Discussion Mihawk's Power Level

[kkck]

So when Shanks attacked Kaido and his army of Zoan users, he did ok for himself because Beckmann, Roux, and Yasopp can take on Kaido?
Yes, a Yonkou's crew is important and part of why the WG fears them, but it takes more than a strong crew to attack Kaido and come out in one piece. Do you think Mihawk can go 1v1 with Kaido?

Jinbei may have had a crew at one point, but it doesn't seem like he did as a Shichibukai. More importantly, when they were called to Marineford, it was them called for, not their crews. Boa and Doflamingo fought alone. The WG wants them, pardoning their crew is just a perk of the job. Buggy getting the bat for his crew is the exception, not the norm.

MIhawk individually against kaido alone? I don't see any reason why not to be honest. I am of the school of thought that mihawk even today is actually a match to good old shanks, kaido's fellow yonko. Regardless of whether he wins the guy should be able to be a match.

I don't think buggy's shichibukai deal was any different from the other shichibukai. Even luffy would have been spared from trouble by fujitora had law bothered to word things differently IIRC.

 

[M3J]

We did not see DDs crew until his own arc, plus Kuma was a revolutionary so they are his "crew", but he might have some sort of crew here and there. Mihawk can also have a crew ... we just have not seem them as the central antagonists I think. But then again the status of the crew and Shichi is not actually solved in OP.

True, but it's been implied he had his own crew given Bellamy and the human/fishman dealer/auctioneer at Shabondy Park. We saw some signs he had his own crew.

True, but I'm talking about leading one's own crew. Kuma is unknown and could go either way. Mihawk seems to not have a crew since there's no implication whatsoever. He was never shown talking to anyone potentially from his crew or anyone from a crew that he used to be in.

Jinbei may have had a crew at one point, but it doesn't seem like he did as a Shichibukai. More importantly, when they were called to Marineford, it was them called for, not their crews. Boa and Doflamingo fought alone. The WG wants them, pardoning their crew is just a perk of the job. Buggy getting the bat for his crew is the exception, not the norm.

He definitely has a crew even now, since he mentioned having to withdraw from Big Mom so he could join Luffy. At the least, he'll have his crew up until he joins Luffy. As a shichibukai, only time we ever saw him was when he was chained up, after which he revoked his title as shichibukai. None of the shichibukai had their crew with them, apart from Crocodile and Mr. 1. No idea why, but probably to avoid any confusion if hte Marines did not know all of the shichibukai's crew?

 

[RichardMNixon]

I don't think buggy's shichibukai deal was any different from the other shichibukai.

I don't mean his deal, I mean the reason for his offer. Buggy was invited for his relationships and crew - the others weren't. Doflamingo, Law, and Hancock were invited because the WG wanted them. The WG didn't care about Diamante, Bepo, or Sandersonia.

He definitely has a crew even now, since he mentioned having to withdraw from Big Mom so he could join Luffy. At the least, he'll have his crew up until he joins Luffy. As a shichibukai, only time we ever saw him was when he was chained up, after which he revoked his title as shichibukai. None of the shichibukai had their crew with them, apart from Crocodile and Mr. 1. No idea why, but probably to avoid any confusion if hte Marines did not know all of the shichibukai's crew?

Where did he mention having a crew in that? He could just be by himself, but under Big Mom.
I don't think confusion has anything to do with it, I think it's just Doflamingo the shichibukai, not the Donquixote pirates the shichibukai crew. Doflamingo is who the government wants, his underlings are incidental.

 

[M3J]

Jinbei and King Neptune mention the crew here. He and his crew were under Big Mom.

Could be the confusion as well, since only the shichibukai were present. No Hancock's crew, Doflamingo's crew despite their power, or even Moria's crew (or prepared crew).

Mihawk by himself would definitely be just below Yonkou, and with a decent crew, he could even be equal to a Yonkou.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Could be the confusion as well, since only the shichibukai were present. No Hancock's crew, Doflamingo's crew despite their power, or even Moria's crew (or prepared crew).

That's the entire point I'm trying to make. Buggy is the only shichibukai to get the invitation based on his crew. For the others, the WG doesn't care about their crew. The WG didn't invite Doflamingo's crew because Doflamingo is who they want.

 

[kkck]

I don't mean his deal, I mean the reason for his offer. Buggy was invited for his relationships and crew - the others weren't. Doflamingo, Law, and Hancock were invited because the WG wanted them. The WG didn't care about Diamante, Bepo, or Sandersonia.

Ah ok, I see. I don't think he was named a shichibukai for his crew though, as far as we know the WG has quite a high opinion of him.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2656-11/one-piece/chapter-549.html
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2656-12/one-piece/chapter-549.html

I would argue this particular bit is what made them consider buggy as a shichibukai rather than his crew. That bit is specially relevant if we consider crews are rarely relevant at all in naming shichibukai. Buggy is seen by the world government as a former crewmember of roger and BFF of shanks. They even thought him a friend of ace (well, he was but the whole thing adds buggy's list of convenient acquaintances). Odds are the world government thinks they avoided a potential yonko by making buggy into a shichibukai.

 

[Schabrak]

And don't forget to add how he talked to Whitebeard later on. Being respected by Newgate was like a knightly accolade.

Rereading 549 I have to say that we need Buggy back as soon as possible, it's clear why he would be Oda's favourite character. I'm dying of laughter right now. XD

 

[M3J]

That's the entire point I'm trying to make. Buggy is the only shichibukai to get the invitation based on his crew. For the others, the WG doesn't care about their crew. The WG didn't invite Doflamingo's crew because Doflamingo is who they want.

The question is... why wouldn't they care about the crew when some of the crew members are strong enough to aid in fight?

Ah ok, I see. I don't think he was named a shichibukai for his crew though, as far as we know the WG has quite a high opinion of him.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2656-11/one-piece/chapter-549.html
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2656-12/one-piece/chapter-549.html

I would argue this particular bit is what made them consider buggy as a shichibukai rather than his crew. That bit is specially relevant if we consider crews are rarely relevant at all in naming shichibukai. Buggy is seen by the world government as a former crewmember of roger and BFF of shanks. They even thought him a friend of ace (well, he was but the whole thing adds buggy's list of convenient acquaintances). Odds are the world government thinks they avoided a potential yonko by making buggy into a shichibukai.

Doesn't seem like a high opinion at all. They suspect him because he's running with Luffy, not because they acknowledge him as a powerful or respected pirate. We have plenty of people mentioning the freed prisoners and how powerful they are during the war. I think the World Government just wanted to avoid the chances of going against the freed prisoners and thought their power would be valuable asset, so Buggy became shichibukai.

And don't forget to add how he talked to Whitebeard later on. Being respected by Newgate was like a knightly accolade.

Rereading 549 I have to say that we need Buggy back as soon as possible, it's clear why he would be Oda's favourite character. I'm dying of laughter right now. XD

Don't forget that Whitebeard and Marco thought Buggy was not a threat at all, but the freed prisoners would present challenge. Whitebeard didn't really respect Buggy at all... in fact, I don't think anyone did, except for Shanks. Not counting his current crew, of course.

 

[kkck]

The question is... why wouldn't they care about the crew when some of the crew members are strong enough to aid in fight?

Doesn't seem like a high opinion at all. They suspect him because he's running with Luffy, not because they acknowledge him as a powerful or respected pirate. We have plenty of people mentioning the freed prisoners and how powerful they are during the war. I think the World Government just wanted to avoid the chances of going against the freed prisoners and thought their power would be valuable asset, so Buggy became shichibukai.


Don't forget that Whitebeard and Marco thought Buggy was not a threat at all, but the freed prisoners would present challenge. Whitebeard didn't really respect Buggy at all... in fact, I don't think anyone did, except for Shanks. Not counting his current crew, of course.

The words from that marine are "To think that a man such as yourself had succeeded in concealing himself, causing no major incidents... / ...lurking right under our noses for so long... only now to finally show himself once more."

Right now the marines and the world government think of buggy exactly as they would of someone who could stand alongside roger, shanks or ace. Heck, those words were said before they even knew those guys would follow buggy to their graves. Up to that point they merely thought buggy was a bigger player in the escape plan than 2 former shichibukai and 2 important revolutionaries. I admit that it is weird to think of buggy as someone strong but the issue here is that the world government has not seen what we have seen. With buggy what they see is a former roger pirate they were unfamiliar with and avoided detection for 22 years, a man responsible for the single greatest blow to ID ever and who was given more importance in the case than 2 shichibukai and 2 revolutionaries, a man who took all those escaped prisoners and unified them under his flag to unleash hell during the war. Heck, as far as the entire world is concerned buggy survived an encounter with mihawk without a scratch. The prisoners might be a perk as far as the world government is concerned but they definitely gave the title to buggy thinking they were getting someone worthy of being in roger's crew and a friend of a yonko. For us it is definitely weird to think of buggy as strong but the WG guys have not seen what we have seen about buggy. Their perspective and what they have seen have nothing to do with what oda has cared to show us readers.

 

[M3J]

The chances are, they only assume Buggy as being dangerous due to him having been part of Roger's crew. Otherwise I haven't seen anyone else out of his crew talk to him like that, as if he was dangerous or someone to be respected or feared. I forgot who said that, but one person alone would not mean Buggy himself is feared.

Right now, yes. The only reason why the Marines and the World Government think Buggy could stand alongside Shanks, Ace, or Roger is because of the former prisoners. I forgot when the comment was made, but if it was during the war, then it was likely due to the prisoners. I also don't remember them thinking Buggy was a bigger player, but if they were, then that's probably due to Buggy being seen with Luffy first, and likely because he did try to escape before two former shichibukai and Revolutionaries were free.

The World Government doesn't need to. Even Whitebeard and Marco thought Buggy wasn't worth a thing, but they acknowledged his crew. I guess we can agree to disagree on why Buggy became shichibukai, given I rarely see anyone praising him at all.

Oda has showed us that Whitebeard and Marco did not care about Buggy as a threat, and the Marines, at least Sengoku, pointed out the freed prisoners many times.

 

[Deus Machina]

Unlike the common misconception that all Yonko are stronger than Admirals I feel that the power structure is not quite clear. There are Admirals who are stronger than Yonko. This is a purely subjective ranking as to how I feel the structure stands as of now.

WB > Shanks >= Akainu > Kizaru = Kaido >= Fujitora = Green Bull > Blackbeard > BIG MUM > Mihawk.

This is manga information that depicts the feats of all the characters who I have placed above Mihawk.
WB: Rodger's equal, an OP tank, WSM and possessed the strongest paramecia. Had enough crew/allies to fill a football stadium.
Kaido: King of the beasts, large army of NW zoan fighters, believed he was capable of taking out WB.
Shanks: Former Rodger pirate, only non-DF Yonko which has led belief of having the strongest haki. Stopped an entire war by challenging both pirates and marines who wanted to fight. His skill with the sword had the WSS sort him out to duel. Oda has stated himself that he hasn't lost ANY of his strength despite losing an arm. [The manga(WB) was hyping Shanks when they said he fought Mihawk.
BIG MUM: She god damn ate a dude whole! Has maintained Yonko position with the other three. Proof of her strength or she is a great tactician. Has made a move on another Yonko's business partner.
BB: Strongest logia and paramecia user. Took over all WB territories seamlessly. [Remember Yonko always en-roach on each others territories. Yet somehow BB is still in business]
Admirals: Marineford Arc gave a taste of Admiral power while Punk Hazard was the full course. The Admiral offensive fire power consists or but not entirely Hax DF abilities, Haki, Rokushiki and specific weapons.

Word to the wise there is no f*cking Yonko level because Yonkos range from WSM Whitebeard to Pre TS Blackbeard who was weaker than some top tiers.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

in 1 on 1 combat

Mihawk > Shanks > akainu > kizaru = Fujitora = Green Bull = blackbeard > BIG MUM = kaido

 

[Schabrak]

Unlike the common misconception that all Yonko are stronger than Admirals I feel that the power structure is not quite clear. There are Admirals who are stronger than Yonko. This is a purely subjective ranking as to how I feel the structure stands as of now.

WB > Shanks >= Akainu > Kizaru = Kaido >= Fujitora = Green Bull > Blackbeard > BIG MUM > Mihawk.

Word to the wise there is no f*cking Yonko level because Yonkos range from WSM Whitebeard to Pre TS Blackbeard who was weaker than some top tiers.

How is it a misconception, when it's the way Oda has presented them so far?

Shanks and his crew had no wounds when they arrived at MF, so what makes you think that Shanks is stronger than Kaidou? They could have simply talked and made a deal. Why are Fujitora/Green Bull weaker, only because they are the new ones? And in which freaking dimension is Blackbeard, the person with the two strongest known fruits placed near the bottom? It's almost like you really think that Teach hasn't learned to control the powers we have been able to glimpse at during the end of the war. Let me repeat that: Pre TS Shichibukai Teach != Post TS Yonkou Teach.



Word from the wisest, there are no power levels at all in One Piece.

in 1 on 1 combat

Mihawk > Shanks > akainu > kizaru = Fujitora = Green Bull = blackbeard > BIG MUM = kaido

How about we[you] actually elaborate on what we post?

 

[DutchPhoenix]

How about we[you] actually elaborate on what we post?

Mihawk (mihawk is superior to shanks because oda gave mihawk the title strongest swordsman in the world, and hes zoros final target)> Shanks (i think shanks bit stronger then akainu, but im not sure about that)> akainu > kizaru = Fujitora = Green Bull = blackbeard (although i think soon blackbeard will be the strongest)> BIG MUM = kaido

 

[Schabrak]

I already heard that a couple of times from you already( in this very thread if you need that reminder too^^), but what about the rest, the "Akainu>Kizaru=Fujitora=Green Bull=Blackbeard>Big Mom=Kaidou" part.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

i dont see big mom winning from an admiral in 1 on 1, same goes for kaido.
Admirals were very very powerfull.
Just look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBfQkWO0oes

 

[M3J]

Mihawk (mihawk is superior to shanks because oda gave mihawk the title strongest swordsman in the world, and hes zoros final target)> Shanks (i think shanks bit stronger then akainu, but im not sure about that)> akainu > kizaru = Fujitora = Green Bull = blackbeard (although i think soon blackbeard will be the strongest)> BIG MUM = kaido

The logic that Mihawk > Shanks jjust because he's the world's strongest swordsman is a bad logic. That only works if they only fight with swords, but in overall ability, Shanks could be more powerful. If Usopp is the world's best sniper, does that mean he'd beat Yasopp, who would be more versatile?

 

[gh0un]

Anything below "above admiral level" wouldnt make any sense plotwise.
He is definitely stronger than a single admiral.
Zoro´s final enemy will be mihawk, thats almost 100% given.
Its quite obvious that the strawhats are gonna defeat admiral level opponents soon for the story to progress, which means that it would be very anticlimatic if zoro´s final enemy is weaker than an enemy they faced previously.
He is definitely the strongest shichibukai and prolly stronger than all admirals.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

The logic that Mihawk > Shanks jjust because he's the world's strongest swordsman is a bad logic. That only works if they only fight with swords, but in overall ability, Shanks could be more powerful.

With what else will shanks fight? hes a swordsman.
For sure he aint gonna go boxing, and he didnt eat a DF.

 

[Schabrak]

Kicks, punches, CoO, CoA or CoC, whatever pleases him.