Discussion King Zahard discussion

[cash2088]

It’s is on record and my statement stands as written initially.

For you to ask why he can’t teleport to kill Baam and my response being he can’t just kill regulars as they are protected...

In that instance you could have said: Well I don’t believe he is protected by the rules or admins.

Instead

You pushed the question further asking “Why can’t he move” if I didn’t distinguish “moving“ from the initial question of “why can’t he warp to Baam and face him directly” I apologize I hadn’t realized the connotation shifted.

But the fact remains I stated my claim and even responded to you without claiming “he’s stuck on his floor” as you admit it was you who first posed the question such, not I.

You didn’t find the ancient rules of Rankers interacting with Regulars sufficient, ok. But at some point you harped on “not being able to move” and Thought it was worth contesting, never realizing it wasn’t my thought.

So whether it went back and forth from there with me not bothering to correct it isn’t very relevant now is it?

You have admitted there’s a restriction.
Admitted that an admin restriction is possible (To Toil)
Admitted the data floor isn’t an actual floor.

All things as I brought them up were not sufficient, the record shows this bro...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Just answer these THREE pointed questions:

Do you admit Zahard is free to travel from floor to floor just as free as any other ranker?

Do you admit that Zahard should be able to do what any other ranker in a non-restricted area can do, to include fight regulars? Put another way, what would have kept Zahard from facing Baam at the final station just like Kallavan did (one of many examples, but run with that one)?

How do you reconcile Zahard had already killed a being born in the tower without recourse on a floor other than 134F? Subquestion, why does Baam not get the same treatment of protection from rankers as someone in the tower that hasn't yet ranked?

 

[cash2088]

It’s is on record and my statement stands as written initially.

For you to ask why he can’t teleport to kill Baam and my response being he can’t just kill regulars as they are protected...

In that instance you could have said: Well I don’t believe he is protected by the rules or admins.

Instead

You pushed the question further asking “Why can’t he move” if I didn’t distinguish “moving“ from the initial question of “why can’t he warp to Baam and face him directly” I apologize I hadn’t realized the connotation shifted.

But the fact remains I stated my claim and even responded to you without claiming “he’s stuck on his floor” as you admit it was you who first posed the question such, not I.

You didn’t find the ancient rules of Rankers interacting with Regulars sufficient, ok. But at some point you harped on “not being able to move” and Thought it was worth contesting, never realizing it wasn’t my thought.

So whether it went back and forth from there with me not bothering to correct it isn’t very relevant now is it?

You have admitted there’s a restriction.
Admitted that an admin restriction is possible (To Toil)
Admitted the data floor isn’t an actual floor.

All things as I brought them up were not sufficient, the record shows this bro...

It is implicit I mean to attack regulars and that would be noted if you acknowledged it in the initial post...

You’re going to say because I responded to your asking “why can’t he move” that’s what I initially meant? If not, stop debating and just agree it wasn’t my statement in the first or second post. To which we were hashing our our disagreements.

Because you took it to mean something doesn’t mean I changed my point..

Show me where he moves around freely (to attack regulars) As it was my initial position they are protected as regulars.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Just answer these THREE pointed questions:

Do you admit Zahard is free to travel from floor to floor just as free as any other ranker?

Do you admit that Zahard should be able to do what any other ranker in a non-restricted area can do, to include fight regulars? Put another way, what would have kept Zahard from facing Baam at the final station just like Kallavan did (one of many examples, but run with that one)?

How do you reconcile Zahard had already killed a being born in the tower without recourse on a floor other than 134F? Subquestion, why does Baam not get the same treatment of protection from any other person that isn't a ranker but born on a floor from rankers?

If not to attack regulars.

Zahard not showing up at the station indicates he could not. As he had just projected himself onto the data floor and issued orders to his army subsequently.

I’ve stated, he was not chosen. There is no stipulation because you are born in the tower you are protected by admins. It has been noted you get admin protection as a regular CLIMBING the tower....

I had answered these already.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

You’ll ask what differentiates Any ranker from Zahard... One he’s king you don’t know why admins would be watching his moves but a being wielding such power in the tower is ripe for undue influence in great magnitudes.

He could NEVER have another regular climb the tower if he chose and had unregulated power. You see why admins would enforce certain restrictions

No, we know he conforms to tower rules and admins dominate the floors, Zahard is a king to the people he doesn’t have unlimited range over the tower. Which is why SIU said Zahard could NEVER kill an admin.

But ok I’m done with this debate....


Changing topics... Have we been thinking about this wrong? We have always viewed this story from the perspective that Zahard is immortal and Baam is his only threat. But Baam is a revived being, Can he actually die die? (Yes I know)

What if Zahard is Baam’s only threat? It wouldn’t be something SIU would reveal because it’d ruin the story. Even though most MC’s are effectively immortal. So Zahard being Baam’s only threat would change some dynamics. I am just skeptical that a god would revive a being who could die again.....

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Please answer the questions.

So to be clear on 1: Zahard is free to move just like any other ranker? No contingencies - that's a Y or N question.

On 2: Can Zahard do what any other ranker can do to include repeating their actions in non-restricted floors? Literally Y or N.

On 3. Where is the distinction made between someone climbing the tower being protected from rankers and someone just born in the tower (i.e. a defacto non-ranker) not being under the same protection?

I can't believe I have to draw this out for you.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

annnddddd the 'once he's king' argument. Soooo, you're back to him not being able to do what other rankers can do - i.e., he's more limited.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've now gone full-circle several times over.

 

[cash2088]

Please answer the questions.

So to be clear on 1: Zahard is free to move just like any other ranker? No contingencies - that's a Y or N question.

On 2: Can Zahard do what any other ranker can do to include repeating their actions in non-restricted floors? Literally Y or N.

On 3. Where is the distinction made between someone climbing the tower being protected from rankers and someone just born in the tower (i.e. a defacto non-ranker) not being under the same protection?

I can't believe I have to draw this out for you.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

annnddddd the 'once he's king' argument. Soooo, you're back to him not being able to do what other rankers can do - i.e., he's more limited.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've now gone full-circle several times over.

Because he is watched doesn’t mean he is more restricted. They have the same restrictions... Because some get away with breaking the rules the King should be able to too?

That isn’t a great argument.

And I was clear. I won’t be shoehorned into answering an open ended question with yes or no. “Mr. Lawyer”

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Please answer the questions:

1 y or n
2 y or n
3 where is the distinction made?

 

[cash2088]

So you can try and prove your point... Fact is there are rules... Everybody is subject... The same way murder is a crime yet you believe the king should be able to? Even though he’s watched not only by the public, parliament etc...

This is a reality. A king may have privileges but don’t try to extend them passed what they are.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Please answer the questions:

1 y or n
2 y or n
3 where is the distinction made?

Already have....

Within the rules of the tower.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

So, you agree that Zahard can do anything else that any other ranker can do? I asked for a yes or no, and you found ANY OTHER WAY to answer it... are you secretly my wife?

You still haven't explained where the distinction you're making in #3 came from either.

 

[cash2088]

If Zahard has a self imposed ban on attacking Baam why not the other Regulars??

If he is “healing” he would be unable to move This was a point you made... One which I don’t agree with as we have had no indication Zahard was wounded.

So, you agree that Zahard can do anything else that any other ranker can do? I asked for a yes or no, and you found ANY OTHER WAY to answer it... are you secretly my wife?

You still haven't explained where the distinction you're making in #3 came from either.

Distinction 3 came from the Ranker page I linked you to (must’ve not checked it)

And you asking in a manner that befits your supposition is a blatant ploy, why would I answer it in a manner wholly inconsistent with my initial argument.

That being: He can’t attack regulars

So asking without restriction is modifier that makes the question irrelevant.

Can he move, yes.
Unrestricted, no.

To which even you have said... So what are you refuting? You have stated he is restricted in attacking Baam (which is clear)... Only you don’t believe it to be admin imposed...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

OK, he can leave his floor. Interesting.

So, he can enter any area any other ranker can, right?

Asking very basic questions in a polite manner is a ploy?

 

[cash2088]

OK, he can leave his floor. Interesting.

So, he can enter any area any other ranker can, right?

Asking very basic questions in a polite manner is a ploy?

No asking a very specific question to get a very specific answer is...

Pretty sure I explained why I wasn’t answering in the manner you wished.

Anywhere while adhering to the “not interacting with regulars” bit...

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Yup, looked at the link. It says nothing about children being born in the tower (non-rankers) not enjoying protection from rankers. Perhaps I missed it - could you be so kind as to quote the portion in the wiki that makes the distinction you allude to in 'answering' my third question?

 

[cash2088]

Rankers and High Rankers are actually forbidden from associating with Regulars. Of course, FUG is a random bunch so they don't care about the rules.[11]

Once someone is selected as a Regular, the family can live well for generations.[14]

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Meaning regulars as they are referred to in the inner tower are chosen.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

It is not a birth status

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

No asking a very specific question to get a very specific answer is...

Pretty sure I explained why I wasn’t answering in the manner you wished.

Anywhere while adhering to the “not interacting with regulars” bit...

OK, so now we know you agree Zahard could freely travel AND could go anywhere any other ranker could go.

So:

1. WHY couldn't Zahard do what Kallavan did? WHY was Kallavan allowed to do so?
2. WHERE are you getting the 'not interacting with regulars' bit? You are familiar that the wiki cites a source that is talking about rankers in the REGULARS AREA aren't you? Wait, do you know that there is indeed an area on the floor called such a thing and that it can be left to an unrestricted area where rankers can be, no?

 

[cash2088]

In the current political system, Headon, Guardian of the 1st Floor, visits several parts of the Tower to select those who have potential to climb the Tower [1].

Headon travels throughout the Floors of the Tower and selects people that catch his eye; these selected people are then classed as Regulars. Regulars begin at Evankhell's Floor and climb the Tower from there. Once they have passed the 20th Floor, they receive benefits and may live in the Middle Area, between the Inner and Outer Tower areas. Since regulars climb the tower without their family they never get to see their family again, unless they are a member of the Ten Families.[2]

Regulars begin at the Second Floor and proceed to climb the Tower from there. [3]

Did ya really though?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Rankers and High Rankers are actually forbidden from associating with Regulars. Of course, FUG is a random bunch so they don't care about the rules.[11]

Once someone is selected as a Regular, the family can live well for generations.[14]

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Meaning regulars as they are referred to in the inner tower are chosen.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

It is not a birth status

That quote literally has NOTHING to do with beings born in the tower. Can you please quote the source that distinguishes those born in the tower and chosen regulars from having different protection from rankers?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

In the current political system, Headon, Guardian of the 1st Floor, visits several parts of the Tower to select those who have potential to climb the Tower [1].

Headon travels throughout the Floors of the Tower and selects people that catch his eye; these selected people are then classed as Regulars. Regulars begin at Evankhell's Floor and climb the Tower from there. Once they have passed the 20th Floor, they receive benefits and may live in the Middle Area, between the Inner and Outer Tower areas. Since regulars climb the tower without their family they never get to see their family again, unless they are a member of the Ten Families.[2]

Regulars begin at the Second Floor and proceed to climb the Tower from there. [3]

Did ya really though?

I must be blind - where is the part about those born in the tower to regulars?

 

[cash2088]

OK, so now we know you agree Zahard could freely travel AND could go anywhere any other ranker could go.

So:

1. WHY couldn't Zahard do what Kallavan did? WHY was Kallavan allowed to do so?
2. WHERE are you getting the 'not interacting with regulars' bit? You are familiar that the wiki cites a source that is talking about rankers in the REGULARS AREA aren't you? Wait, do you know that there is indeed an area on the floor called such a thing and that it can be left to an unrestricted area where rankers can be, no?

That quote literally has NOTHING to do with beings born in the tower. Can you please quote the source that distinguishes those born in the tower and chosen regulars from having different protection from rankers?

In order to climb the tower you need to be chosen, Unless you open the door yourself. this isn’t up for debate. Baam was in the tower when he was in that cave, Rachel was in the tower.

They just weren’t climbing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

So babies are chosen by headon as regulars climbing the tower?

Is playing ignorant supposed to change that?

It says they can’t interact. You can’t really argue that so you add, regular and restricted areas... Yeah okay.

Secondly, once you are chosen you are a regular.

Instead of me showing you, how about you show me where it shows no differentiation? Since it makes a point to distinguish climbing and non climbing.

Chosen and unchosen...

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

“They are also protected under the Tower's Rules upon entering the Inner Tower and in turn, are expected to abide by a set of the Tower's Rules in exchange for this set of rights.”

That’s just wiki though not true...?

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I'm sorry, I think you missed these questions. Please answer, as they are relevant. Thanks!

OK, so now we know you agree Zahard could freely travel AND could go anywhere any other ranker could go.

So:

1. WHY couldn't Zahard do what Kallavan did? WHY was Kallavan allowed to do so?
2. WHERE are you getting the 'not interacting with regulars' bit? You are familiar that the wiki cites a source that is talking about rankers in the REGULARS AREA aren't you? Wait, do you know that there is indeed an area on the floor called such a thing and that it can be left to an unrestricted area where rankers can be, no?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Oh, and are you aware of the middle area:

"Both Regulars and Rankers can live in the Middle Area, however, Regulars only earn the right of living there by themselves or with their family members once they reach 20th Floor;.[1] Those who have permission to operate businesses in the Middle Area are also allowed to stay in or enter the Middle Area. Sometimes, there are thieves who target the businesses and Serena Rinnen previously belonged to a group of thieves who targeted merchants transporting goods from the Outer Tower.[10] Childbirth, in general, is forbidden within the Middle Area, so many illegitimate children are born and abandoned there; some Rankers affiliated with Special Families are given permission.[11]"

It would seem to me the story certainly has included places where rankers CAN'T interact with tower rankers, places where they can, don't you think?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

I'm still waiting on a source that differentiates those born in the tower from not having protection though. Both in the Middle and Inner areas (and the residential portion of the tower). In case you're wondering this hasn't been addressed. Thanks!

 

[cash2088]

I'm sorry, I think you missed these questions. Please answer, as they are relevant. Thanks!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Oh, and are you aware of the middle area:

"Both Regulars and Rankers can live in the Middle Area, however, Regulars only earn the right of living there by themselves or with their family members once they reach 20th Floor;.[1] Those who have permission to operate businesses in the Middle Area are also allowed to stay in or enter the Middle Area. Sometimes, there are thieves who target the businesses and Serena Rinnen previously belonged to a group of thieves who targeted merchants transporting goods from the Outer Tower.[10] Childbirth, in general, is forbidden within the Middle Area, so many illegitimate children are born and abandoned there; some Rankers affiliated with Special Families are given permission.[11]"

It would seem to me the story certainly has included places where rankers CAN'T interact with tower rankers, places where they can, don't you think?

So Zahard shoulda got him on the 20th floor.,.

So you agree this exception needs to be made because the rules would otherwise not allow it? Right?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

I'm sorry, I think you missed these questions. Please answer, as they are relevant. Thanks!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 20, 2020 ---

Oh, and are you aware of the middle area:

"Both Regulars and Rankers can live in the Middle Area, however, Regulars only earn the right of living there by themselves or with their family members once they reach 20th Floor;.[1] Those who have permission to operate businesses in the Middle Area are also allowed to stay in or enter the Middle Area. Sometimes, there are thieves who target the businesses and Serena Rinnen previously belonged to a group of thieves who targeted merchants transporting goods from the Outer Tower.[10] Childbirth, in general, is forbidden within the Middle Area, so many illegitimate children are born and abandoned there; some Rankers affiliated with Special Families are given permission.[11]"

It would seem to me the story certainly has included places where rankers CAN'T interact with tower rankers, places where they can, don't you think?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

I'm still waiting on a source that differentiates those born in the tower from not having protection though. Both in the Middle and Inner areas (and the residential portion of the tower). In case you're wondering this hasn't been addressed. Thanks!

Stop writing and look up....

Gain protection upon entering the inner tower... Being chosen!!!!

Just read, man.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

So Zahard shoulda got him on the 20th floor.,.

So you agree this exception needs to be made because the rules would otherwise not allow it? Right?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 20, 2020 ---

Stop writing and look up....

Gain protection upon entering the inner tower... Being chosen!!!!

Just read, man.

So Zahard is inept?

Please answer my questions. They are relevant. I'm asking for a source. If you don't have one that is fine. Please just say so.