Discussion Official Rachel Discussion Thread

[Jammin]

For efficiencies sake I've merged the various Rachel discussion threads into one thread and redid the poll. All votes have been reset and can now be changed at will.

I dont get it where is the option of 'she is a b' ?

I took that out. I can add it back if you really want though.

 

[shaheer]

Nah, I am cool. The trash human being kinda does her a justice.

 

[kkck]

I dont get it where is the option of 'she is a b' ?

I like that theory. But doesnt that make Rachel a bit too powerful i mean its arlene we are talking about one of the strongest chara in so far.

Not even a little bit. The key here is that the cave would have been located outside the tower. Outside the tower arlene would have been a mere mortal which means she can die like a mere mortal. Which opens up the possibility that rachel could have done something stupid (or evil) when arlene was vulnerable. It is entirely possible that there wasn't even any shinsoo at the cave.

 

[Shobu_Yoruichi]

I just love my Rachel-chwann~~!! <<3 She's awesome! a baddy, but awesome xD.

Btw, i like the theory of her working as Arlene's maid.

 

[Venior]

Alright, I've been thinking up this theory for some time now and I figured it would be best to share it. Let me know what you think and help me figure this out!

This theory is up to date with the latest released version of TOG English translation, so it shouldn't be breaking any rules. Of course, let me know if it is, though, and I'll immediately correct my mistake.


Alright, so here goes.

Spoiler

Rachel is the daughter of Arlene Grace and Zahard.

Hear me out, alright? So we both know Zahard officially has no true blooded children because his power is too great and would result in the child or mother of the child becoming weak and dying. Basically, it's explained that Zahard is far too powerful, and the Princesses exist to decide who he'll "mate" with. Of course, there's a bunch of questions and controversy about that too, but we'll talk about this later.

Arlene was strong enough to birth a child of Zahard. It's one of the reasons why he fell in love with her. We know that he loves power and even seeks out more power thinking it'll help him win her over. He becomes King of the Tower just to make her fall in love with him over V, so it's easy to assume she's rather strong if he thinks so highly of having power.

Not only that, but the name Grace itself is legendary, and Arlene was supposed to be one of the irregulars who'd become a Great Family Leader.


So with the understanding that Arlene was one of the few women who were strong enough to handle Zahard, we can figure out one of the reasons he fell in love and was almost addicted to her.

We also know that Zahard killed her child, born from Arlene and V, which is later explained to be Baam/Viole. Well, it's heavily implied.

The issue I'm having with this is that Arlene seemed to love her child, just as much as she loved V, so how could Zahard have killed the baby unless he physically took it from her? It's extremely dark, but I believe he found Arlene, stole her baby from her, killed it, and then raped her. He desired her after all, and he was capable of killing a child, I have no doubt he'd take the next step. This would also explain why Eurasia Enne Zahard went on a rampage. She was angry at not only Zahard using the Princesses to silence dissent but also upset at Zahard for the tragedy he caused to Lady Arlene, whom Eurasia Enn Zahard had just recently learned about. Zahard must have confirmed that he has a true daughter, meaning he has no need for a wife or a child and is merely after Arlene now, maybe he's also after Rachel, but she left him to fulfill her mothers' prophecy.

This would all explain why Rachel in [Season 2] Ep. 240 believe she's the child of the legend and will be the one to end Zahard's madness and find the beautiful sky her mother desired. She is the child of Arlene, but she's a bastard. She's the child of hate, the child of suffering. It would also explain her attitude and disposition. We can see in Game of Thrones, children of hate, incest, and sufferings tend to be hateful and more sinister. Rachel truly thinks she's the child of the legend, and she hates those who oppose her, and deny her birthright. She doesn't know of Baam's true heritage, and only knows that Arlene and Viole are connected by some lunatic string of events, thus she uses him to achieve her goals.

I actually think she believes Viole is the one who brings her the Red Thorn to kill Zahard, which in truth is actually Enryu's job for Viole. She's so self-absorbed and single-minded she can't see the obvious because it's all she's ever known. All she knows is the beautiful sky her mother might've told her about as a baby. In fact, my theory goes one step beyond that.


Arlene gave birth to Rachel before Viole came back to life in the cave and simply left her behind with the God to oversee the cave. It would explain why Rachel was the only one who had access when all others, the entire universe was cut off. Rachel was waiting for the prophecy. She was waiting to gain access to the Tower through that monstrous child locked inside the cave. Viole WAS her Enryu. The monster who'd deliver her a weapon to slay Zahard.

 

[Demonspeed]

Hmm... We know that Zahard's blood is powerful but we don't really know what happens to the women or children. Same for the reasons he fell for Arlen, I doubt it was because of her powers(it's not actually confirmed that she can support his blood but I think it's the case). Zahard seems to be someone who got corrupted as he climbed the Tower, I don't think he was so power hungry before, and he wanted that power to stand above everyone. I considered the possibility that he might have raped her but it's hard for me to imagine that she would have let a child like that alive.

I think Rachel could be from the 10 Families, but not that she has Zahard's blood. With her Michelle Light's nickname and position of Light Bearer, I think she could be related to the Tu Perie Family instead. The 10 Warriors were against Arlen and V but a few ones might have helped her, secretly or in another way.

 

[Jammin]

I kind of like this theory.

Maybe I'm imagining it but don't Rachel and Wangan look a little similar? And in that brief glimpse we had of the back of Zahard's head in Garam's tale it looked to me like he had blonde hair too. Her twisted personality would make a lot more sense if she was raised by a mother who hated her. I mean, Baam would have been the important one in Arlen's eyes. Rachel would have been a living reminder of Zahard.

That would explain a whole lot about her and what she's trying to do.

Her supplanting Baam in the role Arlen had imagined for him would just be her trying to prove herself to a mother that never recognized or loved her. To prove to herself that she's more than that.

Yeah, I like that a lot.

 

[Venior]

I kind of like this theory.

Maybe I'm imagining it but don't Rachel and Wangan look a little similar? And in that brief glimpse we had of the back of Zahard's head in Garam's tale it looked to me like he had blonde hair too. Her twisted personality would make a lot more sense if she was raised by a mother who hated her. I mean, Baam would have been the important one in Arlen's eyes. Rachel would have been a living reminder of Zahard.

That would explain a whole lot about her and what she's trying to do.

Her supplanting Baam in the role Arlen had imagined for him would just be her trying to prove herself to a mother that never recognized or loved her. To prove to herself that she's more than that.

Yeah, I like that a lot.

I'm so glad someone else can see this too!

You definitely said it better than I could, though, so well done.

 

[requiem46]

To be honest, I thought exactly the same. I don't think Arlene went entirely insane because Jahad killed the baby in front of her. After all, it seems V wasn't insane and just killed himself because Arlene had gone mental and he had no other people to go to.

Killing the baby and then being raped, jowever... perhaps she did not even tell of the rape to V, nor to her pocket/diary because of her shame in all this tale

 

[Venior]

To be honest, I thought exactly the same. I don't think Arlene went entirely insane because Jahad killed the baby in front of her. After all, it seems V wasn't insane and just killed himself because Arlene had gone mental and he had no other people to go to.

Killing the baby and then being raped, jowever... perhaps she did not even tell of the rape to V, nor to her pocket/diary because of her shame in all this tale

Oh wow, an interesting twist.

Maybe Zahard doesn't even know that Rachel exists. Only Arlene was aware the rape had impregnated her, which was why she ran. Her son was killed, and she now carried the devil child of Zahard.

That definitely throws a different twist onto it. Perhaps even Rachel has no idea she's Zahard's kid, which is why she seems to only be interested in Arlene and the sky she wanted to see.

 

[kkck]

We were never told one of the reasons zahard loved arlene was because she could bear his children. If anything, given how the princess thing turned out we can be reasonably sure children are not a priority to zahard himself. Others might care about that but not zahard. Otherwise the princesses wouldn't still be in this mess and anne zahard wouldn't have gone insane.

As for zahard raping arlene, I wouldn't rule it out. However I would rule out rachel being zahard's daughter. She just doesn't have any real qualities. You'd expect a son of zahard to have inherited some of zahard's power just as bam inherited power or just how any other descendant of the 13 guys who climbed the tower has insane talent. If rachel was the daughter of zahard then she would at least exhibit unusual talent controlling shinso and who knows what else... However she clearly doesn't. I doubt she could take wangnan on her own.

 

[Hiddenprince]

As for zahard raping arlene, I wouldn't rule it out. However I would rule out rachel being zahard's daughter. She just doesn't have any real qualities. You'd expect a son of zahard to have inherited some of zahard's power just as bam inherited power or just how any other descendant of the 13 guys who climbed the tower has insane talent. If rachel was the daughter of zahard then she would at least exhibit unusual talent controlling shinso and who knows what else... However she clearly doesn't. I doubt she could take wangnan on her own.

what if arlene had binded rachel by a spell because she couldn't kill her? She might have used a spell on her that would limit her ablities inside the towers or something with controlling shinshoo.

 

[kkck]

what if arlene had binded rachel by a spell because she couldn't kill her? She might have used a spell on her that would limit her ablities inside the towers or something with controlling shinshoo.

IMHO that would be impossible. Of course, that is not set in stone, there is a lot I don't know about this but the implications here would be kinda staggering. Shinso control is granted through contracts. Even irregulars work by that logic though they are automatically given permission to use it. It's not like they force control, they simply have the permission by default. So the way I see it for arlene to have done this she would have had to come up with a spell outside the tower that would have prevented rachel from properly using shinso in spite of having the authority to use it from the moment she stepped in. The key part here is the permission irregulars by default have to use shinsoo. who grants them that permission? Either the tower itself or the administrators would be the reasonable options given what we know. So arlene, from outside the tower, would have had to come up with a spell which overrode the authority and power of the administrators and plausibly even the tower itself just to nag rachel. The lore doesn't make your suggestion impossible but arlene overriding the authority of the guardians and perhaps even the tower seems.... well

 

[shionoro]

I dont think so for an easy reason:

Rachel is the antithesis of Baam.
He is the night, and she is the stars.
He is strong, she is weak.
He makes friends, she is hated.
He is naive and pure, she is corrupted and jealous.
He is special and she is not.

Rachel cannot be special. Rachel is the kind of character who would deceive a dying mother about there being a paradise on the outside to find a ticket to the inside in her son, because that is Rachel's only way to get anywhere. She is noone who would have had a kingdom on the outside, or even be rich, or even be free or happy.
Rachel is someone who has nothing, and that is what drives her to the things she does and to climb the tower.
And to accept every little humiliation just in order to keep going.

Her being the child of Zahard would make no sense for me in that regard.
It would also not be understandable to me how someone who is the child of zahard and another irregular could be unable to get into the tower by herself or by being chosen.

 

[kkck]

I dont think so for an easy reason:

Rachel is the antithesis of Baam.
He is the night, and she is the stars.
He is strong, she is weak.
He makes friends, she is hated.
He is naive and pure, she is corrupted and jealous.
He is special and she is not.

Rachel cannot be special. Rachel is the kind of character who would deceive a dying mother about there being a paradise on the outside to find a ticket to the inside in her son, because that is Rachel's only way to get anywhere. She is noone who would have had a kingdom on the outside, or even be rich, or even be free or happy.
Rachel is someone who has nothing, and that is what drives her to the things she does and to climb the tower.
And to accept every little humiliation just in order to keep going.

Her being the child of Zahard would make no sense for me in that regard.
It would also not be understandable to me how someone who is the child of zahard and another irregular could be unable to get into the tower by herself or by being chosen.

I don't think rachel works as an antithesis to bam. At least not in the way you have portrayed it. She is the stars? What does that mean? With bam his name seems to be a reference to something specific... Rachel wants to see the stars but there is no relevant manner in which she "is" the stars. She's just rachel. As for rachel being hated... I am not sure that is accurate either. It is absolutely true bam makes friends and rachel doesn't but her allies don't hate her. At least I don't see a single ally to rachel who is actually hated. Where you are right is in the pure part and the jealousy and most likely about bam being special and rachel... not being special. But that alone is not quite enough to portray rachel as an antithesis to bam.

As for the next paragraph, setting the part about the mother the whole thing actually portrays rachel in a fairly possitive light. I mean, she is someone who has nothing and is striving to climb however she plausibly can. Does that make bam someone who has everything? Granted he has his astounding talent but bam having everything is a vast overstatement.

Of course, her being the child of zahard does not make sense. How would a child of zahard even end up outside the tower? How can a child of zahard be so average at shinso, if that? If she was a child of zahard then all she would have to do is proclaim it and she would be treated like a princess. Her standing in the tower would be comparable to the 10 heads, if not greater. She would be second only to zahard.

Rachel is not an antithesis to bam. She is simply , and in no uncertain terms, a cunt (I specifically use that word because she is so lowly she would aspire to be a bitch). She is evil and twisted. She cruelly kept bam in that cave, presumably so she could enter the tower. She doesn't make friends because she doesn't give two shits about them. She gathers people whom she uses to her means and discards without a care. She is petty, small, insignificant, jealous. She is a rodent who claws at things she can't have and when confronted about it she acts like the vindictive miserable bitch she is (note what she did to khun's team and dan). Granted she does not have bam's talent for shinso but so what? Most people don't and yet they don't go around killing people or betraying them. Bam entered the tower because he cared enough about rachel to risk his life. Rachel when presented with the same opportunity simply was not willing to take the chance, her ambition was simply not that big to her. Granted that most people in her position probably would not have taken the test but that is sort of the point of why bam passed to begin with. It's not like bam had overwhelming power at that time.

 

[Demonspeed]

I dont think so for an easy reason:

Rachel is the antithesis of Baam.
He is the night, and she is the stars.
He is strong, she is weak.
He makes friends, she is hated.
He is naive and pure, she is corrupted and jealous.
He is special and she is not.

Rachel cannot be special. Rachel is the kind of character who would deceive a dying mother about there being a paradise on the outside to find a ticket to the inside in her son, because that is Rachel's only way to get anywhere. She is noone who would have had a kingdom on the outside, or even be rich, or even be free or happy.
Rachel is someone who has nothing, and that is what drives her to the things she does and to climb the tower.
And to accept every little humiliation just in order to keep going.

Her being the child of Zahard would make no sense for me in that regard.
It would also not be understandable to me how someone who is the child of zahard and another irregular could be unable to get into the tower by herself or by being chosen.

I would not say that she is the perfect antithesis of Baam, I see the night-stars thing but I don't agree with most of the rest. As an Irregular, she is special, but not as special as she wants to be. And I think Yura can be considered her friend.

 

[jjrock01]

It is an enticing theory, but we still don't have enough info on the events involving Arlene and zahard yet. I maintain that rachel knew Arlene, but not directly related. Rachel being related to the 10 families is not out of the question, but maybe one of the lesser branches. Arlene told Rachel about Baam and Rachel through some blind ambition chose to use Baam in order to further those ambitions to see the stars.

 

[Rigval]

Well it's possible. Not very likely but possible. I would like to know what Rachel really is myself and how she knows so much about Arlene.

 

[Ripcord]

I voted for not all bad based on recent events. I've always felt there is more going on, given the complexity of all the stuff going on the Floor of the Tests. I hate to say it but it's almost playing out like a Naruto and Sasuke thing, where one/some of their (meaning Baam and Rachel) motivations are similar but their methods are anything but.

 

[Jammin]

I'm going from "Trash human" to "Not all bad." That's as far as I'm willing to bump her up.

Her rejection of fate is something I can't not like. The problem is the rest of her and everything she's done is still pretty awful. So I'd still never characterize her as good.