One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[SoulAuron]

And don't you find it odd that whenever Luffy gets a powerup, he always struggles ? Don't you find it bullshit that DD can create clones that can talk from fricking strings ?

It is bullshit really, when you compare to how Luffy struggle to powerup through his DF ability, suddenly out of nowhere characters with bullshit abilities and very convenient to use without drawbacks

I can hardly swallow that Luffy needed Gear 4 to inflict damage on biscuits, again I understand if it coated with Haki which is fine by me, but unless all the clones Cracker made were coated with Haki then it is totally bullshit and unfair

And no, the argument of experience doesn't work well here because Luffy had his DF for more than a decade no, so he's a very experienced DF user already

i think the argument of experience does work, because liffy may have had his df for all that time, but donflamingo and cracker are much older then that and likely have had theirs for at least twice as long.
however even if they had their fruit powers for the same amount of time as luffy it is still not at all bulshit, i just explained how cracker can make super hard biscuits, it just takes a brain to figure it out, for all we know luffy might be able to pull out much stronger abilities if he gets smarter and comes up with more intricate ways to use his DF, saying that every power must be equally good is stupid, if one finds a better way of using his power then everyone else it isnt "bulshit", its his MERIT, and furthermore, you have to remember that DF are not all equal, but just because one DF seems like it is stronger then another it doesnt mean its absolutely inferior, each power has individual potentials of its own, it may be better or worse depending on what exactly it is up against, with such a plaethora of diferent abilities its bound to happen that when tow diferent abilities clash often one will have a distinct advantage, that doesnt make it bulshit at all, its just the inherent nature of difernet abilities, if cracker went up against jimbe he would be fucked, his DF would be useless, and there may be many more types of unfavourable match ups for his power, some a little unfavourable and some a lot, its just that crackers power is exteemely efective against the very straight up melee combat type characters.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't understand how you came to conclude this. At this time, perhaps the Yonkos didn't even exist. It's maybe a title developed in the Roger's era.

Pirates have always existed, it's not something Roger invented. It would be like saying that there weren't ambitious Pirates until Roger appeared. Pirates are people who rob, steal, kill and do whatever they can to increase their wealth and power, so I think it's only logical to assume that Emperors even existed during Roger's era.

Yonko just means 4 Emperors.

Why wouldn't there have been Emperors? An Emperor is just a powerful pirate who exercises authority over a large portion of the New World. Shiki had the biggest fleet, he just couldn't have been gallivanting around, he'd have had a base and territory.

There is always a form of hierarchy due to the need for order and ambition, all that changes with time is the title which is pretty much trivial over time. In the past, we had Chiefs, Emperors, Kings, now we have Presidents and Prime Ministers; they're all just titles, but nonetheless do the same thing.

There may not have been 4 Emperors (Yonko), but there would certainly have been Emperors. It's no different to Supernova, they're just Super Rookies. Supernova just represents the 11 Supernova just like Yonko represents the 4 Emperors, but there'd nonetheless have been Super-rookies in the past.

Just like the Marines have hierarchy, so it is with everything. Admiral or Fleet Admirals is not a new thing, so why would the concept of Pirates and Emperors be? Only thing Roger did was be the first to be Pirate King, nothing else has changed.

Whitebeard was in a different league on his own as well. All the Emperors were 2nd to him, Crocodile even tells us this.

Spoiler

Roger was the only one to ever best Whitebeard, and those 2 were similar in strength.

Spoiler

Like Crocodile said, Whitebeard was in a league of his own, thus, the need for Whitebeard to be taken out the picture. Crocodile said everyone was second to him which is why Buggy said he was closest to the throne and Garp called him King of the sea. Blackbeard wasn't the only 1 who need Whitebeard out the picture, but so did Kaido and Big Mom who had aim to be Pirate King. That's why Kaido took this "once in a life time opportunity" to take on Whitebeard because he was going to face the entirety of the Marines + Shichibulai (i.e., Kaido was going to contribute and ally with the WG and Shichibukai in taking out Whitebeard). As long as Whitebeard was in the way, no one stood a chance or becoming Pirate King.

It's only because Whitebeard is dead that there can now be people contending for One Piece or to rule the sea as Joker tells us.

We're in fact told Kaido and Big Mom fought against Whitebeard for territory and since Whitebeard retained his territory till the last moment, implies he won. In fact, Big Mom also stated that if she had the aid of the giants via Lola's wedding, she could have been Pirate King, so it means she was never successful in her endeavours.

Whitebeard was in a complete league of his own; the other Emperors are relatively equally as powerful as the other. Admirals are just as strong as Emperors, but using Whitebeard as the standard for other Emperors is a no because he couldn't be touched.

Bare in mind he had the Gura Gura no Mi, so it was absolutely necessary to face him with the entirety of their force. He alone could destroy and Island or 2. Ability plays a role in why he was so fearsome. He's not someone you can just face head on.

There's no proof Big Mom is superior to any Admiral, it's only Whitebeard that this can be said for; based on what Mother Carmel said, she'd be strong enough to be Fleet Admiral or Admiral which puts them at relatively equal strength.

 

[Zehahaha]

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 2, 2017 ---

It also appears that this chapter makes a point regarding how Emperors compare to Admirals. Linlin was said to have enough strength to progress into an Admiral or Fleet Admiral meaning Emperors are just as powerful as Admirals with the exception of their lacking King's Haki.

I have no doubt every Yonko would beat the crap out of the admirals in 1vs1... Make no mistake, the Yonko are the real top dogs in 1vs1

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I have no doubt every Yonko would beat the crap out of the admirals in 1vs1... Make no mistake, the Yonko are the real top dogs in 1vs1

I doubt it. We only had that idea because we assumed Whitebeard was representative of each Yonko, but that wasn't the truth. Whitebeard was above everyone (fellow Emperors and Admirals) and more so, his ability played a huge role in why he was so formidable. It was the ability to destroy the world, much less people.

Very unlikely that the Emperors can just easily defeat Admirals, it will be a hell of a fight. Only thing the Emperors really have is the fact that they have Kings Hak, besides that, I don't see anything separating them in terms of strength.

There's no proof the Admirals are not at least equal to the Emperors. As far as I see, Mother Carmel stating that Linlin has potential to be Admiral places her along Admirals; Emperors and Admirals are the strongest individuals in One Piece which are the 2 highest ranks in terms of power in the series.

 

[leiatte]

There's no proof Big Mom is superior to any Admiral, it's only Whitebeard that this can be said for; based on what Mother Carmel said, she'd be strong enough to be Fleet Admiral or Admiral which puts them at relatively equal strength.

Well, see you're going off of what Mother Caramel said when Linlin was 5, that was her potential. It was also based on the fact that she'd join the marines, meaning she'd have to climb the ranks. I doubt she can just predict the future but that's how confident in her strength she was

Big Mom is a yonkou, & has seemingly reached her full potential. She could very well be stronger than an admiral & I believe she is, now 2-3 admirals is a different story as admirals are not to be underestimated. Also, look who is in her crew: Cracker & Katakuri don't seem like push overs at all

Whitebeard is crazy strong, but he was also sick. That had to bring him somewhat closer to the level of the other Yonkou, if he was full strength I don't think he would even get challenges from his fellow Yonkou.

P.S. I think something that helps show the difference in power between an Admiral and a Yonkou was Doflamingo. He was a bit cautious around Ao Kiji who is admiral level, he was still Doflamingo though but when Law & Luffy threatened to mess up his business with Kaido he started sweating pretty noticeably.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Well, see you're going off of what Mother Caramel said when Linlin was 5, that was her potential. It was also based on the fact that she'd join the marines, meaning she'd have to climb the ranks. I doubt she can just predict the future but that's how confident in her strength she was

Big Mom is a yonkou, & has seemingly reached her full potential. She could very well be stronger than an admiral & I believe she is, now 2-3 admirals is a different story as admirals are not to be underestimated. Also, look who is in her crew: Cracker & Katakuri don't seem like push overs at all

Whitebeard is crazy strong, but he was also sick. That had to bring him somewhat closer to the level of the other Yonkou, if he was full strength I don't think he would even get challenges from his fellow Yonkou.

P.S. I think something that helps show the difference in power between an Admiral and a Yonkou was Doflamingo. He was a bit cautious around Ao Kiji who is admiral level, he was still Doflamingo though but when Law & Luffy threatened to mess up his business with Kaido he started sweating pretty noticeably.

It's not just off mother Carmel, it's also the fact that Emperors and Admrials are the 2 strongest forces in the world individually. There's nothing that suggests either as superior to the other besides the fact Emperors possess King's Haki.

Well, Kaido is an unforgiving individual while Admirals are somewhat tame. Especially with the fact he has position as a Warlord, he can take liberties. Aokiji could have killed him there and then if he wanted to and he didn't. He froze him just enough to subdue him, but not enough to freeze him to the point that it reached his heart as Buffalo stated.

Spoiler

Joker's reaction is much more contextual as opposed to Emperors being out-rightly superior to the Admirals. Emperors are far more reckless and capricious while the WG are restricted and somewhat bound by rules.

I'm not even arguing that the Admirals are superior, but I could easily just assume that stance since Emperors are being taken out first before the Marines, perhaps, the Admirals are indeed stronger. That however is unlikely. There's nothing that implies that the Admirals are weaker than Emperors.

It was only Whitebeard who was outright superior to the Admirals, and that wasn't just against Admirals, but against Emperors too. Whitebeard was just in a league of his own entirely.

There is no evidence at all that indicates the Emperors to be superior.

How do you know Linlin who was predicted to have potential to be an Admiral or Fleet is suddenly superior to the Admirals? What standard are you measuring by or what statement?

Just because Katakuri and Cracker don't look like pushovers still doesn't mean anything. They're strong, Marines also have strong fighters too.

Even when Luffy stated he was going to be Pirate King, he said he doesn't care, he has to defeat both Emperors and Admirals; it appears they're revered just as equally as the other.

 

[leiatte]

It's not just off mother Carmel, it's also the fact that Emperors and Admrials are the 2 strongest forces in the world individually. There's nothing that suggests either as superior to the other besides the fact Emperors possess King's Haki.

Well, Kaido is an unforgiving individual while Admirals are somewhat tame. Especially with the fact he has position as a Warlord, he can take liberties. Aokiji could have killed him there and then if he wanted to and he didn't. He froze him just enough to subdue him, but not enough to freeze him to the point that it reached his heart as Buffalo stated.

Spoiler

Joker's reaction is much more contextual as opposed to Emperors being out-rightly superior to the Admirals. Emperors are far more reckless and capricious while the WG are restricted and somewhat bound by rules.

I'm not even arguing that the Admirals are superior, but I could easily just assume that stance since Emperors are being taken out first before the Marines, perhaps, the Admirals are indeed stronger. That however is unlikely. There's nothing that implies that the Admirals are weaker than Emperors.

It was only Whitebeard who was outright superior to the Admirals, and that wasn't just against Admirals, but against Emperors too. Whitebeard was just in a league of his own entirely.

There is no evidence at all that indicates the Emperors to be superior.

How do you know Linlin who was predicted to have potential to be an Admiral or Fleet is suddenly superior to the Admirals? What standard are you measuring by or what statement?

Just because Katakuri and Cracker don't look like pushovers still doesn't mean anything. They're strong, Marines also have strong fighters too.

Even when Luffy stated he was going to be Pirate King, he said he doesn't care, he has to defeat both Emperors and Admirals; it appears they're revered just as equally as the other.

The thing is that if the Strawhats went after the Admirals 1st, they'd be essentially waging war on the governing power. While I might say something like the individual power of a Yonkou seems stronger than that of an Admiral, organizational power I will give to the Marines. They're expansive and powerful

Also, Ao Kiji isn't an admiral anymore. He could've defeated Doflamingo & he probably wouldn't have to worry about reporting to a higher power, though I don't think the marines would appreciate it.

The balance of the Marines & Yonkou is a delicate one, If an Admiral is on par with a Yonkou I don't see why they would need Shichibukai as extra muscle. Also during the Marineford War, I remember the marines saying that it was good that the Yonkou didn't get along because they probably wouldn't be able to handle 2 Yonkou's teaming up.

The 3 Admirals don't mind teaming up to defeat a really strong opponent. Now if they kept Ao Kiji & added Fujitora & Green Bull. I think they might shift the balance in their favor against the Yonkou.

Kaido is an unforgiving individual, so that may be why it got Doflamingo to sweat. You're right there, I didn't consider that.

Also, How I know that Linlin who was predicted to have Admiral or Fleet Admiral potential is suddenly superior is the fact that predictions aren't always accurate. Alot of people underperform or just reach expectations, while a few completely shatter those. I feel like Big Mom is one of the ones who did that, due to her status, her stability in power. Why didn't the Marine's take her out earlier in life if they knew she was growing to be a threat, she has like 34 kids

I just feel like if the Admirals were individually as powerful as a Yonkou the balance should be completely in there favor, they could figure out a plan & go 2 on 1 vs a Yonkou & overwhelm them completely. Unless they're just trying to avoid causing chaos in that part of the world

The evidence that a Yonkou > Admiral isn't definitive, but there have been many things that help people come to that conclusion.

I do think the Admiral's and the Yonkou are revered equally, as groups. For good reason too, I see it as them each representing the organization they are in.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Also, Ao Kiji isn't an admiral anymore. He could've defeated Doflamingo & he probably wouldn't have to worry about reporting to a higher power, though I don't think the marines would appreciate it.

He still wanted the Marines to take care of it as opposed to him doing it himself. It implies he still doesn't just do things unilaterally, but wanted it to be dealt with effectively. Doesn't really matter if he is no longer an Admiral.

The balance of the Marines & Yonkou is a delicate one, If an Admiral is on par with a Yonkou I don't see why they would need Shichibukai as extra muscle. Also during the Marineford War, I remember the marines saying that it was good that the Yonkou didn't get along because they probably wouldn't be able to handle 2 Yonkou's teaming up.

We're in fact told why they need the Shichibukai. The entire purpose of the Shichibukai is to deter people from becoming Pirates, they're not necessary and that's why many of the marines would rather do away with the system, especially Fujitora.

Spoiler

The reason they need to deter Pirates is because since Roger died, a lot more people have become Pirates, so they need deterrents. This is why this is called the Great Age of Pirates.

Spoiler

So, it really has nothing to do with extra muscles. All they're going for is an image which is why Buggy is now a Shichibukai, he just represents an image despite the fact he's weak. That's why Moriah was defeated by Joker because his image was tarnished, as a result, his role as a Shichibukai no longer had value.

The only reason the entirety of the Marines assembled together was for 1 fact, Whitebeard has the Gura Gura no Mi capable of destroying the world. Hell, they even had a special metal wall just in place to dissipate the power of the Gura Gura no Mi, but nonetheless, the power was still overwhelming.

The 3 Admirals don't mind teaming up to defeat a really strong opponent. Now if they kept Ao Kiji & added Fujitora & Green Bull. I think they might shift the balance in their favor against the Yonkou.

It's not really anything to do with teaming up, it's to do with the fact Whitebeard has a power that's so great, plus. they were at their base. Of course they'd assemble the entirety of their force. More so when they wanted to protect it from collateral damage.

You also cannot compare any Emperor to Whitebeard, like said before, he was in a class of his own. Find a panel stating Big Mom to be the king of the sea like Whitebeard? You won't find one. Or Big Mom being closest to being Pirate King? You won't find one. Or Big Mom being so strong that every other Pirate was inferior to them? You won't find none, it's only regarding Whitebeard and Roger this is stated for.

Spoiler

End of the day, regardless of what you feel, you have no facts to support your argument. There's no proof that Admirals are inferior or superior to the Emperors, all we know is that they're portrayed as the elites, so to claim one superior over the other is nonfactual.

Finally, I believe you've misconstrued this balance regarding the Marines, Yonko and Shichibukai. It's more political. When a Shichibukai is defeated, it gives the WG a bad image, therefore, more people will become Pirates and it will strengthen Piracy, thus, balance is broken. This is why the WG will always recruit new Pirates to take the spot of fallen Shichibukai to give the image of power they so need. If the WG look weak, more people become Pirates, therefore balance is broken. If the Emperors are defeated, what happens? Balance is broken, war breaks out because of a power vacuum is created and someone is going to look to take it a la Whitebeard's death which even Brownbeard attempted to do in Whitebeard's death.

Spoiler

There is no definitive proof, it's more preference. It's like looking at Jack and stating he's superior to Marco or Katakuri, there's no evidence, it's just preference. If Big Mom wasn't an Emperor, she'd more or less be an Admiral or Fleet Admiral, so there really is no proof to state that Admirals are inferior to Emperors.

What you're more or less implying here is that if someone enters the highest rank of Piracy being an Emperor, then they're by default superior to someone who is highest ranked within the WG? When the only difference between both is the organisation they're in? How does organisation prove that one is superior to the other? All it does is indicate what faction the individual is in.

 

[Monkey.D.Bowes]

Pirates have always existed, it's not something Roger invented. It would be like saying that there weren't ambitious Pirates until Roger appeared. Pirates are people who rob, steal, kill and do whatever they can to increase their wealth and power, so I think it's only logical to assume that Emperors even existed during Roger's era.

Whitebeard was in a complete league of his own; the other Emperors are relatively equally as powerful as the other. Admirals are just as strong as Emperors, but using Whitebeard as the standard for other Emperors is a no because he couldn't be touched.

There's no proof Big Mom is superior to any Admiral, it's only Whitebeard that this can be said for; based on what Mother Carmel said, she'd be strong enough to be Fleet Admiral or Admiral which puts them at relatively equal strength.

There's no proof the Admirals are not at least equal to the Emperors. As far as I see, Mother Carmel stating that Linlin has potential to be Admiral places her along Admirals; Emperors and Admirals are the strongest individuals in One Piece which are the 2 highest ranks in terms of power in the series.

I did not say the pirates didn't exist. I just said that perhaps they existed entities as powerful as the actual yonkos, but as the title of Pirate King didn't exist, it's a title gained by the first Pirate King Roger, the Yonkos could be a title gained by the fact that 4 powerful pirates were sharing the new world and are above everyone else.

And WB was actually above others Yonkos, but he was old and sick. We weren't showed the full potential of an Emperor.

Regarding the proofs you're talking about, there is one. Robin said and implied that BM was their most powerful enemy so far. Implying Crocodile, Ener, Lucci, Moria, KIZARU at shabadoy, Kuma, AOKIJI before Water 7 and we could extent this to Akainu at Marineford even the SH crew weren't there.

If BM is their most powerful enemy so far, it's simply cuz it's the first Yonko luffy has to clash.

We have seen the WB fleet's commander fighting almost equally with the Admirals...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I did not say the pirates didn't exist. I just said that perhaps they existed entities as powerful as the actual yonkos, but as the title of Pirate King didn't exist, it's a title gained by the first Pirate King Roger, the Yonkos could be a title gained by the fact that 4 powerful pirates were sharing the new world and are above everyone else.

The title did exist.

The only thing that didn't exist was a person to actually achieve the feat of earning the title.

Also, if you read chapter 0, it says Roger achieved what others had called impossible. "Others"can't call something impossible without knowing what the feat is. So, the title did exist because the task was a known one.

Spoiler

Conquering the Grand-Line is the same thing as becoming Pirate King, so, people had tried before Roger, and it was deemed impossible. It's nothing new.

If the idea of conquering the Grand Line has always existed, then the term Pirate King has always existed since Pirate King is merely a title that symbolises an achievement. All that happened is Roger was the first.

If you also read some of the SBS, Oda stated that Whitebead, Shiki and Roger were the great Pirates of that age meaning they were more or less like Emperors (bar Roger). Like I said before, you can't own the hugest fleet and be one of the great Pirates without owning territory.

Spoiler

Powerful Pirates and ownership of territory is nothing new.

The Yonko title is also trivial, it just means 4 Emperors. There could just have been less than 4 Emperors at the time.

And WB was actually above others Yonkos, but he was old and sick. We weren't showed the full potential of an Emperor.

That's not relevant, he was still the strongest regardless of his health. SBS, Oda tells us Whitebeard actually went there to die.

Spoiler

Which is why when Whitebeard got stabbed, Marco made reference to his removing of life-support system too early and determined it reason for his sluggish fighting. Even whilst sluggish, he was still regarded the strongest.

Spoiler

We were also shown the full potential, why wouldn't they fight to their full potential when their comrade is about to die? makes no sense. Were they just half-baking it it because they didn't care about Ace? Don't think so.

We have seen the WB fleet's commander fighting almost equally with the Admirals...

They didn't. It took Marco and the entirety of the Whitebeard fleet to do what Whitebeard alone did against Akainu. They couldn't even hurt Akainu with their Armament Haki. Kizaru was toying with Marco and Jozu was decimated and made a foot-stool for Joker.

If BM is their most powerful enemy so far, it's simply cuz it's the first Yonko luffy has to clash.

That much is obvious, not aware of that being disputed. Point still remains that Gear 4th has obliterated every enemy so far and none have yet to exchange blows with it. The Emperors will clearly be the ones to stand up to Gear 4th like Lucci was the first to do against Gear 2nd, but nonetheless lose.

 

[Monkey.D.Bowes]

The title did exist.

The only thing that didn't exist was a person to actually achieve the feat of earning the title.

Then where it is stated? Please.

Also, if you read chapter 0, it says Roger achieved what others had called impossible. "Others"can't call something impossible without knowing what the feat is. So, the title did exist because the task was a known one.

Spoiler

Conquering the Grand-Line is the same thing as becoming Pirate King, so, people had tried before Roger, and it was deemed impossible. It's nothing new.

What it is called impossible were to conquer Grand Line and it was by reaching Raftel that he did.

If the idea of conquering the Grand Line has always existed, then the term Pirate King has always existed since Pirate King is merely a title that symbolises an achievement. All that happened is Roger was the first.

So if the title didn't exist, then no one can compare Linlin to a Yonko, even Carmel. You can't conclude that Admiral are as much powerful as Yonko on something like that.

We were also shown the full potential, why wouldn't they fight to their full potential when their comrade is about to die? makes no sense. Were they just half-baking it it because they didn't care about Ace? Don't think so.

Wb didn't use his full potential cuz he could'nt. He was sick. You will argue with me that WB was at his most powerful state? He has took a lot of strike from Akainu because of that.

They didn't. It took Marco and the entirety of the Whitebeard fleet to do what Whitebeard alone did against Akainu. They couldn't even hurt Akainu with their Armament Haki. Kizaru was toying with Marco and Jozu was decimated and made a foot-stool for Joker.

Yes, I agree that admiral are above fleet's commander, but still Yonko are clearly above everything else, meaning admirals too.

That much is obvious, not aware of that being disputed.

What is disputed is the idea that Admirals are equal to Yonko in terms of Strength. If it is obvious that BM is their most powerful enemys so far, it means you agree with me knowing Kizaru being the principal antagonist of Shabaody. Then BM>Kizaru= Yonko>Admirals.

To answer different part of your text, I have written my comments in your quote.
Tbh, even with your arguments, I don't understand how you came to conclude that Admirals are on equal force with Yonkos based on Carmel saying to CP0 that she had the potentiel to be in the high ranks of the marine.
Even if Yonkos titles did exist, she's selling bm to the governememt so she won't argue with pirates titles but marines titles.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

To answer different part of your text, I have written my comments in your quote.
Tbh, even with your arguments, I don't understand how you came to conclude that Admirals are on equal force with Yonkos based on Carmel saying to CP0 that she had the potentiel to be in the high ranks of the marine.
Even if Yonkos titles did exist, she's selling bm to the governememt so she won't argue with pirates titles but marines titles.

Titles are irrelevant, and it's not entirely based off Mother Carmel.

Even without what she said, there's no evidence to state Admirals to be inferior to Emperors.

They're just the elite warriors within their own organisations.

You're trying to state that someone who is an elite in whatever respect is by default superior if they're Emperor as opposed to an Admiral in the WG.

How does being a Marine or rank in the WG determine an Admiral inferior to an Emperor?

Luffy also trained to be able to fight both Emperors and Admirals because those are the strongest ranks in both organisations.

And whether she's talking about Marine titles is irrelevant, of course she'd state Admirals since that's the highest title given to the strongest in the WG just like Emperors are the strongest in the world of Pirates. That's the point.

 

[leiatte]

Titles are irrelevant, and it's not entirely based off Mother Carmel.

Even without what she said, there's no evidence to state Admirals to be inferior to Emperors.

They're just the elite warriors within their own organisations.

You're trying to state that someone who is an elite in whatever respect is by default superior if they're Emperor as opposed to an Admiral in the WG.

How does being a Marine or rank in the WG determine an Admiral inferior to an Emperor?

Luffy also trained to be able to fight both Emperors and Admirals because those are the strongest ranks in both organisations.

And whether she's talking about Marine titles is irrelevant, of course she'd state Admirals since that's the highest title given to the strongest in the WG just like Emperors are the strongest in the world of Pirates. That's the point.

There is also no evidence that Admirals are on the same level as Yonkou either though. That shichibukai image thing you stated makes sense though

See the whole thing with Mother Caramel stating Linlin has the potential to be an Admiral or Fleet Admiral was based on when she was 5 years old, meaning it's only so accurate. Yes, those are the highest ranks in the Marines, but that doesn't mean Admiral=Yonkou in strength. It could also mean that it's just extremely hard to rise above those ranks if possible at all.

There are reasons that people assume the Yonkou are stronger though. If the Admirals are as strong as the Yonkou, the power balance would be completely in their favor. They'd have 3-4 Yonkou equivalents in strength, along with Garp. Imagine if they attacked a Yonkou & kept their plans underwrap, bring a couple vice admirals & even Bartholomew Kuma and it would probably be an overwhelming Victory. Not that it would be easy to get in their territory, but the Yonkou are all older (except Blackbeard) so they've had time to come up with something.

The government also fears Yonkou teaming up, as not only would that put them in an incredibly tough spot it would also shake the power balance. I look at the Marines & I see a unified power, I look at the Yonkou & I see a bunch of powerful organizations that can't agree on anything. They also fear the Yonkou fighting each other which could cause chaos, but I guess it reflects real world politics in that way. If they're as powerful as the Yonkou, I don't know what their plan or goal is.

Also, they call Kaido the Strongest Creature (whatever that means).

Shanks arrived at Marineford & ended the war, granted Whitebeard & Ace were dead and I doubt the Marines wanted to get into a fight with another Yonkou,
They did not want to fight him, it's the smart thing to do in all honesty. Before that Akainu was still ready to go (all the Admirals wanted to kill Luffy) & if he was Fleet Admiral at the time I wonder what he'd have done, as Sengoku agreed to end it.

Spoiler: Akainu & Blackbeard

Only Shanks presence calmed Blackbeard, he was so encouraged by his new found power that he exclaimed this while the war was still going on. Even if he's been known to be a bit rash, Blackbeards strength at that point was hard to deny.

Spoiler: Shanks "Bring it On"

After all that someone got blackbeard to back off, I don't think he could handle an admiral at that point ofcourse (especially since he's kinda clumsy), his 2 fruits could've been a force to be reckoned with though.

Spoiler: War Ends

The world government obviously doesn't fear the Red Hair Pirates but they respect them as a strength & decided to respect their wishes.

The war is not as simple as saying that 3 Admirals>>>1 Yonkou ofcourse, but the amount of power players the world government still had is interesting. Ofcourse Whitebeard's commanders were still around, that begs the case of how close a Yonkou & his commanders are in terms of strength though.

I guess it's a bit more complex than Yonkou > Admiral, especially since they also deal with Revolutionary's but I'm not really getting their purpose if they're that powerful. I could only assume that they don't want the Yonkou out of power, if they are indeed that powerful.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

There is also no evidence that Admirals are on the same level as Yonkou either though. That shichibukai image thing you stated makes sense though

There is no evidence Emperors are on the level of the Admirals. If I asked for proof, the best you can tell me is you feel that way, there's no concrete evidence to make that statement a fact.

See the whole thing with Mother Caramel stating Linlin has the potential to be an Admiral or Fleet Admiral was based on when she was 5 years old, meaning it's only so accurate. Yes, those are the highest ranks in the Marines, but that doesn't mean Admiral=Yonkou in strength. It could also mean that it's just extremely hard to rise above those ranks if possible at all.

Yes, it's just stating she has the potential to be the strongest. The fact she's an Emperor proves that she could either have been an Admiral or Emperor depending on which faction she decided to fight for.

If Admirals and Emperors aren't relatively of equal strength, then why is Luffy's end-game and requirement to be Pirate King about being able to defeat either?

Spoiler

Why is Chinjao telling us being Pirate King requires being able to defeat both Emperors and Admirals to be Pirate King if they're not of relative formability?

Spoiler

There are reasons that people assume the Yonkou are stronger though. If the Admirals are as strong as the Yonkou, the power balance would be completely in their favor. They'd have 3-4 Yonkou equivalents in strength, along with Garp. Imagine if they attacked a Yonkou & kept their plans underwrap, bring a couple vice admirals & even Bartholomew Kuma and it would probably be an overwhelming Victory. Not that it would be easy to get in their territory, but the Yonkou are all older (except Blackbeard) so they've had time to come up with something.

Not really, it's far more complex than that. Even if they are strong enough, they can't just waltz into territory. They all have responsibilities. They can't just go into the New World which is ruled by Pirates and do as they please. They'd leave themselves vulnerable. Emperors have just as much intelligence as the Marines. Age is also irrelevant, they're at the peak of their strength. Literally no one can just go into Big Mom's territory without being spotted.

The government also fears Yonkou teaming up, as not only would that put them in an incredibly tough spot it would also shake the power balance. I look at the Marines & I see a unified power, I look at the Yonkou & I see a bunch of powerful organizations that can't agree on anything. They also fear the Yonkou fighting each other which could cause chaos, but I guess it reflects real world politics in that way. If they're as powerful as the Yonkou, I don't know what their plan or goal is.

Of course they fear the Emperors fighting each other because it only makes the balance a lot more unstable. Whitebeard's death alone brought a lot of carnage into the sea due to the power vacuum left. The Admirals too do not fight together, they fight independently. It's no different to the Emperors not fighting together.

Also, they call Kaido the Strongest Creature (whatever that means).

And he's been captured 18 times and been defeated 7 times as a Pirate. I'm not sure what relevance that has.

Shanks arrived at Marineford & ended the war, granted Whitebeard & Ace were dead and I doubt the Marines wanted to get into a fight with another Yonkou,
They did not want to fight him, it's the smart thing to do in all honesty. Before that Akainu was still ready to go (all the Admirals wanted to kill Luffy) & if he was Fleet Admiral at the time I wonder what he'd have done, as Sengoku agreed to end it.

You're taking it out of context. A battle between the Marines and the Whitebeard Pirates + Blackbeard was already undergoing. Why would they want the addition of another Emperor? It's not because they're afraid of Shanks, but because it's common sense.

Sengoku was just being reasonable. They'd achieved their goals already and a lot of destruction had been birthed. There was no reason to continue fighting since their objective had already been met. Akainu also still wanted to fight, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. There just wasn't any more need to shed blood. It's nothing at all to do with fearing Shanks.

Only Shanks presence calmed Blackbeard, he was so encouraged by his new found power that he exclaimed this while the war was still going on. Even if he's been known to be a bit rash, Blackbeards strength at that point was hard to deny.

Out of context. Blackbeard became the focus of:

1. Marines
2. Whitebeard remnants
3. Red Hair Pirates

Why would he then go on to take on Shanks with his fleet? It'd literally be a 3 on 1 battle. He just formed a crew of what? 7-8 individuals he just barely met? Why would he fight so many people at once with such a disadvantage? That's a tactical retreat. It's not so much Shanks, it's more like circumstance.

Why wouldn't Blackbeard pay attention to Shanks too since they do have a history together?

The war is not as simple as saying that 3 Admirals>>>1 Yonkou ofcourse, but the amount of power players the world government still had is interesting. Of course Whitebeard's commanders were still around, that begs the case of how close a Yonkou & his commanders are in terms of strength though.

Their commanders are irrelevant when. as soon as Whitebeard died, Whitebeard Pirates became washed up and old news. Even Brownbeard decided to attempt to take over the territory simply because Whitebeard was no more. The real power within the Emperor crew is the captain itself. A crew that had been at the very top for 25 years is no longer. Just a year after Whitebeard died, the entire crew fell into ruination and almost became totally irrelevant.

The war is not as simple as saying that 3 Admirals>>>1 Yonkou ofcourse, but the amount of power players the world government still had is interesting. Of course Whitebeard's commanders were still around, that begs the case of how close a Yonkou & his commanders are in terms of strength though.

I guess it's a bit more complex than Yonkou > Admiral, especially since they also deal with Revolutionary's but I'm not really getting their purpose if they're that powerful. I could only assume that they don't want the Yonkou out of power, if they are indeed that powerful.

They just want to maintain balance. Even after Whitebeard died, they waited for Blackbeard and the New World to sort itself out. They didn't just head into the New World and try to cause a storm. Emperors wouldn't attack the World Government without having planned and the vice-versa.

Even if they want to take out the Emperors which they do, it's not straight forward, it's a game of chess. World Powers do not just go after each other just because they have nuclear capacities. They maintain balance, or at least, try to. Just going into a war is dangerous. It requires a lot of planning.

Nonetheless, like stated before, there's nothing that indicates Admirals or Emperors superior to the other. Oda has portrayed each as the strongest in their respective organisations. Why would being in 1 organisation deem one superior to another organisation's elite?

 

[warriorofvirtue]

The thing is that if the Strawhats went after the Admirals 1st, they'd be essentially waging war on the governing power. While I might say something like the individual power of a Yonkou seems stronger than that of an Admiral, organizational power I will give to the Marines. They're expansive and powerful

Also, Ao Kiji isn't an admiral anymore. He could've defeated Doflamingo & he probably wouldn't have to worry about reporting to a higher power, though I don't think the marines would appreciate it.

The balance of the Marines & Yonkou is a delicate one, If an Admiral is on par with a Yonkou I don't see why they would need Shichibukai as extra muscle. Also during the Marineford War, I remember the marines saying that it was good that the Yonkou didn't get along because they probably wouldn't be able to handle 2 Yonkou's teaming up.

The 3 Admirals don't mind teaming up to defeat a really strong opponent. Now if they kept Ao Kiji & added Fujitora & Green Bull. I think they might shift the balance in their favor against the Yonkou.

Kaido is an unforgiving individual, so that may be why it got Doflamingo to sweat. You're right there, I didn't consider that.

Also, How I know that Linlin who was predicted to have Admiral or Fleet Admiral potential is suddenly superior is the fact that predictions aren't always accurate. Alot of people underperform or just reach expectations, while a few completely shatter those. I feel like Big Mom is one of the ones who did that, due to her status, her stability in power. Why didn't the Marine's take her out earlier in life if they knew she was growing to be a threat, she has like 34 kids

I just feel like if the Admirals were individually as powerful as a Yonkou the balance should be completely in there favor, they could figure out a plan & go 2 on 1 vs a Yonkou & overwhelm them completely. Unless they're just trying to avoid causing chaos in that part of the world

The evidence that a Yonkou > Admiral isn't definitive, but there have been many things that help people come to that conclusion.

I do think the Admiral's and the Yonkou are revered equally, as groups. For good reason too, I see it as them each representing the organization they are in.

well they use the shichibukai so they don't have to risk the admirals.The marines having the admirals is enough to cause fear and make them a threat, they don't have to use them all the time. think of it along the lines of enel(if he was an admiral) and luffy. if they sent enel to deal with luffy they would have lost and admiral because luffy has a certain df that nullifies his. if they sent kuma they would have won and still had enel to deal with bigger threats.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

Even if he were to punch her she would not feel anything. They need something to trouble her again.

You might be downplaying the brute force of G4, look how far Doffy got punched?? Even he was confused as to how he got there.
People still underrate G4, and it mad because, G3 was strong enough to damage big structures, Doffy tanked this like nothing, Now G4 did not just knock down Doffy, it knocked him from the palace to the middle of the town, even if this was just about at least a mile or half a mile, that's some deadly raw brute strength. You'd be a slacker to underestimate G4
Just for reference please watch this. (watching this again made me realize Doffy is stronger than cracker. feel free to @ me on this )

 

[kkck]

It did succeed as DD was knocked out following 5 attacks, and Cracker with one hit... Damage wise, Gear 4 is insane, although I do agree Gear 4 alone will not harm BM that much

Yes I expect her Haki to be above Cracker as well, but it may not be the case... But yea, Luffy will have to get some powerup of some sort

Luffy fought doflamingo for over an hour IIRC. I doubt it was only five attacks. Cracker was blown away with one hit but it took all of nami's help and a lot of time to land that hit. Gear 4 is powerful but it is not quite at a point where it alone can help luffy defeat enemies like doflamingo or cracker. After all, it took two rounds of it to defeat doflamingo, between which luffy was protected by a literal army. Luffy is powerful but he is still not THAT powerful as far as the big players of the world are concerned.

 

[kkck]

Now, I just thought of something. Luffy has in the past used combined gear 2 and 3 to fight. And it allowed him to fight at a higher level than either form would allow individually. It was reckless and caused him harm but it was effective. I am thinking that if this time around luffy uses gears 2, 3 and 4 together then he would perhaps be able to actually hold off the people there. And it would make him an actual giant while he fights. I am sure we will see the combination eventually, the issue is when. Perhaps, given what the form would imply, it would last a moment but it would be a moment where he could punch back at big mom.

 

[Zehahaha]

Luffy fought doflamingo for over an hour IIRC. I doubt it was only five attacks. Cracker was blown away with one hit but it took all of nami's help and a lot of time to land that hit. Gear 4 is powerful but it is not quite at a point where it alone can help luffy defeat enemies like doflamingo or cracker. After all, it took two rounds of it to defeat doflamingo, between which luffy was protected by a literal army. Luffy is powerful but he is still not THAT powerful as far as the big players of the world are concerned.

Because DD was running away and constantly kept using decoys (and let's face it, biscuits being that hard is absolute horseshit)
I was talking about Gear 4's damage, not the fights themselves... But against DD, had it not been for his very convenient fruit, the fight would be over without Luffy needing protecting (same could be said for Cracker), I have no doubt Luffy would wipe the floor with Smoothie quite faster than he did with Cracker because her DF is less annoying

We need to always take into account the DF dynamics in OP, we can argue that Magellan in terms of raw strength isn't that great, but his DF makes him almost lethal against anyone

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2017 ---

Now, I just thought of something. Luffy has in the past used combined gear 2 and 3 to fight. And it allowed him to fight at a higher level than either form would allow individually. It was reckless and caused him harm but it was effective. I am thinking that if this time around luffy uses gears 2, 3 and 4 together then he would perhaps be able to actually hold off the people there. And it would make him an actual giant while he fights. I am sure we will see the combination eventually, the issue is when. Perhaps, given what the form would imply, it would last a moment but it would be a moment where he could punch back at big mom.

I think infusing his bones and musles with air would make him too bouncy ? But I imagine it would give him a tremendous power boost

But in a sense, Gear 4 is a combination of Gear 3 and Gear 2, not only his speed increases but his power as well

 

[kkck]

Because DD was running away and constantly kept using decoys (and let's face it, biscuits being that hard is absolute horseshit)
I was talking about Gear 4's damage, not the fights themselves... But against DD, had it not been for his very convenient fruit, the fight would be over without Luffy needing protecting (same could be said for Cracker), I have no doubt Luffy would wipe the floor with Smoothie quite faster than he did with Cracker because her DF is less annoying

We need to always take into account the DF dynamics in OP, we can argue that Magellan in terms of raw strength isn't that great, but his DF makes him almost lethal against anyone

I am not sure doflamingo ran off nearly as much as you suggested. And from what I can tell he didn't use that many distractions. Doflamingo even had trouble keeping up with luffy's speed. In any case, for the duration of gear 4 doflamingo was basically a punching bag for luffy. And even with the substantial damage doflamingo had taken before (his organs were barely stitched together by his threads) luffy was not able to finish him off. And luffy ran out of juice before he could win the fight. Against cracker the issue was that luffy could not even break past the guys haki even with gear 4. As for fighting smoothie or katakuri, the guys are above cracker. If luffy could not win against cracker on his own then he definitely can't win against those. Smoothie and katakuri are big moms top liutenants, their position in the world is literally the same as marco/jozu or jack. They are monsters. Luffy can't win against them. At least not with anything we have seen yet.