I think if Third Party wins the game should end, yeah. Just as the game ends when the first (townies) or second (mafia) party wins...
then the mafia and townies lost to the santa. /end. tu dun dun
I made Santa third party for the same reason Postman was third party, because if Santa is townie and wins with townies he could easily use his presents to gather a team around him, same way with the Postman. I forgot who told me to do so to prevent townies to build strong teams too fast, but I think it might have been digitaldude.
Now first let me thank you all for your critics and your help!
Good to see that some roles find fans here.^^
To the three roles that sort of seems to have gotten through, yeah, they need some changes, definetly. Hope you can help me figuring out what would fit them best.
As for barkeeper, I really enjoy Lala's idea with the "redirecting night action (if target has one)". Just imagine the target to be the serial killer or the mafia member who has to do the kill and suddenly he kills somebody else because he was drunk. This would confuse both mafia and townies. Mafia would wonder why two people died but none of them being their target so they start to worry about a killer, an insane doctor and other such possibilities, while townies will do their usual thing whereas the barkeeper himself doesn't know yet that he had direct a kill from the mafia/serial killer.^^
So either we could make this straight forward:
Barkeeper
Day Action - gets a player drunk. The player's night action will hit a random target if he uses one tonight.
or we keep the random thing due him being a Barkeeper with lots of costumers
Barkeeper
Night Action - tells GM which 5 players he invites in his bar; gets one randomly drunk who's night action will hit a random target if he uses one. The barkeeper gets told the drunk's night action if he has one. Doesn't know who the drunk one is.
I think it would be better than to use "night actions" instead of roles as then both a prostitute and mafia escort would appear as "blocking" if he happens to get one of them in his costumer line. This way the barkeeper knows that one of the five did a block tonight, but not who it was, the prostitute or the mafia escort.
So if we make the barkeeper a straight forwad "redirect action" role he should be a day action but if he should also have some sort of investigative role, in this case "
hearing his drunk costumer talk about what he/she gonna do tonight" then he should be a night action as then he can be blocked and prevented to both find something out = randomly investigate an action and redirect an action of the drunk person.
Santa Clause (or Blind Santa^^)
I thought that maybe a limition of "crazy good" presents could make him work more and make him more of a nuiance the townies want killed before he gets all of his presents away. For example:
Blind Santa gets only ONE crazy good present to give away but has 4 f@cking bad presents to give people to win the game.
This way Blind Santa is a risk for the townies, as at beginning and middle the game they are way more than mafia and more likely to get a present then. And since 4/5 of the presents are no good you would not want them.
Of cource, nobody forces you to use a present and if you got a night action anyway you probably won't make use of the present anyway.
But imagine if you were a plain townie who just got a magnifier and could do an investigate action this night. You totally would take the risk that you might have a broken magnifier and act like an insane detective for a night, as long as you can do "something" in this game instead to write 3 pms and vote and wait for the next phase to start or to get recurited by somebody.
Same if somebody gets the pistol. A mafia with the pistol would be like "holy crap guys, we could get two kills today! Santa just gave me a gun!", but the pistol could be a f@cking bad one with the risk of killing yourself so the mafia gotta ask themselves if they take the risk believing they got a crazy good pistol or that they get lucky with the rusty one or if they do not take the risk.
If I had such a pistol as last mafia with Blind Santa giving it to me, I would totally use it to get two kills even if it puts me at risk of dying. Same for a plain townie who has a strong suspicen who could be Mafia and who has no problem going down if he can take down a mafia as well.
The Blind Santa should be a risky support role with his own agenda to not get killed till he has given out all his presents. And him as possible role would make plain townies and plain mafia be more outspoken at begin of the game with "hey, santa! I am plain gimme a present!" in hopes to receive a gift and be able to do something instead to sit and wait around and point fingers while the detectives, doctors, blockers and mafia members have all the fun.
And in that case we might made Blind Santa truly blind as that he himself doesn't know what present is what. After all if you were a third party Blind Santa would you give away a crazy good gift that gives somebody an action that could be used against you? Heck no, you wouldn't!
So Santa himself can't have an idea if now the sexy underwear or the pistol is the real deal or the bad deal.
And ofc we can make him a Townie who only wins if the Townie side wins. We just gotta make sure he is not too awesome of a townie magnet to form a strong townie party after 4-5 nights. And the bad presents could just be for that.
Well, that's what I think about this role after the critics.
As for Drug Dealer and Junkies, yeah this needs to be toned down a bit with the junkie control. It is too much and complicated. I think perhaps make it that Drug Dealer can have 2/3 Junkies max and that he can force them only ONCE to change their vote to his liking. After all we have seen with Demonspeed changing his vote to save Holt that such a move really makes you suspect. Also the withdrawal syndrom is far too complicated, we should keep it out. Sorry for thinking so twisted.^^;
It could look like this then:
Drug Dealer
Night Action - ability to drug people with 50/50 chance to turn them into Junkies. Can once per game tell his Junkies who to votelock for at day per pm to GM. Can have maximal three junkies. The Drug Dealer wins the game if he stays alive with at least two Junkies at the end of the game.
Junkies (secondary role)
Junkies do not know the Drug Dealer or other Junkies. They do not know they are Junkies till told by GM that they are Junkies and their Dealer forces them to votelock for a specific person. Cannot reoppose the Dealer's Order.
So basically toned down the control of the Drug Dealer while giving Junkies more freedom, as them havign no syndroms preventing them to vote or do actions, but them losing their freedom for a single day and be forced to vote for their Dealer's liking.
So basically the Drug Dealer would be like a dark/evil Mentor/recruiting Mason who stays hidden and who has control over his followers for once in the game. So basically a "Third Party Cult".
That is all to those three roles, will write more later.^^
---------- Post added at 06:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------
Now to the not so popular roles.
Yeah, Shrink is too OP, he should stay simpler. So how about this?
Shrink (Townie)
Day action - picks a target, gets told target's sanity: Normal, Sane, Insane, Naive, Paranoid.
We could "maybe" add that once per game he can change a sanity which is not normal into its opposite.
Or we create an "Insane" Shrink who gets told the opposite of what the San Sjrink gets told. And ofc they do not know their own sanity. But as we have seen an Insane Detective/Doctor can still be good for the townies once he figured out his own sanity, same could be for a Shrink.
The idea behind the Shrink was to investigate the sanity. I mean if we do have sanity with sane, insane, naive and paranoid and none of those = normal then why not make use of them and have a role that looks for such people?
After all once a Shrink finds somebody who is not normal he knows he has found a detective and doctor no matter what role that person claims on the thread, he jsut knows his sanity though and cannot be sure if it is the real sanity as he might be Insane himself.
So could look like this:
Sane Shrink (Townie)
Day action - picks a target, gets told target's sanity: Normal, Sane, Insane, Naive, Paranoid. Doesn't know his own sanity.
Insane Shrink (Townie)
Day action - picks a target, gets told target's sanity: Normal, Sane->Insane, Insane->Sane, Naive->Paranoid, Paranoid->naive. Doesn't know his own sanity.
Naive Shrink (Townie)
Day action - picks a target, always gets told his target's sanity is: Normal. Doesn't know his own sanity.
Basically a medical investigator who acts at day unlike the detectives and doctors who act at night. Added naive Shrink because the thought of a shrink believing he might be sane/Insane but curses his misfortune to only get normals at the beginning of the game is quite fun. Plus if somebody claims detective and he says "false! I diagnosed that guy! He is a normal, he cannot be a detective!" he could be either a risk for real detectives, thus them not wanting to come out too soon, or for mafia members who tries to get a paranoid detective role but do not have "Paranoid" as sanity when the shrinks look at them. XD
Hope Shrinks look more fun now as they are toned down in power and have a bit more diversity to them.
Now to Paranoid Doc.
Yeah, he is too strong/dangerous even with Injury rule (and I will rewrite that rule to see if I cannot get 5-6 people to like it to give it a try for more active townie/mafia/third party roles!!!), but if we do find Shrinks more acceptable with the changes I put them under, then a paranoid Doctor would be useful as else the Shrinks would know immidately that the
paranoid person they found is a
detective... or a
Paranoid Gun Owner. Totally forgot about that guy. XD
However, if we got a Mafia Detective (who should appear "Sane" to Shrinks, similar to how Mafia Boss appears "innocent" to detectives) then we should have a Mafia Doctor as well, albeit a weaker version of it.
So how about we merge the two roles into one and create the
Paranoid Mafia Doctor (Mafia)!!!
Paranoid Mafia Doctor (Mafia)
Night Action - Can once per game protect somebody as an Insane Doctor.
The Idea behind the Mafia Doctor is either for him to be like an Insane one all the time but then that could put too much killing power into the mafia hands if the paranoid doctor always lands on the lucky 50s side to get a kill. So I thought to reduce him similar to Strongarm to a Once per game doctor. I am not too sure though if it should be sane or insane, leading towards Insane.
This way the Mafia can decide to either use him as a 50/50 kill chance or him acting as doctor to get people to trust him.
The other Idea is for the Paranoid Mafia Doctor to be an "extra kill" but with the expense that the Mafia Doctor will be revealed the next day by the GM together with the doctors kill. Basically the Mafia would get two kills but at the expense of one of their member's life in the next day lynch phase.
Paranoid Mafia Doctor (Mafia)
Night Action - Can once per game kill somebody. After the kill his role will be revealed by the Host.
That would be the more extreme version of the Paranoid Mafia Doctor.
And this way the Shrinks cannot be too sure if they really found the paranoid detective (or gun owner lolz) or if it is the paranoid mafia doctor. Or in case of the insane one who might believe he has found the naive doctor/detective.^^
Mafia Lawyer, I really like that role as I think mafia has a role to block and investigate and strongkill someone and have somebody disappear after a kill but not a role that could "protect" against investigations (which are like next day kills for the mafia as seen with Holt) like the Townies have with doctors to protect against kills.
So I will try to weaken down the Mafia Lawyer, either as an Investigation trickster="protector" or as a vote changing role:
Mafia Lawyer (Mafia)
Night Action - Can change somebody's guilty/innocent status into its opposite for this night phase.
Mafia Lawyer (Mafia)
Day Action - Can take away a vote from somebody at the lynch voting.
Something like that, in both cases the Mafia Lawyer will try to keep Mafia's either safe from Investigators or from getting lynched at votings. However, the latter only works in close calls, like that 4-4-4 one at day 1, against odds where one happens to get 8 votes the Mafia Lawyer is helpless. So I dunno about the 2nd type Mafia and am thinking to actually change that into the TOWNIE LAWYER!!!
Mafia Lawyer (Mafia)
Night Action - Can change somebody's guilty/innocent status into its opposite for this night phase.
Lawyer (Townie)
Day Action - Can take away a vote from somebody at the lynch voting.
Like this. This way in close calls the Lawyer can either make sure only one dies (if there are two tieing) or can get two people lynched by taking away one vote from the one who is just one vote above the 2nd placed vicitm. So in cases of ties and people knowing that there is a Lawyer, which they will realizes as votes go missing, they will both plead and beg for the Lawyer to save themselves. So I can see the Townie Laywer to be a fun one, especially if we do some overworks on it and make it that he can not only take away but add that vote somewhere else, albeit then he is basically like a politican role that way.
And the Mafia Lawyer can only "protect" one status of his gang and since they never know who gets investigated that willl be hard.
However if they try to find detectives and know their sanity and tries to get them to look at a certain member of theirs then the Mafia Lawyer can bring great confusion into the mix which might give the Mafia a day or a night's breather.
Ofc the Mafia Lawyer becomes the strongest if there are only two of them, him and another member. But the moment he gets found out the past investigations will be questioned and without the Lawyer the last Mafia member will have a hard standing.
So yeah, if I had a saying I would prefer those two Lawyer types, one for Mafia as a night action changing statuses either to protect own members or to frame other Townies to be guilty and the other one to act as a "Lawyer" for one of the accused who are about to by lynched to change the votes a bit in the favor of his client.
I forgot who but somebody told me that some roles should have a counterpart, like how there is the prostitute and the mafia escort how the strongarm to counter the bulletproof townie, etc.
So I thought after reading about Assassin (superstrong role) and Daytime Vigilante (As we have seen can be damn dangerous to mafia if they slip up) - why do we have no role that "might" be able to prevent a day action?
So here are my thoughts, against the Assassin a Police Officer/Inspector is needed to arrest the Assassin and look if he got the real deal and against Daytime Vigiliante (or any other townies who might act at day) we need a Mafia Kidnapper.
This is how they could look like to counte rAssassin and Daytime Vigiilante:
Police Inspector
Day Action - Can arrest a person for the day phase. Arrested person is not allowed to do a day action.
Mafia Kidnapper
Day Action - Can kidnap a person for the day phase. Kidnapped person is not allowed to do a day action.
Other idea would be to make both roles a bit stronger but then only "Once per game" type of roles, like this:
Police Inspector
Day Action - Can arrest somebody for this day and the next night phase. Person is not allowed to do any action, vote and to write in the day phase. If the arrested person is a Mafia member, he will be hanged after the night phase expect the Inspector gets killed.
Mafia Kidnapper
Day Action - Can kidnap somebody for this day and the next night phase. Person is not allowed to do any action, vote and to write in the day phase. If the arrested person if a Townie that can kill, he will be found dead after the night phase expect the Kidnapper gets killed.
And with that I think I will take a pause. Doubt all those roles will make it, just throwing ideas out to see what you guys can see as a fun or good addition to the game. Hope some are to your likings and if not, please let me know why.^^