Discussion Natsu Dragneel/E.N.D Thread

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Yes he did. Acnologia was the one that stole Igneel's soul in the first place.

If I read correctly, Igneel was only weakened after Acnologia stole his soul in the past, not dead. Hence, why we saw Igneel return in the Tartaros Arc. That is also a possible explanation of Natsu's existence. I do think that Acnologia killed Igneel though when he was shown to have shattered to pieces.

 

[SirSamuel016]

If I read correctly, Igneel was only weakened after Acnologia stole his soul in the past, not dead. Hence, why we saw Igneel return in the Tartaros Arc. That is also a possible explanation of Natsu's existence. I do think that Acnologia killed Igneel though when he was shown to have shattered to pieces.

The other dragons literally said that they were already dead, and it was because of Acnologia removing their souls. Thats enough to say Acnologia killed them all, but only truly finished off Igneel.

 

[dark123]

You got it all wrong. The demons were created before Natsu but END made a guild with THEM as their master. I never said he was created before any of them.

What we saw in Tartaros arc and in Zeref's flashbacks completely does not form a whole. You are going to tell me that Natsu is child that created guild, he was evil, fought dragon and no one knows his appearance? BULLSHIT!! Dont take Tartaros arc seriously because it really doesnt make sense

 

[Nizen]

The timeline goes something like this.
400 Years Ago Igneel fought with END. This shows he existed back then. Whats not clear is that whether Tartarus existed back then, because the demons of tartarus did not even recognize their master's face. What probably happened was Zeref created them and allowed them to grow, and they had it imprinted inside their heads that END was their master, and that he created tartarus. Their mission was to revive him and "return to Zeref". The facts in their heads were all made up by Zeref. Zeref did not mention about creating tartarus that time.

100 years ago Zeref and Mavis had a conversation where Zeref mentioned that he was SEARCHING for Natsu, thereby implying that Natsu was already taken away by Igneel. This was when Zeref said he created tartarus. Also, Mard Geer is responsible for developing the guild because he has "tartarus" in his name. END as far as the current evidences are considered, has nothing to do with Tartarus at all.

 

[Nomi]

The timeline goes something like this.
400 Years Ago Igneel fought with END. This shows he existed back then. Whats not clear is that whether Tartarus existed back then, because the demons of tartarus did not even recognize their master's face. What probably happened was Zeref created them and allowed them to grow, and they had it imprinted inside their heads that END was their master, and that he created tartarus. Their mission was to revive him and "return to Zeref". The facts in their heads were all made up by Zeref. Zeref did not mention about creating tartarus that time.

100 years ago Zeref and Mavis had a conversation where Zeref mentioned that he was SEARCHING for Natsu, thereby implying that Natsu was already taken away by Igneel. This was when Zeref said he created tartarus. Also, Mard Geer is responsible for developing the guild because he has "tartarus" in his name. END as far as the current evidences are considered, has nothing to do with Tartarus at all.

No, Tartarus means Hell. So Tartarus could have been created by END and Mard Geer's last name coud be just a co-incidence.



As for Dark123's theory, One possible reason that they didnt know Natsu's face could be that Natsu used to be in his etherious form, not his human one.
Or maybe even that Natsu, or someone else (Like Igneel) erased the face of END from the demons' memories.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

The other dragons literally said that they were already dead, and it was because of Acnologia removing their souls. Thats enough to say Acnologia killed them all, but only truly finished off Igneel.

Are we talking about 400+ years ago? Acnologia only weakened Igneel; hence, why we saw Igneel weakened in Tartaros when he left Natsu's body to confront Acnolgia.

 

[DemonKing888]

I think ripping someone's soul out and nuking the hell out of their body counts as killing them. People die when they are killed.

 

[Nizen]

That Shirou reference though, lol.
Still, Natsu bears a stronger grudge against Acnologia than any other DS. The other dragons said their goodbyes peacefully while Natsu watched Igneel get ripped apart right in front of his eyes.

 

[Axiomus]

If I read correctly, Igneel was only weakened after Acnologia stole his soul in the past, not dead. Hence, why we saw Igneel return in the Tartaros Arc. That is also a possible explanation of Natsu's existence. I do think that Acnologia killed Igneel though when he was shown to have shattered to pieces.

Well yeah. Acnologia shortened Igneel's lifespan, and then gave him a premature death to that shortened life span. What I'm trying to say is that no matter how you look at it, Acnologia killed Igneel. Either he killed him when Acnologia stole his soul, or Acnologia killed Igneel when he tore him apart in their fight. Either way, Igneel died because Acnologia acted upon him.

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------

That Shirou reference though, lol.
Still, Natsu bears a stronger grudge against Acnologia than any other DS. The other dragons said their goodbyes peacefully while Natsu watched Igneel get ripped apart right in front of his eyes.

Yeah, one of the things he said when Igneel told him to say his will to live is to stop Acnologia. Also a large part of Natsu's current motivation is thinking about the future. That's been his motif ever since the time-skip. If I remember correctly, Natsu is the only one that knows Acnologia will take over the world in the future. Acnologia is a direct threat to the future that Natsu is trying to live for.

 

[Brandish μ]

What kinda memories would Natsu have sealed in the book anyways? When we saw he was a mere toddler when he was brought back to life.

Curse creating for one, if he did indeed create them as Mard Geer said. Everything tied to END's curse power and the knowledge Natsu would need to have that power.

---------- Post added at 06:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 AM ----------

There'd be other things (if memories are sealed that is) but curse power knowledge is the most obvious as it is the most obvious difference between END and Natsu the slayer.

 

[MangerDan]

Some of these "theories" are really poorly thought out there's a lot of things if you really think about it that contradict them. This reminds me of the time when there were a few naysayers when it came to Natsu being e.n.d

 

[metsujin]

Man have you read Zeref's flashbacks? Tartaros had been created before Natsu was brought back to life. Tartaros was just experiment which resulted in creating method to bring back Natsu to life. As we saw Natsu was brought back to life as child and was imprisoned inside artificial womb. And you are going to tell me that Zeref altered his own beloved brother's personality? NO FUCKING WAY!!! That is why i always tell that Tartaros arc is complete bullshit and completely does not connect with what has been shown in Zeref's flashbacks.

It's never stated that Tartaros existed in Zeref's back story. He only says how he created demons and his ultimate experiment is Natsu, and all the other ones are 'failed experiments'. Natsu demons powers have something to do with that book of E.N.D., Mashima didn't explain everything, obviously you'll find out more later on. And stuff make sense as the story progresses.

 

[Mori takai]

100 years ago Zeref and Mavis had a conversation where Zeref mentioned that he was SEARCHING for Natsu, thereby implying that Natsu was already taken away by Igneel. This was when Zeref said he created tartarus. Also, Mard Geer is responsible for developing the guild because he has "tartarus" in his name. END as far as the current evidences are considered, has nothing to do with Tartarus at all.

I think Mard Geer himself confirmed he was just the temporary
Leader for the Guild and that was it ( not really the master just a stand in if that makes sense ) for all we Know Natsu most likely different look all together like different hair color with different looking flames to the point that the other guilds could tell Big difference between the two

 

[Dranzer]

END was only created to kill Zeref, and there seems to be a fair gap between Zeref and Acnologia. Natsu's Dragon Force has the potential to make him as strong as Igneel at his prime, which is much closer to Acnologia. Plus in a manga where love means everything, a power based on hate is pretty much raising the "doomed to fail from the start" flag.

I think Natsu will ultimately find his way back to the right path but before then he'll learn the feeling of hatred and despair after experiencing death. So in other words he will transform into END but find his way back to his old self.

 

[Dranzer]

So I've seen a lot of discussion about this topic in chapter discussions/spoilers recently so I though it would probably be good to make a thread about this so that we have somewhere to discuss this properly. From what I've seen most people agree that Natsu is arguably the strongest mage in Fiore although some argue that while he may definitely be one ot the strongest, he isn't the strongest. I personally think that although Natsu is one of the strongest mages in the country, we can't really call him the strongest quite yet.

 

[metsujin]

Honesty he is up there. I think in his Etherias form he is the strongest.

 

[Shasha23]

You got it all wrong. The demons were created before Natsu but END made a guild with THEM as their master. I never said he was created before any of them.

the story implied that Mard Geer created the guild and and became its master(temporary) he planned to give the seat to END after they resuracted him, E.N.D was talking to Mard Geer giving him instructions on what to do, but in truth none of them have meet END, he just talked to Mard Geer telling him what to do

 

[Mohsen]

Doesn't this page confirm that years ago END failed to kill Zeref years ago ?
http://readms.com/r/fairy_tail/464/3085/8

Zeref tells Natsu that thing are unfolding like this because he natsu failed to kill zeref.

 

[Nomi]

I just thought of something.
What if Igneel never intended to leave that magic power inside of Natsu??
And the power Natsu is using is actually the Magic Power of Igneel that was sealing E.N.D.?????
Isn't this theory interesting? As we know Igneel never told Natsu about that, neither did he ask Natsu to defeat Zeref. It really makes sense!
And we all know in the end Igneel didn't have much strength left and Natsu and Igneel couldn't talk much, so he couldn't have given this much power to Natsu while dying!

(Well it could be he left the power just to help Natsu but we cant be sure)


{This theory is open to further suggestions, extensions and even criticism , feel free to express your opinion!}

 

[Axiomus]

Doesn't this page confirm that years ago END failed to kill Zeref years ago ?
http://readms.com/r/fairy_tail/464/3085/8

Zeref tells Natsu that thing are unfolding like this because he natsu failed to kill zeref.

If we're being completely honest, END hasn't managed to kill anyone that people claim he has fought. He obviously didn't kill Igneel when they fought, seeing as Acnologia did. If he fought Acnologia, he certainly didn't kill him either. And Zeref is obviously still very much alive. If anything, END ended up in worse shape than anyone else if he really fought.