Discussion Kurapika

[MegamanX195]

I was just re-reading that part, and the arm-breaking attack in the fight was the Big Bang Impact. How did Kurapika tank that? Was Chain Jail already activated and the strenght was lower? Did he focus less aura than usual?

Well, I've came up with 2 possible explanations: A) Kurapika used Ko (unlikely, and even if he did I doubt he would be able to defend Big Bang Impact with just a broken arm) or B) Chain Jail's power was starting to take effect (More likely explanation. It was never stated Chain Jail's Zetsu effect was instantaneous, so it's probable that Uboh was already starting to enter Zetsu, and that Big Bang Impact was one Big Bang Impact of a much less powerful Uvougin).

 

[Zvane]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

Since it was during Emperor's Time, he could also use Reinforcement at 100%, so he used a defense equal to the impact...it did broke his arm though

 

[MegamanX195]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

But, when Kurapika explained Emperor Time to Gon, he explained it using Levels, Force and Accuracy. He said that, if his Conjuration was Level 10, his Transformation Level 8, Reinforcement Level 6, and Emission Level 4, he could only, for example, use Emission Level 4 with 40% Force and Accuracy, but with Emperor Time, he could use it at 100%, though it's still Level 4.

With that, Kurapika's Reinforcement was Level 6 and, during Emperor Time, he could use it with 100% instead of 60%. Uvougin would probably be Level 10 with 100%, so it's pretty unbeliavable a 100% Level 6 could take a 100% Level 10 Hatsu and only break an arm.

 

[Tame]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I always find the Levels vs Force & Accuracy really confusing; maybe I'm just dense. Yeah, I find this part of the fight slightly unbeliavable too. Even if Kurapika was using Enhancement at 100% efficiency for his level, I'm sure Uvogin's levels are much higher than his.

My explanation would have to be either a) Big Bang Impact wasn't at full power or b) Kurapika used Ko or a powerful Gyo. Or, as I believe to be the case, both.

 

[Uriel]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

It was probably a combination between basic defense (Kou) and Emperor Time allowing him to fully take advantage of that defense.

 

[MegamanX195]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I was going to use Gon VS Gensuru as an example of why Ubo's attack should have dealt more damage to Kurapika, but things aren't really the same. The angle of the attack is totally different in Gon's Rock to Gensuru's chest compared to Ubo's Big Bang to Kurapika's arm. The attack hit Kurapika in a way that only the arm was really hit (and Ubo even mentioned it was supposed to shatter his spine, too), while Gon's rock was straight to Gensuru's chest. Also, I never had thought about it before, but it's probable Gensuru used Ko to defend himself(survive) from Gon's Rock, increasing the possiblity of it being the same case with Kurapika.

It's weird how Kurapika knew Ko but told Gon that he did the same Gon did (Ten and Ren everyday, apart from chain training)... but maybe he thought it was something so obvious that he didn't tell them or something? Even if it was a very strong Gyo, it would be quite a feat for Kurapika to be able to control his aura so easily when it took quite a while for Gon and Killua to get used to it. Maybe it was easy to do because of Emperor Time? It was shown to increase all attributes, after all.

All of that begs another question though: Why didn't Kurapika activate Chain Jail's effect before? He wanted to test Ubo's full power? That's the only possiblity I see, since Kurapika isn't the type to fool around.

 

[hgfdsahjkl]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

we discussed that one alot,it's a plot hole,megaman

 

[NoFreakingWay]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

Take a look at the equation again:

(AP + SP) - (DP + SP)

AP = Attack Points (Ubo's physical condition)
DP = Defense Points (Kurapika's physical condition)
SP = Sens Points (The combatants' Reinforcement Levels)

AP and DP are exactly what Biscuit taught Killua during the Chimera Ant arc. They're a person's overall fighting capacity. This determines how Person B (who has lower POP) could beat Person A (who has higher POP than B), assuming A is in a worse physical condition. This was also the number Morau was considering before they assaulted Meat Garden. He was thinking "Am I at 40%...?", or something along those lines.

In the equation used by Kurapika's master, he was assuming both combatants were at their best physical condition. Thus, we both get 100.

The reality is that Kurapika was most probably nearer to 100 DP than Ubo was nearer to 100 AP.

Ubo just fought the Injuu and was slightly tortured by Dartson and Kurapika when he was caught. He was not at 100 DP.

Additionally, Ubo's Big Bang Impact may not have involved "Mystery Points". Maybe it was just Kou when a Reinforcement user is at Level 10.

Emperor Time added Mystery Points to the "(DP + SP)" part of the equation so that he could tank BBI better by reaching Level 6 at Reinforcement.

In short, what may have caused Kurapika to tank BBI is:

1.) Ubo was not at 100% physical condition
2.) Ubo's BBI may not have had Mystery Points with it
3.) Kurapika reached Level 6 at Reinforcement with Emperor Time

There is no plot hole there.

 

[MegamanX195]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I agree with points 1 and 3, but about 2, why wouldn't Ubo's BBI have Mystery Points? I mean, it's a Hatsu like any other. And why didn't Kurapika activate Chain Jail's effect earlier?

 

[NoFreakingWay]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I agree with points 1 and 3, but about 2, why wouldn't Ubo's BBI have Mystery Points? I mean, it's a Hatsu like any other. And why didn't Kurapika activate Chain Jail's effect earlier?

Not all Hatsus have Mystery Points.

In GI, Gon was trained by Biscuit to fire an Emission ball. The one that didn't get far and farted out of existence in seconds? That is a Hatsu already. That doesn't have Mystery Points embedded in it. Why? There weren't any special conditions or restrictions attached to it. Gon just fired it, is all. This is probably the same phenomenon for Ubo's BBI. It doesn't have anything special to it. That's even mentioned in that big page illustrating him in a fighting pose, which explained his ability (almost every guy from the Ryodan had this page, except Bonorenolf, I think).

Contrast it to Franklin's Double Machine Gun. That is a Hatsu that has Mystery Points in it. Franklin cut his fingers to give the Hatsu the following Mystery Points. For a Reinforcement example, Phinx's Ripper Cyclotron has Mystery Points in it. Those Points were gotten from the number of spins he did before the punch.

EDIT: Also note that Ubo did not pepper Kurapika with BBIs. If Ubo did he'd probably have won.

 

[MegamanX195]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I suppose that all makes sense... but I'm still not completely sure why didn't Kurapika activate Chain Jail's Zetsu effect before. I guess he wanted to test Ubo's full power?

 

[NoFreakingWay]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I suppose that all makes sense... but I'm still not completely sure why didn't Kurapika activate Chain Jail's Zetsu effect before. I guess he wanted to test Ubo's full power?

That's another story I'm not confident I would be able to answer satisfactorily. I think Chain Jail was already in effect when Ubo got caught. Or else he would have been able to free himself. Chain Jail might have also been in effect when Ubo was being interrogated. But I think when Kurapika left, that's the time they just used normal chains on Ubo, assuming Ubo would think he wouldn't be able to break through since he couldn't the first time. That's kinda stupid though.

I'm not sure - does Chain Jail Zetsu only work in Red-Eyes mode? If yes, the Kurapika might have rested his eyes into normal eyes mode when he was away. That's when Ubo was rescued and got free of his chains - which are either normal chains or Kurapika chains without the Chain Jail Zetsu.

 

[MegamanX195]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

No, no, I didn't mean on that occasion. On that time Ubo's body was still paralyzed and that's why he couldn't break free, Kurapika didn't even have to use the effect.

I meant during the fight. Didn't Kurapika say he already had the chain wrapped in Ubo? Then why did he only "activate" it after he took the BBI? Or did he only attach Chain Jail during BBI? Though that would bring us to the question of why didn't he attach it earlier...

 

[TheAmericandream]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I thought the reason was Kurapika wanted to test limits of Uvogins strength? See how well emperors time worked, suicidal as that may have been. The other theory that he didn't attach the chain till after BBI also makes sense to me.

 

[Zvane]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

I thought the reason was Kurapika wanted to test limits of Uvogins strength? See how well emperors time worked, suicidal as that may have been. The other theory that he didn't attach the chain till after BBI also makes sense to me.

now that I think about it, he wasn't sure if Chain Jail (only breakable by brute force, since it renders the target into a state of Zetzu) was going to work, so he tested it with Uvogin....plus, Uvo was a skilled fighter, so I'm guessing Kurapica couldn't chain him before

 

[Noonealive]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

Yeah Kurapika wanted to test if the strongest guy aka Uvogin, was capable of breaking his chain at 100%. Thats why during the whole fight Kurapika told him stop being a bitch and go to full power.

 

[Sea Hunter]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

now that I think about it, he wasn't sure if Chain Jail (only breakable by brute force, since it renders the target into a state of Zetzu) was going to work, so he tested it with Uvogin....plus, Uvo was a skilled fighter, so I'm guessing Kurapica couldn't chain him before

This is correct, Kurapica tried many times during their fight but Ubogin kept dodging saying to himself "this chain is bad i can't let myself get caught in it" , the moment Kurapica took BBI he used In on his chain and cought Ubo, add to that Kurapica wanted to fight Ubo at full force to test his Emperor Time meaning his offence and defence vs a full Reinforcement user.

So no the chain wasn't on Ubo before, the moment Kurapica wrapped it around Ubo he activated it.

 

[Phantron]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

Breaking an arm isn't the same as defending successfully. If he didn't have the healing powers that would pretty much be game over there.

Even in Emperor Time, because Kurapika's isn't a Reinforcement type naturally, he cannot be have as much power as Ubogin. There's nothing wrong with that scene. If you've two Reinforcement user it'd end up both doing no damage to each other. Kurapika clearly took damage. The fact he healed the damage later does not mean he didn't take damage.

Also in the middle of that fight there was no opportunity for Kurapika to hide his chain anyway (it'd be way too suspicious). When Ubogin punched the ground to camoflauge himself, that also allowed Kurapika to hide his chains too.

If you look at the numbers, basically Kurapika is 60% * 100% = 60%, which is pretty close to the modifier you get for being a Transform/Emission user (80% * 80% = 64%). You can actually verify 100% versus 64% does turn into 'breaking an arm' in the Razor arc. From that fight, we can tell the following:

Gon's full output is roughly equal to Razor's full output.

Hisoka is certainly no weaker than Gon in base power, so you can basically think of Razor versus Hisoka as one person with a modifier of 100% (Razor) versus 64% (Hisoka).

Hisoka cannot guard against Razor's attack head on. Even when he deflect it with his special ability, he ends up breaking several fingers. Presumably he'd take even more damage if he didn't deflect Razor's attacks, and breaking an arm seems like the logical step up from breaking fingers.

Another good example is Gon versus Knuckles (Emission). Knuckles again is certainly no weaker than Gon in base power, but a direct hit, even guarded correctly, still knocked him out.

So Reinforcement against an equal opponent that's one away from Reinforcement pretty much results in serious damage for the opponent, even if they guarded correctly. That's why Reinforcement is pretty much the strongest school for fighting. Note that if you're more than 1 away, it's quite likely taking a hit just flat out kills you. Now how do you defeat a Reinforcement if you're not one? By making the guy take more damage through some other special ability compared to your broken arm. It's okay to lose an arm if the opponent loses his head, for example.

 

[Sea Hunter]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

Well if you're not a Reinforcement user and fighting against one it's best to stay away in all cases, most non Reinforcement fighters we've seen have long ranged attacks / Hatsus so no even if your Reinforcement in 1 away it's best you don't try and tank an attack unless you're forced to..

 

[Uriel]

Re: How did Kurapika tank Uvogin's Big Bang Impact?

Or unless you're crazy and want a revenge on some organization that killed or your tribe. :O