Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[kkck]

Luffy did basically teach himself how to cause internal damage with haki but that doesn't change the fact that internal damage haki is a progression of haki projection. The basic mechanic of internal damage haki is that you send haki from your body and into the enemy's (projection) and then have said haki swirl wildly... You can't do internal damage haki without projection. We even saw how luffy could damage things without touching them with internal damage haki.

I will also add that conqueror's haki working as an armor does not make it into actual armor haki. The series is pretty consistent in that both are distinct haki types with their own mechanics. CoC cladding is just another independent layer of armor that stacks on CoA (well, at least to me it'd be weird if they didn't stack).

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Luffy did basically teach himself how to cause internal damage with haki but that doesn't change the fact that internal damage haki is a progression of haki projection.

All forms of Armament are progressions of each other, doesn't mean you can just use the other just because that's the case.

Bellamy unlocked Hardening when he was only able of using Invisible Armament. However, just because Hardening is the progression doesn't mean they are activated similarly.

Some people will never be able to use Hardening, some people will never use Barrier Haki, some will never use Internal. They may all be progressions, but their activation is not as straight forward which explains why Hyogoro explicitly said he couldn't teach Luffy. He told him to recall it himself.

The basic mechanic of internal damage haki is that you send haki from your body and into the enemy's (projection) and then have said haki swirl wildly... You can't do internal damage haki without projection.

If Internal was as simple as you make it out to be, Hyogoro would also be capable of using it. Instead, he told Luffy to remember how despite the fact he already spoke about how moving Haki and such can be done.
Hyogoro saying he can't teach Luffy proves that just because he knew the mechanics of Barrier doesn't mean it works exactly the same way with Internal.

I will also add that conqueror's haki working as an armor does not make it into actual armor haki.

You just said it works as an armour.

Never said they were the same, just said they clearly work similarly which you've just said.

All we know for a fact is King's Haki is superior to Armament because Luffy himself said Armament can't go as deep as King's Haki essentially.

If Luffy said "I used a Swiss knife to stab, but it was too shallow", then proceeds to pull out a Katana and then proceeds to stab whomever. Wouldn't that suggest this Katana is doing what the Swiss knife does, but better?

Again, just like I didn't say King's Haki is Armament Haki, it's no different to not calling a Katana a mere knife. They do the same thing, but they're still different and there's a superiority relationship.

King's Haki is clearly its own power, but we can't deny it can do the same thing as Armament too.

A bicycle can do the same thing as a motorbike, doesn't mean just because they do the same thing, I'm calling a bicycle a motorbike as is the logic of some people.

The series is pretty consistent in that both are distinct haki types with their own mechanics.

Never disputed that nor am I saying otherwise. It doesn't change the fact King's Haki is clearly also doing things Armament does.

CoC cladding is just another independent layer of armor that stacks on CoA (well, at least to me it'd be weird if they didn't stack).

You've called it an armour yet again which is my point, it is similar. Either way, whether it stacks on top of Armament or its independent, we know it increases the power of attacks.

 

[kkck]

All forms of Armament are progressions of each other, doesn't mean you can just use the other just because that's the case.

Bellamy unlocked Hardening when he was only able of using Invisible Armament. However, just because Hardening is the progression doesn't mean they are activated similarly.

Some people will never be able to use Hardening, some people will never use Barrier Haki, some will never use Internal. They may all be progressions, but their activation is not as straight forward which explains why Hyogoro explicitly said he couldn't teach Luffy. He told him to recall it himself.



If Internal was as simple as you make it out to be, Hyogoro would also be capable of using it. Instead, he told Luffy to remember how despite the fact he already spoke about how moving Haki and such can be done.
Hyogoro saying he can't teach Luffy proves that just because he knew the mechanics of Barrier doesn't mean it works exactly the same way with Internal.



You just said it works as an armour.

Never said they were the same, just said they clearly work similarly which you've just said.

All we know for a fact is King's Haki is superior to Armament because Luffy himself said Armament can't go as deep as King's Haki essentially.

If Luffy said "I used a Swiss knife to stab, but it was too shallow", then proceeds to pull out a Katana and then proceeds to stab whomever. Wouldn't that suggest this Katana is doing what the Swiss knife does, but better?

Again, just like I didn't say King's Haki is Armament Haki, it's no different to not calling a Katana a mere knife. They do the same thing, but they're still different and there's a superiority relationship.

King's Haki is clearly its own power, but we can't deny it can do the same thing as Armament too.

A bicycle can do the same thing as a motorbike, doesn't mean just because they do the same thing, I'm calling a bicycle a motorbike as is the logic of some people.



Never disputed that nor am I saying otherwise. It doesn't change the fact King's Haki is clearly also doing things Armament does.



You've called it an armour yet again which is my point, it is similar. Either way, whether it stacks on top of Armament or its independent, we know it increases the power of attacks.

I think what other people here think you are saying is that CoC IS CoA. But sure, there is some overlap between the two function wise.

 

[minion]

you have a sword (CoC) and a shield. (CoA)

1. you go fight, you choose just bring your sword.
in fight you can attack with your sword and block attacks with your sword too.
2. you go fight and carry both sword and shield. you can attack and block attacks with your sword and shield.
3. you go fight just bring your shield. you still can attack and block attacks if you master ro use it both for attack and block attacks (like capt. america?)

Is your sword and shield usefull just for fight ?
Or course no, wirhin certain limit you can use it as you want if you know how to use it.
So you need learn and training for mastery to use both of them.
Is this can be analogies for CoA & CoC ?
Some people just have sword, some peolple just have shield, ome people have both, some peolle doesn't have both..
mastery by training and fight with othee people..

Sorry CoO doesn't including in this case..

may be its look very simple way about CoC and CoA ..

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I think what other people here think you are saying is that CoC IS CoA. But sure, there is some overlap between the two function wise.

Oh no, I made it pretty clear that KIng's Haki also has similar function to Armament. It's not even me saying it, the Manga more or less shows that. Anyone who though I was saying they're the same clearly didn't read what I said properly as I stated they're clearly distinct.
Nonetheless, we can't deny the fact there's overlap since we've seen King's Haki used to do damage.

I don't see what's so confusing for some people:

• Okay, we're told King's Haki is the power to overwhelm, that's a fact, no one denied that.

Now, we're shown King's Haki has physical augmentation. Some couldn't quite work out that must simply mean King's Haki overwhelms + augments attacks when mastered. I don't think it's that complex or controversial.

Do we need to be told something that we're explicitly shown? If we see Luffy knocked out, do we need Oda to tell us he's knocked out for it to be true? Similarly, if we're shown King's Haki has physical application, then it does which some people can't quite be honest about.

 

[Moss Green]

@Hannibal Psyche no disrespect but you really struggle with understanding the overall context of individual panels within a scene or chapter. You laser focus lock into one sentence in one panel and ignore the next sentence said by the character in the same panel. Or placing side by side two panels one of Luffy using BOTH ACoC and CoA and one of Hyogoro using ACoA and claiming they’re the same thing. So let’s get into it.

We know that Kaido used ACoC in his Ragnarok attack because that’s how Luffy figures out there’s something beyond CoA and it’s coating an attack in CoC. I get that your point is that this is where they overlap but that falls apart, and quite simply mind, if you just read the panels right before that one. Ie. other than the ones you quote repeatedly.

Kaido has never used an ACoC attack with black shading, not a single time on panel yet he’s the the one to introduce us to the concepts. We then see Luffy discover it and Big Mom confirm that the top-tiers have it. However, what we’re seeing from Big Mom and Luffy are them using ACoC and CoA or ACoA at the same time

Exhibit A: The ACoC attack on Luffy that knocks him out and gives him insight into Kaido’s attacks
No shading on Kaido’s hands or club

Exhibit B: Luffy realizing after being hit by the club that what Kaido’s doing is different than what he’s been doing

Exhibit C: Luffy using his first ever ACoC attack, zero shading even with a close-up

All his follow up attacks, including the one you repeatedly post, are shaded and the obvious answer is that they now have some CoA in them. Their activation is separate and can be used totally independent of each other. If you’re saying that these two colors of Haki overlap simply because they do damage logically you open yourself up to all kinds of fallacies. Punches and kicks do damage, you wouldn’t tell me your arms and legs are the same because you can move them would you? Of course not. A knife and a bullet can both pierce a person, does this mean they overlap? Of course not. What we are dealing with here are a knife (ACoA) and a gun (ACoC).

Don’t get so focused on the minutiae it really clogs up the forum and makes it hard to have actual discussions without resorting to mountains to quote tweets

Haki’s an interesting concept because no one knows exactly what it is, not even Oda himself. None of us are dealing in facts they’re inferences, opinions, etc. Even if you present them otherwise


On a separate note, and I see this everywhere, but “invisible Haki” isn’t a thing people have to know that by now right? All Haki is invisible, it’s an invisible armor around the body as detailed by our own Haki instructor Rayleigh. The shading was an editorial choice to allow us readers to see it. “Hardening” and “invisible Haki” are the exact same thing both pre-and post time skip. If Oda was to re-draw the first half every instance of CoA usage would be shaded like Rayleigh’s cuffs re-draw was

 

[Fox666]

Kaido's club is already black

Quite sure if it wasn't, it would turn black with Haki, just like Roger and Whitebeard blades

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Or placing side by side two panels one of Luffy using BOTH ACoC and CoA and one of Hyogoro using ACoA and claiming they’re the same thing. So let’s get into it.

Lol, let me stop you there, you're already wrong from the get-go.

I never said Advanced King's Haki and Advanced Armament are the same thing.

I said THEY CAN DO THE SAME THING.

f you’re saying that these two colors of Haki overlap simply because they do damage logically you open yourself up to all kinds of fallacies.

Punches and kicks do damage, you wouldn’t tell me your arms and legs are the same

Okay, so you're building STRAWMEN here.

First quote, you say overlap. 2 things can be different and do the same thing. Cars and Bicycles overlap in the sense they're forms of transport, doesn't mean they're the same thing. Not saying they are in the case of Armament and King's Haki.

Second quioe, you say I'm saying Punches and Kicks are the same because they do damage. NOPE - I'm saying in this context, arms and legs can do damage, in that sense, they overlap, not that they're the same thing.
My entire point is King's Haki and Armament which are obviously different things... both overlap in the fact both can actually do physical damage....

I think you're confused. I think you just read the person whom I was responding to, and just assumed things. I'd advice you read properly.

but “invisible Haki” isn’t a thing people have to know that by now right? All Haki is invisible, it’s an invisible armor around the body as detailed by our own Haki instructor Rayleigh. The shading was an editorial choice to allow us readers to see it. “Hardening” and “invisible Haki” are the exact same thing both pre-and post time skip. If Oda was to re-draw the first half every instance of CoA usage would be shaded like Rayleigh’s cuffs re-draw was

Yes, ALL Armament is INVISIBLE, that, you're right.

However, there's a distinction between SHADED (BLACK HAKI) and UNSHADED (BARE IN MIND BOTH ARE INVISIBLE), however, the Shaded is the superior version of the unshaded.

I don't think you've seen most of my posts were I actually tell people the Black Shaded Haki is actually Invisible.

Your entire response is you literally confused and conjuring strawmen statements I never made, or really, you just twisted what I said since you didn't get what I said properly.

There's a reason weak characters can only use unshaded (e.g. Tashigi) whereas the stronger people within the crew or the strongest all can use the shaded.

 

[HereNThere]

On a separate note, and I see this everywhere, but “invisible Haki” isn’t a thing people have to know that by now right? All Haki is invisible, it’s an invisible armor around the body as detailed by our own Haki instructor Rayleigh. The shading was an editorial choice to allow us readers to see it. “Hardening” and “invisible Haki” are the exact same thing both pre-and post time skip. If Oda was to re-draw the first half every instance of CoA usage would be shaded like Rayleigh’s cuffs re-draw was

I don't have much stake in the entire conversation, but I'd say this is debatable. Especially given the whole concept of Black Blades.

 

[Moss Green]

Lol, let me stop you there, you're already wrong from the get-go.

I never said Advanced King's Haki and Advanced Armament are the same thing.

I said THEY CAN DO THE SAME THING.

Then you’re adding nothing substantive to the discussion and all these posts are a waste of time

Okay, so you're building STRAWMEN here.

First quote, you say overlap. 2 things can be different and do the same thing. Cars and Bicycles overlap in the sense they're forms of transport, doesn't mean they're the same thing. Not saying they are in the case of Armament and King's Haki.

Second quioe, you say I'm saying Punches and Kicks are the same because they do damage. NOPE - I'm saying in this context, arms and legs can do damage, in that sense, they overlap, not that they're the same thing.
My entire point is King's Haki and Armament which are obviously different things... both overlap in the fact both can actually do physical damage....

Like this for example….ok? If all you’re saying is that they both can hurt so then….so what? You clearly haven’t effectively communicated your point over pages of threads if all you’re trying to say is both can hurt you? That’s like…the whole point of fighting what are you adding

I think you're confused. I think you just read the person whom I was responding to, and just assumed things. I'd advice you read properly.

Haha I’m pretty sure you’re confused. If all you wanted to do was show that King’s can do damage without touching well we didn’t need you for that did we. Can kinda just read the manga, no?

All these contrived quote posts and threads because of a clear lack of communication and doubling down on repeating yourself without adding any additional context to your argument. Can you see how we may have arrived here?

However, there's a distinction between SHADED (BLACK HAKI) and UNSHADED (BARE IN MIND BOTH ARE INVISIBLE), however, the Shaded is the superior version of the unshaded.

I don't think you've seen most of my posts were I actually tell people the Black Shaded Haki is actually Invisible.

Your entire response is you literally confused and conjuring strawmen statements I never made, or really, you just twisted what I said since you didn't get what I said properly.

There's a reason weak characters can only use unshaded (e.g. Tashigi) whereas the stronger people within the crew or the strongest all can use the shaded.

Those are just mistakes by the editors. It’s using 2 instances, including Sai, out of hundreds to create an entire subset of Haki that doesn’t exist. It’s the same reason they changed Page One’s fin or any other countless mistakes they make.

Kaido's club is already black

Quite sure if it wasn't, it would turn black with Haki, just like Roger and Whitebeard blades

At best it’s unclear. Oda could easily show him using it but has chosen not to. So in my view either his club is constantly clad in CoA or constantly not

 

[kkck]

Nah, this isn't even debatable.... You have standard CoA which is specifically an invisible armor around the body and then you have hardening, a specific advanced application of CoA which results in an actual visible color change where it is applied. What would even be the point of, say, gear 4 luffy looking different to us than he does to manga folk? The bit about blades becoming permanently black is of course just further prove but based on what we know it's just beating a dead horse...

 

[Moss Green]

I don't have much stake in the entire conversation, but I'd say this is debatable. Especially given the whole concept of Black Blades.

But no one ever talks about seeing Haki do they? It’s always about “feel”.

Black blades may become the exception at the pinnacle of Haki usage but the exceptions are not the rule. We’ve already been given the rules, 3 characters shouldn’t change that.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2021 ---

Nah, this isn't even debatable.... You have standard CoA which is specifically an invisible armor around the body and then you have hardening, a specific advanced application of CoA which results in an actual visible color change where it is applied. What would even be the point of, say, gear 4 luffy looking different to us than he does to manga folk? The bit about blades becoming permanently black is of course just further prove but based on what we know it's just beating a dead horse...

Re: Luffy because it looks cool and sells toys.

You can’t actually find a single instance where someone says they can see CoA. The person who teaches us readers Haki, and teaches Luffy the “hardening” he uses, told Luffy it’s invisible so why is it not?

 

[kkck]

But no one ever talks about seeing Haki do they? It’s always about “feel”.

Black blades may become the exception at the pinnacle of Haki usage but the exceptions are not the rule. We’ve already been given the rules, 3 characters shouldn’t change that.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2021 ---

Re: Luffy because it looks cool and sells toys.

You can’t actually find a single instance where someone says they can see CoA. The person who teaches us readers Haki, and teaches Luffy the “hardening” he uses, told Luffy it’s invisible so why is it not?

Welp, there is the bit with swords turning permanently black via haki. But as I said, it makes zero sense that hardening can't be seen with the naked eye by people in the manga. Literally all of the cues around it are visual. There is no instance of the manga showing what hardening clad people look like to other people in the manga... Oda puts a fair bit of effort into showing hardening when drawing, the thing even has a very specific black shading. It's absurd and nonsensical that hardening isn't visible to people in the series.

 

[HereNThere]

But no one ever talks about seeing Haki do they? It’s always about “feel”.

Black blades may become the exception at the pinnacle of Haki usage but the exceptions are not the rule. We’ve already been given the rules, 3 characters shouldn’t change that.

I'd say just because no one hasn't said to see haki, doesn't mean they can't. Especially when, in context if the series, it's common place and no one would really feel the need to point out Hardening is in use.

I look at it like this. If Oda feels the need to give Hardening its own term and visual flare when it's being used, it's seperate from normal "Invisible Haki".

Also, duh, I just remembered "Black Arm" Zephyr. While film itself is non canon, I do believe Zephyr is seeing as how, like Shiki, he was created directly by Oda. And seeing as how his epithet references his expertise haki, Hardening in particular, I'd say that is proof enough. Volume 1000 was where that came from.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Then you’re adding nothing substantive to the discussion and all these posts are a waste of time

He was saying King's Haki doesn't do damage because that's the ROLE of Armament.

My point was it clearly does.

Nuance is lost on you my dude, lol.

Pretty hypocritical to not blame the guy for not understanding King's Haki does damage, but the person trying to explain that it does is at fault? You're hilarious.

Like this for example….ok? If all you’re saying is that they both can hurt so then….so what? You clearly haven’t effectively communicated your point over pages of threads if all you’re trying to say is both can hurt you? That’s like…the whole point of fighting what are you adding

KKCK grasped what I was saying and you didn't.

The other guy I was arguing with was not a comprehension issue, it was either too much in denial or was too dishonest to admit King's Haki does do damage and KKCK himself recognised I was saying they overlap and aren't the same thing.

Clearly, it's a reading issue on your part when I was clear, lol.

Those are just mistakes by the editors. It’s using 2 instances, including Sai, out of hundreds to create an entire subset of Haki that doesn’t exist. It’s the same reason they changed Page One’s fin or any other countless mistakes they make.

My dude, you're making this up, lol.

There are 100s of instances where Haki is not shaded.

You really think the 100s of times it's not shaded is pure editor's mistake? LOL.

Very first time we see Luffy use Haki, you mean both Oda and the Animators forgot? Alright dude.

We've been seeing unshaded Haki since Chapter 601.

Even in chapter 1009, Luffy uses unshaded Haki.

Please, line up your information and get your facts straight.

Haha I’m pretty sure you’re confused. If all you wanted to do was show that King’s can do damage without touching well we didn’t need you for that did we. Can kinda just read the manga, no?

All these contrived quote posts and threads because of a clear lack of communication and doubling down on repeating yourself without adding any additional context to your argument. Can you see how we may have arrived here?

You're so salty.

This is a forum for discussions, lol.

He was arguing that King's Haki doesn't damage and I said otherwise.

I'm not allowed to argue my point?

If anything, your issue should be with the guy that requires me to point out the obvious, lol. Ironically, even you yourself are no better, you have no idea that Unshaded Haki is a thing that's clearly a thing.

Instead of blindly making up strawmen, try being honest perhaps and maybe own up you didn't understand what you read and took it out of context. No need to get salty.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2021 ---

Welp, there is the bit with swords turning permanently black via haki. But as I said, it makes zero sense that hardening can't be seen with the naked eye by people in the manga. Literally all of the cues around it are visual. There is no instance of the manga showing what hardening clad people look like to other people in the manga... Oda puts a fair bit of effort into showing hardening when drawing, the thing even has a very specific black shading. It's absurd and nonsensical that hardening isn't visible to people in the series.

It actually isn't visible. They had lights to view Luffy under the ocean, so they would clearly have seen a big giant black fist. No one has ever mentioned a character turning black, Haki is sensed.

Franky asked if Luffy could use Armament even though he used it against Surume. No way he just forgot a big black wrecking-ball of a fist. It's just not visibly black, it's just shaded to show it's the higher level of Armament.

Even Rayleigh removing the cuff in Sabaody, pre-skip it was unshaded whereas post, we actually see his fist was black when removing Camie's celestial collar. So, back then, they had no idea what was going on nor could they see his hands turned black. If people were changing colour, they'd surely have referenced it pre-skip if it was something actually seen.

It's detected/sensed, not seen.

 

[A$APBog]

You're so salty.

This is a forum for discussions, lol.

He was arguing that King's Haki doesn't damage and I said otherwise.

I'm not allowed to argue my point?

If anything, your issue should be with the guy that requires me to point out the obvious, lol. Ironically, even you yourself are no better, you have no idea that Unshaded Haki is a thing that's clearly a thing.

You are seriously the one saying that ? I mean when it comes to belittling or insulting people when they argue a little bit too much, you are quite a reference here.

That's effectively quite hypocritical coming from you.

And when it comes to talking about "obvious points"...

Jeez, you arguing that Killer have not inflicted any damages to Kaidou was also "pretty obvious" when we argued together.

So obvious that Oda recently indicated in a SBS that Killer inflicted internal damages to his opponent with his blades.

So obvious that as a lot of your precedent theories, you were wrong.

You can write a lot of words about an aspect of the story and be narrowminded about a subject, it doesn't make you automatically right on the matter.

You were wrong, it is very possible that you are right now and you will also be wrong in the future.

Deal with it, because it's not a big deal.

 

[kkck]

He was saying King's Haki doesn't do damage because that's the ROLE of Armament.

My point was it clearly does.

Nuance is lost on you my dude, lol.

Pretty hypocritical to not blame the guy for not understanding King's Haki does damage, but the person trying to explain that it does is at fault? You're hilarious.

KKCK grasped what I was saying and you didn't.

The other guy I was arguing with was not a comprehension issue, it was either too much in denial or was too dishonest to admit King's Haki does do damage and KKCK himself recognised I was saying they overlap and aren't the same thing.

Clearly, it's a reading issue on your part when I was clear, lol.





My dude, you're making this up, lol.

There are 100s of instances where Haki is not shaded.

You really think the 100s of times it's not shaded is pure editor's mistake? LOL.

Very first time we see Luffy use Haki, you mean both Oda and the Animators forgot? Alright dude.

We've been seeing unshaded Haki since Chapter 601.

Even in chapter 1009, Luffy uses unshaded Haki.

Please, line up your information and get your facts straight.



You're so salty.

This is a forum for discussions, lol.

He was arguing that King's Haki doesn't damage and I said otherwise.

I'm not allowed to argue my point?

If anything, your issue should be with the guy that requires me to point out the obvious, lol. Ironically, even you yourself are no better, you have no idea that Unshaded Haki is a thing that's clearly a thing.

Instead of blindly making up strawmen, try being honest perhaps and maybe own up you didn't understand what you read and took it out of context. No need to get salty.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 8, 2021 ---

It actually isn't visible. They had lights to view Luffy under the ocean, so they would clearly have seen a big giant black fist. No one has ever mentioned a character turning black, Haki is sensed.

Franky asked if Luffy could use Armament even though he used it against Surume. No way he just forgot a big black wrecking-ball of a fist. It's just not visibly black, it's just shaded to show it's the higher level of Armament.

Even Rayleigh removing the cuff in Sabaody, pre-skip it was unshaded whereas post, we actually see his fist was black when removing Camie's celestial collar. So, back then, they had no idea what was going on nor could they see his hands turned black. If people were changing colour, they'd surely have referenced it pre-skip if it was something actually seen.

It's detected/sensed, not seen.

Those pages in no way evidence haki not being visible to manga characters. Luffy was not even using hardening when franky asked if that was haki at work.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Those pages in no way evidence haki not being visible to manga characters. Luffy was not even using hardening when franky asked if that was haki at work.

It does.

FIghting Surume in front of ALL the SHs with his fist black happened before Punk Hazard.

Why would you need to ask if Luffy can use Haki when you already saw him use Haki? That's illogical.

Doesn't matter if he's using Hardening after fighting Surume, fact is if he'd seen him use Hardening against Surume, that's proof he can use Haki. So, the fact he had to ask if Luffy can use Haki proves he saw nothing.

 

[Moss Green]

Even in chapter 1009, Luffy uses unshaded Haki.

Please, line up your information and get your facts straight.

A perfect representation of the inconsistency of the manga and why you shouldn’t take non-shaded panels seriously. You JUST claimed that invisible Haki is the weakest version of it. Using the “weakling” Tashigi and her non-visible Haki as a reference. So why is Kaido dodging the weakest version of Haki that you could possibly put out if it’s being implied to being the ACTUAL strongest?

I'd say just because no one hasn't said to see haki, doesn't mean they can't. Especially when, in context if the series, it's common place and no one would really feel the need to point out Hardening is in use.

I look at it like this. If Oda feels the need to give Hardening its own term and visual flare when it's being used, it's seperate from normal "Invisible Haki".

Also, duh, I just remembered "Black Arm" Zephyr. While film itself is non canon, I do believe Zephyr is seeing as how, like Shiki, he was created directly by Oda. And seeing as how his epithet references his expertise haki, Hardening in particular, I'd say that is proof enough. Volume 1000 was where that came from.

I don’t watch the movies so I can’t discuss that but they’re not canon so regardless so it doesn’t really matter.


That’s the thing does Hardening isn’t a separate term that’s just what it does. Take weapons for example. All Haki does is harden them, no chips on the blade arrows flying through rocks like butter etc. They aren’t special techniques for weapons he just went a different way with it. Notice how no one ever says Koka since it was first introduced. Because Oda went a different way with it.

Haki was just something that wasn’t fully fleshed conceptually out when introduced and things changed as they went. It’s really that simple

 

[kkck]

It does.

FIghting Surume in front of ALL the SHs with his fist black happened before Punk Hazard.

Why would you need to ask if Luffy can use Haki when you already saw him use Haki? That's illogical.

Doesn't matter if he's using Hardening after fighting Surume, fact is if he'd seen him use Hardening against Surume, that's proof he can use Haki. So, the fact he had to ask if Luffy can use Haki proves he saw nothing.

Well, the reason is that franky all through fishman island and punk hazard franky had zero context of haki in general. Before that he just saw luffy's fist turning black at the most without further context on the matter.