Fantasy Laxus vs Gray

[Ratrace]

Since when does proving someone wrong mean anything? Natsu wanted to prove himself to Igneel by beating Mard Geer yet still got slapped around in the end. He only proved that he could oneshot Neinheart who has terrible durability showings lol. There was nothing indicating that he more powerful than before. Natsu vs Neinheart could be replicated by Alvarez or Current Natsu at any time lol.
She enlarged his tumour back to what it was. She could have enlarged his brain to bust. Either way he wasn't invincible nor boosted by PoF. If he wanted to prove her statement wrong then he would have beaten her right then and there.

What was Natsu and Brandish arguing about before and during the fight against Neinhart
She wasn’t trying to kill them, she enlarged the tumor because she already knew it was giving him problems before

 

[Jko]

What was Natsu and Brandish arguing about before and during the fight against Neinhart
She wasn’t trying to kill them, she enlarged the tumor because she already knew it was giving him problems before

They were arguing about FT odds in winning the war. Not seeing how that has anything to do with Natsu oneshotting Neinheart.

The point is that she could have down him without the use of the tumour.

 

[grey matter]

That literally does not matter at all as only Neinheart went down to basic punches from Natsu. If Natsu was so clearly hyped on PoF sauce, he wouldn't have been insta KOed by Brandish two seconds afterwards. So the whole he was unbeatable in that moment argument is just false as Natsu was beaten two seconds later. Natsu just straight up wrecked Neinheart lol.


Laxus solo entirity of Raven Tail with only a couple scratches, actual beat Jura, basically oneshotted a 9D, took down Wall while sick then KOed Hades while heavily injured and fought Erza to a stalemate.

Jellal on the other could have maybe beaten Jura with his strongest attack (needed his strongest attack to even significantly damage him). Then Jellal goes on to get beat up by OS, barely beat OS with his two strongest spells back to back, got oneshotted by Neinheart, needed a charged GC to beat Neinheart while he had no Historia to protect himself, got beat up by Gears (God Seeds bar Aldo have fodder level stats) and need Ultear's help to beat him.

Please tell me where their feats are even remotely comparable?

His magical power was never S12 level. Literally no character has commented to his MP being absurdly high lol. Neinheart was only surprised by the type of magic he had not his magic power lol.

Growth rate is judged by feats just like PL is judged by feats. The author ofc has free reign to make anyone as powerful as he wants by giving them feats. He hasn't done so for Jellal or Juvia in over a decade therefore their growth rate is garbage in comparison. It is a completely valid argument to be made.

There is no tangible portrayal that Laxus and Jellal are even remotely comparable. There was more evidence that Mira and Laxus were hype to be the same level based off "portrayal" this arc then Laxus and Jellal. What was this so called portrayal Jellal had this arc? Get dissed by Natsu then by Juvia and not being considered that weak by Laxus? A stare down is meaningless as shown when Sting stared down Natsu and then got utterly demolished by him with his boy, Rogue. Laxus and Jellal aren't portrayed at the same level and the characters themselves know this lol.

Brandish manhandle Base Natsu to the point he couldn't overpower her and when Base Natsu is overpowered in physicals that means his regular fire fist isn't going to cut it as shown in the Jacob fight lol. Only reason Neinheart went down bcs his physicals were trash. Even the knight dude that Lucy was capable of blowing back in Dragon Cry had better tank feats than Neinheart as he could actually withstand a blow from Base Natsu's FD level attack. Like I said above, Natsu wasn't in some hyped up unbeatable PoF mode. He lost two seconds afterwards to Brandish. So again the only won was bcs his FD level attacks were capable of oneshotting Neinheart. It had zero to do with PoF or hype.

sh

Beating Raven Tail means nothing, they're all fodders. Laxus's impressive feat is beating Jura, the raid boss of GMG.
Jellol was doing pretty well against Jura, they were having an pretty even match. Clearly, the indication of that fight was Jellol is Jura tier, and would've edged him out if the fight had continued. If anything, back during GMG days, it was Laxus who had to prove himself that he was Jura level. Makarov was fairly confident of Jellol's chances of defeating Jura, while he was worried about Laxus.
Yea, he stomped a Demon Gate, why won't Jellol be able to replicate it?
OS isn't some weaklings. Corba and Midnight are both above pre 2nd origin Erza level. Jellol got beat up by OS until he decided to use HBM. The moment he used meteor, he blitzed all of them, prompting Midnight to use nightmare. His fight against OS is pretty good feat for him.
He one shotted Neinhart and Gears regardless. He needed Ultear only for mental support, the guy was held down by his guilt. The moment he got over it, he used thought projection and countered Gears. We don't know if Gears have fodder stats, or whether Jellol has high offense, Gears has no other feats.

Did I say they were comparable? No? They have different feats which don't allow comparisons, I said that earlier itself. All I said was that Jellol lacking drawn out fight don't make him weak. He one shotted both his opponents.

Yea no. You think Neinhart is gonna get worried if he sees an unknown type magic of weak magic power? Of course not. He was worried because he sensed high MP from Jellol and knew he was about to get fucked. You're just reaching at this point.
I'm not even gonna bother addressing your Neinhart "one shot" anymore. You're gonna keep claiming this, even tho Jellol took no damage from the attack and got knocked out only because of drowning.

Juvia, yes. Jellol, no. He has clearly given Jellol feats that are relevant. He took one shotted a Spriggan and a God seed. He did stuff against Acno as well. In fact, he outperformed whatever Eileen showed against Acno. But you praise Eileen for those feats, while completely disregard Jellol doing the same and more to Acno. It's clear why.
His bind snake immobilized Erza, and she had to play him to get out of it. She would've just brute forced out of it, if Jellol was a tier below Erza.
It's not just a staredown, it's Laxus then admitting that if they fought, it wouldn't end well for either of them. i.e both are gonna get beaten up. They are considered around same level by Mashima, which was why he teased their fight multiple times in the series. This has precedence from GMG as well.
Mira has no portrayal with Laxus, wtf? Laxus took down Jura, someone who she admitted was far above her level. She USED to have portrayal with Erza, which basically shattered by Tartarus arc.
Natsu dissed him, because Mashima was trolling Jellol with clown persona and had him tied up. Which was why the panel immediately went to tied up clown Jellol.

Yea, when Natsu calmed down after knocking out Neinhart and was caught off guard. He considered Brandish an ally, or at least no an adversary, and didn't expect her to turn on him. If he was on guard and powered up, Brandish won't be able to do jack to him.
Natsu didn't use the same attacks against Jacob. He was severely holding back within guild halls, even in his base. Same 2 attacks would knock out Jacob too. Yea, Neinhart's physicals are trash relative to his MP, so is the case for quite a few Spriggans. Among regular Spriggans, only Wahl and Ajeel have decent stats.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 23, 2020 ---

@Axiomus
What is your take on Jellol's power?

 

[Axiomus]

@Axiomus
What is your take on Jellol's power?

What about it? Haven't been following the convo. I have him on Erza and Laxus' level. I rank Grand Chariot around that of other attacks that have taken down Spriggans, and below that of attacks that have killed Spriggans. Sema should be stronger, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Ratrace]

They were arguing about FT odds in winning the war. Not seeing how that has anything to do with Natsu oneshotting Neinheart.

The point is that she could have down him without the use of the tumour.

Because it was so happening during the oneshot as well. (It was to show that FT mostly Natsu was more than capable in winning against a Spriggans)

That’s debatable but okay

 

[Ramen]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that GM will just revert back to Ax as if the latter is Mashima himself?

Whatever Ax says is the truth.

 

[grey matter]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that GM will just revert back to Ax as if the latter is Mashima himself?

Whatever Ax says is the truth.

I find him the most unbaised guy around here, and respect him a lot. Even if I disagree with him, I can see where he's coming from.

And no, I don't take what he says as truth, I disagree with him on many stuff. I just want to see his take on the topic

 

[Sevently]

Gray never surpassed Laxus and it will never happen.

 

[Loke]

Yea no. You think Neinhart is gonna get worried if he sees an unknown type magic of weak magic power? Of course not. He was worried because he sensed high MP from Jellol and knew he was about to get fucked. You're just reaching at this point.
I'm not even gonna bother addressing your Neinhart "one shot" anymore. You're gonna keep claiming this, even tho Jellol took no damage from the attack and got knocked out only because of drowning.

Neinhart literally never comments on Jellal's magic power, he simply questioned the nature of it. This reminds me of when people were blowing up over the spoilers thinking Neinhart was afraid of Jellal when in actuality it was Erza he was shitting bricks over. In any case, Jellal did not drown unless you can post scans of him struggling to breathe under water. I don't know why this headcanon is even still a thing. Just as Jellal knocked him out cold, Neinhart did the same albeit more casually. It should also be noted that Jellal performed a GC with killing intent and could not kill an average Spriggan unlike a certain lightning chad.

OT: Laxus easily. Laxus doesn't need to scale to Erza. END (which I'm assuming Gray is getting scaled to) is another hype character. He was explicitly stated to have attacked Dimaria with killing intent and no dice. Laxus is above him and Gray.

 

[Ratrace]

Neinhart literally never comments on Jellal's magic power, he simply questioned the nature of it. This reminds me of when people were blowing up over the spoilers thinking Neinhart was afraid of Jellal when in actuality it was Erza he was shitting bricks over. In any case, Jellal did not drown unless you can post scans of him struggling to breathe under water. I don't know why this headcanon is even still a thing. Just as Jellal knocked him out cold, Neinhart did the same albeit more casually. It should also be noted that Jellal performed a GC with killing intent and could not kill an average Spriggan unlike a certain lightning chad.

OT: Laxus easily. Laxus doesn't need to scale to Erza. END (which I'm assuming Gray is getting scaled to) is another hype character. He was explicitly stated to have attacked Dimaria with killing intent and no dice. Laxus is above him and Gray.

Wasn’t it because he recognized she was Irene daughter

 

[Jko]

Beating Raven Tail means nothing, they're all fodders. Laxus's impressive feat is beating Jura, the raid boss of GMG.

Beating Raven Tail > 4 OS members who are only as strong as their OS arc self lol.

Jellol was doing pretty well against Jura, they were having an pretty even match. Clearly, the indication of that fight was Jellol is Jura tier, and would've edged him out if the fight had continued. If anything, back during GMG days, it was Laxus who had to prove himself that he was Jura level. Makarov was fairly confident of Jellol's chances of defeating Jura, while he was worried about Laxus.

Jellal only took two attacka from Jura who wasn't even trying as he thought he was only fighting Mystogan lol. They weren't even which is why Jellal had to use his strongest attack to damage the guy. If Jura hit him with the punch he did on Laxus or Rufus he would be out cold. Makarov based his assesment on Jellal being a former wizard saint and him having the abiloty to train for the last seven years. Makarov doubted Laxus bcs he didn't think he could have gotten that powerful in a matter of three months. Also I would not take anything GMG Makarov said legit as he thought Jura was close to Gildarts lol.

Yea, he stomped a Demon Gate, why won't Jellol be able to replicate it?

Bcs he got beat up by fodder OS who are weaker than the 7kin who are far weaker than Tartarus. Clearly he wasn't oneshotting a 9D like Laxus by feats lol.

OS isn't some weaklings. Corba and Midnight are both above pre 2nd origin Erza level. Jellol got beat up by OS until he decided to use HBM. The moment he used meteor, he blitzed all of them, prompting Midnight to use nightmare. His fight against OS is pretty good feat for him.

No, they aren't. Cobra was beaten by OS Natsu ans Mystogan was fodderized by OS Erza. Itxs not a good feat as all those guys are the embodiment of fodder. Max has better feats than them. I'm guessing you are trying to oull Starry Sky feats to help them? Which one, that would only put them at Tenrou level character's level and those guys are fodder as seen when Natsu oneshotted Max who was Tenrou Natsu level. Two, it is not canon and just useless filler.

He one shotted Neinhart and Gears regardless. He needed Ultear only for mental support, the guy was held down by his guilt. The moment he got over it, he used thought projection and countered Gears. We don't know if Gears have fodder stats, or whether Jellol has high offense, Gears has no other feats.

Both have fodder stats. Yeah and he would have lost had it not been for Ultear bs her way through "time". The magic feeds off guilt and she helped him overcome it lol.

Did I say they were comparable? No? They have different feats which don't allow comparisons, I said that earlier itself. All I said was that Jellol lacking drawn out fight don't make him weak. He one shotted both his opponents.

He oneshotted them bcs they are weak. One of them was wrecked by Base Natsu's basic punch while enhanced and the other only scales to the other fodder seeds that got whooped by fodder level attacks.

Yea no. You think Neinhart is gonna get worried if he sees an unknown type magic of weak magic power? Of course not. He was worried because he sensed high MP from Jellol and knew he was about to get fucked. You're just reaching at this point.

It literally says he is only concerned with the magic he is using. It was nothing to do with magic power lol. How am I reaching when you have give nothing to say he thought his magic power was greater than his own?

I'm not even gonna bother addressing your Neinhart "one shot" anymore. You're gonna keep claiming this, even tho Jellol took no damage from the attack and got knocked out only because of drowning.

Man you can keep bringing up your fanfic that he drowned bcs he was wasn't strong enough to pick up an anchor (which makes even more weak sauce), but the manga clearly showed him KOed from the attack either way.

Juvia, yes. Jellol, no. He has clearly given Jellol feats that are relevant. He took one shotted a Spriggan and a God seed.

Taking down the weakest Spriggan who pretty much had his own arsenal wiped out by his weakened GF and hid behind Simon is not a noteworthy feat. God Seed were takedown by fodder and fodder level attacks so again, not really a noteworthy or relevant feat. These feats aren't even Base Natsu level lol.

He did stuff against Acno as well. In fact, he outperformed whatever Eileen showed against Acno. But you praise Eileen for those feats, while completely disregard Jellol doing the same and more to Acno. It's clear why.

Irene actually praised by Acno and had Acno in awe of her power versus Jellal who was ignored and saved by Christina two times in the middle of his "fight" with Acno. So yeah, we aren't mentioning Jellal's feat bcs it is a complete and utter PIS moment. We know this bcs his feats are trash and Acno was so weakened by plot that he couldn't even beat a ship that Wall did from over 400km instantaneously. God have mercy, you Jellal fans are the only ones who use Acno feats from the last thrirty chapters to justify his "status". His fight was utter PIS while Irene wasn't as she didn't have the FT plot force protection plan that make their enemies dumb as brick and the characters unkillable. A stronger version of Acno couldn't even down Cobra who was already beat up from the August fight in the last thirty chapters.

His bind snake immobilized Erza, and she had to play him to get out of it. She would've just brute forced out of it, if Jellol was a tier below Erza.

1. It is hax so no she wouldn't brute herself through it (Erza w/o PIS is terrible against hax) even if she was above him (which she is) and 2. he needed to seduce her in the first place to do it.

It's not just a staredown, it's Laxus then admitting that if they fought, it wouldn't end well for either of them. i.e both are gonna get beaten up.

It would only be bad for Laxus bcs he would get bad rep from the citizens for bitch slapping Jellal through Magnolia lol.

They are considered around same level by Mashima, which was why he teased their fight multiple times in the series. This has precedence from GMG as well.

Clearly not otherwise he would have fought Laxus and not Erza.

Mira has no portrayal with Laxus, wtf? Laxus took down Jura, someone who she admitted was far above her level. She USED to have portrayal with Erza, which basically shattered by Tartarus arc.

Yeah, you clearly are selectively reading the manga, my dude. Mira was hyped in portrayal this entire arc.

Spoiler

Hyped as unbeatable threat to Gray's group like Laxus and put on the same pedestal as Laxus in Natsu's statement.

Natsu dissed him, because Mashima was trolling Jellol with clown persona and had him tied up. Which was why the panel immediately went to tied up clown Jellol.

Excuses. His portrayal was shot out of the sky when Natsu, the fighting freak, didn't care to fight him and Juvia only mentioning her worries about fighting Laxus and not Jellal.

Yea, when Natsu calmed down after knocking out Neinhart and was caught off guard. He considered Brandish an ally, or at least no an adversary, and didn't expect her to turn on him. If he was on guard and powered up, Brandish won't be able to do jack to him.

Excuses. Natsu literally said he would go through Brandish if she gets in his way and then was oneshotted.

Natsu didn't use the same attacks against Jacob. He was severely holding back within guild halls, even in his base. Same 2 attacks would knock out Jacob too. Yea, Neinhart's physicals are trash relative to his MP, so is the case for quite a few Spriggans. Among regular Spriggans, only Wahl and Ajeel have decent stats.

Yeah no, he used to basic punches which is the same thing he did on Jacob. He fought Zeref in the guild as well so fighting in the guild is meaningless. It just means all the attacks would be AP focused rather than being DC or AoE based. Not true at all.

Because it was so happening during the oneshot as well. (It was to show that FT mostly Natsu was more than capable in winning against a Spriggans)

That’s debatable but okay

Again he would have replicated the feat either way. He only oneshotted Neinheart and then got beaten by Brandish and DiMaria wasn't even impressed lol. So the statement itself held no weight. Like dude, you act like he oneshotted August in that moment or something lol. He oneshotted Neinheart who is just the weakest S12 with garbage stats which he could do at any moment in Alvarez or Current. There was nothing indicating he was boosted in that scene at all.

I mean she clearly shown that she can affect him at any time but okay.

 

[Ratrace]

Beating Raven Tail > 4 OS members who are only as strong as their OS arc self lol.

Jellal only took two attacka from Jura who wasn't even trying as he thought he was only fighting Mystogan lol. They weren't even which is why Jellal had to use his strongest attack to damage the guy. If Jura hit him with the punch he did on Laxus or Rufus he would be out cold. Makarov based his assesment on Jellal being a former wizard saint and him having the abiloty to train for the last seven years. Makarov doubted Laxus bcs he didn't think he could have gotten that powerful in a matter of three months. Also I would not take anything GMG Makarov said legit as he thought Jura was close to Gildarts lol.

Bcs he got beat up by fodder OS who are weaker than the 7kin who are far weaker than Tartarus. Clearly he wasn't oneshotting a 9D like Laxus by feats lol.

No, they aren't. Cobra was beaten by OS Natsu ans Mystogan was fodderized by OS Erza. Itxs not a good feat as all those guys are the embodiment of fodder. Max has better feats than them. I'm guessing you are trying to oull Starry Sky feats to help them? Which one, that would only put them at Tenrou level character's level and those guys are fodder as seen when Natsu oneshotted Max who was Tenrou Natsu level. Two, it is not canon and just useless filler.

Both have fodder stats. Yeah and he would have lost had it not been for Ultear bs her way through "time". The magic feeds off guilt and she helped him overcome it lol.

He oneshotted them bcs they are weak. One of them was wrecked by Base Natsu's basic punch while enhanced and the other only scales to the other fodder seeds that got whooped by fodder level attacks.

It literally says he is only concerned with the magic he is using. It was nothing to do with magic power lol. How am I reaching when you have give nothing to say he thought his magic power was greater than his own?

Man you can keep bringing up your fanfic that he drowned bcs he was wasn't strong enough to pick up an anchor (which makes even more weak sauce), but the manga clearly showed him KOed from the attack either way.

Taking down the weakest Spriggan who pretty much had his own arsenal wiped out by his weakened GF and hid behind Simon is not a noteworthy feat. God Seed were takedown by fodder and fodder level attacks so again, not really a noteworthy or relevant feat. These feats aren't even Base Natsu level lol.

Irene actually praised by Acno and had Acno in awe of her power versus Jellal who was ignored and saved by Christina two times in the middle of his "fight" with Acno. So yeah, we aren't mentioning Jellal's feat bcs it is a complete and utter PIS moment. We know this bcs his feats are trash and Acno was so weakened by plot that he couldn't even beat a ship that Wall did from over 400km instantaneously. God have mercy, you Jellal fans are the only ones who use Acno feats from the last thrirty chapters to justify his "status". His fight was utter PIS while Irene wasn't as she didn't have the FT plot force protection plan that make their enemies dumb as brick and the characters unkillable. A stronger version of Acno couldn't even down Cobra who was already beat up from the August fight in the last thirty chapters.

1. It is hax so no she wouldn't brute herself through it (Erza w/o PIS is terrible against hax) even if she was above him (which she is) and 2. he needed to seduce her in the first place to do it.
It would only be bad for Laxus bcs he would get bad rep from the citizens for bitch slapping Jellal through Magnolia lol.

Clearly not otherwise he would have fought Laxus and not Erza.

Yeah, you clearly are selectively reading the manga, my dude. Mira was hyped in portrayal this entire arc.

Spoiler

Hyped as unbeatable threat to Gray's group like Laxus and put on the same pedestal as Laxus in Natsu's statement.

Excuses. His portrayal was shot out of the sky when Natsu, the fighting freak, didn't care to fight him and Juvia only mentioning her worries about fighting Laxus and not Jellal.

Excuses. Natsu literally said he would go through Brandish if she gets in his way and then was oneshotted.

Yeah no, he used to basic punches which is the same thing he did on Jacob. He fought Zeref in the guild as well so fighting in the guild is meaningless. It just means all the attacks would be AP focused rather than being DC or AoE based. Not true at all.


Again he would have replicated the feat either way. He only oneshotted Neinheart and then got beaten by Brandish and DiMaria wasn't even impressed lol. So the statement itself held no weight. Like dude, you act like he oneshotted August in that moment or something lol. He oneshotted Neinheart who is just the weakest S12 with garbage stats which he could do at any moment in Alvarez or Current. There was nothing indicating he was boosted in that scene at all.

I mean she clearly shown that she can affect him at any time but okay.

I said most not all, so it was just by chance that Neinhart was oneshotted when they were arguing about who’s stronger.
Enlarging the tumor might have been one of the reasons why END was awakened so if that’s the case it was going to happen soon or later no matter who Natsu oneshotted.

True, funny how a sneak attack can do to a character

 

[Lucy>Wendy&Elfman]

Laxus wins mid/high-diff.

 

[Loke]

Laxus mops Gray.

 

[Ramen]

Laxus one-shots.

 

[Darklord#10]

Laxus wins mid/high-diff.

lmao . Laxus solos

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 11, 2023 ---

You will never hear anyone say since erza without her senses beat etherious koyoka who was getting stronger every second so tartarus erza should atleast mid diff mard gear and maybe even defeat etherious mard gear.

Dude you have issues and you were complaining about me saying you said this. I fucking knew you said this. Only an erza fan is stupid enough to complain that mard geer was stronger than erza back then

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2023 ---

But everyone will remind you that laxus defeated wahl when he had cancer and wahl was immune to lightening so he is super strong

You can't understand simple logic. Erza got injured or whatever in her fight against kyoka. Complaining about that is like complaining that erza got wrecked by Eileen. Laxus went into the war sick already, he had the cancer before fighting Wahl. And if anything you're the one that has issues here you just don't like it when people say laxus is stronger than Erza or august is stronger than Eileen but you can say bullshit like kyoka is stronger than mard geer

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2023 ---

Mard cannot do what koyoka could so since erza can defeat etherious koyoka without her senses, than etherious mard gear is fair game for tartarus erza.
If you dont agree with this

You talk like a clown ngl, what you're saying doesn't even make sense. Mard geer double kyoka stats in their base form. All erza fans are like this, they can't accept reality