Kaido is called the most powerful creature & not oni is called the most powerful creature otherwise yamato will also be called the most powerful creature which she is not.
Err... You do know Strongest Creature can only be 1, not 2 or 3.
Fastest animal on Land... It's not Cheetah and Gazelle, it's just Cheetah.
Didn't say the top 2 strongest, it said strongest creature (not plural).
Strongest Creature is Ogre (Kaido's race).
If you understand my logic, you couldn't claim Jimbei as the strongest creature. Creature is not a term for individuals, but a term for race species.
Strongest Creature on Land is not Bill the Elephant, it's just Elephants because of their size, muscles mass, bone density, weight, etc. It's just a general fact.
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If there was a hierarchy for the strongest creatures in One Piece in terms of durability which is what's highlighted:
@Hannibal Psyche i second this.
Kidd killer have been in NW for 2 years... fought vs shanks & still consider kaido as wsp.
Kaido is the strongest individual beacuse of this wsp as well.
@Hannibal Psyche i second this.
Kidd killer have been in NW for 2 years... fought vs shanks & still consider kaido as wsp.
Kaido is the strongest individual beacuse of this wsp as well.
More importantly, stop focusing on 最強生物. Let me break this term down for you using a reliable Japanese dictionary.
最強 - You can see Saikyou means strongest. Combines the kanji of most + strong. Pretty straightforward for a language that uses the kanji for "golden" and "ball" to mean testicles.
生物 - You can see Seibutsu means living thing / living organism.
Kidd referred to Kaido as 最強の海賊 (strongest pirate).
To the point about Nami's questioning if he's human - Law referred to him by his epithet: 百獣のカイドウ - Kaido of the Animal Kingdom. At this point we can reasonably assume that Nami is pretty ignorant about the Beast Pirates in general based on her reactions, so to her this sentence from Law would sound more like "Kaido of the Animal Kingdom is the strongest creature in the world!"
There's a similar vocabulary for humans: 万人
So to flip the situation around a little bit you can imagine you're talking to a friend, and he tells you "Kaido of the humans is the strongest animal in the world!" you would ask, "Wait, he's not an animal then?" because it's very confusing. Japanese is a context heavy language and doesn't always translate well. I think Oda is intentionally being ambiguous here, too. In the sentence Law referred to Kaido as "otoko"
The other thing is the way these sentences are all structured don't really make sense for how you want them to be interpreted. You keep using stuff like Cheetahs as an example, but you need one more layer of abstraction.
Let's say Chester (a cheetah) is being talked about in similar context.
"Chester of the big-cats is the fastest creature on the planet!" - why would we refer to Chester in this context with such ambiguity? If Cheetahs as a species are the fastest land-mammal, then we would simply say "The Cheetah is the fastest land mammal on the planet." If we want to outline that Cheetahs are the fastest land mammal on the planet, and that Chester is one of these "creatures" then we would simply say "Chester is a cheetah, the fastest land-mammal on the planet".
If Chester is the fastest cheetah on the planet, then we would say Chester is the fastest land-mammal on the planet. Do we go to rural Mississippi and pull Billy Bob Bubba Hickman out of his shack for a Planet Earth documentary and narrate that "Here we have Billy Bob Bubba Hickman, the most intelligent creature on the planet!" Most people would be oddly curious why you chose Mr. Hickman of rural Mississippi specifically to outline that humans are the most intelligent creature on the planet when you could have gone to Shibuya or Time Square and filmed it for 1 minute to say simply "Here we have humans, the most intelligent creatures on the planet." They would jump to the conclusion that Billy Bob Bubba Hickman is actually the most intelligent human on the planet and that humans are the most intelligent creatures on the planet based on how the sentence is structured.
If you take it a step further and do a drag and drop translation of what Law said with my example (Law essentially said "Animal Kingdom Kaido is said to be the strongest creature in the world!"
Let's have some fun with it: 万人のビーリって男はこの世における最も賢い生物と言われてる - "Billy of the people is said to be the smartest creature in the world." Do you really interpret that as Billy being used as an example of the one of 7B+ humans to show that humans are the most "intelligent creatures" in the world? You don't think that maybe it's possible that you're being a bit stubborn here? I mean another example..
"Chucky the chicken is the most delicious bird on the planet!" - Why Chucky? Why not "Chucky is a chicken, the most delicious bird on the planet"
With Kaido it gets even weirder. "The beast Kaido is the strongest creature on the planet".
"The beast Billy is the smartest creature on the planet"
"The human Bano is the most musical creature on the planet"
Even recent Magazines... released last month? According to some translators... Strongest Creature TWICE in this Magazine.
Consistently since 2013, he's only ever referred to as creature. I think it makes sense that the 1 time he's actually called the strongest pirate, it's likely a mistake because even information about Kaido as far back as a month or 2... says creature.
"Chester of the big-cats is the fastest creature on the planet!" - why would we refer to Chester in this context with such ambiguity? If Cheetahs as a species are the fastest land-mammal, then we would simply say "The Cheetah is the fastest land mammal on the planet."
Even Big Mom referred to him a "that thing", therefore, his race has always been a subject that's unknown to the reader all the way from 795 to chapter 871 all the way to the most recent chapters that actually reveal he's an Ogre.
Entire reason Nami even questioned his race was because his race was unspecified.
Very fact he's called Creature more or less is proof it's been about the fact he's of a different race that's not Human.
If Kaido was the strongest man or Pirate, his race didn't have to be involved, it's irrelevant. Just call him Kaido, strongest Pirate all the way from 2013 till now consistently, and there'd be no argument, but he literally isn't called Strongest Man/Pirate except the 1 occasion which is likely a mistake.
It's like someone being called David for 20 years and then 1 day, someone calls him Philip, common sense would say... David is his actual name and Philip is more likely a mistake.
2 things I would say is that kaido’s title got announced after the death of whitebeard so really it doesn’t contradict anything
Also if you think about I would still argue that the time of his death whitebeard really wasn’t the strongest man alive as he got the title when he was healthier , stronger and more vital and there was no reason for people to believe he had lost it ( but that’s just my opinion)
Plus if kaido isn’t a man but a living creature he can’t be referred to as the worlds strongest man , considering the way he talks about humans , he clearly considers himself above them , as well as big mum calling him a thing it’s clear he’s not a man , can’t
In a 1 on 1 fight bet on kaido, I dunno there’s too many epithets describing him as the strongest fighter going right now
And even if luffy wins it’s hella clear he isn’t the strongest there is
Kaido's title of "strongest creature" is intentional. He's an Oni. He's also the captain of the Beast Pirate. And lastly, this is in part due to his Devil Fruit, which transforms him into a Dragon.
Kaido is the strongest creature. He would defeat any creature in a 1-on-1, such as Zunisha for example.
He's also the strongest man or pirate, since no one is as strong as him.
He's an Oni, but he's also a "man" just like Fish-men or Minks.
Even recent Magazines... released last month? According to some translators... Strongest Creature TWICE in this Magazine.
Consistently since 2013, he's only ever referred to as creature. I think it makes sense that the 1 time he's actually called the strongest pirate, it's likely a mistake because even information about Kaido as far back as a month or 2... says creature.
Doesn't make sense. Saying King of Beasts is similar to say Zookeeper. No one hears that someone is the leader of animals, so therefore isn't Human.
Creature is why she recognised he's not Human, but you're twisting things because you're trying to force creature to have a meaning it doesn't have.
Simple.
What did Big Mom refer to Kaido as?
You cloaked on to the ambiguity, but you don't quite realise it because you don't read in context.
Even Big Mom referred to him a "that thing", therefore, his race has always been a subject that's unknown to the reader all the way from 795 to chapter 871 all the way to the most recent chapters that actually reveal he's an Ogre.
Entire reason Nami even questioned his race was because his race was unspecified.
Very fact he's called Creature more or less is proof it's been about the fact he's of a different race that's not Human.
Like I said, If Kaido was the strongest man or Pirate, he'd simply have been called this...
If Kaido was the strongest man or Pirate, his race didn't have to be involved, it's irrelevant. Just call him Kaido, strongest Pirate all the way from 2013 till now consistently, and there'd be no argument, but he literally isn't called Strongest Man/Pirate except the 1 occasion which is likely a mistake.
It's like someone being called David for 20 years and then 1 day, someone calls him Philip, common sense would say... David is his actual name and Philip is more likely a mistake.
Re: Killer’s statement on Kaido being the strongest pirate being a mistake - it’s not. The official Japanese is very clear. 最強の海賊. Strongest pirate is a subset of “strongest creature” so technically what Killer is saying is correct.
As for why they didn’t call him the strongest man, pirate, person and instead used the word creature?
It’s simple really. The latter is more all encompassing. it includes every single living thing from Zunisha to Tama to Garp.
Re: the page you pasted that is 100% in Japanese. I’m not really sure what you’re trying to show there. It literally just reads like:
“Kaido is the strongest man (of all animals) in the world.
He thinks power is everything.
He believes in himself.
He doesn’t go easy on weak.
King is his second in command and nobody knows his face.
Do you want to join the Beast Piratesv”
e: Killer’s statement on Kaido being the strongest pirate being a mistake - it’s not. The official Japanese is very clear. 最強の海賊. Strongest pirate is a subset of “strongest creature” so technically what Killer is saying is correct.
The VIZ also states that Oden was similar age to Shanks and Buggy. VIz makes mistakes too.
Looks like a mistake because it's the only instance.
From 2013 when Kaido was introduced, Magazines, Vivre Cards ALL have said Strongest Creature, even as far back as last month, Strongest Creature. So, it definitely looks like a Magazine.
If you want to call a character the strongest, just say they're the strongest Pirate and there's literally no debate to be had.
Creature isn't encompassing.
Arlong spoke about Fishman race being superior to the Human species.
Fishman race is superior to the Human race.
Shanks is superior to Jimbei.
An individual doesn't elevate a race.
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Creature refers to Individual is the same absurdity that requires a person to say since Manchester United is the best Team in the World, therefore Ronaldo is the best Player in the world. Manchester United being the best team doesn't necessarily mean a player from Manchester is individually the best in the world.
Distinction between a Team and Player is pretty identical to Race and Individual. Can't call a Player a Team just like a Creature doesn't refer to an Individual. Team identifies a group or belong to a group; Creature identifies the race/species one belongs to.
Whitebeard didn't have a Poneglyph.
Stated to be the closest to the one piece because he's the strongest Pirate since Roger. Whitebeard.. called the King/Ruler of the seas.
Kaido? King of the seea? Closest to the One Piece? No... they're debating that 1 of the Emperors could end up ruling the seas, or the Worst Generation... or the WG.
If Kaido really was the strongest... he should be considered closest to the One Piece.
The VIZ also states that Oden was similar age to Shanks and Buggy. VIz makes mistakes too.
Looks like a mistake because it's the only instance.
From 2013 when Kaido was introduced, Magazines, Vivre Cards ALL have said Strongest Creature, even as far back as last month, Strongest Creature. So, it definitely looks like a Magazine.
I think this is where you are getting hung up. Nobody is questioning this. They are questioning your personal interpretation of what strongest creature means. Oda put "strongest Pirate" into the panel that Killer spoke, himself. Even if he was as you suggest, making a "mistake", it would still lend to the fact that his subconscious suggested that he write Strongest Pirate there, meaning that he likely believes that to be true. Age is an easier thing to get hung up on. Saying "Oden is the same age as Shanks" is more understandably a mistake than if they had printed, say, "Oden was a merchant."
Uh, Akainu isn't a pirate. Im isn't a pirate. Garp isn't a pirate. Coby isn't a pirate. Creature is more encompassing. Akainu is by definition a creature. So are Garp, Coby, and Im. Pirate is very limiting as not everyone in OP is a pirate, and not even all the people Luffy will fight and struggle against are going to be Pirates. Strongest Pirate just means strongest pirate. In a world run by a central government with a powerful marine organization that doesn't mean much.
Superiority is subjective. The strongest "ant" doesn't win the most "dominant ant". Arlong arc happened before Haki, likely before Kaido was ever conceived, and the racial tensions of that arc have nothing to do with the discussion we're having.
The absurdity that Creature refers to Individual is the same absurdity that requires a person to say since Manchester United is the best Team in the World, therefore Ronaldo is the best Player in the world. Manchester United being the best team doesn't necessarily mean a player from Manchester is individually the best in the world.
Distinction between a Team and Player is pretty identical to Race and Individual. Can't call a Player a Team just like a Creature doesn't refer to an Individual. Team identifies a group or belong to a group; Creature identifies the race/species one belongs to.
If you want to limit your understanding of the English language you can have at this kind of logic. You always remove the important layers of abstraction though. Details are important. Cheetahs are objectively the fastest land mammals. There is no instance that another land-mammal will beat a cheetah in a sprint. This creates a situation where the fastest cheetah is by default the fastest land mammal.
Teams have defense, offense, leaders, coaches, fans, revenue, coordination. It's rare for one team to be the best at everything, thus your example about "best team" -> "best player" when team encompasses many skillsets that are all important is irrelevant. We're talking about the strongest.
Your points have been:
Creature means species
You've been shown dictionary definitions, thesaurus antonyms, synonyms, the breakdown from a native Japanese speaker, the poorly translated panels you've used in their original, pure, Japanese form with further break downs. You're being stubborn here.
Nami questioned if Kaido is "even human"
Shown that the sentence she is responding to is very ambiguous and the way it's structured would make any ignorant person question Kaido's "species / race". "The man, Beast Kaido, is the strongest creature on the planet, people say." -> "A man, but called beast Kaido, and of the Animal Kingdom?!?!"
Whitebeard is the strongest human
Whitebeard died in Marineford and it's been brought up multiple times by @Lord Traffy Law that Kaido's new epithet had never been used before the timeskip. So Whitebeard's previous status is irrelevant. Kaido was never referred to as "the strongest creature" while Whitebeard was the "strongest man" simultaneously. Whitebeard is not the strongest human, because he's dead, and we do not consider dead people in current titles.
If he was the strongest they'd call him the strongest pirate, not creature
Strongest Pirate excludes a large portion of strong people in the OP verse. Namely anyone in the marines, including Sakazuki who blew off half of Whitebeard's (at the time the strongest man) face, killed Ace, and stood off against the brunt of the Whitebeard Pirates, as well as forced Blackbeard and his entire crew to flee, leaving a valuable hostage (Bonney).
「最強の海賊」
Honestly, if you could show me some objective evidence that isn't based on your relying on one of four-to-five definitions of a single word, I'd admit defeat. This is one of the cases where I'm pretty solidly sure that I'm 100% correct though. You're hinging onto one thing that you don't really even have full understanding of - a word, and when people show you counter-evidence you claim the publisher is making mistakes. The arrogance is staggering that you will even refute the words in the manga themselves saying that either the Mangaka himself, or the publisher made a mistake.
Oda put "strongest Pirate" into the panel that Killer spoke, himself. Even if he was as you suggest, making a "mistake", it would still lend to the fact that his subconscious suggested that he write Strongest Pirate
When Oda made Pudding 14 years, old, was that a mistake or subconscious?
When Oda said Oden was the same age as Shanks and Buggy when in reality he meant Inuarashi and Nekomamush were the same age as Shanks and Buggy, it's subconscious? Not a mistake.
So, there are roughly 15 instances where Oda whenever he referenced Kaido said "Strongest Creature", and the 16th time in which he says strongest Pirate, it's logically not likely a mistake or an inconsistency?
Uh, Akainu isn't a pirate. Im isn't a pirate. Garp isn't a pirate. Coby isn't a pirate. Creature is more encompassing. Akainu is by definition a creature. So are Garp, Coby, and Im. Pirate is very limiting as not everyone in OP is a pirate, and not even all the people Luffy will fight and struggle against are going to be Pirates. Strongest Pirate just means strongest pirate. In a world run by a central government with a powerful marine organization that doesn't mean much.
Simply call someone strongest man, and it's clear who they are, lol.
Whitebeard was called both the strongest man and Pirate, so we know exactly what it means and how far the term stretches.
Furthermore, Mihawk is called the World's Strongest Swordsman. I guess that needs to say "Pirate Swordsman" or "Navy Swordsman", otherwise, Mihawk's title doesn't simply mean all Swordsmen?
Creature is simply TYPE of Animal. There are only 8.7 Million Types of Animals/Creatures.
If Creature was a term referring to individual, there'd be easily 100 billion Creatures when there are 8 Billion Animals.
There are 25.9 billion Chickens, 8 Billion Humans... with your logic, there should be at least 34 billion creatures, not 8.7 million, lol.
Creature is simply a label to identify what sort of creature an animal belongs to.
It's subconscious, not possibly a mistake? That's nonsense.
When Oda made Pudding 14 years, old, was that a mistake or subconscious?
When Oda said Oden was the same age as Shanks and Buggy when in reality he meant Inuarashi and Nekomamush were the same age as Shanks and Buggy, it's subconscious? Not a mistake.
Let's call out bullshit for what it is, this is a bullshit take, lol.
You're saying it's not a mistake, it's subconscious? Because it benefits your argument. This alone proves you're lacking objectivity like I said.
Let's not get off topic here. The text says Kaido is the strongest pirate. You are the one who thinks that is a mistake. Nobody else does. Or at least nobody who has posted here. As I said, age is easy to mix up. If you asked me my oldest daughter's age I'd just as easily mix up and tell you my middle-child's age.
If I was describing my difficult coworker and accidentally said idiot when I meant to say "difficult" then that's a subconscious thing.
This panel wouldn't have come out as "Pudding is the strongest pirate on the planet!" because there's no subconscious basis for that.
So, there are roughly 15 instances where Oda whenever he referenced Kaido said "Strongest Creature", and the 16th time in which he says strongest Pirate, it's logically not likely a mistake or an inconsistency? You're lacking objectivity, lol.
Call a square a square, a circle a circle. You're not objective.
And for the millionth time, I've explained to you that Strongest Creature includes every living thing on the planet. Kaido is the strongest thing on the planet. That includes humans, rats, bacteria, other pirates, and marines.
You say I'm lacking objectivity but you're the one with about five people refuting everything you say, who keeps hanging onto an inherently flawed argument rooted in a language you don't seem to fully understand.
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it once or twice before, but please use spoilers if you're going to post more than 2 pictures as part of your evidence. The reason is that it takes up so much space and just makes scrolling painful.
