So how's things looking here
Also are the role in the poll up to tested because till now no one has been tested only the Shapeshifter and Shuffler by spriggar and that was a long time ago.
So how's things looking here
Also are the role in the poll up to tested because till now no one has been tested only the Shapeshifter and Shuffler by spriggar and that was a long time ago.
Shapeshifter might need some changings, though I think to maybe change the Martyr into a "group protection" role where he can chose 3 or 4 people at the start of the day who he will protect and if one of them gets killed or lynched he dies instead.
Updated the opening post with changes to how new roles are approved and handled overall, and stickied. From now on talks will mainly be held publicly here and handled as written on that post.
All roles that were suggested in this thread up until(not including) this post have been reviewed. Here's the decisions on them all:
A host can now take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing it may still need some changes. Most notably Shapeshifter and Spirit Medium split opinions a lot, many liking them but also some not approving of them.
I'll later write some more details on those new roles + certain interactions so it's easier for hosts to pick up and use correctly. I think most interactions can be seen from just reading the description, but might as well write it for simplicity of use.
Only the roles listed under Approved can be tested.
Neutral Roles - Can be discussed here among non-Council hosts/players, what they like/dislike about them and whether who wants them in the game. Shuffler has an updated different description compared to how he was in the RWBY game.
Not Approved Roles - Not Approved. If anyone wants to know why certain roles are listed here, I can copy the text from discussions about that role. But all of these are rather unanimously deemed bad. The first row of unapproved roles have interesting concepts but would need a lot of talking and changes, but in current state unusable. Second row were neither.
The idea is of another form of blocking by Mafia as well as using this as some sort of "defense" aka blackmailing one of their own mafia to let them appear innocent in the eyes of townies. This way players who are blackmailed are "taken out of the game" for one day phase, however their night actions are untouched! Meaning a player claiming det on which the Blackmailer has like 2 or 3 dirty secrets on so instead of killing him or blocking him they make him shut up for 2 day phases, so the det might find some mafias but is unable to talk about it. Ofc once those secrets are used up the mafia either gotta block or kill him because then the player could talk normally.
Also dirty secrets from dead players are deleted aka useless, only dirt on living players can be used on the same players.
This way with Host announcing the blackmail it is like being infected by the not-voter disease. Maybe we can even add a secondary role for that like we have it for the vote infected stuff.
This role works basically the same as the sickly Townie role, but with the limitation to find dirt of other players and that said dirt cannot be used up all at once but one by one, so the Blackmailer has to think strategically - does he dig up some dirt one night to immediately use it next night or keep it and collect several dirty secrets about the same person or does he collect a dirty secret of several different people to make each shut up for a day phase where them talking would really count, like them being framed as mafia but being unable to defend themselves?
I think this role is very fair and fun as it is using a system we already got but in a new way.
This one here is a little different version as here the blackmailed target can still vote making the Blackmailer role weaker however unlike before the host will not announce that the player or somebody got blackmailed. (Hm, maybe we could change the announcement from the previous version to just that somebody was blackmailed? That way if 3 players do not write at all the players would find out who was blackmailed due the one of the 3 not receiving any penalities next day phase? or does that sound dumb?) So in other words the blackmailed is helpless till somebody asks him directly aka per @ like this " @GrySun hey, why are you not talking this day phase?" and only then GrySun would be allowed to write "I am blackmailed". OFC this means a mafia could act as if he or she is blackmailed while in truth the blackmailer was digging up some dirt on another possible townie the previous night!!!
Alright, one of those two versions surely gonna make it, probably the weaker version I guess.
A flexible townie role that can either protect once, find out a role once or kill once. Simple and cool. And it is an active killing townie role which is rare and cool and justifies a Mafia Doctor even more.
Basically as above but unlike once he can reuse the ability 3 night phases later. So if the Potion-maker used the role revealing one on night 1 he can use it on night 4 again and find out another role. This make this role pretty strong, maybe too strong. This could be weakened by making the Potion-maker invite 3 people similar to BK so he doesn't know which one of the 3 he protected, poisoned or got his role told from. We could even change the role that it uses all 3 potion at once when inviting 3 people so in theory it could happen that all 3 potions are used on the same person. That would make it a BK that basically has 100% on all 3 actions to happen just not knowing on who.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on those ideas? Not approved for the trash bin, not approved cause in need of tweaking, neutral or positive?
The blackmailing role seems incredibly anti-fun for the victim and the potion making gives too many options for the player. If they can kill, protect and reveal on their own, they're more valuable than actual docs and dets
The blackmailing role seems incredibly anti-fun for the victim and the potion making gives too many options for the player. If they can kill, protect and reveal on their own, they're more valuable than actual docs and dets
That why it is only for one day phase and why the Blackmailer needs basically 2 night phases in which he can be blocked for example to get that done. And if we go with the 2nd version the blackmailed player can still respond to direct request in the thread by saying "I am blackmailed". The idea is that the players start arguing whenever that is a trick aka a mafia trying to appear as townie by being blackmailed or for real and the blackmailer either tries to stop an important role from telling something or if they wanna use the opportunity to frame the not talker as mafia or 3rd party. After all not being active is an argument which is often used for lynching somebody.
As for the Potion maker, just change the role that similar to BK it has to use all 3 potions on one night by inviting 3 people and not knowing who got what potion and then having to wait 3 or 2 night phases before using it again. This way the Potion Maker cannot have the Role reveal without the possible chance of accidentally killing an important role or even poisoning the same role he just got revealed (ofc he also has the 33% chance on each potion so maybe he got the role reveal, poison and healing potion on one and the same person without knowing it) and with such a limited use it has a clear disadvantage compared to the consistent actions of the dets and docs.
The problem with the blackmailer is that we've been trying to get people to be more active and engaged in the game and this role goes against it. Also, it doesn't even look like something that could aid the mafia team a lot. Feels like a weak role that defeats the efforts to get people more involved in the game.
The potion one is kinda broken ._. being able to chose between saving and killing alrdy gives the role an advantage against the insane doctor one. And the revealing part is just super OP...
As for the Potion maker, just change the role that similar to BK it has to use all 3 potions on one night by inviting 3 people and not knowing who got what potion and then having to wait 3 or 2 night phases before using it again.
Basically, Mafia Loyalist is a worse version of a Gambler and goes against the meat of the game: discussion.
Then Potion-Maker sounds like "Witch" role from the wolves game, but even more op with the revealing thing. Its simply too powerful: kills, saves and confirms at the same time. Theres already a bunch of roles that cover those aspects for town.
Think that‘s mainly why people are neutral on it. Roles for Mafias don‘t all need to be some strong thing, some like Burden/Vanilla/Unskilled exist to make a mafia team weaker or fill space in an already strong team. Reason why nobody outright disapproved Loyalist is simply because it doesn‘t really do anything wrong. Not very exciting or significant as a role, but gives some more tools to balance a mafia team in bigger games.
Though yes it is kinda boring. Maybe would be better as a secondary, which could be given to group-roles like Mentor and Mason Recruiter/Starting Masons as well as mafias? That could work, though frankly still not too significant.
Think that‘s mainly why people are neutral on it. Roles for Mafias don‘t all need to be some strong thing, some like Burden/Vanilla/Unskilled exist to make a mafia team weaker or fill space in an already strong team. Reason why nobody outright disapproved Loyalist is simply because it doesn‘t really do anything wrong. Not very exciting or significant as a role, but gives some more tools to balance a mafia team in bigger games.
Though yes it is kinda boring. Maybe would be better as a secondary, which could be given to group-roles like Mentor and Mason Recruiter/Starting Masons as well as mafias? That could work, though frankly still not too significant.
I wish we had more mafia roles that were in the middle like Gambler and Pirate. Not super awesome but not passive or the role nerfs your team. Well... maybe just a little better than those two since when the victim of the gambler can ignore consequences and the mafia pirate can’t kill .
Have you mixed up that role with another? All it does is prevent a mafia from voting his teammates, don‘t see how that in any way goes against discussion or is in any way related to Mafia Gambler?
I wish we had more mafia roles that were in the middle like Gambler and Pirate. Not super awesome but not passive or the role nerfs your team. Well... maybe just a little better than those two since when the victim of the gambler can ignore consequences and the mafia pirate can’t kill .
Yeah why I put in Gambler back then. Was an interesting tool for mafia but not too strong. More of those could be nice, and let hosts have more approaches to making a mafia team with interesting actions and strats to pull(or make em all vanilla )
Maybe even one more powerhouse that can be equal to Janitor and Assassin(okay maybe not equal to Assassin that‘s very unlikely).
Shocking...... 
your team. Well... maybe just a little better than those two since when the victim of the gambler can ignore consequences 
and the mafia pirate can’t kill 