Kaoz

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If mirror eyes was actually that strong couldn't Fuwa beat Tohno? He could use mirror eyes after facing executions and win because Tohno can't take the pain.
Everybody who is ranked above Fuwa has better stats than him, so they probably wouldn't have to resort to their special moves in order to have the advantage against him.
 

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Tanegashima's tennis is quite confusing. He's style looks very effective against Sanada & those who have flashy techniques.
But I wonder how it would work against Players like Irie, Yukimura.
If Tanegashima plays against Irie or Yuki there will be endless rallying.
Also Tanegashima stated that he would Hate to play against Irie. Right?????
Does that mean anything???:^_^
 

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Well then why was there emphasis on Muga as if that was the reason he was able to reach the move when all he did was pivot around to get the shot?
Possibly Shiraishi's Bible if it can be muga'd since Bible was used vs Fuji to pivot and hit a counter. Both are national moves so who knows.
 

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Tanegashima's tennis is quite confusing. He's style looks very effective against Sanada & those who have flashy techniques.
But I wonder how it would work against Players like Irie, Yukimura.
If Tanegashima plays against Irie or Yuki there will be endless rallying.
Also Tanegashima stated that he would Hate to play against Irie. Right?????
Does that mean anything???:^_^
It seems to me Tanegashima would have problem against people who don't rely on special moves, and Irie does not rely on special moves (Trollface is not a special move) which would explain why Tanegashima said he hates playing Irie.

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 AM ----------

You are completely right. I also think Kabaji would get destroyed by Chitose, I just wanted to try and defend him but I mostly wanted to figure out the extent of Atobe Kingdom's strength. The three moves that are most confusing to me right now are Mirror eyes, Atobe Kingdom and Wonder Castle.

I think Atobe Kingdom could break through wonder castle, but then again Marui is said to have Godlike reflexes. Could it also beat Kin Chan's wild nature?

If mirror eyes was actually that strong couldn't Fuwa beat Tohno? He could use mirror eyes after facing executions and win because Tohno can't take the pain.

If the only way to beat atobe kingdom is through dislocating your shoulder or using TnK, would it work on Tanegamishima?
Atobe Kingdom is more of an 'inherent truth of the universe' as opposed to a tech. That is, based on an opponent's position, there's always some spot that is inherently impossible for him to reach no matter what. Atobe Kingdom merely reveals what this spot is. The shot Atobe hits is nothing special, but it doesn't have to be because he's hitting to a spot that, by definition, cannot be returned.

So you can basically say the chance to even reach a shot made by Atobe Kingdom is 0%, so even if Tanegashima can nullify any tech, he still can't return AK because he can't reach the shot in the first place. So far, the only defense against AK would be Tezuka Zone and possibly the smoke effect from guys with power from another dimension (can't see their blind spots if you can't see them!).

That said, Tanegashima is the #2, so I wouldn't be surprised if he just uses a variant of the Tezuka Zone. After all, all you need to do is move the ball just a tiny bit so that it can't hit that 'impossible to return' spot, and presumably as long as the ball didn't hit the impossible spot, Tanegashima would be more than capable of returning it.

---------- Post added at 12:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 AM ----------

Sanada said only 3 guys have completely mastered Muga, which is himself, Yukimura, and Chitose. I'm pretty sure Chitose can consciously select what moves to use since he's one of the 3 guys that mastered it, so unlike Ryoma he can definitely select which moves he wants to use instead of just using them in a seemingly random order.

Kabaji can no doubt copy Muga itself, but I don't think he'd be able to copy Chitose's mastery, so he'd just be using Muga randomly versus a guy who can control what moves to use, and he'd lose. Even if he does have full control over Muga, Chitose must have more experience and should win. I believe Kabaji's copying is not instantaneous, so Chitose can simply just cycle through different moves.
 

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Wait, what?

You're all saying Chitose is a great tactician... what has he done to earn that? He only countered Tezuka because he studied Muga for a long time, not because he was a master tactician... and what does hat make Tezuka then? A dumbass that showed Kabaji every single one of his techs? I wonder why he doesn't have a 0.5 in mental then.

Kabaji has always showed to surprass his rival EVERY SINGLE TIME he manages to copy him, even freaking Tezuka (he couldn't do it to Jirou btw, inb4 you name him). Dunno why Chitose would be an exception.

Hyotei HAS chances to beat Shiten, they are around the same level. Silver pair has a better coordination than any pair in Shiten (maybe Gin would KO one of them, but that's another story), Kabaji is a monster that will copy everything that isn't a natural ability, Dirty Pair is OK (they might be better than funny pair), Atobe is... Atobe, and Jirou.... sleeps? lol
 

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About Muga, doesn't Echizen show he can control which move he can bring out when he play against Sanada and Atobe? It doesn't quite random in those match. Like how Echizen was using Sanada tech against him. Or trying to fnd a tech to beat Atobe.
 

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Wait, what?

You're all saying Chitose is a great tactician... what has he done to earn that? He only countered Tezuka because he studied Muga for a long time, not because he was a master tactician... and what does hat make Tezuka then? A dumbass that showed Kabaji every single one of his techs? I wonder why he doesn't have a 0.5 in mental then.

Kabaji has always showed to surprass his rival EVERY SINGLE TIME he manages to copy him, even freaking Tezuka (he couldn't do it to Jirou btw, inb4 you name him). Dunno why Chitose would be an exception.

Hyotei HAS chances to beat Shiten, they are around the same level. Silver pair has a better coordination than any pair in Shiten (maybe Gin would KO one of them, but that's another story), Kabaji is a monster that will copy everything that isn't a natural ability, Dirty Pair is OK (they might be better than funny pair), Atobe is... Atobe, and Jirou.... sleeps? lol
I think Saiki requires the user to have a pretty good understanding of tactics and whatnot. It's not like you just suddenly can see the future. When Chitose first used Saiki he explained why Tachibana's hits can't get over the net because he's hitting them from a bad angle. At any rate it's not like it takes a genius to figure out against a guy who unconditionally copy moves you obviously want him to copy bad moves. Even Kawamura figured this out as he used the 1hand Hado so that Kabaji would break his own wrist, so I'd think Chitose can figure this out easily.

Kabaji only seems unstoppable because he has relatively high base endurance/power, and since he can copy any technique his only weakness is speed. As we see in the Black Jacket match, anyone who is stronger than him baseline will still be stronger even after Kabaji copied their moves. You can also deal with him by simply not using any technique. Tezuka probably had a negative mental score for using moves that'd be way more useful to Kabaji than himself. That is, it's hard to imagine why Tezuka would need to use Tezuka Zone to return Kabaji's rallies, but Kabaji sure can use some extra help against Tezuka.

---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 AM ----------

About Muga, doesn't Echizen show he can control which move he can bring out when he play against Sanada and Atobe? It doesn't quite random in those match. Like how Echizen was using Sanada tech against him. Or trying to fnd a tech to beat Atobe.
I think he gains control as the match progresses. In the beginning against Sanada it sures looks like he's just using moves totally at random. I mean he was using moves from guys in St. Rudolph!
 

Hardy

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I think Saiki requires the user to have a pretty good understanding of tactics and whatnot. It's not like you just suddenly can see the future.
But, the Tezuka that was getting raped by Kabaji learned Saiki the match after that. How did he went from "moron that lets his rival copy all his moves" to "master tactician" in 1 match?

Seriously, there's nothing that makes us think that Chitose would destroy Kabaji... it all depends on the plot I guess.
 

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But, the Tezuka that was getting raped by Kabaji learned Saiki the match after that. How did he went from "moron that lets his rival copy all his moves" to "master tactician" in 1 match?

Seriously, there's nothing that makes us think that Chitose would destroy Kabaji... it all depends on the plot I guess.
Then again people thought that Tezuka knew the rain was going to come, then Fuji said we can't know that for sure.

Tezuka could have known all along that Kabaji's ability to copy was imperfect just like Fuji intuitively knew Niou's Tezuka illusion was imperfect.

Also the move Chitose knows the counters to any of the moves he uses which is how he seals Hyaruken in the first place (easily returning Kamikamushi). By knowing all of the counters to the moves he uses he has essentially beaten Kabaji.
 

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But, the Tezuka that was getting raped by Kabaji learned Saiki the match after that. How did he went from "moron that lets his rival copy all his moves" to "master tactician" in 1 match?

Seriously, there's nothing that makes us think that Chitose would destroy Kabaji... it all depends on the plot I guess.
Tezuka probably thought Hyakuren can't be copied so he was overconfident. Otherwise he'd indeed be pretty moronic to use Zone when he surely didn't actualy need it.

While the plot can justify everything, letting your opponent copy bad moves doesn't exactly require you to be a genius. Even Kawamura figured that out.

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

Then again people thought that Tezuka knew the rain was going to come, then Fuji said we can't know that for sure.

Tezuka could have known all along that Kabaji's ability to copy was imperfect just like Fuji intuitively knew Niou's Tezuka illusion was imperfect.

Also the move Chitose knows the counters to any of the moves he uses which is how he seals Hyaruken in the first place (easily returning Kamikamushi). By knowing all of the counters to the moves he uses he has essentially beaten Kabaji.
There's no way Tezuka could know the rain was coming. He just never gives up no matter what and it happened to work out that rain is advantageous to him due to his experience. Without the rain Tezuka would've hurt himself again and almost certainly still lose the game anyway, so he pretty much lucked out that game, though he only has himself to blame there. Tezuka has to be more than capable of beating Kabaji with just normal rallies.
 

Hardy

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Kawamura didn't win though...

What moves Chitose knows that can be harmful for Kabaji's health or rally? (that sentence sounds so... wrong :| )
 

Phantron

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Kawamura didn't win though...

What moves Chitose knows that can be harmful for Kabaji's health or rally? (that sentence sounds so... wrong :| )
In Chitose's case he should just start using Muga on useless moves and then counter them when Kabaji copies them, since Kabaji pretty much copies everything whether it's a good move or a bad move. I'm sure he has seen his share of weak moves throughout his games.
 

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In Chitose's case he should just start using Muga on useless moves and then counter them when Kabaji copies them, since Kabaji pretty much copies everything whether it's a good move or a bad move. I'm sure he has seen his share of weak moves throughout his games.
Then Kabaji would start copying the counters until Chitose runs out of crap to throw :oh
 

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Then Kabaji would start copying the counters until Chitose runs out of crap to throw :oh
But the lead he built up while using junk moves would be more than enough. For example in the game against St. Rudolph we see that some random player did a dropshot instead of smashing the ball. That move scored on Kabaji, and then later he copied that move to score. Now, if it was Chitose he can obviously stop that as well and score again. That gives him 2 points ahead. All he needs is to be ahead by one game and he'll win. Kabaji can eventually tie anybody but if you built up a game advantage you'll just win 6-4. He droppe 5 games against Hyakuren and I think he dropped a game against Kawamura. The only reason he made up the difference is that he is stronger than Kawamura and Tezuka physically and their techs happen to render anything else besides power irrelevent. If he copied say Kaidoh, I don't see why Kaidoh can't outlast him in his own game. As shown in the game against the high schooler if the opponent is stronger than him baseline, then Kabaji is still weaker than his opponent after copying the tech. Of course Chitose isn't going to overpower Kabaji, but he can simply use techs that have nothing to do with power. He'd still be better overall on top of being able to build a lead with junk moves at the start.
 

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I think Kabaji can copy all the moves that doesn't require a special anatomy from him. He can't copy Jirou's magic volley because he has the soft wrists, I don't think he can copy Kite's brand of Shukuchicou (sp?) either. Kite has the 'perfect balance' body. Yes, his stamina can run out too if the opponent has bigger stamina. He can't copy stamina.

Although I wonder if he can copy Atobe Kingdom/Momo's insight.
 

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Kabaji doesn't win singles matches (Its one of Konomi Sensei's unofficial rule. lol)
Although he can almost perfectly copy opponents moves he can't win a singles game. He drew against Taka-san. Lost to Jirou, Tezuka.
In episode 110 aka Jump Kabaji, He copied Eiji's acrobatic play. I don't think Kabaji's body is flexible enough to copy acrobatics. But he still copied that.
 
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-Ken-

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I don't think he can. Atobe Insight is because of his incredible eyesight.
 

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Kabaji doesn't win singles matches (Its one of Konomi Sensei's unofficial rule. lol)
Although he can almost perfectly copy opponents moves he can't win a singles game. He drew against Taka-san. Lost to Jirou, Tezuka.
In episode 110 aka Jump Kabaji, He copied Eiji's acrobatic play. I don't think Kabaji's body is flexible enough to copy acrobatics. But he still copied that.

That's the anime though. The anime has so many inconsistencies with the manga. I don't think it's a rule at all. He tied Kawamura, He was beating Tezuka. Even the match with Jirou was really close.

He would put up a good fight against Chitose but like mentioned before Chitose doesn't have to reveal any secret techniques other than Kamikamushi. It won't win points but all he has to do is drain Kabaji's stamina. After that Chitose wins.

Even if Kabaji copies Kamikamushi, Chitose will be able to return it easily (he returned kamikamushi 2x against Tezuka).
 

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Keep in mind Kabaji's ability generally has the shock factor. People in POT apparently are really shaken by the fact that the other guy can do their special moves. Tezuka obviously assumed Kabaji couldn't copy the Hyakuren since he literally has nothing that can stop his own Hyakuren. So when you have this matchup you have to ask does Chitose know about Kabaji's ability? After all Kabaji isn't really a nationally known player so it's possible Chitose doesn't even know Kabaji can copy abilities. If Chitose knows Kabaji's ability ahead of time it's pretty trivial to beat him, and in fact you can use Kabaji's ability against him since Chitose can just use weak moves on purpose with Muga.

But even if Chitose doesn't know, he's not dependent on any particular move since he has Muga. Even if Saiki can be copied, it'd stand to reason two guys with Saiki would then have to fight with their base stats. After all, Tezuka's Saiki beats Chitose's Saiki and I'm guessing that's because Tezuka has stronger base stats than Chitose.
 

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But even if Chitose doesn't know, he's not dependent on any particular move since he has Muga. Even if Saiki can be copied, it'd stand to reason two guys with Saiki would then have to fight with their base stats. After all, Tezuka's Saiki beats Chitose's Saiki and I'm guessing that's because Tezuka has stronger base stats than Chitose.
Maybe it's not all base stats but just mental strength?
 
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