Agreed, I just never thought I would get more than 3 responses. Nice to have a concentrated discussion outside of the general chapter thread. I am rereading part 1 again to see if there are any hints SIU left that I wouldn't have caught the last few times.
But where a defense would be impossible to break for ordinary shinsoo he could essentially drill through it with a concentrated enough attack because his attacks don't just hit on a physical level but on the level of the shinsoo itself. Which is why an immortal person could be harmed by it.
Am I making sense here or just talking nonsense? It's hard to tell sometimes.
I am still confused. When you add countering immortality with shinsoo it gets even weirder because immortality so far seems to be either the result of a contract or a spell. And contracts are oddly similar to spells.... So countering either with shinsoo seems weird unless the spell in question for some reason involved shinsoo.
Agreed, I just never thought I would get more than 3 responses. Nice to have a concentrated discussion outside of the general chapter thread. I am rereading part 1 again to see if there are any hints SIU left that I wouldn't have caught the last few times.
My first clue to this is Bam’s natural resistance to shinsoo. The shinsoo inside of him would likely resist outside influence the most. He has no control over it at that point so it could be an unrelated skill he has.
The second would be when Hwaryun was attacked as if the shinsoo acted on its own. It’s possible Bam’s will of protecting Rachel caused the shinsoo around him to react and attack Hwayrun without Bam thinking.
The third part is where Bam takes a technique and makes it his own. When that technique enters his body if his will can dominate even just a part of it Bam can make it his own.
I am still confused. When you add countering immortality with shinsoo it gets even weirder because immortality so far seems to be either the result of a contract or a spell. And contracts are oddly similar to spells.... So countering either with shinsoo seems weird unless the spell in question for some reason involved shinsoo.
Let me preface this by saying that everything I've said is all pretty loose and theoretical stuff that I have little to no evidence to back up besides that I think it fits and that I've seen similar powers in Wuxia WNs before.
Having said that suppose spells work by essentially forcing a pattern unto shinsoo. And contracts are an extension of a tower administrators' shinsoo control applied to the person who agreed to the contract in much the same way.
If Baam's power is to suffuse his shinsoo with his own will. Then these outside influences could be resisted because he has greater control of his shinsoo and it becomes truly his. So neither force can control his shinsoo in the way it can for everybody else. Allowing him to damage the normally undamagable structure of things and resist forces others can't. Spells and contracts in particular would be vulnerable if they work the way I think they do.
When Maschenny sent out lightning and Jinsung sent out Red Drop the lightning and red mist are made of shinsoo but they act on each other as if they were lightning and whatever red mist is....
If Bam were to send out his black shinsoo against Maschenny’s lightning, Bam’s attack doesn’t interact with her attack as if it were lightning, rather his attack goes after the fundamental shinsoo at the heart of the attack.
In a sense it’s similar to how Hungry Ghost realm absorbed any chakra based attack no matter the elemental makeup of the attack, whereas most chakra based attacks interact on the surface level (fire vs water).
I get what you’re saying and yet it is very hard to explain XD.
Let me preface this by saying that everything I've said is all pretty loose and theoretical stuff that I have little to no evidence to back up besides that I think it fits and that I've seen similar powers in Wuxia WNs before.
Having said that suppose spells work by essentially forcing a pattern unto shinsoo. And contracts are an extension of a tower administrators' shinsoo control applied to the person who agreed to the contract in much the same way.
If Baam's power is to suffuse his shinsoo with his own will. Then these outside influences could be resisted because he has greater control of his shinsoo and it becomes truly his. So neither force can control his shinsoo in the way it can for everybody else. Allowing him to damage the normally undamagable structure of things and resist forces others can't. Spells and contracts in particular would be vulnerable if they work the way I think they do.
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That's exactly right. Thank god, somebody can explain this well because I sure can't.
So then based on your conjecture it’s not that Bam is countering the spell directly. Instead he has a back-door attack of sorts. The spells need some medium with which they produce their effects and in the Tower that’s shinsoo. Outside the Tower it may be something else. Or it could be they could use that “something else” in the Tower but shinsoo is more convenient.
So then Bam just goes in and disrupts/consumes/dominates the shinsoo used as structure for the spell in the first place. If the spell is sufficiently strong then Bam wouldn’t be able to affect the shinsoo at the heart of the spell so most likely at this point Bam would be unable to take the souls from the FoD but once he’s a Ranker he might be strong enough.
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This is really weird territory though because we have no idea what spells are exactly. We are told they’re different than attacks made of shinsoo.
I can say that if a spell can act on a person then I don’t see why it can’t act on shinsoo also. For example: let’s say you have a barrel made of metal hoops and wood panels. The metal is the spell, holding the pieces of wood (the shinsoo) together, trapping someone inside.
Once the metal hoop is forged it’s really hard to unmake it. You could use another spell (hacksaw) to cut it so the wood pieces fall apart but this may be difficult. Alternatively, which is what Bam does, you could burn or cut the wood. The difference is that most people don’t have the ability to affect the wood, they can only interact with the barrel as a whole entity.
By the time Bam realises his full power (which i dont think will be that long) most of these folks who are attacking him will beg for his mercy.
I like the scenario where Kallavan kills off Jinsung (jinsung protects everyone by single-handedly taking over kallvans forces and kallavan himself and giving Bam and co enough time to escape). Bam gets angry and when he is ready and as deadly as Mazino himself he visits Kallvan to thrash the daylight out of him and his whole team(like enryu did in the FOD) while Kallvan realizes he picked the wrong guy to mess with and there is nothing he can do now.
The blow of a whole squadron of zahard army brought to knees by a kid younger than 50 yrs old in the tower will shake the entire tower for sure catapulting Bam to top 20 if not top 10.
By the time Bam realises his full power (which i dont think will be that long) most of these folks who are attacking him will beg for his mercy.
I like the scenario where Kallavan kills off Jinsung (jinsung protects everyone by single-handedly taking over kallvans forces and kallavan himself and giving Bam and co enough time to escape). Bam gets angry and when he is ready and as deadly as Mazino himself he visits Kallvan to thrash the daylight out of him and his whole team(like enryu did in the FOD) while Kallvan realizes he picked the wrong guy to mess with and there is nothing he can do now.
The blow of a whole squadron of zahard army brought to knees by a kid younger than 50 yrs old in the tower will shake the entire tower for sure catapulting Bam to top 20 if not top 10.
For once I would like to see Bam really personal in a fight, only time we got that was when he met rachel in the trains station. He was extremely unprepared back then and lost his cool. The same thing wont happen when he is in his prime i believe.
Bam getting really personal and at his full potential will be enough to bring dread to even zahard i think.
So you want TOG to be like OPM when you can enjoy baam beating the shit of the villains guy, his friends defeating FH .
I also don't understand why people overestimate jinsung so much! Is it because of his prestation agaisnt mashenny ?
I even saw people posting That he is probably top 50 or ranked between top 30, and now people believe that only yurin or the twins can take care of him.
For me he is weaker than Evankhell and kallavan for sure, if he was so strong SIU would have let Evankhell out of this arc and let jinsung deal with kallavan.
Not really OPM but definitely Bam to be strong enough to be a threat to Zahard and we can go from there. I would say V was a threat to zahard as well but he lost. In a war a lot of things matter especially when Zahard still holds the immortality spell.
And Post zahard there might be more issues depending on what SIU think of. May be Zahard sealed off the tower at 135 because something terrible lies beyond and Bams opening will unleash that and Bam has to fight it which might challenge him in his full power. Who knows, but yeah i want him to Thrash zahards squadron. Both Phantaminum and Enryu did it, Urek simply doesnt bother because he isnt even bothered with Tower politics I d love Bam to follow the trail of Enryu and phanta.
What do you want to see from Bam and Tog? Bam being weaker than Yuri like Evan and leading a rag tag bunch against zahard even though he is hyped to have potential to even be a threat to zahard from the start?
So you want TOG to be like OPM when you can enjoy baam beating the shit of the villains guy, his friends defeating FH .
I also don't understand why people overestimate jinsung so much! Is it because of his prestation agaisnt mashenny ?
I even saw people posting That he is probably top 50 or ranked between top 30, and now people believe that only yurin or the twins can take care of him.
For me he is weaker than Evankhell and kallavan for sure, if he was so strong SIU would have let Evankhell out of this arc and let jinsung deal with kallavan.
Off topic - Jinsung, Evankhell, and YHS are all going for plot reasons. Those 3 are responsible for kicking off Bam’s journey in FUG (to varying degrees). Not to mention that Evankhell has the power of the ancients and may have significant development for Rak. It has very little to do with power levels IMO.
Regarding the strength of Jinsung - he’s one of the oldest in the Tower. To hype him that only a family head can take him is a bit much, but he’s likely on a similar level to Evankhell.
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Also against some enemies Bam will be OPM. Look at Urek, the dude has to resort to using just a finger to make it a “fair” fight against another ranker. Bam isn’t there yet but one day he will be.
So you want TOG to be like OPM when you can enjoy baam beating the shit of the villains guy, his friends defeating FH .
I also don't understand why people overestimate jinsung so much! Is it because of his prestation agaisnt mashenny ?
I even saw people posting That he is probably top 50 or ranked between top 30, and now people believe that only yurin or the twins can take care of him.
For me he is weaker than Evankhell and kallavan for sure, if he was so strong SIU would have let Evankhell out of this arc and let jinsung deal with kallavan.
Kallavan isn't the only antagonist this arc though. Kallavan is without a doubt the big bad for the time being but even without him you have chunhee whom even yuri regards as dangerous. A fellow Ha whom yuri regards as dangerous is not something to make light of. There is also that ari girl, she's a huge wildcard considering we know crap about the ari family in general. And she seems reasonably well positioned in the army as well. And of course, you also have a bunch of other high rankers. Evankhell is without a speck of a doubt a big deal but if kallavan, chunhee, a bunch of other high rankers and other 10 family rankers are in the mix then it does not seem like evankhell alone should be enough. At the moment it seems like bam's allies are jinsung, yuri, evankhell, evan and YHS. And YHS doesn't seem to be that big a deal in general, he seems more like the high rankers white could foderize considering he almost got nuked by that anti high ranker weapon. Evan isn't particularly powerful either. Evan can probably handle a few karaka's worth of rankers but he might be lacking when it comes to top high ranker combat. Overall at the most if you have evankhell, jinsung and yuri on the same side you are at best even with a force that contains kallavan, chunhee and a few other wildcard high rankers.
So you want TOG to be like OPM when you can enjoy baam beating the shit of the villains guy, his friends defeating FH .
I also don't understand why people overestimate jinsung so much! Is it because of his prestation agaisnt mashenny ?
I even saw people posting That he is probably top 50 or ranked between top 30, and now people believe that only yurin or the twins can take care of him.
For me he is weaker than Evankhell and kallavan for sure, if he was so strong SIU would have let Evankhell out of this arc and let jinsung deal with kallavan.
Atleast we have seen what Jinsung is able to do when he is not even serious? Tell me what you have seen from Kallavan? People are overestimsting Kallavan when they haven’t even seen him doing anything? I don’t see your point here. Just because Kallavan is the leader of the fourth army doesn’t say that he is stronger than Jinsung? White’s last attack was compared to Kallavan but that attack looked nothing like the red drop that Jinsung used against Machenny? What is there to overestimate about Jinsung? This guy killed an entire branch and disappeared just like that. He has been inactive but don’t let that make you think that Kallavan is stronger.
And also, Jinsung getting killed by Yurin or one of her two children would be better story writing. I never said that Jinsung is at Yurins lvl or her children. A ha member killing of a fellow ha member that sided with FUG is better story writing than A guy named ”Kallavan” defeating someone who took down a entire branch alone.
Not really OPM but definitely Bam to be strong enough to be a threat to Zahard and we can go from there. I would say V was a threat to zahard as well but he lost. In a war a lot of things matter especially when Zahard still holds the immortality spell.
And Post zahard there might be more issues depending on what SIU think of. May be Zahard sealed off the tower at 135 because something terrible lies beyond and Bams opening will unleash that and Bam has to fight it which might challenge him in his full power. Who knows, but yeah i want him to Thrash zahards squadron. Both Phantaminum and Enryu did it, Urek simply doesnt bother because he isnt even bothered with Tower politics I d love Bam to follow the trail of Enryu and phanta.
What do you want to see from Bam and Tog? Bam being weaker than Yuri like Evan and leading a rag tag bunch against zahard even though he is hyped to have potential to even be a threat to zahard from the start?
Surely not the baam that i want, enry and phanta ? Where is the difference with OPM, they can solo all the tower by themselves.
So you want baam to trash a whole army corp, sqadron is inferior to division so the term is not exact, and you will complain when baam friends become useless or expect them to follow the speed of an irregular.
Regarding the strength of Jinsung - he’s one of the oldest in the Tower. To hype him that only a family head can take him is a bit much, but he’s likely on a similar level to Evankhell.
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Also against some enemies Bam will be OPM. Look at Urek, the dude has to resort to using just a finger to make it a “fair” fight against another ranker. Bam isn’t there yet but one day he will be.
He is not the oldest, there are tons of people older than him, he was born the empire was already formed, there are people older than him, people who were there during the great journey like Quadrado or others 10 families members.
Atleast we have seen what Jinsung is able to do when he is not even serious? Tell me what you have seen from Kallavan? People are overestimsting Kallavan when they haven’t even seen him doing anything? I don’t see your point here. Just because Kallavan is the leader of the fourth army doesn’t say that he is stronger than Jinsung? White’s last attack was compared to Kallavan but that attack looked nothing like the red drop that Jinsung used against Machenny? What is there to overestimate about Jinsung? This guy killed an entire branch and disappeared just like that. He has been inactive but don’t let that make you think that Kallavan is stronger.
And also, Jinsung getting killed by Yurin or one of her two children would be better story writing. I never said that Jinsung is at Yurins lvl or her children. A ha member killing of a fellow ha member that sided with FUG is better story writing than A guy named ”Kallavan” defeating someone who took down a entire branch alone.
It's normal to overestimate him because of his position, the guy is the commander of the 4th army corp, that means only 3 people have his grade in the army, the 1st,2nd and 3rd amry corps commanders, and adori being their superior.
While last attack was said to be powerful enough to reach kallavan, also white last attack looked way more impressive than jinsung red drop which is probably a low tier jinsung skill, also ha family deadly attack are more shinsoo renforcment techniques.
Branch can be very weak, looks at kaiser branch or the branch of the 10 families where androssi was adopted and which only have one ranker.
Also it would not make sense for yurin ( who is said to rest in her main house and don't care about her family affairs managed by the twins) to go after jinsung when she has not fought since the Great journey, and why would the twins move now when jinsung has killed the branch a long time ago, if they cared so much they would have tried to find him a long time ago.
Also there is probably HR strong like jinsung in each family, i expect the koon and the arie at least to have a HR on the level of jinsung .
@kkck i want to mention that you are probably right since there is 3rd division coming with the commander at the level of Sharon and chunhee and kallavan main corp with that huge ship which was at the 52th floor with alot of HR and rankers, he probably has the main force with him since chunhee division was just the advanced team.
I just read that Baam is weak and cant stand against hight rankers like Chunlee,Kallavan and Sharon....but he is speacial a fighting prodigy with great potential and skill.Gustang and Evanknell cant hold all the hight rankers so we need for the main hero to step right into the fire and to show who he is the son of V and Arlene the child that will destroy the system in the Tower and will became the light in the dark tower.
No. If he can take on one or two of the normal Rankers in the force, then that's all that can reasonably be expected of him right now. You mentioned Gustang, but I think you meant Jinsung. If Gustang does show, he can pretty much obliterate Kallavan and his forces on his own.
No I don't think baam can take a high ranker and especially a commander, at least not now, he may be able to hold on for awhile but I definitely don't think he can defeat a high ranker.
Quite frankly, I'd think bam would struggle against even an average ranker right now. If it comes to any of the high rankers we have seen so far I'd think the scenario would be the following:
Bam summons as many orbs as he can. Last we saw it was 3.
Activates his thorn.
Bam activates his admin powers.
Bam uses all of that to make his triple orb boosted fourth orb.
Fires his blast that matched zahard's needle attack at chunhee's completely unprotected face. Not even shinsoo reinforcement. And chunhee will proceed to not feel a god damn thing. She will wonder which worthless ranker she has to fire for leaving a window which allowed an unnecessary draft into her presence.
That said, there is a caveat here. Bam from the point he fought zahard will only grow in strength even faster than before. He is actually on his way to catching up the family heads. And he has to do that at around the time he finishes climbing the tower, not after he finishes climbing. We have also seen that good old urek is capable of defeating powerful rankers with a mere finger. Which is.... 1% of urek's strength? So if bam wants to defeat zahard he needs to grow say... 1%-ish of urek's strength every floor until he reaches the 134th floor. And of course, it has been a month or so since the fight with data zahard. So its a real possibility that bam's strength has increased an important portion of that 1% he needs per floor. Normally climbing a floor takes well over a month after all. Urek climbed the tower in 50 years iirc. Meaning it took him around 4-5 months per floor. Anyways, I'd say its plausible the growth bam went through over the past month is enough to give him a comfortable advantage over a normal ranker. Still a far cry from a high ranker though.
I never thought my post would have this many responses haha
