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Fantasy Lucy Vs Juvia

Star Frost

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Look im saying that Juvia is physically stronger than Lucy when Lucy doesn't have Star Dress. I wasn't overhyping her knocking down Lyon. I was just having it as an example of her using a physical attcak.
A physical attack that you're overhyping to be stronger than Lucy despite it being a gag feat that's <= fodder tiers that Lucy had Lucy kicked. And look, whether she's physically stronger than Lucy without the Star Dress isn't important cause this is a battle thread where they're going at it hypothetically with all their given feats.

Even though it was a comedic effect flooding the guild, she still did it.
So? It isnt useful in battle either way.

And yeah Juvia can summon massive amounts of water because Aquarius can so the same and she is stronger than Aquarius. Lucy only blocked it witb great difficulty. Even Virgo had to push Lucy to help.
That's really ridiculous of you to say. And what makes Juvia stronger than Aquarius anyway when with one move they were shown to be even? Who cares, she still blocked it and in the end Juvia never had her out of the sphere.

And Wings of Love does seem stronger than Aqua Metria.
Wings of Love stronger than Aqua Metria?! Are you joking?!:cookiearf What makes that so much stronger than Aqua Metria?!

And Juvia can just spam water slicers that could cut through steel at the beginning of the manga. And it's annoying how Juvias doesn't get many one on one figths even though ahe very powerful.
Juvia has used that Water Slicer move in the Alvarez Arc against some fodders and in the beginning of the manga, that hasn't shown to cut through steel or anything like that at all.:neutral Even so Lucy has her Water Barrier and Loke's magic to defend against them so it don't even matter. Hey, most of us feel the same about Lucy who has yet to display what she's truly made of but that can't be helped right now.

And Juvia could probably doge lokes attacks and even if he does hit her and stub her, her water body will still be active.
She can't dodge what she can't see since Loke's Lion's brilliance will stun her in blindness which is how I was saying she'll be of such to activate her water body to defend against.

And can Gemini harm Juvia. And does a person Gemini want to copy have to be with them? And UM won't affect Juvia. And Juvia won't just stand there and take punishment. And if Juvia used her true power she would beat Lucy even faster.
If Gemini wants to copy them then yeah they do have to be with them. But if they already had copied them then it's not necessary unless they have them out of their data. UM will affect Juvia dude and there's no dodging from it since it's all around the area. You know all you're mostly doing is making claims without providing much support which isn't good to do cause they're meaningless.
 

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Seriously. That Lucy taking down the octopus was like beating it up, only restricted it's movements. And it was without a doubt 100% BS that Juvia lost the naval battle because she could turn into the stage which Aquarius couldn't do. Aquarius hasn't been shown to manipulate her water body. She just got swept away in water.... duh. Whats so hard to understand that Juvia is superior to Aquarius. She can do what Aquarius can and more. And Juvia only struggled with Keyes because of 1. Plot and 2. His intangibility. Like remember how Wendy couldn't beat that other historia demon. And Laxus had a hard time beating Hades. And Erza not beating those other guys that she was miles a head. And Meredy struggling with Zoncrow. So it's because the plot that they had a hard time. And anyone would have a hard time beating some one with intangibility. Im sure in tartoros arc Natsu or Gray wouldn't be able to be Keyes. And Juvia didn't take that much damage when fighting Historia Keyes. I find it funny how people keep trying dehype Juvia when they have no evidence to do so.
What? Did you not see the feat. The water Aquarius was controlling was the water from Juvia's body. Thus she was controlling Juvia water.

You keep saying Juvia is superior to Aquarius but nowhere has that been stated or shown. You take take each characters best feats and compare them. Juvia has of yet matched Aquarius feat from Chapter 1 in raw power. The closest she came was at the end of Alveraz arc.

Water Slicer couldn't even pierce Gray

Actually looking up the feats I realized her water slicer never cut Steel.

Also Wendy and Laxus was able to beat their historia while being severely injured. Wendy with a broken leg and Laxus from the fight against Whal. Neither one needed a power up either to do so.




You can clearly see Juvia heavily bruised after fighting Keyes. Unlike the others she didn't face off against a Spriggan 12 member before hand. Prior to her fight with Keyes she was in perfect health.



Juvia is strong but not as strong as you hype her to be. Feats tell a different a story from the one you are telling.

For example Juvia water Jigsaw was able to destroy the ground beneath her that didn't stop Lucy from stopping her though.


This feat clearly proves she can't physically overpower Lucy.
 

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i have been giving good support you guys just shoot it down with no good evidence. You people are not listening or acepting the facts im been putting forward. UM won't affect Juvia because of her intangibility. Saying it would is speculation. Juvia flooding the guild shiws she can summon massive amounts of water. And saying Aquarius is stronger than Juvia is just dumb. I mean come on. Juvia has become stronger after the timeskip so yeah she's stronger than Aquarius. Juvia states water slicer can cut through steel. Whatbmames Wings of Love stronger than Aqua Metria is amount of water it uses and the force it exterts. And that whole naval battle was BS. And Aquarius was not controlling Juvias water body. Because she wasn't using it. Juvia was not heavily brusied after her fight. She was damaged but not much. And those Histotria battles were all BS from logic standpoints. I don't see how one feat at the beginning of the manga changes everything. Juvia is definitely stronger than Lucy you people just can't accept that.
 

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Lucy's whip is not water based. su
Oh I forgot to reply to this last night.

Yes her whip is water based

http://fairytail.wikia.com/wiki/Fleuve_d'étoiles

The water hardens into a whip that's size can be manipulated.

. And those dragon lasers i think she didn't have enough magic energy to use water body. .
So all Lucy has to do is outlast Juvia? .

....well since Aries one of the weakest Zodiac can block Juvia's love attack with her wool then the poor water mage will never get passed Horologium's defenses or even Scorpio's Sand Wall or Taurus's Axlebraun or Water sphere.

I mean Horologiu has protected against Lava. That's way hotter that Juvia's sierra. And against Anima and Hades and Jacob. She's not breaking into that.

i have been giving good support you guys just shoot it down with no good evidence. You people are not listening or acepting the facts im been putting forward. UM won't affect Juvia because of her intangibility. Saying it would is speculation. Juvia flooding the guild shiws she can summon massive amounts of water. And saying Aquarius is stronger than Juvia is just dumb. I mean come on. Juvia has become stronger after the timeskip so yeah she's stronger than Aquarius. Juvia states water slicer can cut through steel. Whatbmames Wings of Love stronger than Aqua Metria is amount of water it uses and the force it exterts. And that whole naval battle was BS. And Aquarius was not controlling Juvias water body. Because she wasn't using it. Juvia was not heavily brusied after her fight. She was damaged but not much. And those Histotria battles were all BS from logic standpoints. I don't see how one feat at the beginning of the manga changes everything. Juvia is definitely stronger than Lucy you people just can't accept that.
It's funny that to counter 2/3 of things stated you say that the reasoning is speculation. Well that's what this thread is for as Juvia vs Lucy hasn't happened since Gmg. Lucy was notably weaker then and Juvia's best attack that arc was blocked. So most things will be speculation based on current feats.

You ignore Aqua Metria as a better attack when Juvia has never shown an attack with that AoE level. You say wings of love is stronger when that attack was using THE WATER that was in THE WATER arena. While AQUA METRIA created enough water to turn a landscape into an OCEAN of ROLLING mud.

You use an anime only feat of Juvia flooding a guild to show how much water she can create when Lucy and Aquairus have used spells that affected Hargeon's port (Jellal's grand chariot didn't even do that) and whole landscapes (in the Brandish fight).

It's also funny how you say her attacks are so impressive when Gray and Lucy both had little damage to water slicer and water cane.... Then Juvia used Water Jigsaw against Lucy... a spell that incorporated Water slicer into her body, creating a vortex of razor sharp water. Juvia said she was trying to slice Lucy so why did she not slice Lucy's leg off when Base Lucy shoved her foot up Juvia's body to hold her in place to summon Aquarius? That's back before Star dresses.

Water Lock was the spell Juvia used to kidnap Lucy in Phantom lord but Virgo has Spica lock which locks an opponent in a sphere of stone, while Lucy has water sphere a defense version of water lock; she has Aries star dress too. A Juvia isn't going to one shot with all these counters to this spell.

Sherria and Lyon also were not affected by Juvia's Water Nebula or Water Slicer.... as Gruvia unison raids of Ice and Water had to be used to beat them in Gmg. Keyes also didn't get hurt by those attacks. And neither did Historia Keyes. The only person ever to be effected by water nebula and water slicer was Meredy who Mashima stated in an afterword was the weakest 7 kin and she was a young child at the time.

Plus Gemini still has Marin hollow copied? How can Juvia hit Lucy when Marin teleports so fast that not even Natsu or Gray could hit him?????

You say that UM and star shot hurting Juvia's body is speculation and Gemini copying Juvia is speculation but then you speculate that Juvia is stronger now and if she used wings of love, it would be stronger......... that's speculation too as so far her attacks have been the exact same the last 545+ chapters..... We currently don't know her current level as it was shown other than her battle with Historia Keyes and the fake battle she had with Gray. So anything current is speculation.

Plus explosions like star shot do vaporize water as shown by Jackal in Tartaros. And Juvia's body is made of waters most things can hurt water because they are Physical objects that can pass through. Explosions vaporize water tho. You will say that's speculation but Juvia has been shown to be weak to having her water body turned to vapor. That's canon.

Lightening did hurt Juvia's water body..... that means anything like lighting would hurt Juvia's water body.


And if Juvia tires out, she can't use her water body.....

You also using Juvia one shotting Lyon when in the Afterparty omake Lucy one shotted Natsu with a kick and in Tenrou she one shotted Bixslow with a kick. Her Refulus infused kick even hurt Jacob.

You also say that Aquarius being stronger then Juvia is dumb because Juvia trained during the timeskip. A spirits energy is based on the summoner. This has been in the manga since the beginning. So as Lucy gets stronger, so does her spirits. Aquarius wouldn't be stagnant. If Lucy still had her key, her powers would mimic the level Lucy was currently on. That's the thing about Naval battle, when Juvia used water cyclone and Aquarius blocked it, that was as much Lucy's feat as it was Aquarius.

Plus this thread has no restrictions. So does that mean we can use recompensated summoning? Meteor blade and Galaxia blade?
 
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Loke

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Could go either way. Personally I'd back Juvia.
 

Star Frost

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UM won't affect Juvia because of her intangibility. Saying it would is speculation.
Regardless of her intangibility, Juvia will be affected by UM. It's not something that she can easily have pass through her like any other average melee/magic physical attacks she done had gone through her. They'll explode in contact doing heavy damage. There's been times where she's been affected alot by attacks based on the injuries she suffered from. So to a certain extent, some attacks will work against her intangibility. And as I done said, Loke will blind her with his Lion's Brilliance anyway that'll render her too stunned to activate it which would be useless against UM or that explosion Marin caused to blow up that stand in Carocole Island:

Juvia flooding the guild shiws she can summon massive amounts of water.
Technically she didn't flood the guild but only just like the first floor plus also she never shown any use of that at all except for a comedy moment so regardless if she did it's irrelevant to say cause it's useless to bring up for the battle thread.

Juvia states water slicer can cut through steel.
The manga doesn't state that Juvia's water slicer can cut through steel nor has it shown to do that good amount of damage to Gray when she used it:

Its greatest feat is defending against Meredy's Maguilty=Ray who Mashima stated to be the weakest of the 7 kin which she had used the water around the area to do it:

Matter of fact, her Water Jigsaw supposedly was to cut Lucy into pieces which instead despite the ground she was rupturing in contact, she just gave Lucy a few cuts on her hands which didn't even prevent her from stopping Juvia from her tracks with her foot and summoning Aquarius:

So those two spells aren't what you're hyping them to be that'll do hardly close to much on Lucy.

I don't see how one feat at the beginning of the manga changes everything.
Because that feat never happened in the manga at all. Nowhere it displayed she can cut through steel that'll do much to the ones she had used it against.

And saying Aquarius is stronger than Juvia is just dumb. I mean come on. Juvia has become stronger after the timeskip so yeah she's stronger than Aquarius. And Aquarius was not controlling Juvias water body. Because she wasn't using it. Juvia was not heavily brusied after her fight. She was damaged but not much.
Saying Juvia is stronger than Aquarius because she trained being the reason is pure speculation and dumb dude. You got no proof to say she's stronger than Aquarius now considering really it don't appear there's any change in her power at all. The only thing new about her is learning that new Water-Make magic ability which is just a suicide move. Not to mention if that's the case despite there being no evidence, what you're saying about her I can say the same thing about Lucy. She trained also (much longer than Juvia has in fact) and Celestial Spirits become stronger when their owner does which some of them she summoned has displayed their improvement like Scorpio's improved Sand Buster attack and Gemini can turn into Marin whose pretty decent. And because of this, I can say hypothetically if Aquarius has Lucy as her owner now, she is much stronger because Lucy has trained to be so.

Whatbmames Wings of Love stronger than Aqua Metria is amount of water it uses and the force it exterts. And that whole naval battle was BS.
Let me first start off by saying there was nothing BS about the Naval Battle. I mean Lucy and Juvia are evenly matched; and Juvia has shown to be pretty much unbeatable in her specialty environment from the three fodders she done took out which there's no way she would've beaten Minerva who could've easily just have them all out with her Territory and even if she didn't did what she done to Juvia, Juvia would've regardless end up like Lucy.

Now onto the other thing. I'm sorry but I am so lost. What makes this:

so much stronger than this:




The AoE of Lucy's Aqua Metria is too enormous in comparison to Juvia's Wings of Love which she was in an environment that makes her fight better than most of the combatants there while outside of such, she couldn't even beat Sherria like she done did in the Naval Battle. While Lucy on the other hand who also specializes in water herself via her Aquarius Star Dress didn't need to be in an environment where she can fight better yet powerful enough to make the earth surge like ocean waves. So it's really ridiculous to say the Wings of Love spell is stronger.

And those Histotria battles were all BS from logic standpoints.
What's so BS about the Historia battles? Gray + Lyon obviously are stronger than Ur given how stronger they have gotten (especially Gray with his IDeSM) but couldn't beat her due to their reluctance on doing so. Wendy and Laxus would've beaten their Historias easily if it wasn't for either their fatal injuries. They both are seriously powerful at their prime given how Laxus just finished off one of the Spriggan 12 whose > Hades, and Wendy defeated Ezel before with her DF. Juvia and Meredy were the only ones that couldn't even beat theirs yet they never suffered what the other four went through but were just getting owned that they needed to combine their powers to win. So yeah no BS.

i have been giving good support you guys just shoot it down with no good evidence. You people are not listening or acepting the facts im been putting forward. Juvia is definitely stronger than Lucy you people just can't accept that.
Most of the so called facts you gave are mostly based on hype and speculation along with excuses and meaningless claims. If you ask me, what you're saying what we're doing and not doing strongly best describes you due to your determination to make Juvia look better as you think she is.
 
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AWater22

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Juvia, I think. Two reasons:

1) Lucy is basically powerless without her keys. If Juvia is able to remove her keys like she did in phantom arc she could easily win with a water lock.
2) Lucy hasn't been shown to be able to take much of a physical beating, and when she does, she loses a considerable amount of magic power. Plus, Juvia pulled off her second-origin ability, Wings of Love, with little effort. While Lucy has a lot of trouble pulling Urano Mentria off without immense emotional power.

Not to mention the only attacks that would affect Juvia would be: Aquarius star dress, Leo+Leo star dress, and Urano Mentria.
Either way I can't see Lucy winning this.
 
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Rigel

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Juvia in the situation she is in, must have high difficulties against Levy. And she must not be able to beat Lisanna.

It she is so weak and irrelevant.
 

Jko

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Current Lucy rolfstomps Juvia. Hell, Lisanna has better feats than her now lmao.
 

AWater22

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Juvia in the situation she is in, must have high difficulties against Levy. And she must not be able to beat Lisanna.

It she is so weak and irrelevant.
Honestly, she held her own while holding back against DS Gray so that puts her above both of them. Plus, Juvia's attacks have much more magnitude than either of them.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Regardless of her intangibility, Juvia will be affected by UM. It's not something that she can easily have pass through her like any other average melee/magic physical attacks she done had gone through her. They'll explode in contact doing heavy damage. There's been times where she's been affected alot by attacks based on the injuries she suffered from. So to a certain extent, some attacks will work against her intangibility. And as I done said, Loke will blind her with his Lion's Brilliance anyway that'll render her too stunned to activate it which would be useless against UM or that explosion Marin caused to blow up that stand in Carocole Island:


Technically she didn't flood the guild but only just like the first floor plus also she never shown any use of that at all except for a comedy moment so regardless if she did it's irrelevant to say cause it's useless to bring up for the battle thread.


The manga doesn't state that Juvia's water slicer can cut through steel nor has it shown to do that good amount of damage to Gray when she used it:

Its greatest feat is defending against Meredy's Maguilty=Ray who Mashima stated to be the weakest of the 7 kin which she had used the water around the area to do it:

Matter of fact, her Water Jigsaw supposedly was to cut Lucy into pieces which instead despite the ground she was rupturing in contact, she just gave Lucy a few cuts on her hands which didn't even prevent her from stopping Juvia from her tracks with her foot and summoning Aquarius:

So those two spells aren't what you're hyping them to be that'll do hardly close to much on Lucy.


Because that feat never happened in the manga at all. Nowhere it displayed she can cut through steel that'll do much to the ones she had used it against.


Saying Juvia is stronger than Aquarius because she trained being the reason is pure speculation and dumb dude. You got no proof to say she's stronger than Aquarius now considering really it don't appear there's any change in her power at all. The only thing new about her is learning that new Water-Make magic ability which is just a suicide move. Not to mention if that's the case despite there being no evidence, what you're saying about her I can say the same thing about Lucy. She trained also (much longer than Juvia has in fact) and Celestial Spirits become stronger when their owner does which some of them she summoned has displayed their improvement like Scorpio's improved Sand Buster attack and Gemini can turn into Marin whose pretty decent. And because of this, I can say hypothetically if Aquarius has Lucy as her owner now, she is much stronger because Lucy has trained to be so.


Let me first start off by saying there was nothing BS about the Naval Battle. I mean Lucy and Juvia are evenly matched; and Juvia has shown to be pretty much unbeatable in her specialty environment from the three fodders she done took out which there's no way she would've beaten Minerva who could've easily just have them all out with her Territory and even if she didn't did what she done to Juvia, Juvia would've regardless end up like Lucy.

Now onto the other thing. I'm sorry but I am so lost. What makes this:

so much stronger than this:




The AoE of Lucy's Aqua Metria is too enormous in comparison to Juvia's Wings of Love which she was in an environment that makes her fight better than most of the combatants there while outside of such, she couldn't even beat Sherria like she done did in the Naval Battle. While Lucy on the other hand who also specializes in water herself via her Aquarius Star Dress didn't need to be in an environment where she can fight better yet powerful enough to make the earth surge like ocean waves. So it's really ridiculous to say the Wings of Love spell is stronger.


What's so BS about the Historia battles? Gray + Lyon obviously are stronger than Ur given how stronger they have gotten (especially Gray with his IDeSM) but couldn't beat her due to their reluctance on doing so. Wendy and Laxus would've beaten their Historias easily if it wasn't for either their fatal injuries. They both are seriously powerful at their prime given how Laxus just finished off one of the Spriggan 12 whose > Hades, and Wendy defeated Ezel before with her DF. Juvia and Meredy were the only ones that couldn't even beat theirs yet they never suffered what the other four went through but were just getting owned that they needed to combine their powers to win. So yeah no BS.


Most of the so called facts you gave are mostly based on hype and speculation along with excuses and meaningless claims. If you ask me, what you're saying what we're doing and not doing strongly best describes you due to your determination to make Juvia look better as you think she is.
Juvia, I think. Two reasons:

1) Lucy is basically powerless without her keys. If Juvia is able to remove her keys like she did in phantom arc she could easily win with a water lock.
2) Lucy hasn't been shown to be able to take much of a physical beating, and when she does, she loses a considerable amount of magic power. Plus, Juvia pulled off her second-origin ability, Wings of Love, with little effort. While Lucy has a lot of trouble pulling Urano Mentria off without immense emotional power.

Not to mention the only attacks that would affect Juvia would be: Aquarius star dress, Leo+Leo star dress, and Urano Mentria.
Either way I can't see Lucy winning this.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Honestly, she held her own while holding back against DS Gray so that puts her above both of them. Plus, Juvia's attacks have much more magnitude than either of them.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Juvia, I think. Two reasons:

1) Lucy is basically powerless without her keys. If Juvia is able to remove her keys like she did in phantom arc she could easily win with a water lock.
2) Lucy hasn't been shown to be able to take much of a physical beating, and when she does, she loses a considerable amount of magic power. Plus, Juvia pulled off her second-origin ability, Wings of Love, with little effort. While Lucy has a lot of trouble pulling Urano Mentria off without immense emotional power. Also, Wings of love is shown to be way more precise. In the dragon cry movie She hit both dolls without touching gray who was in the way, so lucy wouldn't be able to dodge it. (Aqua Mentria is irrelevant because Juvia can control it back.)

Not to mention the only attacks that would affect Juvia would be: Aquarius star dress, Leo+Leo star dress, and Urano Mentria.
Either way I can't see Lucy winning this.
 

One4All

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Honestly, she held her own while holding back against DS Gray so that puts her above both of them. Plus, Juvia's attacks have much more magnitude than either of them.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Juvia, I think. Two reasons:

1) Lucy is basically powerless without her keys. If Juvia is able to remove her keys like she did in phantom arc she could easily win with a water lock.
2) Lucy hasn't been shown to be able to take much of a physical beating, and when she does, she loses a considerable amount of magic power. Plus, Juvia pulled off her second-origin ability, Wings of Love, with little effort. While Lucy has a lot of trouble pulling Urano Mentria off without immense emotional power.

Not to mention the only attacks that would affect Juvia would be: Aquarius star dress, Leo+Leo star dress, and Urano Mentria.
Either way I can't see Lucy winning this.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
1. Juvia doesn't have territory magic like Minerva to steal her keys. If you are talking about PL arc wherein she locked Lucy in her Water Lock,then I think you're still stuck at Lucy at her Phantom Lord level.lol

2. Lucy didn't took so much beating?did you read the latest chapter?or even read her battle against Hades,Tartaros and Brandish?And for the record,Juvia's wings of love was Juvia's SO move as you say was used during GMG Naval battle which Lucy defended. If you are saying Juvia > Lucy at that point,Minerva should've picked Lucy instead of Juvia. Though,you may argue that it's the plot.

And mind you,UM would kill Juvia.lol. Unless you believe Juvia>Mimi or Jackal.lol. Juvia doesn't have any 100YQ feats by HERSELF. She didn't show any powerups either.
 
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AWater22

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1. Juvia doesn't have territory magic like Minerva to steal her keys. If you are talking about PL arc wherein she locked Lucy in her Water Lock,then I think you're still stuck at Lucy at her Phantom Lord level.lol

2. Lucy didn't took so much beating?did you read the latest chapter?or even read her battle against Hades,Tartaros and Brandish?And for the record,Juvia's wings of love was Juvia's SO move as you say was used during GMG Naval battle which Lucy defended. If you are saying Juvia > Lucy at that point,Minerva should've picked Lucy instead of Juvia. Though,you may argue that it's the plot.

And mind you,UM would kill Juvia.lol. Unless you believe Juvia>Mimi or Jackal.lol. Juvia doesn't have any 100YQ feats by HERSELF. She didn't show any powerups either.
Ok let me clarify. Running out of air is the same no matter how strong you get. Second what if she locks the keys in water lock.

I probably shouldn't have said that Lucy didn't have that much of a beating. What I meant was that she doesn't have a lot of magic that increases her defensive power.

Lucy CAN'T just spam Urano Mentria so that is out of the picture. She needs gemini and/or immense emotional power. Wings of Love isn't a one use ability. She used it again in the Dragon Cry movie. Juvia was able to spam giant whirlpools in the middle of the battlefield so I would call that a power up.
 

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I don't why Lucy can't just do what she did to Mimi. Aquarius keeps her distracted long enough for Lucy to cast Urano Metria with Gemini. Unlike Mimi, Juvia can't just drink all of Aquarius' waters. She's pretty much gonna be stuck in a stalemate with Aquarius until Lucy hits her with Urano.

Actually....I'm not entirely convinced that Juvia can even beat Aquarius.
 

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Ok let me clarify. Running out of air is the same no matter how strong you get. Second what if she locks the keys in water lock.

Again,I think you are stuck with Lucy at Phantom Lord Arc. Lucy was trapped in that water sphere because:
1. She was caught off guard.
2. Her fighting experience was at very minimal. In fact,the only battle she had at that time was against Sherry way back in Galuna arc. One would expect Lucy to fail at attacking or even defending herself at that time because she WAS very weak.

Are you suggesting that ones the keys where "locked" in a water,Lucy can't summon the spirits? I don't think suffocating the keys would make them unavailable for use. As I said,Juvia doesn't have Territory Magic or any space magic that would SEPARATE Lucy from her keys. She may be able to use water lock on them but I don't think that would prevent Lucy from summoning the Spirits. IF Lucy's feats on Elentir is permanent even in Earthland, the "long distance relationship with the keys" arguments will finally die.lol
And also,did you forget Horolugium,Virgo and Loki can open their gates on their own??especially when Lucy is in pinch??

Seriously though,Water Lock's feat is really OUTDATED. If that was a very effective move,Juvia would have used it during :
-GMG-to Chelia or Lyon or the mini dragons
-Tartaros-to Keyes
-Avatar-to Briar or the cult members
-Alvarez-to the weakness robots or Invel(obviously impossible)

The spell's recent feat was in the Key of the Starry Heavens arc against Gattman the Cleaner. Whether he is human or not,he still has a nose,so he should've been suffocated at that point. Gajeel did the damage,Juvia only locked him.

I probably shouldn't have said that Lucy didn't have that much of a beating. What I meant was that she doesn't have a lot of magic that increases her defensive power.
And what makes you believe Juvia has an attacking power equal or greater to Hades,Franmalth,Jackal,Brandish or Mimi? All of them spells/curses were TANKED by Lucy even with no defensive spells. Are you saying Juvia is greater than any of them during their respective arcs???In fact,Juvia only won against Keyes because he is a skeleton. Had that not been the case,Juvia would DIE. Lucy outperformed Juvia during Tartaros arc. I think that was when Lucy finally surpassed Juvia by fair margin.

Lucy CAN'T just spam Urano Mentria so that is out of the picture. She needs gemini and/or immense emotional power. Wings of Love isn't a one use ability. She used it again in the Dragon Cry movie. Juvia was able to spam giant whirlpools in the middle of the battlefield so I would call that a power up.

How is UM out of the picture?lol. Lucy can use her strategy against Mimi to Juvia. Juvia and Aquarius were even in the GMG arc. Aquarius can even handle Juvia on her own. Add to that,Lucy can still summon 2 spirits other than Aquarius,or 3 spirits exclusive of Aquarius, so that would make atleast 2 spirits vs 1. Lucy can then summon Gemini and prepare the enchantment. No one other than Flare were able to survive or DODGE UM. Wait,Flare wasn't even hit by the spell because of that BS outside help. Had that hit her,GAME OVER. I don't think the spell requires immense emotional power. Lucy was able to use that because she had larger MP at her disposal or with a partner.
-Hibiki gave her knowledge plus his MP when Lucy used it first.
-She had Gemini against Flare
-She was given Aquarius MP against Jackal
-Was able to use it with Yukino(filler arc)
-With Gemini again against Mimi.

Juvia didn't show us using Wings of Love twice in a battle. Show me a panel of her with the feat of using it TWICE. Also,making her use it again and again would make the spell weak no?because it can't oneshot an opponent.lol. For the record,GMG arc and the movie were completely different scenarios/arcs. How does that support your argument?lol.

Call that whirlpool a powerup,or even that wave in Avatar arc,Aquarius has shown creating tsunami in the very 1st episode and in Galuna. Add to that,her water wave against Tartaros and Mimi. And how could you forget Lucy's Aqua Metria flooding the whole area where she fought Brandish and against Natsu in the cave when she was Yokai'd ang against Youko's yokai?

You may say that Juvia wasn't given enough screentime but that was also the case with Gildarts,Laxus,Mira and Gajeel. In fact,Juvia was given more screentime than all 4 of them due to her connection with Gray. Even with that,those I mentioned were still considered high tiers in the guild. Why?because their fights were against STRONG OPPONENTS or HIGH TIERS VILLAINS of each arc, and they won fairly. Juvia was clearly given WEAKER OPPONENTS or none at all. Clearly,she lacks FEATS on her own.

And LASTLY,Gemini or Lucy in Gemini form can copy Juvia and make her fight herself. Unless you believe Juvia > Lucy in MP which is impossible at this point. Juvia didn't show MP deficiency because she was seldomly present on 1-on-1 or even group fights unlike Lucy.
 

AWater22

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Again,I think you are stuck with Lucy at Phantom Lord Arc. Lucy was trapped in that water sphere because:
1. She was caught off guard.
2. Her fighting experience was at very minimal. In fact,the only battle she had at that time was against Sherry way back in Galuna arc. One would expect Lucy to fail at attacking or even defending herself at that time because she WAS very weak.

Are you suggesting that ones the keys where "locked" in a water,Lucy can't summon the spirits? I don't think suffocating the keys would make them unavailable for use. As I said,Juvia doesn't have Territory Magic or any space magic that would SEPARATE Lucy from her keys. She may be able to use water lock on them but I don't think that would prevent Lucy from summoning the Spirits. IF Lucy's feats on Elentir is permanent even in Earthland, the "long distance relationship with the keys" arguments will finally die.lol
And also,did you forget Horolugium,Virgo and Loki can open their gates on their own??especially when Lucy is in pinch??

Seriously though,Water Lock's feat is really OUTDATED. If that was a very effective move,Juvia would have used it during :
-GMG-to Chelia or Lyon or the mini dragons
-Tartaros-to Keyes
-Avatar-to Briar or the cult members
-Alvarez-to the weakness robots or Invel(obviously impossible)

The spell's recent feat was in the Key of the Starry Heavens arc against Gattman the Cleaner. Whether he is human or not,he still has a nose,so he should've been suffocated at that point. Gajeel did the damage,Juvia only locked him.



And what makes you believe Juvia has an attacking power equal or greater to Hades,Franmalth,Jackal,Brandish or Mimi? All of them spells/curses were TANKED by Lucy even with no defensive spells. Are you saying Juvia is greater than any of them during their respective arcs???In fact,Juvia only won against Keyes because he is a skeleton. Had that not been the case,Juvia would DIE. Lucy outperformed Juvia during Tartaros arc. I think that was when Lucy finally surpassed Juvia by fair margin.




How is UM out of the picture?lol. Lucy can use her strategy against Mimi to Juvia. Juvia and Aquarius were even in the GMG arc. Aquarius can even handle Juvia on her own. Add to that,Lucy can still summon 2 spirits other than Aquarius,or 3 spirits exclusive of Aquarius, so that would make atleast 2 spirits vs 1. Lucy can then summon Gemini and prepare the enchantment. No one other than Flare were able to survive or DODGE UM. Wait,Flare wasn't even hit by the spell because of that BS outside help. Had that hit her,GAME OVER. I don't think the spell requires immense emotional power. Lucy was able to use that because she had larger MP at her disposal or with a partner.
-Hibiki gave her knowledge plus his MP when Lucy used it first.
-She had Gemini against Flare
-She was given Aquarius MP against Jackal
-Was able to use it with Yukino(filler arc)
-With Gemini again against Mimi.

Juvia didn't show us using Wings of Love twice in a battle. Show me a panel of her with the feat of using it TWICE. Also,making her use it again and again would make the spell weak no?because it can't oneshot an opponent.lol. For the record,GMG arc and the movie were completely different scenarios/arcs. How does that support your argument?lol.

Call that whirlpool a powerup,or even that wave in Avatar arc,Aquarius has shown creating tsunami in the very 1st episode and in Galuna. Add to that,her water wave against Tartaros and Mimi. And how could you forget Lucy's Aqua Metria flooding the whole area where she fought Brandish and against Natsu in the cave when she was Yokai'd ang against Youko's yokai?

You may say that Juvia wasn't given enough screentime but that was also the case with Gildarts,Laxus,Mira and Gajeel. In fact,Juvia was given more screentime than all 4 of them due to her connection with Gray. Even with that,those I mentioned were still considered high tiers in the guild. Why?because their fights were against STRONG OPPONENTS or HIGH TIERS VILLAINS of each arc, and they won fairly. Juvia was clearly given WEAKER OPPONENTS or none at all. Clearly,she lacks FEATS on her own.

And LASTLY,Gemini or Lucy in Gemini form can copy Juvia and make her fight herself. Unless you believe Juvia > Lucy in MP which is impossible at this point. Juvia didn't show MP deficiency because she was seldomly present on 1-on-1 or even group fights unlike Lucy.
First of all, if Juvia locks lucy's keys and then makes them float away, lucy can't get to them and she can't open gates without touching her keys. Lol. Horologium is one use, Virgo can't effect Juvia, and Loke travelling is purely coincidental.

Second, What I meant was Lucy's lack of defensive spells left her to be able to be injured. She also lost a lot of MP.

Third, in all cases Lucy had to use UM to help her friends. I don't see this coming up in this particular battle. Plus, in all cases Lucy ran out of MP immediately after casting it. Both times Juvia casted it she was perfectly fine and was able to keep fighting. Both cases the opponent/s were defeated right after, so logically she should be able to use it again. Plus, UM requires a lengthy incantation so trap her in the water; "OH NO I CAN'T SPEAK". lol.

Fourth, Juvia's whirlpool is roughly equal to Lucy's water wave and flood, and she was able to SPAM the whirlpool. As far as I know Lucy hasn't got Aquarius back yet.

Last, as far as I know Juvia hasn't got enough feats, so saying Juvia < Lucy would be speculation. For the case of this fight Let's say Juvia = Lucy. Here is how I see the fight going:

1) The only immediate win would be if Juvia somehow separates Lucy from her keys or she "Love Rival" oneshots Lucy. lol
2) Legnthy fights would logically have Juvia win.
3) The fight will be comedy and they will stalemate like Juvia vs Shelia. lol
4) Lucy wins because she is the main character.

If we look at this match by feats technically Lucy is STRONGER than Juvia. But the matchup goes in the favor of Juvia because of what I mentioned in my first post.
 

grey matter

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At this point how is it debatable lol, Lucy >> Juvia

I'm fairy certain Loke or Aquarius would solo Juvia by themselves lol. They were Juvia tier back even in GMG. Lucy has shown far more improvement than Juvia since then, so her stronger spirits would solo Juvia now, it's just scaling.

Anyway, even if someone is skeptical about Lucy's spirits soloing Juvia. At the very least, they would be able to keep Juvia pre occupied for Lucy to use Urano metoria.

Or Lucy can even ignore spirits all together, go stardress mix, and defeat Juvia herself

Now, it is possible that Mashima thinks something entirely different, he doesn't care much about scaling, logic etc.
But, at least until that fight actually happens, or until Juvia shows feats demonstrating she is relative to Lucy, we have to go by feats shown thus far. Lucy >> Juvia
 

Kurumi Tokisaki

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Juvia offence is the same water slicer and water nebula that she has been spamming since phantom lord arc. The only new thing she learnt during is blood make which is not even suited for battles. Even Max has shown more growth than Juvia.
 

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I just don't understand the argument for Juvia. How is water lock going to make Lucy's keys float away? Lucy can literally just hold on to them. The only reason she let go of them in the Phantom arc was because she was drowning. I don't see how Lucy is going to drown wearing the Aquarius star dress. Doesn't that give her Aquarius' powers? Isn't one of those powers the ability to breathe underwater? Even if Lucy can't breathe underwater, she can still hold her breathe for a few minutes. This is more than enough time to counter water lock.
 

AWater22

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I just don't understand the argument for Juvia. How is water lock going to make Lucy's keys float away? Lucy can literally just hold on to them. The only reason she let go of them in the Phantom arc was because she was drowning. I don't see how Lucy is going to drown wearing the Aquarius star dress. Doesn't that give her Aquarius' powers? Isn't one of those powers the ability to breathe underwater? Even if Lucy can't breathe underwater, she can still hold her breathe for a few minutes. This is more than enough time to counter water lock.
The water lock spell was said to be inescapable by non-magical means. Lucy usually keeps her keys on her belt so if Juvia locks them before Lucy can reach for them Lucy won't be able to use magic.
 

Axiomus

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The water lock spell was said to be inescapable by non-magical means. Lucy usually keeps her keys on her belt so if Juvia locks them before Lucy can reach for them Lucy won't be able to use magic.
Star dress doesn't require her to have her keys. Especially the Aquarius star dress, which she's been using without Aquarius key all this time.
 
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