Games Mafia Game 103 - Chainsam Pan: End Game

[Copy Panda]

Spoiler: Here are zhe night actions!

I thank you all for playing! It was an entertaining game to spectate. I hope most enjoyed the gameplay as well! Thank you to my fellow co-host @SirSamuel016 (and briefly @Farfalla) for providing the necessary support and inputs during the game! Once again thank you @Valhalla for the avatars! And most of all, congratulations mafia team (as the kids say nowadays) for copping the W! Also shoutouts to @GB for not speaking the truth once this game!

It was a simple but engaging experience. As you can see, the ???? was just another townie. In hindsight perhaps not as impactful but it was very omo seeing you all speculate over the identity of this mystery role. Unfortunately, in this sterile environment, we didn't get to trial the devil properly, as they both passed quickly. I think in special circumstances the potential is there, it is rather powerful in a more role-heavy comp. There are just enough secondaries for the psychiatrist to put IQ into analyzing their result (a difficult role to play in this game). Bomb's dominant strategy I think was somehow getting the mafia to kill them (feigning devil? ). Freeman... Died uncovered. And also came out quite early. If they had to die, that was probably the best time. The traitors deployed interesting strategies. Very exotic approach. Mafia overall played pretty decent; the first few nights town mislynched and only towards the mid-to-end did non-towns start perishing.

I am curious what you thought of the game and each other's performances! Was town too lazy? Was ???? too spicy? Did non-town play strong enough? Curious what you guys think of such role- and mechanicless comps ~

Once again, thank you, everyone! It was super spicy


​

 

[GrySun]

Seraph is just kidding i‘m sure..

 

[Lambu]

Af caus you don't, cause I didn't make him a reasonable option.



I was legit arguing on you guys saying devils ofc should act like dets and leave it like that, wanting to defend why leaving it open had many merits and building possibilities for THAT.

Kinda wanna drop that alrdy, rly. I feel it's less taxing if you'll keep suspecting me, vote, chase me, wtv could come from that than to keep arguing now.

Very well then, its not like I had intentions of voting you today anyway and I would rather you being a town that I misunderstood for the time being to keep my thoughts ordered.

Thoughts on shinobi's answers about her suspicions and what she wants to say about the game state?

 

[Seraph]

Yeah i am, but my words hold too much weight at this point, they can't just go and ignore me. Instead they rather waste 2 of their votes.

 

[Lambu]

Seraph is just kidding i‘m sure..

Is he? Is there something in his behaviour that makes you think he's a fed up town? Or perhaps that he's feigning being fed up?
You really didn't feel anything strange from his game approach yesterday and today, its a fact that he actively didn't respond to Farf's inquiries.

 

[Farfalla]

Thoughts on shinobi's answers about her suspicions and what she wants to say about the game state?

I'll get to that soon, I'm building a post on everybody. Just checking many posts cause some people got me to reconsider stuff.

 

[GrySun]

Is he? Is there something in his behaviour that makes you think he's a fed up town? Or perhaps that he's feigning being fed up?
You really didn't feel anything strange from his game approach yesterday and today, its a fact that he actively didn't respond to Farf's inquiries.

Like I said I often do misplace trust in Seraph all game like in Magi game, but I‘m really not finding problems in what he says. If he‘s just feigning being fed up he should consider acting, because it feels really genuine to me.

Weird, I thought I saw him respond to most inquiries today. As for his approach, I said I can see it, + Seraph was always rather anti-people that vote him, like James did iirc, so it all adds up to me currently.

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

Didnt even see that !

 

[Seraph]

So basically, the only things against me are that i am not actually losing my shit about all this and instead am actually enjoying myself. And that i didn't wanna build several cases in which it would make sense for James to have lied about having a role or not for Farf? Right?

 

[Shad]

Just assumed you're reading the posts, I don't get why you threw your vote away like that.

My vote is not thrown, it has every possible kill intent behind it.
This is called using the vote not throwing it.

Why Gry?

Chapter 1: The Fake Intervention

- His vote on D1 is fake, he stated he will intervene to save seraph and james.

I‘ll be more active near the end.

I am considering switching, especially if I see others try and do switches. Not letting Seraph and James die, and would prefer several over Marm but not as strongly hm.

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But his actual vote is completely irrelevant.
He didn't go for a kill, but just moved it to shinobo who nobody was even talking about, they was no reason anybody else would vote her, so he knew she would stay at 2 votes and he also voted last.

He still changed his vote because he felt pressured by this posts.

I know Gry is not the kind to not have an opinion, he said he will be back but isn't posting even tho he has been back for +30 minutes.

So he made his useless vote move.

Chapter 2: The Fake Piper

His initial thoughts on D1 were all meant to mislead town in the wrong direction.

One of his first post of the day!

I never liked the Marm lynch, did mention I‘d want an afker so went with it. Was unlikely to affect anything at such sort notice though.

Later in the same post.

At least Marm wasn‘t death miller to further screw us over. I‘d believe mafia would always try to join a lynchwagon on the off-chance one of the many vanillas is DM so they get extra credibility for no cost. So I bet there is at least 1 scum among Marm voters.

This idea that a 3 mafia team would lynch a town as second or third voter (instead of just lucking out with a first placeholder vote) is laughable, he justify it by the reward that if by some miracle the person lynched is Death Miller it will be a perfect move.

First nobody even considered this, did any of you think of this possibility? Sounds like something he tought about in the Night phase as something to misslead town with.

Second it has a 1% chance of success, even if you think of it you won't do it.

Third this goes against my vote analysis that that whole shit show at the end was 100% town doing, mafia is very likely to be among the placeholder voters or if ballsy to make useless Intervention moves like Gry, Gry knew marm wasn't mafia so he tried to put himself in a position where he can say I told you!

He then spends the day arguing with Farfalla.

Chapter 3: The humble scum

I spent all game as usual talking and testing Gry, I do this every game as town.
It will take too long to recite, but the gist of it is:

He handled my attack as expected by ignoring it and he acknowledged that this is normal behavior from me.
(Trying to get on my good side).

Day 2, tatsumaki get killed without a reason.
My explanation is that mafia:
- Was afraid to conflict with ??? possible kill
- Was expecting Farf and Lambu to be suspects for killing Marm
- Killing Farf would put a countdown on Gry's life expectancy (he will have to die next or be suspected).
- Delaying Farf kill, gives him enough days to get to D4 where town throws and Gry is unstoppable.

With farf being very green (as much as you can be in a vanilla game) and Lambu somehow not triggering my scum alarms.
This plan has backfired as it clear Gry is a better kill than Tatsu if mafia doesn't know the roles.

When confronted with the question of how he explains Tatsu being killed over him he says:

Shad this line of thinking isn‘t cute or funny anymore.

He acts like the idea that he should be dead if no doctor is alien, he is very humble it seems xD
While the truth is, we all know that unless we spam body guard or doctor on him, he won't live past N1.

The fact he didn't acknowledge that this put him in a bad light, shows that he is in bad faith.

Chapter 4: The Confrontation

Scum Gry attacked me from D1 until D3 exclusively 2 games ago and got me lynched.

The reason I attacked him first thing in the day, is to see if he will try to do it again, I was ready for it this time.

As expected he saw through my plan and choose the appeasement route.

Saying this is normal Shad and that I look fine and so on, trying to get me to trust him.

Day 2 I confronted him again about being alive.

This time he used the Shad is Obsessed argument.

The same Argument he used 2 games ago to get me killed.

I know for a fact he doesn't believe this idea, he used it as scum to kill me 2 games ago when I attacked him.

He is using it again to say isolate me and make me look like a crazy fan girl to avoid other to follow my request to vote on him.

The fact he hit me under the belt is the sign I was searching for since Day 1 to know for sure he is scum, he fucked up by playing this card, now I'm on him until the end of time.

~

I probably missed a lot of things, but meeting in 5 minutes.

This is a game about feeling and perception and I believe my read on Gry has been always accurate.
If what it takes is for town to throw another game before they start taking me serieusly so be it, I'm completely ok with losing this game, my vote won't budge from him until one of us dies.

The idea that it safe to leave Gry alive until D4 is dumb.

- He is the mastermind of mafia, killing the head should be a priority.
- If he gets to D4 there is no more killing him, he is very used to winning as mafia, if you guys could kill him late in the game he wouldn't be winning so much as mafia!
- We need to lynch mafia, not leave the highest suspect alive and go lynch people with less chance, just because it Gry >.<


~
I voted already, now I just sit back and watch you guys throw as usual xD

 

[Farfalla]

And the evasive self-comiseration to me. Which could be an old mistake we make, I'll aknowledge that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

I didn't vote Marma when I saw pom and you locking on me and farf going around saying she'd vote me and such.

Ah, while I'm backreading: that shouldn't be a threat to you at all since I said that in the last min (with basically no time for people to respond to) and while my vote was locked, with Marm having a pile on her at that point. Weird defense, imo.

 

[Shad]

His initial thoughts on D1 were all meant to mislead town in the wrong direction.

D2*

 

[Mazino]

Nice to see your inputs but you can also comment on other big discussions that happened, yeah.
It doesn't matter if you'll echo people. Later on, whenever there are findings, we can check back on stances.

ok. these quotes down there.

But why did James need you specifically to not die? Was 3-2 in favor of Marm, didn‘t look like anyone wanted to jump on James. I thought Pom would but then she concluded on shino, so James was safe. Why I mean it‘s odd to feel that much restricted in your options, and even if someone else voted James I think Marm had more locks too.

well then, i kinda agree with this from gry

though i didnt like the lambu gry duo dynamic

Was it like that tho? gnut came here last 5 minutes, asked why James/Seraph/Marma are at the lynch. Lambu told him let's kill Marma she doesn't give good feeling something like that. gnut then: ok, votekill marma.

and what shinobi says here about gnut. didnt like that one bit as stated before and thats why i voted gnut for now. but lets see what will come up

 

[Farfalla]

and what shinobi says here about gnut. didnt like that one bit as stated before and thats why i voted gnut for now. but lets see what will come up

Why didn't you or @shinobi like that?

 

[shinobi]

Pretty bad response, not the one I would expect from a town searching for scum.

Ok so your point is Im like "gnut's boss" and in the middle of that voting madness I went and told him "vote this" and he obeyed. Nice

Why do I feel like I already found one for today?

 

[Mazino]

Why didn't you or @shinobi like that?

as i told above. with me it was just gut feeling before he voted marm. then after he voted her and the way he voted her made me vote him this day too.
and shinobis view is explained in the quote up there isnt it

 

[Asako]

You don't believe he vote changed to save james that claimed freeman, at least that's how i see his vote change

Enlighten us

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

The way you're talking if you believe gnut is scum, shouldn't lambu also be scum ? At least from the explanation you gave
This is more for mazino as shino is suspicious of lambu for that

 

[Mazino]

Ok so your point is Im like "gnut's boss" and in the middle of that voting madness I went and told him "vote this" and he obeyed. Nice

i think that makes him sus not you.

 

[shinobi]

Ah, while I'm backreading: that shouldn't be a threat to you at all since I said that in the last min (with basically no time for people to respond to) and while my vote was locked, with Marm having a pile on her at that point. Weird defense, imo.

What defense? I wasn't defending myself of anything when I said that. And I meant the 1 or 2 posts you made before you locked your vote on Marma, not the one at the end. you said you were considering changing your vote on me. Please read the post that I made this post in response to as well.

 

[Mazino]

You don't believe he vote changed to save james that claimed freeman, at least that's how i see his vote change

Enlighten us

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

The way you're talking if you believe gnut is scum, shouldn't lambu also be scum ? At least from the explanation you gave
This is more for mazino as shino is suspicious of lambu

nah why. clever mafia blends in with town. if lambu is town and gnut as mafia uses his suggestion. makes gnut look less sus.

but i prolly cant mention often enough. i go with my gut feeling

 

[GrySun]

My vote is not thrown, it has every possible kill intent behind it.
This is called using the vote not throwing it.

Why Gry?

Chapter 1: The Fake Intervention

- His vote on D1 is fake, he stated he will intervene to save seraph and james.

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But his actual vote is completely irrelevant.
He didn't go for a kill, but just moved it to shinobo who nobody was even talking about, they was no reason anybody else would vote her, so he knew she would stay at 2 votes and he also voted last.

He still changed his vote because he felt pressured by this posts.



So he made his useless vote move.

Chapter 2: The Fake Piper

His initial thoughts on D1 were all meant to mislead town in the wrong direction.

One of his first post of the day!



Later in the same post.



This idea that a 3 mafia team would lynch a town as second or third voter (instead of just lucking out with a first placeholder vote) is laughable, he justify it by the reward that if by some miracle the person lynched is Death Miller it will be a perfect move.

First nobody even considered this, did any of you think of this possibility? Sounds like something he tought about in the Night phase as something to misslead town with.

Second it has a 1% chance of success, even if you think of it you won't do it.

Third this goes against my vote analysis that that whole shit show at the end was 100% town doing, mafia is very likely to be among the placeholder voters or if ballsy to make useless Intervention moves like Gry, Gry knew marm wasn't mafia so he tried to put himself in a position where he can say I told you!

He then spends the day arguing with Farfalla.

Chapter 3: The humble scum

I spent all game as usual talking and testing Gry, I do this every game as town.
It will take too long to recite, but the gist of it is:

He handled my attack as expected by ignoring it and he acknowledged that this is normal behavior from me.
(Trying to get on my good side).

Day 2, tatsumaki get killed without a reason.
My explanation is that mafia:
- Was afraid to conflict with ??? possible kill
- Was expecting Farf and Lambu to be suspects for killing Marm
- Killing Farf would put a countdown on Gry's life expectancy (he will have to die next or be suspected).
- Delaying Farf kill, gives him enough days to get to D4 where town throws and Gry is unstoppable.

With farf being very green (as much as you can be in a vanilla game) and Lambu somehow not triggering my scum alarms.
This plan has backfired as it clear Gry is a better kill than Tatsu if mafia doesn't know the roles.

When confronted with the question of how he explains Tatsu being killed over him he says:



He acts like the idea that he should be dead if no doctor is alien, he is very humble it seems xD
While the truth is, we all know that unless we spam body guard or doctor on him, he won't live past N1.

The fact he didn't acknowledge that this put him in a bad light, shows that he is in bad faith.

Chapter 4: The Confrontation

Scum Gry attacked me from D1 until D3 exclusively 2 games ago and got me lynched.

The reason I attacked him first thing in the day, is to see if he will try to do it again, I was ready for it this time.

As expected he saw through my plan and choose the appeasement route.

Saying this is normal Shad and that I look fine and so on, trying to get me to trust him.

Day 2 I confronted him again about being alive.

This time he used the Shad is Obsessed argument.

The same Argument he used 2 games ago to get me killed.

I know for a fact he doesn't believe this idea, he used it as scum to kill me 2 games ago when I attacked him.

He is using it again to say isolate me and make me look like a crazy fan girl to avoid other to follow my request to vote on him.

The fact he hit me under the belt is the sign I was searching for since Day 1 to know for sure he is scum, he fucked up by playing this card, now I'm on him until the end of time.

~

I probably missed a lot of things, but meeting in 5 minutes.

This is a game about feeling and perception and I believe my read on Gry has been always accurate.
If what it takes is for town to throw another game before they start taking me serieusly so be it, I'm completely ok with losing this game, my vote won't budge from him until one of us dies.

The idea that it safe to leave Gry alive until D4 is dumb.

- He is the mastermind of mafia, killing the head should be a priority.
- If he gets to D4 there is no more killing him, he is very used to winning as mafia, if you guys could kill him late in the game he wouldn't be winning so much as mafia!
- We need to lynch mafia, not leave the highest suspect alive and go lynch people with less chance, just because it Gry >.<


~
I voted already, now I just sit back and watch you guys throw as usual xD

Wow Shad, now we‘re back to it being cute and funny The main problem with your whole analysis is that you approach everything with „Gry is scum“ in mind from the get-go.You can do this to anyone‘s posts and frame them badly, but doesn‘t change that it falls apart if you don‘t look at it all with „Gry scum“ glasses.
Like, there‘s little I can say here to change your mind since it all assumes way too many things, that are assumed for out of game reasons. I could go through your points one by one and will do so if people other than you want me to, since you‘re too „convinced“ for it to lead anywhere.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2022 ---

The super short version of what’s flawed:
-chapter 1 ignores all my posts with Pom on switching to someone else(since me switching alone does nothing and I wanted more votes)
-chapter 2 is simply you disagreeing. Mafia in your mind never vote on leading lynch, only when they must save a friend. If that were true this game would be so easy.
-chapter 3 is you not understanding how genius Gry could possibly be left unkilled by mafia on N1, when there‘s endless hypothetical reasons
-chapter 4 is you seeing patterns to old games where there are none. You are obsessed, no better way to describe this sort of focusing over nothing.