Discussion Irregulars

[conn-man]

It seems like only Irregulars chosen by the tower have the real power. But why does the tower choose to bring them in? What is the tower trying to prove by doing this?

 

[ukimix]

Re: Is Baam really an irregular?

Well Baam is the true irregular since he was chosen by the tower, Rachel is more of an irregular irregular since she fell through when Baam opened the door.

I have a confusion there. According to wiki, a chosen regular (better known as Regular) is a being chosen by Headon and permitted by the Zahard Empire to climb the Tower. And an irregular is a being who enter the Tower by opening its doors. Politically, Irregulars are viewed as beings who have entered the Tower and in turn, the Inner Tower, "without being chosen by the Tower" to enter.

Then why the tower chose Baam, an irregular, to enter? That is said in some chapters, and it's also what you are saying. Are irregular chosen by the tower or not?

 

[suraj5898]

i dont think irregular r chosen by the tower .

 

[ukimix]

i dont think irregular r chosen by the tower .

First there:

Spoiler

and later when Baam arrives, he is a guest Headon was waiting for:

Spoiler

and here in Rachel's line nd in the same dialogue between her and Headon:

Spoiler

According to those chapters from the epilogue to the first volume, Baam was selected by the tower. And later it's confirmed that Baam is an irregular....

 

[Dacomp89]

Technically, regulars are chosen by Headon, who is not necessarily "the Tower." He's some sort of special guardian of the Tower, but perhaps "the Tower" itself has some sort of will. Baam most certainly opened the doors himself, but he had no idea what he was doing or even what the Tower was, so perhaps the fact that his "power" guided him to opening the doors means that he was chosen by the Tower. Rachel is an irregular because she went through the door without being chosen by Headon, but she only got through because Baam had opened the way and not for any reason that had to do with her, making her "not chosen" by the Tower.

Another interpretation is that although she entered the Tower, she doesn't have the strength to climb it, meaning she wasn't "chosen" by the Tower to be capable of fulfilling her wish. Additionally, Headon was being quite sadistic in their conversation, so I think he may have also been trying to break her spirit so that she would be willing to be a pawn in his plan.

 

[ukimix]

Technically, regulars are chosen by Headon, who is not necessarily "the Tower." He's some sort of special guardian of the Tower, but perhaps "the Tower" itself has some sort of will. Baam most certainly opened the doors himself, but he had no idea what he was doing or even what the Tower was, so perhaps the fact that his "power" guided him to opening the doors means that he was chosen by the Tower. Rachel is an irregular because she went through the door without being chosen by Headon, but she only got through because Baam had opened the way and not for any reason that had to do with her, making her "not chosen" by the Tower.

Another interpretation is that although she entered the Tower, she doesn't have the strength to climb it, meaning she wasn't "chosen" by the Tower to be capable of fulfilling her wish. Additionally, Headon was being quite sadistic in their conversation, so I think he may have also been trying to break her spirit so that she would be willing to be a pawn in his plan.

Possible. This is a point alredy unexplained by the story. SIU will have to deal with it later, I suppose. I also has thought that the tower is a being with a will. But, that's just a conjecture.

 

[TheMoa]

I get it as the tower having a own will. Headon choose regulars from the outer tower by his own standard.
The tower pick people individuals from outside that shows some kind of great hability(We could argue that baam was choose because he's a genius, he's fearless or both of them). So the irregular are chosen, but they are chosen becauses of their ability... so they open the door with their own power(the tower let them open the door).
Rachael is an irregular because she was not choosen by Headon, yet she's not a "common" regular because she went in riding baam's ticket. What bothers me most is from where she was. She had access to baam and could get in and out as she pleased, so she's from outside the tower... but she had some knowledge about the tower and wished to go there. We know that she wanted to see stars, so she's not from a common world or something like that. Maybe she was from the outer tower and she knew how to get out(as mazino wants to do)? Or the place where baam lived is some kind of annex of the tower(there was a zahard symbol there).
I think that we'll have to wait a looooong time to get this answers, probably near the end of the story

 

[abc1233]

Re: Is Baam really an irregular?

I have a confusion there. According to wiki, a chosen regular (better known as Regular) is a being chosen by Headon and permitted by the Zahard Empire to climb the Tower. And an irregular is a being who enter the Tower by opening its doors. Politically, Irregulars are viewed as beings who have entered the Tower and in turn, the Inner Tower, "without being chosen by the Tower" to enter.

Then why the tower chose Baam, an irregular, to enter? That is said in some chapters, and it's also what you are saying. Are irregular chosen by the tower or not?

The irregulars are certainly chosen by the tower (well, Rachel being the exception I guess), it's been stated numerous times. Where does it say that they are not chosen by the tower? They're not chosen by Zahard's system sure, maybe what you quoted was just said as a propaganda tactic by Zahard to turn people against the irregulars.

 

[ukimix]

Re: Is Baam really an irregular?

The irregulars are certainly chosen by the tower (well, Rachel being the exception I guess), it's been stated numerous times. Where does it say that they are not chosen by the tower? They're not chosen by Zahard's system sure, maybe what you quoted was just said as a propaganda tactic by Zahard to turn people against the irregulars.

Thanks a lot man. Your comments always help me. Where does it says it? Here:

Spoiler

Facts are:

• Princess Yuri thinks and says irregulars are not chosen by the tower. Headon doesn't contradict her in their dialogue. (Chapter 1-2)

• In their dialogue with Rachel, Headon calls Baam 'the guest'. Rachel calls Baam ' a chosen one'. (Chapter 1-77)

So, I understand your idea about the propaganda and also all wiki's use of term 'political' in the description of what is an irregular. I understand it this way: Zahard system refers to irregular as 'people not chosen by the tower', and advertise the statenment that they are not welcome and that nobody like them.

But Headon knows that the irregulars, or at least Baam has been invited (because he is the guest).

So the differences between the definition of an irregular, are not a plot hole or a mistake by SIU, but they correspond to two different ideas that the inhabitants of the tower have about the irregulars. Those difference reflects a political and internal conflict between different powers. What you think?

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

Actually there is clear evidence that Headon is a member or is allied of FUG, as this panels show:

Spoiler

At the bottom of the tower, Headon lets Rachel to be the heroine of the story (chapter 1-2), and when Rachel succesfully betraies Baam, Hya Riun, a confirmed member of FUG, congratulates her for the achievement to have became the heroine (chapter 1-77).

So some trues about irregulars could be hidden by Zahard to those inhabitants of the tower ruled by him.

 

[abc1233]

Re: Is Baam really an irregular?

Thanks a lot man. Your comments always help me. Where does it says it? Here:

Spoiler

Facts are:

• Princess Yuri thinks and says irregulars are not chosen by the tower. Headon doesn't contradict her in their dialogue. (Chapter 1-2)

• In their dialogue with Rachel, Headon calls Baam 'the guest'. Rachel calls Baam ' a chosen one'. (Chapter 1-77)

So, I understand your idea about the propaganda and also all wiki's use of term 'political' in the description of what is an irregular. I understand it this way: Zahard system refers to irregular as 'people not chosen by the tower', and advertise the statenment that they are not welcome and that nobody like them.

But Headon knows that the irregulars, or at least Baam has been invited (because he is the guest).

So the differences between the definition of an irregular, are not a plot hole or a mistake by SIU, but they correspond to two different ideas that the inhabitants of the tower have about the irregulars. Those difference reflects a political and internal conflict between different powers. What you think?

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 PM ----------

Actually there is clear evidence that Headon is a member or is allied of FUG, as this panels show:

Spoiler

At the bottom of the tower, Headon lets Rachel to be the heroine of the story (chapter 1-2), and when Rachel succesfully betraies Baam, Hya Riun, a confirmed member of FUG, congratulates her for the achievement to have became the heroine (chapter 1-77).

So some trues about irregulars could be hidden by Zahard to those inhabitants of the tower ruled by him.

Well we know that Regulars aren't chosen by the tower so Yuri's statement is false. If they were chosen by the tower then they would be able to take the guardian tests, i.e. the true tests of the tower, rather than have to progress through Zahard's system. On the other hand Irregulars are free to take guardian tests, they can use shinsoo without a contract and they are exempt from Zahard's contracts with the guardians, those facts alone should indicate that irregulars are the true chosen ones. If people found out that Zahard, who is supposedly the king of the tower, doesn't get to decide who the chosen ones of the tower are then that would destroy his reputation so this form of propaganda would make sense.

As for Headon, he clearly has a plan which involves Baam, Rachel and FUG. We can't say for sure whether he is FUG's ally, he could just be using them for his own ends.

 

[Mr. Arashi]

Uki, i think here SIU exaplains about Irregulars.

Spoiler

According SIU, if Headon doesn't choose you, then you are a Irregular, what a troll xD.

 

[ukimix]

Wow thanks a lot Ara!! I will safe that pic in my secret file of ToG essencials!

 

[Hwa Ryun]

I can't wait to see Phantaminum in action

 

[0Xellos]

I can't wait to see Phantaminum in action

I doubt that'll ever happen. In TUS, maybe, but not in TOG. You see, Phanta is an Exis, meaning he'd instapwn everyone who's not an Exis, and SIU mentioned that TOG won't be a story about Exis. SIU has enough monstrously strong chars to choose from if he wants someone to shine, though (Urek, the family head mentioned to appear and almost whichever High Ranker).
Phanta doesn't even have a role in the story other than being legendary.

 

[abc1233]

I doubt that'll ever happen. In TUS, maybe, but not in TOG. You see, Phanta is an Exis, meaning he'd instapwn everyone who's not an Exis, and SIU mentioned that TOG won't be a story about Exis. SIU has enough monstrously strong chars to choose from if he wants someone to shine, though (Urek, the family head mentioned to appear and almost whichever High Ranker).
Phanta doesn't even have a role in the story other than being legendary.

Seems a bit weird for Phanta not to be featured (at the very least in flashbacks) when someone who will most likely become a major character in the future (Urek) entered the tower because of him. Also, where did SIU say that TOG wont be a story about Exis?

 

[0Xellos]

Seems a bit weird for Phanta not to be featured (at the very least in flashbacks) when someone who will most likely become a major character in the future (Urek) entered the tower because of him. Also, where did SIU say that TOG wont be a story about Exis?

I seriously don't remember (and I'm too lazy to look it up ), but it really fixed in my mind. Because after the introduction of the concept of Exis, the first thing that came into my mind is that Baam will awaken as well, but then all other chars will become superfodder, and then the cast would have to be exchanged for Exis or Baam stop being the main char (see DBZ). I wouldn't like that, and that piece of info assured me it won't happen. But if you think about it, it makes sense.

The problem with Exis is that they're just too impossibly powerful. In fact, some excerpts from SIU's blog can be viewed as flashbacks, and I'm not saying the topic of Phanta won't be ever touched, but Urek already found out what'd happen if they fought, hence Loserek Mazino. He's like the god of TOG.

 

[abc1233]

I seriously don't remember (and I'm too lazy to look it up ), but it really fixed in my mind. Because after the introduction of the concept of Exis, the first thing that came into my mind is that Baam will awaken as well, but then all other chars will become superfodder, and then the cast would have to be exchanged for Exis or Baam stop being the main char (see DBZ). I wouldn't like that, and that piece of info assured me it won't happen. But if you think about it, it makes sense.

The problem with Exis is that they're just too impossibly powerful. In fact, some excerpts from SIU's blog can be viewed as flashbacks, and I'm not saying the topic of Phanta won't be ever touched, but Urek already found out what'd happen if they fought, hence Loserek Mazino. He's like the god of TOG.

Well if Baam does become an exis, we don't know when that would happen. If it happens towards the end of the series as he is fighting Phanta (if he fights phanta) then that wouldn't be too much of a problem. Besides, if he truly does reach the level of Zahard/Urek then everyone besides them, Phanta and Enryu will become superfodder to him anyway, exis or not.

Here is an interesting link about Exes/Phanta if anyone hasn't read it

 

[syx]

Whether Phantaminum makes an appearance or not, I don't know what would be so interesting about him in a battle. He is an Exis after all, the only known one in ToG and one of the 5 most powerful Exes in the universe. IIrc, the author stated that he can destroy the Tower in an instant. I would only like to see him in battle as a human being (flashback). As mysterious as he may be, if he ever makes an appearance in the present story (he will most likely), I hope it will be more of a story lesson, revelation or explanation about the Tower.

Irregulars like Mazino or Enryu are much more interesting, when it comes to fighting imo. Both are said to have a beautiful fighting style.

Hell, if I could choose someone to see in action right here right now, it would be Lero-Ro.

 

[TheMoa]

I don't expect Phantaminum to be involved in any kind of plot either... but I do expect to have a glimpse of him passing by/leaving the tower.
It could be like how Mazino was introduced(without the fight), in a sense that some characters just happen to pass by him and everyone will be like "zomg that was phantaminum!"

 

[shaheer]

I don't expect Phantaminum to be involved in any kind of plot either... but I do expect to have a glimpse of him passing by/leaving the tower.
It could be like how Mazino was introduced(without the fight), in a sense that some characters just happen to pass by him and everyone will be like "zomg that was phantaminum!"

IF TOG is restricted to the Tower purpose only and up to the explored portion then yes i think so too but if for some reason it takes some swipe at the outside world or to the unexplored areas then i think phantaminum will play a role minor or major