting down ppls theory’s and opinions because you believe you understand ODA so much better than everyone else.Unless somebody says Zoro is Yonkou lv, or Sanji is stronger than Zoro or whatever fanboyish crap the fanboys say

Shooting down people's theories?

I'm simply stating what I believe.

Tell me, what's wrong with having an opinion?

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.

If you don't like it, stop bitching, and block me, it's really that simple.

I'm not going to cry about people having opinions I disagree with, people are entitled to have their opinions whether others agree or disagree.

If I agree with an opinion, I agree with it, and if I disagree, I disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 13, 2021 ---

I think you are making a confusion

The strength of Haki depends on willpower, but it still depletes with use

The strength of Haki has nothing to do with willpower.

If that were the case, Luffy would have the strongest Haki at the beginning of the series.

He's always been strong-willed.

There are even strong-willed people without Haki.

Crocodile is strong-willed, he spent 20 years on a plan that required patience and dedication. Anyone who can do something for 20+ years is strong-willed.

If Haki was will, it would be infinite.

Not saying this is a condescending manner, I'm simply saying it in the most logical manner I can.

Just look at this.

Willpower is the ability to do something even when it's hard to do it. It's a choice to do something.

When you're running a marathon race, you get tired and fatigued, but you continue to move despite the pain. That's willpower.

Someone who lacks willpower cannot do things the moment they get difficult, they give up.

Does Luffy ever give up? we all know the answer.

If Haki was willpower, Luffy would have it infinitely because he never gives up.

 

[Geez]

Quick word before the traditional HP style reply2reply,
You said before that CoA was a power to make everything stronger, which I replied that it was obviously more than that and explained why. I guess my explanation was satisfactory ?

Note that I appreciate your cordiality.

This is incorrect, we know it's not that because if not doubting was what powered Haki, it would be infinite. Entire context is simply believe in yourself to learn to learn Haki which usually takes years.

Maybe third time's the charm.
I said multiple times now that haki is indeed not infinite, I don't know how else I can write it differently for you to understand.
Even if Haki is produced by a strong will/spirit, it doesn't mean it's infinite : it has to be trained just like physical energy (stamina).

CoC is Haki.

Of course it is, my bad if my english is not clear enough.
"it references to CoC and not simply haki" as a whole. Ch. 597, Rayleigh was describing CoC in particular on the panel, i was just pointing that out. CoC not being Haki has never been a debate.

It's not. What panel are you reading that it calls Haki will? There's no such panel. but bring it up if you can.

One Piece Wiki : "The term "Haki" is a word that has multiple meanings when translated into English. It can mean "ambition", "will power", "drive", "spirit", "vigor" etc...

When the Haki concept appeared, a lot of people wondered how to translate it because Oda didn't really give a clear definition (at least at the time), even translators for scans were a bit confused. Below is just a quick google research to show you that it's not something I came up with on a whim : debates on AP Forum, Reddit, etc... ; Mentions on One Piece Wiki, Mentions of Will and Haki on Arthur's Library, and there's a lot more to find on youtube etc...

No, has nothing to do with stamina > will. Simply Kairoseki stops one from using Haki. In fact, it said his ability to move with Kairoseki was pure will power.
Panel from Udon
His willpower is off the charts.Even with Kairoseki which weakens one's stamina, he moves like it's not affecting him. It's affecting him, he's just strong-willed. Haki? He can't use. Has nothing to do with Willpower.

Again, my bad if I'm not clear enough but I assumed that this mathematic symbol " > " was international for "superior".
I wanted to say that knowing Luffy, we could assume that his stamina was far superior than his Haki, that's it. Nothing more.

Strong willpower produces Haki, so it's different.
Seastone depletes Haki.
Seastone can't affect willpower.
Strong will =/= Haki. (this symbol means "different")

I honestly believe that I'm clear enough though...

Geez said:
but is "Using your haki is taxing on your stamina" really invalid ? I can't say i remember where it's stated actually, can you show me please ?

Panel of Luffy running from Katakuri
It is because Luffy depleted is Haki and is still running despite it. The only thing that tires Luffy out isn't Haki, it's Gear 4th. It's very taxing on his stamina because it uses a lot of energy. Haki has no effect on stamina.

I asked you to show me where it was stated that using haki is not taxing stamina. Don't show me that Luffy can have stamina without haki, that's irrelevant.
Gear 4th is very taxing on the body, yes Rayleigh did mentioned it on a quick flashback panel during Luffy/Doflamingo's fight. Did you also notice that Gear 4th is the only form we have seen exclusively with haki ? How can you be sure that Haki has nothing to do with it ?! Show me please, just like you want me to show everything everytime.

Note that it wasn't even the point of the original post. I was exploring the idea but you made a huge deal about this.

Geez said:
Doubting affects CoC because it's the embodiment of spirit, that's why Kaidou is adamant on breaking spirits

Nope, completely wrong. No evidence for such a thing. Nothing of this statement is remotely true or proven.

You do know that Haki was a thing before the name was even coined and stated ? So what ? It didn't exist before ?!
Statements are validations, but in the meantime you have the right to deduce things on your own by decoding hints and enjoying the story. Because it's something you seem to forget, One piece is a story not a manual : Everything don't have to be told to enjoy it.

Two of One piece's recurrent themes are about believing in a dream and to never doubt in oneself.
It's certainly not a manga about not doubting your ability to learn a power, that's just ridiculous.