Discussion Luffy and Zoro

[Pirate Queen]

Why are you?
You make wild claims with no proof and keep dragging this on for no reason, until Luffy shows his COA has improved vs an actual person of note, his COA will be lower than Zoro's.
A rock and a tree will never be as resilient and durable as a person, you bringing up those useless panels just shows me that you dont get what " show me proff" is!

Is a tree and a rock more durable than a logia? if you thinks so then OK

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2019 ---

You cant use haki on air!

Go out and punch a tree then punch some one else... see which one hurts more.

You don't understand what resilient means to be using it I.in such a way.

Monet wasnt using haki to defend herself. Zoro cut skin... blowing up a tree is far more impressive than cutting skin. Are you daft?

Yea a tree is tougher than skin.

Tell me... which did more damage?

You cant because you can't admit you are wrong

 

[Pirate Queen]

I have never met a snowhuman before, but if you introduce me ill try

Sure, i guess i missed the chapter when Tree-sama and Rock-sama where introduced sa stronger than Monet

So the tree used haki to defend itself, is that what makes it impressive i missed that panel

Sure a tree is tougher than skin, but is a tree tougher than snowhuman who has snow so strong it can block swords, i dont know you tell me

damaging a logia is more impressive than damaging a tree

You still cant give me 1 panel to show how this haki is effective on people, so yeah okay my friend ......................................................

Wanna make another bet then?

You dont think Luffy's haki is effective against other people. I bet you it does. 1 more week with your least favorite character as your profile pic

 

[Shasha23]

Wanna make another bet then?

You dont think Luffy's haki is effective against other people. I bet you it does. 1 more week with your least favorite character as your profile pic

NOPE because you have been blind for some reason you have missed what i have said.

I said as of now Luffy's haki is weaker BECAUSE there are NO FEATS to say otherwise, but obviously when the fighting starts he will finally have feats, not this stupid tree and rock panels

 

[Pirate Queen]

NOPE because you have been blind for some reason you have missed what i have said.

I said as of now Luffy's haki is weaker BECAUSE there are NO FEATS to say otherwise, but obviously when the fighting starts he will finally have feats, not this stupid tree and rock panels

But your doing that even though we have manga confirmation that his haki is far more powerful and advanced than Zoro's.... that just like play dumb with extra steps.

Fine. You clearly can't be convinced... so on to the next topic

 

[Fox666]

damaging a logia is more impressive than damaging a tree

Luffy took down a giant with 1 punch, I don't think it being a tree or a person makes any difference for him

You cant use haki on air!

[citation needed]

 

[Fox666]

It makes a difference since people in One Piece are more durable than trees, iron and buildings

You seen to be missing the point, a punch from Luffy is 100% guarantee to K.O. Monet...

Manga clearly states haki can be used as a suit of armor around you and on objects

But Zoro clearly cut Pica from distance using Haki on his blades

 

[Shasha23]

You seen to be missing the point, a punch from Luffy is 100% guarantee to K.O. Monet...

I seem to remember him failing at that and having to run away from her

But Zoro clearly cut Pica from distance using Haki on his blades

When he cut Monet he never made contact with her, he extended his haki outwards and cut her cheek, he didnt put haki on his swords on anything, but when he cut Pica he clearly uses the force of his attacks power to cut him to pieces.
The difference here is that with Pica he used COA so he didnt damage his katana and to increase the force of their attacks.[/QUOTE]

 

[Fox666]

Whelp, that seems overcomplicated

To me it's obvious he simply used normal Haki to cut Monet's cheek

 

[HereNThere]

Not looking for a debate as that seems pointless, so I'm just going to drop some thoughts here real quick:

The concept of Black Blades has been mentioned a total 3 times in the series. In descending order those chapters are 955, 937, and 779.

This is what's said about Black Blades in each of those chapters...


There is nothing stating that Blade Blades are pinnacle of Haki. It's only been stated that they can be infused with Haki and "forged" into a Black Blade, with it being implied that doing so increases the Sword's Meito Rank/Grade.

Rather than arguing that Black Blades is superior to Ryou with no real basis, it could be argued that a mastery of Ryou will lead to a sword turning into a Black Blade. Given that Zoro is training to control Enma's forceful use of Ryou and it being the only blade of the 3 Zoro has in his possession that was pointed out as having the potential, it's likely that will be the case.

It also makes sense seeing as how Ryou affects things internally, which could mean that a Swordsman is using Ryou to affect the swords internal composition, making it permanently harder. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean that it's always using Haki, otherwise Zoro would've been able to deal more damage to Kuma and the Pacifista before the time skip.

Basically, both Luffy and Zoro were literally in the same chapter training to master the same technique. The only difference is Luffy had to learn from scratch while Zoro had Enma to give him a push.

 

[Fox666]

While it was never stated to be indestructible, that would be an interesting concept to explore. Is that how they made the Poneglyph...? Is Kaido and Big Mom bodies the same process applied to a living organism?

Random thought.

 

[nik87]

Black blades revolve more around Hardening than around Flow.
While Hardening's main goal is to harden things, Flow's main goal never was declared as making something harder.
As we can see from the screenshot, Black Blade's characteristic is hardness and considering it's achieved by only 1 living person it is safe to assume that it represents the highest grade of hardness one can achieve with Hardening haki and that it is not necessarily connected to Haki flow since the purpose of that Haki is something else.

Is Kaido and Big Mom bodies the same process applied to a living organism?

I think not because, 5 year old BM was breaking Giant's sword and she achieving haki in the first place at that age is a lot to ask for and not to mention some special mastery of it being imbued in her body... Kaido doesnt seem human and his natural hardness could be from the race he belongs to while his scales are DF given.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Go out and punch a tree then punch some one else... see which one hurts more.

Probably the someone else... since he hits back.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Probably the someone else... since he hits back.

With the strength of a tree? Lol okay sure

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2019 ---

Not looking for a debate as that seems pointless, so I'm just going to drop some thoughts here real quick:

The concept of Black Blades has been mentioned a total 3 times in the series. In descending order those chapters are 955, 937, and 779.

This is what's said about Black Blades in each of those chapters...


There is nothing stating that Blade Blades are pinnacle of Haki. It's only been stated that they can be infused with Haki and "forged" into a Black Blade, with it being implied that doing so increases the Sword's Meito Rank/Grade.

Rather than arguing that Black Blades is superior to Ryou with no real basis, it could be argued that a mastery of Ryou will lead to a sword turning into a Black Blade. Given that Zoro is training to control Enma's forceful use of Ryou and it being the only blade of the 3 Zoro has in his possession that was pointed out as having the potential, it's likely that will be the case.

It also makes sense seeing as how Ryou affects things internally, which could mean that a Swordsman is using Ryou to affect the swords internal composition, making it permanently harder. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean that it's always using Haki, otherwise Zoro would've been able to deal more damage to Kuma and the Pacifista before the time skip.

Basically, both Luffy and Zoro were literally in the same chapter training to master the same technique. The only difference is Luffy had to learn from scratch while Zoro had Enma to give him a push.

I hate to say your wasting your breath because your analysis is such a great read but Black Blades = Greatest CoA in verse doesn't seem like a theory Zoro/Mihawk fans are going to drop despite lack of proof.

Luffy and Zoro were mastering the technique in the same chapter was a good clue that Luffy has surpassed the Advanced Ryou and was now developing the stage beyond that, hence how he blew up the tree without touching it....

Zoro looks like he is nearly finished mastering Enma's ryou stealing ability.

Overall I enjoyed your assessment of Black Blades! Great comment!

 

[Sachsenhesse]

With the strength of a tree? Lol okay sure

Well first off .. it depends on the size of that tree. And second, ever punched someone for real?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well first off .. it depends on the size of that tree. And second, ever punched someone for real?

Yes i have actually and it's easier to cut someone's cheek than it is to explode a tree. That fact that your even trying to make a comparison is astounding lol

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Zoro having better CoA than Luffy certainly isnt in the manga.

You said Zoro is supposed to have the best CoA in the history of One Piece... but Luffy learned a form far more advance on the matter of a WEEK.

I couldn't imagine how insulted Zoro fans are. I can see why you want to ignore actual manga to keep up you.

Find a panel that refutes this

SHOWING WITHOUT A DOUBT that Luffy's haki is > Zoro's haki

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2019 ---

No they can't Luffy's haki is more advanced that that

Zoro's sword doesn't need more haki to enter the enemy. It's a sword

And this also means that being able to hurt kaido without the use of this ability makes it so Enma's output is just so huge that it cuts Kaido the normal way.

That said, G4 is probably better than Asura overall.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And this also means that being able to hurt kaido without the use of this ability makes it so Enma's output is just so huge that it cuts Kaido the normal way.

It's the only way to hurt Kaido outside of attacking Kaido from within. No ones disputing this. I agree with you. This hasn't been contradicted in anyway

 

[Aizen]

Moderator Notice:
Remember to stay on topic everyone. While the Haki comparison is related to their respective strength, it is derailing the thread. ~ Aizen

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

It's the only way to hurt Kaido outside of attacking Kaido from within. No ones disputing this. I agree with you. This hasn't been contradicted in anyway

But it's also valid for everyone other than Kaido. Something that can hurt Kaido, the strongest creature, can hurt everyone else: Mihawk, Garp, Dragon, Akainu, and basically every top tier in the series. And most will probably be messed up by it since their defenses aren't necessarily as great as Kaido.

 

[Pirate Queen]

But it's also valid for everyone other than Kaido. Something that can hurt Kaido, the strongest creature, can hurt everyone else: Mihawk, Garp, Dragon, Akainu, and basically every top tier in the series. And most will probably be messed up by it since their defenses aren't necessarily as great as Kaido.

I understand. That just speaks to how extremely overpowered this Haki can grow into. Luffy hasn't used it on any Top Tiers yet. So we can expect it to not be in it's best form at the beginning of the fights.

You comment is why the best guess is that Rayliegh is the ONLY person to have this kind of haki, unless he explained it to others and they somehow awakened it

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2019 ---

Also Luffy never has to worry about having a bunch of little kids while Zoro will probably have lots of babies, get a dad bod and just give up.

Luffy doesnt have to worry about getting chicks knocked up because he... always has that rubber on him

Luffy > Zoro

Mods, please lock the account. Winner has been decided.