Bastard roles can be fun, they are interactive and open different scenarios in a game and they have a role in game. A townie that gets revealed... I dont see the point of it.
Uhm, I might have a suggestion to the Barkeeper.
The whole "and either reveals his role to the Bar Keeper, fails to perform his night action, or uses it on a random player." seems a bit much. How about we make it a bit easier to understand/play?
For example:
"either uses his action on a random player or fails to perform his night action" <- this way you can make this an easy 50/50 chance for the GM too!
As for the finds out randoly role ability, why not make that a separate class to play alltogether given how interesting that feature is?
Like somebody mentioned Otae from Gintama some time ago. Wouldn't a Hostess make the most sense to talk to somebody/lot of people, to fake interest, find some interesting stuff out but afterwards cannot remember from who she got the info to the many customers she had.
So the barkeeper would be there to get people randomly drunk to make their actions unpredictable and the hostess would be there to find roles and/or actions taken that night out among a bunch of customers. That way we get two interesting townie roles to play with.
How does that sound? This way we get two interesting to play roles and both are easier to manage for the GM due the 50/50 chance.
ya, thanks for the input. appreciated. however, your concerns towards the difficlties of the execution for the gm/host are not necessary. first of all 1/3 is not any more difficult to perform than 1/2. and if a host is confused by that, then simple as it is he is not suited to be one.
to the split, generally an ok idea. but i dont like it. you see, we had huge problems with a role called "hypnotist" (redirecting night actions - became too influencial and basically ran the game alone). the 50/50 would just basically make it a prostitute/hypnotist. it would bring in a certainty that one of the bunch of people would be blocked or redirected. i dont know what i think about it.
i'd like to see the role in action first, before twerking it.
James, why dont you work on different role idea instead
ya, thanks for the input. appreciated. however, your concerns towards the difficlties of the execution for the gm/host are not necessary. first of all 1/3 is not any more difficult to perform than 1/2. and if a host is confused by that, then simple as it is he is not suited to be one.
to the split, generally an ok idea. but i dont like it. you see, we had huge problems with a role called "hypnotist" (redirecting night actions - became too influencial and basically ran the game alone). the 50/50 would just basically make it a prostitute/hypnotist. it would bring in a certainty that one of the bunch of people would be blocked or redirected. i dont know what i think about it.
i'd like to see the role in action first, before twerking it.
James, why dont you work on different role idea instead
Hmhm, okay I see. No wonder the hypnotist got taken out although I think the random 3-5 people without knwoing the identity will prevent a similar powerplay like the hypnotist who could chose his victim and thus easily find out what happened with the redirected action if said person had one that gives results.
As a different role idea, I have one for the Mafia. I think Janitor is a real power role. Basically every game has a Janitor and every Mafia group will try to use the Janitor as often as possible because of the chance to kill some detectives or docs early for people to claim said role like I did last game (Mafia FTW!!!). So why not make it so that the mafia has to chose between two types of "game playing" aka have another character where the Mafia has to question themselves whenever to use the Janitor or the new role's ability due what happens when they kill somebody.
The idea with this role is to make the Mafia guess when it is best to which which role. The Janitor to confuse townie what role was killed or the smuggler to confuse townies the next day voting if the person the dead guy's vote was given to is a townie or a mafia. See the smuggler can vote twice, similar to the Noble however unlike the Noble, the smuggler has to kill for his vote and the smuggled vote is not anoynmous, meaning it looks like the killed person keeps voting for one more day outta his/her grave whereas it is the smuggler who does so.
The whole spy effect was added as an anti-spy possibility for Mafia in case of them finding out that there's a spy and they are afraid the spy might target the Janitor in the night when he should be out killing somebody.
I got that idea after last game with the whole ties. A townie with the role to decide between the ties instead of the GM can spice the game up as then people, both townies and mafia, would try to get the Judge's attention to spare them in case of an unavoidable tie. At the same time the Juge would usually try to remain under the radar as the Mafia would surely take him out to prevent him from preventing the townies to lynch a townie. Ofc this role also implies that the judge might stop a lynching that could have killed a mafia, but that's in my eyes the fun aspect of this role. So a pretty situational role but one that got a once day action with which it can prevent a lynch death which should make this role interesting enough for whoever gets it.
I also want to add a new idea I got regarding the refused sniper due being too situational. I thought about how strong the assassin is who can go and kill every day somebody like nobody's business (and who so far hasn't been used in the games I was in) so I wondered why not make a mafia character who can kill at daylight but has to fulfill a specific order first before the kill counts. And the sniper would fit greatly for that kinda role.
The Third role is the idea to instead of maing this a mafia role to make it a third role role in which the sniper gets 3 targets (can be townies, mafia or a mix of both) from the GM and he has to find and kill them with his day action, lynching and murders of other people do not count.If he does manage to kill all of his three given targets, sniper wins the game.
This way the sniper role would be like a detective with a killing action but without a investigation action. He has to live with the infos given in the thread and decide which hints and theories to trust and which not while at the same time fear that one of his targets could get lynched or killed at night. And ofc he could "killsteal" a lynch if he targets a lynch vicitm to prevent his target getting lynched instead of killed by himself. xD
I think third role with targets given (aka kill the Mafia Janitor, the innocent child and the insane detective) would make for a very interesting game additon especially as people would then stop to shout out their roles at day 2 which ALWAYS puts the mafia into a dilemma as they cannot easily claim and fake roles to appear like a townie. With a possible sniper running around in town, townies might be less willing to tell directly their roles as they could be the target of the sniper though they have to continue giving hints to find other townies and be able to pick out the possible mafia members.
What you think about that? Does sound exciting, doesn't it?
omg, mentioned it several time in the conversation with u. host
---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------
anyways, voting
with some more clear regulations i believe thats an amazing role. would love to play it. in favour
not really fond of the whole injury addition, but some more townie killing roles could work. obvs weaker than normal killing roles, maybe restricting to one kill, like vigilant, but at night. not sure if the 'hooligan' title would still work though. could work without injury
nah, that's imho rubbish. no
i thought those are kinda similar. day killer third party is actually possible. day time serial killer, somethin like that. uhu
Regarding the Injury rule, we could maybe have once a small/medium game with it to see if it breaks the flow or if it adds to it. I do think it is a good rule as it provides more proactive roles for both sides and makes the bodyguard role a less "One time" thing and more of a "perhaps I see the end of this game" thing with possibilities for Mafia to use injuries as arguments to fake townie roles wherea Townies try to use them as hints for finding Mafias/Townie who can injury.
Glad you find the Judge and the Mafia treasurer interesting. It is pretty hard to think up roles for mafia while trying to keep their powers down but not make them all together useless. As for the Mafia treasurer I think he should be able to use it only once/twice/thrice depending on the size of the game or maybe really only once per game which could make him a deal breaker when it comes to the townie having only one more townie than the mafia. The Judge ofc could work greatly against that deal breaker with his day action as he can prevent once per game a lynch kill which the mafia will aim for if they could get one more vote with the treasurer while the townie side has one less.
About the Mafia smuggler, how about making it a "either have a hidden kill or steal a vote instead of a kill". Basically have the Mafia to decide whenever to kill with the smuggler while hiding who did the deed or decide to not kill but steal a townie's vote, who next day is still alive but got told he got his vote rights stolen today and sees that somebody votes that day under his name while he can't control it.
That way townies would not "lose" one of their own for good, but the mafia would gain a vote the next day they can use to even out the odds for "sparing" somebody that night.
Also this would give great way to try to "fake" that your vote was stolen aka acting as if you do not control your vote anymore while it changes target though in truth you are still in charge of your vote.
And it would be interesting if a whole night went without somebody dying but suddenly the next day one declares that his vote got stolen and he can't vote today. it would give a new angle on the game that could be very interesting for both sides of the game. The townie because they are still the same size if the mafia smuggler goes for a smuggling instead of a kill and for the mafia because they spare a townie's life with the intention to have a townie lynched instead of murdered that night.
If I had to decide between Axeman and Sniper ad third role I would vote for Sniper. Getting told three roles at the beginning of the game is a nice advantage yet at the same time very risky as you want to avoid people finding out that you are looking for those roles as the game would be over if the sniper succesfully kills his three targets, similar to the Santa claus role. Also it comes with a downside as it means taking a risk and risking that you cannot operate the next day due a failed assination the previous day, yet you cannot wait too long else your targets might get lynched or killed at night.
Perhaps the Sniper could be in need of a weak and specific night action like "observe" to help him determinate if somebody is a target or not, though it does not tell him which of his three targets it is. Like this.
Ofc we can keep the night action out but this way a sniper killing somebody succesfully at daylight or failing to do so will rile up both townies and mafia as they have to fear to be the target of the sniper while also have the fear that the sniper might succed in his task to kill all three targets and ends the game as solo winner which would make both sites trying to find the sniper while the sniper tries to find his targets at the same time. :-)
---------- Post added April 11, 2015 at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was April 04, 2015 at 02:37 PM ----------
I thought together with the Judge, Prosecutor, lawyer and Cop/Corrupt cop would make a fun additon to the mafia game with their once per game action which can be pretty powerful but also pretty devasting if used against fellow townies. Just imagine a cop arresting a doctor who wanted to protect the lawyer who could free him sooner or a prosecutor accusating a townie instead of a mafia due having a false lead but then the judge prevents the lynching for that day due his day action to close the court for that day!
I first wanted to give the Mafia the kidnapper, but he was too powerful as it would make no sense if he could not hinder his kidnapped townie to vote besides not doing actions. So I got the idea of the corrupted cop who works exactly like the good cop but also only once per game plus his action can get halfed by a lawyer doing his job to get the arrested person out sooner. A corrupt Cop would make a good addtion to the Mafia due having only a once per game action yet it is helpful enough for the mafia to have for at least two nights to deal with one annoying townie's action less although said townie can still vote.
Plus with a corrupt cop in town people won't easily believe the cop to be a good cop if somebody comes out and said "I arrested you ebcause I thought you were mafia, my bad" as he could be corrupt and working for the mafia to begin with!
This prevents the cop to be a too strong townie focus to gather around.
I like how the Prosecutor could be the nightmare of the Mafia yet has also the risk to be a suicide killer while also revealing another townie's role which might end up helping the mafia who to kill though it could also help the townies to see that the accusated player for 100% is not a mafia.
Same with the Laywer although I was not too sure about his abilities. I wanted him first to be able to release arrested players sooner, but that was too weak. Then I wanted him also to be able to stop accusated players to be lynched by the prosecutor but those two options made him too relaying on other roles to be a fun role ro play plus it would make the prosecutor role less fun. So I gave him a much weaker Judge once per game action in which he can protect a single player from being lynched that day. However similar to the prosecutor it comes at the risk of openly declaring your action thus revealing your role.
Maybe those roles still need some tweaking but I think some of them hold good value for future mafia games.^^
---------- Post added April 18, 2015 at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was April 11, 2015 at 11:25 PM ----------
How about a "Hacker" on the Mafia site that either has the same once per game power like the Townie Judge or has a day action to interfer with votings?
Something like that. Hacker sounds like a good word for a Mafia role.^^
Nah I think freeman should stay as it is ... It may be difficult to play as Freeman since you cant reveal it but thats the thing no ? Even Politician or sth cant reveal their role so it shouldnt be changed IMO
Alright, nobody expect maybe two or three like to try out the Injury rule and related classes and that's fine with me.
However, we could still make use of the Nurse and the Brawler. For example in regards to the sickly Townie who infects people with the Not Voter disease. In other words we could make the Brawler a Mafia character who can also hurt people at night to not vote the following day, however unlike the sickly townie he can do so only a couple times, maybe 3 times per game?
The Nurse has the day action Treatment where she treats the Not Voter disease bedridden person to make her/him healthy enough to go vote again.
Or the Nurse can be made into an aid role who acts like a naive doc when hitting non doctor role player but when she aids an insane or naive doc their actions gets treated as if they were sane. Thus a Nurse would want to find the doctors, preferably the insane and naive ones and aid them to prevent them killing/actually doing the healing. This way Townies have the chance of actually two "sane" docs healing with three people being involved. This way even the death of a sane doc early on isn't all that hard as long as the Nurse finds the other two docs.
Too lazy to write role correctly quotes. I'll do so once I hear what people think about said roles if they could make it in or not.
Oh, and I would really like a third role Cult role, kinda like a demon worshipper cult which has to get 6 cultists before the end of the game and stay hidden or something like that.^^
Okay, new try, new luck. Maybe this time, I will manage to get more than just one role accepted.^^
First two simple ones which are about blocking and sort of protecting:
I got this idea due the duels which took out somebody we suspected and left us with the hard choice to find somebody else to lynch.
Basically, the Good Cop would try to arrest a mafia to prevent his night action, like a mafia escort while a Corrupt Cop would try to get a doctor or detective in jail to prevent its night action. However, both roles could also be used to "safe" another player who they see is about to get lynched and put them in jail "for their own safety", at least for this day. The thought behind this is that if a Good Cop thinks or knows that the townies are about to lynch a doctor or detective or a hider just because of false information or bandwagon, he can save said person for this day and give the townies another night to think about it. Same for Corrupt Cop who for example sees that his Mafia boss is about to get lynched and puts him in jail so that the townies have to wait another day or even change their opinion due the night happenings.
I think, I made both roles simple enough to understand yet also interesting enough to play them as the role holder could see themselves as a mafia/townie chaser or as a protector of his people.
Another three roles I think are easy to understand, those are about voting:
The thoughts behind those roles were the inactive players we usually always have per game. Inactive players who haven't voted or posted three times gets a penalty vote, right? Then what about roles who could "move" such penalty votes around via their day action? Ofc only one per day that is. However, i think those roles would be very interesting to play as they are similar to noble or politican but unlike them dependen on penalty votes. No penalty votes no moving votes around.
Ofc the Mafia Lawyer would try to move a penatly vote to a townie but everyone would notice that suddenly a penalty vote from person x moved to person y and be like "woha, what happened? Who changed that and why? Was it Mafia Lawyer or our Prosecutor?" and this way could be used to make fun conversations if a penatly vote got moved from a townie to a possible mafia or from a certain mafia to a possible townie or another possible mafia to make him/her look innocent. xD
The Judge would have a calmer role as he directly like the noble gives out an extra vote, however unlike the noble his is a penalty vote of his own, meaning it can hit ANYBODY, even those who didn't broke any rules, but also that the prosecutor and mafia lawyer could move his penalty vote around freely and he cannot prevent that. Thus I also gave him the "hammer of justice" with which he can once per game stop the lynching and nobody dies that day. Ofc that can backfire if he saves a mafia with it, however I think that does make the fun of this role.
I wanted to have a "who moves first" situation of when the judge hands out a penalty vote late game and both prosecutor and mafia lawyer are trying to guess who to move this one penalty vote to to guess from the movement if a mafia was saved or a townie was supposed to get lynched with. Also if there are more penalty votes besides the judge ones then ofc the two pen-vote movers can take one of them to move around. And obviously if the judge dies and nobody breaks the rules then there are no penalty votes to move around for those two roles.
HOWEVER!
Both the Mafia AND the townies have the tactical possibility to have one of their own NOT VOTING for one day to give their lawyer or prosecutor an extra vote next day! And ofc whoever does something like that, aka being always active, always voting and suddenly not voting, should either have a confirmed townie role or big balls because this would look a lot like Mafia trying to gain an extra vote for the next day. If their lawyer don't get killed/lynched or the prosecutor suddenly moves it after the lawyer moving it.^^
I will write about the other 4-5 roles once people have discussed those roles. I really hope some of them find your agreement and/or interest to play. I tried to keep them as simple yet also fun making for their holders as possible. Hope some of those roles make you say "I WANN PLAY THAT!".
I like the Cop roles, the others are too but they become useless if there's no penalty votes. Though it's true that there has always been at least one so far recently.
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