Discussion Haki Thread

[Brandish μ]

For all ongoing Haki discussion, please post here.

 

[hokageji]

If it did, then it's wrong.

Databooks also said Shanks was an Emperor at 27 when he actually became an Emperor I think few years ago? Somewhere in his 30s.

If it sounds wrong or inaccurate, it probably is.

The CP9 were definitely not using Haki, they were using a martial art that emulated some aspects of Haki.

just checked, it says they are capable of using Haki, but perhaps its after the events of Enes Lobby.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The issue here would be when it creates consistency errors. Take the overall context we had of CP9 when they were introduced:

• World's strongest intelligence agency
• IIRC, the strongest CP9 in history.
• On top of that, rob lucci is by far it's strongest member. As in, the strongest member of the group's strongest iteration.
• Kuma was surprised that rob lucci was defeated.

CP9 is 1 of many Cipher Pols. Rob was the strongest of the CP9. Not the strongest in the world.

None of these are evidence for anything other than Rob Lucci was a prodigy and he got beat by an unknown who was a prodigy.

Luffy's showing in the war was ultimately the result of the support he had rather than the overall strength he wielded at the time.

That... was the point of Marineford. It was to show he was weak, but extremely lucky and had a charisma to pull people in. You're not pointing out any problems.

As of this point the mystique around rob lucci is just weird. Because rob lucci can either be one of the world's big players or a rookie. He can't be both.

He was a talent. Not the world's biggest player.

So then you have CP9... the world's second strongest intelligence agency... that is not competitive at all against people in the new world with names? And their members, most of whom were around their 30s. Close to 40 in jyabura's case. So.. they weren't exactly young either. They started fighting pretty young so they'd be fairly experience fighters by their 20s easily. And then... they didn't know how to use haki? Even if we make the case that the strawhats exhibit exceptional growth it seems fairly weird that people who have been fighting for 15 years or more don't exhibit some manner of it, specially if they are regarded as being exceptionally gifted fighters.

They were... based in Paradise.

Fighting young or not is irrelevant. Being a good fighter doesn't mean you'll be a good Haki user.

Aisa was born being able to use Haki, and was never able to fight. Point is moot. Haki is not a martial art, it's an innate power that people have to varying degrees and some can unlock. Not everyone wins that lottery. Not everyone will be able to use it after 10 or 20 years.

 

[Hrathgrath]

CP9 is 1 of many Cipher Pols. Rob was the strongest of the CP9. Not the strongest in the world.

He said ONE of the worlds strongest players. And you’re avoiding the fact that, at the time, CP9 was the greatest of the marines’ Cipher Pol units. Assassins that they held in highest regards among their assassins.

None of these are evidence for anything other than Rob Lucci was a prodigy and he got beat by an unknown who was a prodigy.

It’s evidence of the fact that he was supposed to be this world class, cannon tanking, prodigious martial artist, and had he used Haki, he should have been able to kill Luffy with little effort. Without Luffy’s stretching ability, which would have been negated by Haki techniques, softening the blows from Lucci, Luffy would be dead way early in that fight.

That... was the point of Marineford. It was to show he was weak, but extremely lucky and had a charisma to pull people in. You're not pointing out any problems.



He was a talent. Not the world's biggest player.

Again, ONE of the worlds biggest players. At least that’s what he was said to have been, based on the comments by others, and especially Kuma’s comment about being surprised that Lucci was defeated at all, much less by a up and comer rookie. Remember that Kuma said he was surprised Lucci was defeated, not that Luffy defeated him. (Semantics, I know, but important when taken into consideration with everything else we were told about Lucci’s capabilities)

They were... based in Paradise.

Fighting young or not is irrelevant. Being a good fighter doesn't mean you'll be a good Haki user.

Aisa was born being able to use Haki, and was never able to fight. Point is moot. Haki is not a martial art, it's an innate power that people have to varying degrees and some can unlock. Not everyone wins that lottery. Not everyone will be able to use it after 10 or 20 years.

This last bit is like saying “Just because he is extremely skilled with guns, that doesn’t mean he would know how to use special ammunition” Haki is not a martial art, like you said. It’s a tool. When combined with martial arts, it becomes a weapon of great power. It can be trained. We know Lucci was capable of learning it, seeing as how he supposedly did over the timeskip, but we are supposed to believe that the world government simply forgot or, even worse, chose not to teach him? Seeing as how it would make their assassin(s) exponentially better at their job? That’s like saying “two plus two can equal eight. All you have to do is tear each piece in half before you count!”

 

[ANBU4U]

Wait, so according to the vivre cards...every Tobbi Roppo could use Armament and Observation Haki...but just...didn't? Ulti used both, as did Who's Who's. But Page One, Black Maria and Sasaki just didn't think defending themselves was necessary?

 

[kkck]

Wait, so according to the vivre cards...every Tobbi Roppo could use Armament and Observation Haki...but just...didn't? Ulti used both, as did Who's Who's. But Page One, Black Maria and Sasaki just didn't think defending themselves was necessary?

They probably just used the invisible versions of those. Which is perfectly reasonable within the series' context.

 

[HereNThere]

Knowing he was fighting against a rather sturdy mech, I'd have expected Sasaki to use hardening.

Knowing she was going against a woman who could bloom literally anywhere, I'd have expected Mariah to use some form of CoO. Her choosing to use brass knuckles instead of hardening could somewhat be justified by her recently revealed vain character trait. She doesn't want to get her hands dirty.

Page One could be argued could be argued that he demonstrated CoO when he transformed along with his sister after she head butted Luffy. No excuse for him not hardening his teeth when doing any of his attacks though.

 

[jaymizzo]

Lurking legend could be Yamato who calls himself Oden, it could be anyone. There's been no mention of said person for a long time, if one person is wrong then everyone else is.

I swear Rayleigh mentioned mentioned there are three forms of Haki, CoC, CoA and CoO... How CoC is just an advanced form of CoA is beyond me.

Yamato knowing advanced CoC could be a given, it's never been stated anywhere else that advanced CoA is a prerequisite of advanced CoC... We've literally just learnt that it's even a thing through Luffys understanding.

Yamato not knowing how to take his cuffs off is not an indication that he doesn't know how to use the internal form of CoA... Yamato probably never thought of using it in that specific manner.

And as many have mentioned, as far as we know, until we get more backstory on Yamato, Yamato didn't have anyone train them on the application of Haki.

For all we know Yamato could possess all 3 forms of Haki but just doesn't know how to fully apply them.

Mind your egos... The manga is still exploring Haki to draw such absolute conclusions.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

You're talking straight nonsense here, let's be honest. There's no such thing as visualiser, you're just making things up.



Haki works the same for everyone. It's not different for anyone. Only difference is some people are more talented and can use stronger forms of Haki.



Rayleigh performed the most basic of Advanced Armament which is Barrier Haki.

Hyogoro taught Luffy exactly what Rayleigh did, or rather, showed him Barrier Haki.

Luffy didn't even get it right until Big Mom appeared, and he was doing something he never saw Hyogoro or Rayleigh do. He learnt Internal Haki instinctively, not Barrier Haki.

So, the excuse Rayleigh is relevant is utter nonsense when Luffy didn't even do what Rayleigh or Hyogoro did, he went a level above it.



Again, you're actually speaking nonsense.

It has nothing to learning to use it in a specific way. Once you can use a form of Haki, you can use it. There's no specific way.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

You do know Seastone not only suppresses DF powers, but Haki? Those weren't seastone cuffs, or else, he'd have lost energy since he's a DF user and been unable to use Haki. It's just an exploding cuff.

She also fought Ace, a DF user. No way she could have fought Ace if she was bound in Kairoseki.

It'd be impossible to even be supressed by seastone as a DF user, and then fight Toe to Toe with Ace. Luffy could barely fight against Headliners when he had Seastone suppressing him.

hey it was mentioined by oda in the sbs that the cuffs had some seastone in it
also this is what i mwant, luffy was in a desperate situation when he took off the cuffs it was do or die for hyogoro

and other part, luffy had at least seen

yamato could probably learn It fast if taught or show BUT has never been taught or seen how to use it in that manner, yamato has the tools she just didn't know she could apply it that way
even when Luffy first used it it was subconsciously

also here's the sbs megathread, yamato having seastone cuffs is mentioned in a vivre card sbs megathgread

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Lurking legend could be Yamato who calls himself Oden, it could be anyone.

Got to consider... they said this legend will be Luffy's toughest fight. Surely, Luffy is not going to fight Yamato.

I swear Rayleigh mentioned mentioned there are three forms of Haki, CoC, CoA and CoO... How CoC is just an advanced form of CoA is beyond me.

Factually, unless I'm being factually wrong, 2 points:

1. Advanced Armament destroys from the inside is too shallow.
2. Luffy's deciding to use King's Haki which must imply... King's Haki goes deeper.

Which essentially makes it a stronger form of Armament, it's just making attacks stronger.

Yamato knowing advanced CoC could be a given, it's never been stated anywhere else that advanced CoA is a prerequisite of advanced CoC... We've literally just learnt that it's even a thing through Luffys understanding.

Things don't always have to be stated IF it's implied.

King's Haki seems like a progression of Advanced Armament.

In fact, Zoro used Armament when he scarred Kaido, but Kaido still questioned if it was King's Haki which suggests King's Haki is just stronger form of Armament.

Yamato not knowing how to take his cuffs off is not an indication that he doesn't know how to use the internal form of CoA... Yamato probably never thought of using it in that specific manner.

Makes no sense.

Hyogoro knew about Internal Destruction, but couldn't use it.

Luffy never knew about Internal Haki, but did it. Doesn't require being a genius to use something that's obviously stronger to do something that requires strength.

Does it really require being a rocket science to know that a wooden hammer won't break a brick wall, but a sledge hammer which is stronger than a wooden hammer would offer more power?

If she had Internal Armament which is just stronger than Barrier, was she so stupid she couldn't put 2 and 2 together to conclude "hold on, I have a stronger form of Armament, maybe if I use it on this cuff, it'd actually break?".

It's like being able to use Invisible Armament and Hardening, and claiming said character didn't know Hardening which is stronger could be used for stronger attacks. Every Haki user capable of using Hardening knows if they want to perform their strongest attacks, they have to use Hardening...

So why would someone who could use Internal Haki not use their strongest form of Haki to do something that requires strength? It makes 0 sense unless you're claiming Yamato is actually brain dead stupid, lol.

Yamato didn't have anyone train them on the application of Haki.

So, she learnt how to use Armament, Observation, Thunder Bagua without being mentored. She can learn all these things on her own.

However, using Internal Armament which is just stronger, she couldn't quite figure that out when it essentially does the same thing as any form of Armament, but stronger? Makes no sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

hey it was mentioined by oda in the sbs that the cuffs had some seastone in it

That's false, you're making up nonsense. No where did Oda state the cuffs had seastone.

Again, it's common knowledge which you apparently aren't aware of that if it had seastone, she'd never have been able to hurt Ace who is a Logia. Can't hurt Logias without Haki bud. And can't use Haki with Seastones.

also this is what i mwant, luffy was in a desperate situation when he took off the cuffs it was do or die for hyogoro

and other part, luffy had at least seen

Luffy wasn't being taught Internal Haki, yet he still did it.

You've gone from:
They have to be taught.
Now, they have to see it.

It's nonsense. Luffy used King's Haki pre-skip without ever seeing it or being taught, so the idea being taught or seeing something is the only way to learn to use a power is nonsensical.

Aisa from Skypiea learnt to use Observation Haki as a baby, no one taught her nor did she see anyone use it. So, it's a baseless and laughable claim to say Yamato wasn't taught, so she never knew she could use it.

Armament Haki is meant for physical application. It's not rocket science that using a power that essentially increases strength might just make it easier to break a cuff.

yamato could probably learn It fast if taught or show BUT has never been taught or seen how to use it in that manner, yamato has the tools she just didn't know she could apply it that way

Armament Haki just makes attacks stronger. Your argument is absurd. The idea she had Internal haki, but couldn't decide to use it to break a cuff? It's frankly laughable.

It's literally like having a gun and a cannon, and telling me someone has to tell you and show you that a cannon can break down things that guns are too weak to destroy? Common now, your logic is nonsensical here.

Kaido is brutal style of fighting that’s all Yamato has learnt

So, you claim no one taught Yamato how to use Haki, but she was able to learn Kaido's techniques.

She was able to learn Haki and Observation.

If she could learn martial arts, Haki, and Observation by herself, then the idea she needs someone to tell her a stronger form of Haki is more powerful is asinine.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Got to consider... they said this legend will be Luffy's toughest fight. Surely, Luffy is not going to fight Yamato.

Factually, unless I'm being factually wrong, 2 points:

1. Advanced Armament destroys from the inside is too shallow.
2. Luffy's deciding to use King's Haki which must imply... King's Haki goes deeper.

Which essentially makes it a stronger form of Armament, it's just making attacks stronger.



Things don't always have to be stated IF it's implied.

King's Haki seems like a progression of Advanced Armament.

In fact, Zoro used Armament when he scarred Kaido, but Kaido still questioned if it was King's Haki which suggests King's Haki is just stronger form of Armament.



Makes no sense.

Hyogoro knew about Internal Destruction, but couldn't use it.

Luffy never knew about Internal Haki, but did it. Doesn't require being a genius to use something that's obviously stronger to do something that requires strength.

Does it really require being a rocket science to know that a wooden hammer won't break a brick wall, but a sledge hammer which is stronger than a wooden hammer would offer more power?

If she had Internal Armament which is just stronger than Barrier, was she so stupid she couldn't put 2 and 2 together to conclude "hold on, I have a stronger form of Armament, maybe if I use it on this cuff, it'd actually break?".

It's like being able to use Invisible Armament and Hardening, and claiming said character didn't know Hardening which is stronger could be used for stronger attacks. Every Haki user capable of using Hardening knows if they want to perform their strongest attacks, they have to use Hardening...

So why would someone who could use Internal Haki not use their strongest form of Haki to do something that requires strength? It makes 0 sense unless you're claiming Yamato is actually brain dead stupid, lol.



So, she learnt how to use Armament, Observation, Thunder Bagua without being mentored. She can learn all these things on her own.

However, using Internal Armament which is just stronger, she couldn't quite figure that out when it essentially does the same thing as any form of Armament, but stronger? Makes no sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

That's false, you're making up nonsense. No where did Oda state the cuffs had seastone.

Again, it's common knowledge which you apparently aren't aware of that if it had seastone, she'd never have been able to hurt Ace who is a Logia. Can't hurt Logias without Haki bud. And can't use Haki with Seastones.




Luffy wasn't being taught Internal Haki, yet he still did it.

You've gone from:
They have to be taught.
Now, they have to see it.

It's nonsense. Luffy used King's Haki pre-skip without ever seeing it or being taught, so the idea being taught or seeing something is the only way to learn to use a power is nonsensical.

Aisa from Skypiea learnt to use Observation Haki as a baby, no one taught her nor did she see anyone use it. So, it's a baseless and laughable claim to say Yamato wasn't taught, so she never knew she could use it.

Armament Haki is meant for physical application. It's not rocket science that using a power that essentially increases strength might just make it easier to break a cuff.



Armament Haki just makes attacks stronger. Your argument is absurd. The idea she had Internal haki, but couldn't decide to use it to break a cuff? It's frankly laughable.

It's literally like having a gun and a cannon, and telling me someone has to tell you and show you that a cannon can break down things that guns are too weak to destroy? Common now, your logic is nonsensical here.



So, you claim no one taught Yamato how to use Haki, but she was able to learn Kaido's techniques.

She was able to learn Haki and Observation.

If she could learn martial arts, Haki, and Observation by herself, then the idea she needs someone to tell her a stronger form of Haki is more powerful is asinine.

I literally linked the sbs mega thread that got translated , Yamato cuffs had some season time in em in the vivre cards

I’m not saying she just didn’t know how to apply haki in that manner that’s all , is it so impossible for her not to know how to split it in a specific way
[
Here’s the thread

here's a megathread with all the sbs info
New sbs megathread from reddit

some extra vivre card info

 

[jaymizzo]

Got to consider... they said this legend will be Luffy's toughest fight. Surely, Luffy is not going to fight Yamato.

Factually, unless I'm being factually wrong, 2 points:

1. Advanced Armament destroys from the inside is too shallow.
2. Luffy's deciding to use King's Haki which must imply... King's Haki goes deeper.

Which essentially makes it a stronger form of Armament, it's just making attacks stronger.



Things don't always have to be stated IF it's implied.

King's Haki seems like a progression of Advanced Armament.

In fact, Zoro used Armament when he scarred Kaido, but Kaido still questioned if it was King's Haki which suggests King's Haki is just stronger form of Armament.



Makes no sense.

Hyogoro knew about Internal Destruction, but couldn't use it.

Luffy never knew about Internal Haki, but did it. Doesn't require being a genius to use something that's obviously stronger to do something that requires strength.

Does it really require being a rocket science to know that a wooden hammer won't break a brick wall, but a sledge hammer which is stronger than a wooden hammer would offer more power?

If she had Internal Armament which is just stronger than Barrier, was she so stupid she couldn't put 2 and 2 together to conclude "hold on, I have a stronger form of Armament, maybe if I use it on this cuff, it'd actually break?".

It's like being able to use Invisible Armament and Hardening, and claiming said character didn't know Hardening which is stronger could be used for stronger attacks. Every Haki user capable of using Hardening knows if they want to perform their strongest attacks, they have to use Hardening...

So why would someone who could use Internal Haki not use their strongest form of Haki to do something that requires strength? It makes 0 sense unless you're claiming Yamato is actually brain dead stupid, lol.



So, she learnt how to use Armament, Observation, Thunder Bagua without being mentored. She can learn all these things on her own.

However, using Internal Armament which is just stronger, she couldn't quite figure that out when it essentially does the same thing as any form of Armament, but stronger? Makes no sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

That's false, you're making up nonsense. No where did Oda state the cuffs had seastone.

Again, it's common knowledge which you apparently aren't aware of that if it had seastone, she'd never have been able to hurt Ace who is a Logia. Can't hurt Logias without Haki bud. And can't use Haki with Seastones.




Luffy wasn't being taught Internal Haki, yet he still did it.

You've gone from:
They have to be taught.
Now, they have to see it.

It's nonsense. Luffy used King's Haki pre-skip without ever seeing it or being taught, so the idea being taught or seeing something is the only way to learn to use a power is nonsensical.

Aisa from Skypiea learnt to use Observation Haki as a baby, no one taught her nor did she see anyone use it. So, it's a baseless and laughable claim to say Yamato wasn't taught, so she never knew she could use it.

Armament Haki is meant for physical application. It's not rocket science that using a power that essentially increases strength might just make it easier to break a cuff.



Armament Haki just makes attacks stronger. Your argument is absurd. The idea she had Internal haki, but couldn't decide to use it to break a cuff? It's frankly laughable.

It's literally like having a gun and a cannon, and telling me someone has to tell you and show you that a cannon can break down things that guns are too weak to destroy? Common now, your logic is nonsensical here.



So, you claim no one taught Yamato how to use Haki, but she was able to learn Kaido's techniques.

She was able to learn Haki and Observation.

If she could learn martial arts, Haki, and Observation by herself, then the idea she needs someone to tell her a stronger form of Haki is more powerful is asinine.

It's hyperbolic to say Yamato on my, I hope that point wasn't lost. It isn't a fact that it is Kaido. We never expected two Yonkou to be in a fight this arc, there could possibly be someone else who Luffy has to fight before leaving Wano or on the way out.

On the Haki issue, the manga has factually given us three branches of Haki and not once has it ever been implied that these branches overlap. Luffy himself stated that he needed to use Kings Haki, showing a distinction to what he is currently using.

The implication in this thread is that they somehow overlap and are just stronger versions of each other. This would contradict the whole introduction we received of Haki.

It is fact within the manga that not everyone has Kings Haki, you are born with it or not. Those who are extremely proficient with armament like Luffy is but don't have CoC would never be able to achieve CoC coating because that is a separate branch of Haki.

On Yamato and CoA internal, it really doesn't mean she is stupid, just that she didn't think of using that application. Let's say Zoro or Sanji develop internal damage Haki as a natural progression to their CoA, would this mean they were stupid or simply just unaware of such an application? Was Zoro stupid not to know how to cut steel or was he simply inexperienced in its application? The same with Yamato, simply inexperienced in its application.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I’m not saying she just didn’t know how to apply haki in that manner that’s all , is it so impossible for her not to know how to split it in a specific way

It's a bad argument.

What you're saying is she had access to a gun (External Haki) and a cannon (Internal Haki) and couldn't quite workout that if she just used the Internal Haki, just maybe she'd be able to break her cuffs?

Again, the argument is a terrible one because it makes 0 sense.

If she had it, she'd have been using it.

I literally linked the sbs mega thread that got translated , Yamato cuffs had some season time in em in the vivre cards

Must be inaccurate. Seastone suppresses Haki. And Luffy held it too and wasn't losing energy or having any effect.

Kawamatsu was imprisoned for a decade despite being able to use Advanced Haki, so there's no way it has seastone.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

there could possibly be someone else who Luffy has to fight before leaving Wano or on the way out.

Lol:

1. Kaido
2. Big Mom
3. 3rd Person

And you think after Luffy defeats Kaido, he's going to defeat some 3rd person (lurking legend) who is supposed to be Luffy's toughest fight implying Kaido isn't going to be Luffy's toughest fight this arc? Got it.

not once has it ever been implied that these branches overlap.

Are you sure? Because Luffy's just said Internal wasn't deep enough meaning King's Haki goes deeper implying it's doing the same thing but better which implies they overlap, yet you're saying the opposite, lol.

So, you're trying to say King's Haki doesn't make attacks stronger?

On Yamato and CoA internal, it really doesn't mean she is stupid

Oh, it does mean she's stupid.

If I had a BB gun and a pistol, and I had a padlock that I needed to break to escape. I use my BB gun, it doesn't work, but I don't use the pistol which would DEFINITELY break the padlock, then that's epitome of stupidity.

Your argument in essence is Yamato's a fool who can't use common sense. It's the only logic that makes sense, lol.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Was Zoro stupid not to know how to cut steel or was he simply inexperienced in its application? The same with Yamato, simply inexperienced in its application.

Wrong.

Zoro didn't know how to use BOAT, and the moment he learnt to use it, he decided to test it. He has intelligence and that can't be compared to what Yamato did.

What application? Taking something off? She really needs to be taught to grab a cuff and then break it? Is she really that stupid?

Apparently has the strongest form of Haki, but she can't quite use her head to conclude "If I use this power to hold this cuff, crush and twist it.... just maybe... just maybe it'd break"? She needs a master and a mentor to explain that to her? Then she is even more idiotic than Luffy.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

i think Sanji will never have kings haki, and wouldn't be salty to me....

I don't think he will either, however, I won't say he won't get it in future.

If he's going to defeat an Admiral, I think he will need it. I'm just going to assume in order to defeat an Admiral or Emperor, without King's Haki, it's probably nigh impossible.

I would still say Zoro is 10x more likely of getting it that Sanji given his end goal is Mihawk. More so, Luffy doesn't really need the most powerful crew per se since he has far more allies than Roger had. Luffy will essentially have Wano, Fishman Island, Zou, Dressrosa, Alabasta, probably the Supernova and such for the final war against the Celestial Dragons. I'd imagine the RA, Boa Hancock, Elbaf and probably WCI (in the form of Katakuri and the BMP remnants) assuming Big Mom is defeated and they get indebted to Luffy.

The final war will likely be the biggest war and will comprise all of Luffy's allies.

 

[hokageji]

do the admirals have Kings haki though? dont think so.. but they do have advanced CoA.... either ways, lets see if he's gonna get it.. i doubt it

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

do the admirals have Kings haki though? dont think so.. but they do have advanced CoA.... either ways, lets see if he's gonna get it.. i doubt it

Sengoku is a confirmed King's Haki user. He's probably capable of using it as a weapon too. There are probably other Admirals with the ability to use it too. King's Haki is not exclusive to Pirates.

Not expecting Sanji to have it, but I won't be too surprised if he does show some affinity for it in future.

 

[M3J]

I don't really mind whether or not Sanji gets king's haki, but Zoro if all people should have the potential, even if he's not as charismatic/likeable as others with the haki. Imagine if Mihawk doesn't have king's haki and Zoro does though, that'd be one way he'd have surpassed Mihawk.

 

[hokageji]

Sengoku is a confirmed King's Haki user. He's probably capable of using it as a weapon too. There are probably other Admirals with the ability to use it too. King's Haki is not exclusive to Pirates.

Not expecting Sanji to have it, but I won't be too surprised if he does show some affinity for it in future.

sengoku is an outlier... one can make the argument that there are more marines who have it, but till we see proof, its just speculation... we havent even seen King have King's haki.
But nevertheless, Sanji's ambition has nothing to do with ruling which is why i find it unlikely, but Chinjao had it so lets see

 

[jaymizzo]

It's a bad argument.

What you're saying is she had access to a gun (External Haki) and a cannon (Internal Haki) and couldn't quite workout that if she just used the Internal Haki, just maybe she'd be able to break her cuffs?

It's kind of how inexperience works. But sure, do tell how anyone who knows internal damage Haki automatically makes the connection that it can disarm bombs.

I mean, Luffy worked out himself how to use that form of Haki, it's not like anyone taught him or anything.

Again, the argument is a terrible one because it makes 0 sense.

Just because you disagree you are going to call my argument bad? Check your ego.

And you think after Luffy defeats Kaido, he's going to defeat some 3rd person (lurking legend) who is supposed to be Luffy's toughest fight implying Kaido isn't going to be Luffy's toughest fight this arc? Got it.

Good, I'm glad you've come to the conclusion that it is an opinion based on the same information you are exposed to. Until this lurking legend is revealed, I'm happy to think it could be a third person.

Feel free to prove me wrong with actual manga panels.

Are you sure? Because Luffy's just said Internal wasn't deep enough meaning King's Haki goes deeper implying it's doing the same thing but better which implies they overlap, yet you're saying the opposite, lol.

CoC application is not just a more powerful version of advanced CoA. If you can take a minute to show me where it has ever implied that Haki branches overlap, Im all ears. Until then, don't think Il conceed to your implications.

CoC, CoA, CoO. Not once have these been implied to overlap. Not once. By you sure, but it's not a manga based on your interpretation.

So, you're trying to say King's Haki doesn't make attacks stronger?

It does, that was never the discussion. The goal post is them overlapping/CoC being just a stronger version of CoA. You've failed to prove it is.

If I had a BB gun and a pistol, and I had a padlock that I needed to break to escape. I use my BB gun, it doesn't work, but I don't use the pistol which would DEFINITELY break the padlock, then that's epitome of stupidity.

What is this example attempting to imply?

Your argument in essence is Yamato's a fool who can't use common sense. It's the only logic that makes sense, lol.

The ability does not come natural to someone. It is learnt. Literally spent a whole sub plot in the manga with Luffy attempting it's application.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 2, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 2, 2021 ---

Wrong.

Zoro didn't know how to use BOAT, and the moment he learnt to use it, he decided to test it. He has intelligence and that can't be compared to what Yamato did.

What application? Taking something off? She really needs to be taught to grab a cuff and then break it? Is she really that stupid?

Apparently has the strongest form of Haki, but she can't quite use her head to conclude "If I use this power to hold this cuff, crush and twist it.... just maybe... just maybe it'd break"? She needs a master and a mentor to explain that to her? Then she is even more idiotic than Luffy.

What is this even trying to accomplish? You are proving my point. BOAT is a skill Zoro had to learn, he couldn't cut steel even though he had the ability to do so. He was inexperienced with cutting steel until he figured out a way to do so.

IIRC isn't there a whole thing about swordsmen having the inherent ability to cut things they want and things they don't? Could be misremembering here but didn't Zoro remember this application of swordsmanship that inspired him to try and cut steel?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

It's kind of how inexperience works. But sure, do tell how anyone who knows internal damage Haki automatically makes the connection that it can disarm bombs.

Haki doesn't disarm bombs. It's just more powerful. Just crush the cuffs. It's not rocket science.

Reason it can't be broken with any other form of Haki is... it's not strong enough to break it.

What is this even trying to accomplish? You are proving my point. BOAT is a skill Zoro had to learn, he couldn't cut steel even though he had the ability to do so

Wrong, he never had the ability to use it until that moment. Go reread that chapter again.

Good, I'm glad you've come to the conclusion that it is an opinion based on the same information you are exposed to. Until this lurking legend is revealed, I'm happy to think it could be a third person.

Feel free to prove me wrong with actual manga panels.

It's common sense. They said the lurking legend will be Luffy's toughest opponent to date, and you brought up Yamato? You forgot she's an ally? Common now, lol.

The ability does not come natural to someone. It is learnt. Literally spent a whole sub plot in the manga with Luffy attempting it's application.

Wrong. He was learning to activate it.

It's the dumbest Idea to claim Yamato could activate Internal Haki, and couldn't come to the conclusion that if she just squeezed the cuffs, it'd break, lol. She needed someone to tell her the obvious, sure bud.

Imagine needing someone to teach you to just use common sense to break.

Imagine thinking "how do I break this thing with this power that makes me 10x stronger". It's the height of stupidity.

Luffy didn't even need anyone to tell him, he simply squeezed the cuffs and threw it away. Apparently, that's rocket science, lol.

CoC application is not just a more powerful version of advanced CoA.

You're just being ignorant is all. Luffy more or less said King's Haki goes deeper than Armament.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Sep 3, 2021 ---

Just because you disagree you are going to call my argument bad? Check your ego.

Has nothing to do with ego.

If you say 2+2 = 10, me telling you your arithmetic calculation is wrong or bad has nothing to do with ego, just facts.