Let me guess, you read that theory stating the Red-Line would be destroyed, lol. That theory is pretty bad and baseless. Why would the Red Line be destroyed? Claims that the purpose of the Ancient Weapons is to destroy the Red-Line. You obviously don't know the reason why Pluton was hidden was so it wouldn't ever be used, thus the reason Franky destroyed the blue-print.
An example for your lack of imagination. You simply couldn't imagine SHs leaving WCI without beating Big Mom, because, according to you, she would go to FI to destroy it.
That's like saying anyone could guess that a Cake would be what stopped Big Mom in order to escape WCI or, that the main fight in this arc wouldn't be against the main-antagonist.
Had that not been the case, Luffy would have had to defeat Big Mom, and whatever Luffy has to do to succeed, Oda will have him do.
That's something you obviously do not grasp as of yet. Just because it was wrong doesn't make it unreasonable. Nonetheless, he intends to return and settle things. This arc was postponing that.
Fishman Island is in imminent danger as long as she's alive stated here, and more so given the things Jimbei and crew have done; this is still a fact.
In fact, as I said, I said how can Jimbei leave to Wano without a resolution as to Big Mom heading over to Fishman Island, and what happened?
Jimbei has not only remained to save the crew, but will likely try to aid Fishman Island too.
Things have actually stayed somewhat consistent within my prediction. Good job on missing that part of it.
It's only common sense to make predictions that facilitate the conclusion.
An example is how you thought the Ship could be destroyed (lack of imagination on your part as you'd phrase it, lol); the ship can't be destroyed, therefore predictions regarding its survival in chapter 900 should be consistent with this conclusion. As I told you, no need for imagination or fan-fiction where facts are present. It was clearly something you didn't understand.
All a prediction need be is reasonable and within the context provided.
You're missing certain logical fundamentals regarding predictions when the conclusion is already set in stone.
When one attempts to deduce or accurately predict story development with a known conclusion:
All predictions must end with the conclusion aimed for and within the context of that story.
Prediction must be realistic and more so in context with the situation.
Unless additional context has been added which may or may not change the story, initial prediction may not be necessary to achieve the supposed conclusion. These changes in context cannot be predicted until they take place which means in order to predict accurately, one must alter their prediction to take this change into account.
When one properly looks at the situation during the Wedding where the conclusion was escaping with Sanji, his Family and Jimbei, the only way that conclusion could be met was Big Mom's defeat as she wouldn't just stand there and let them off especially given what was at stake.
So, yes, Luffy would have had to defeat Big Mom had Oda not changed the situation (adding the Hunger-pang to the situation) which was better solved by different means (obviously being Sanji's Cake). Without the Hunger-pang, saving Sanji and Jimbei heading to Wano would have required her defeat; Oda just changed the circumstances of the situation changing the plot in essence.
What's pretty evident here is you're not considering or trying to acknowledge story dynamics in relation to implications of actions and how it affects the story. It's also pretty telling that you're not acknowledging that the author can insert new information which inherently changes the story dynamics significantly.
The panel with prophecy shows a man with strawhat and a rubble on fire behind him, no more, no less. We know that is Fishman island from Shirleys words not from that panel. Panel is just a visual symbolic representation of the prophecy. She didnt get him out the island and it wasnt destroyed.
All theories must be bad for you since you strictly consider only what manga says. Pluton is not the only Ancient weapon, there are two more and we know nothing about one of them. Why would Red Line need to be destroyed? Cant you imagine that?
Both ways of going to the other side of Grand Line are either not safe or arent done easily, not as easy as just sailing forward. Possibly, might create the All-Blue as well, where all 4 Blue's connect.
I still think that ship can be destroyed if its between the crew members or the ship, we all know who has the stronger plot armor. Anyway, i thought it could but , as i said many times, i didnt think it would.
Regarding your imagination about Luffy vs BM and about FI, I'll quote you few times, will tell more than me paraphrasing.
"Nonetheless, she will go after Fishman Island, that's what you don't seem to comprehend. Only way that won't happen is if she's stopped."
"And you clearly fail to comprehend regardless of Prophecies, things don't happen in a vacuum. This thing called realism is always at play. Unless she's stopped, Fishman Island would be destroyed by her."
So i ask you, is BM stopped? Is FI destroyed because she wasnt stopped?
I said i understand geography. You could be more specific about
The panel with prophecy shows a man with strawhat and a rubble on fire behind him, no more, no less. We know that is Fishman island from Shirleys words not from that panel. Panel is just a visual symbolic representation of the prophecy. She didnt get him out the island and it wasnt destroyed.
And Madame Shirley's prediction have always been accurate by roughly a year.
A pit-stop is irrelevant.
Also, a Log-pose requires staying on an Island before one can advance to the next. Have you forgotten how the SHs were going to have to stay at little garden for years before the Log-pose set?
@Hannibal Psyche It is irrelevant, ppl will still sail to other side even without FI so its not a must.
Which part of those "proofs" is undoubted evidence that Luffy is physically present on FI at the time of destruction?
@Hannibal Psyche It is irrelevant, ppl will still sail to other side even without FI so its not a must.
Which part of those "proofs" is undoubted evidence that Luffy is physically present on FI at the time of destruction?
First of all... People have Log-poses so they have a destination, otherwise, people will end up on sea not knowing where the next Island may be, and die. One doesn't have to be a sailor to know this. It's just common knowledge. The sea is a vast place. You can learn this if you read the SH's journey from the very early beginnings of the story.
Her visions have always been accurate, that's why her visions are taken seriously.
It is undoubted proof because she says she saw Luffy destroying Fishman Island. She wouldn't want him to physically leave if he wasn't destroying it. At this point, you're seemingly in denial.
The proof is the fact that she saw him and what she sees tends to take place in around a year's time.
@Hannibal Psyche It is irrelevant, ppl will still sail to other side even without FI so its not a must.
Which part of those "proofs" is undoubted evidence that Luffy is physically present on FI at the time of destruction?
@Hannibal Psyche I don't question Luffy destroying FI. I say he doesn't have to be physically present to destroy it. She can still see that, destruction of FI by Luffys hands even if he isnt right there.
@M3J FI destruction is inevitable, you tell me. Ride the current without making a pit stop? Wont need to go underwater at all?
Pluton is not the only Ancient weapon, there are two more and we know nothing about one of them. Why would Red Line need to be destroyed? Cant you imagine that?
Both ways of going to the other side of Grand Line are either not safe or arent done easily, not as easy as just sailing forward. Possibly, might create the All-Blue as well, where all 4 Blue's connect.
Nope, the Ancient Weapons aren't supposed to be used for violence which is why Pluton is hidden.
All Blue already exists, so the destruction of the Red Line is not necessary.
Nonetheless, that theory you're so obstinate to believe states that the purpose of One Piece is to destroy the Red Line, lol. Destroying the Red Line won't fix racism, slavery or oligarchies that oppress the weak. Rather naive of a theory to believe.
@Hannibal Psyche I don't question Luffy destroying FI. I say he doesn't have to be physically present to destroy it. She can still see that, destruction of FI by Luffys hands even if he isnt right there
@Hannibal Psyche And you fail to understand that I'm talking about the one which we know nothing about - Uranus.
Why would Luffy return to FI, why would he want to destroy it? Its not a coincidence that mariejois, red line and fishman island are alligned.
Regarding your imagination about Luffy vs BM and about FI, I'll quote you few times, will tell more than me paraphrasing.
"Nonetheless, she will go after Fishman Island, that's what you don't seem to comprehend. Only way that won't happen is if she's stopped."
"And you clearly fail to comprehend regardless of Prophecies, things don't happen in a vacuum. This thing called realism is always at play. Unless she's stopped, Fishman Island would be destroyed by her."
So i ask you, is BM stopped? Is FI destroyed because she wasnt stopped?
And maybe you're not aware that it takes a few days to get from Fishman Island from WCI. In order for her to destroy it:
She needs to actually go there.
It doesn't automatically get destroyed just because she's not yet defeated. It's a 2-3 day journey from Fishman island to WCI (and vice versa obviously).
Fishman island is in danger since she's not been stopped, I don't even think this is a point worth trying to argue, lol.
She knows the Tamtatebako is from Fishman Island.
Jimbei and Luffy have ties to Fishman Island.
Fishman Island have been implicit in her assassination and destruction of her castle form their perspective.
And you think she wouldn't likely go to Fishman Island given the opportunity? Rhetorical question, but I know your answer nonetheless.
If you use you look carefully, we're given pictorial evidence of him being there and Madame Shirley stating so; like I said, you're clearly in abject denial.
Nope, you weren't, lol. Uranus is irrelevant here. Whether we know what it does or not doesn't change the fact that the Ancient Weapons are hidden so they can't be used for violent purposes or to be used. Only Poseidon is to be used to move the people of Fishman Island to the surface which is of course, not violence, but transportation.
There are parallels between Nami's situation in Cocoyashi Village and Fishman Island.
Nami was enslaved and subjugated by Arlong. She was forced to draw charts and maps for Arlong in the Cartography room. The room represented her slavery, her powerlessness and her despair; Luffy, often the first to act silly has great emotional IQ, and for that reason, he destroyed the room in which Nami was forced to work in because of what it represented.
The parallel here, Fishman Island is similar to Nami's rooms. It's a cage, it's repression, it's limitations, it's symbolic of their despair and powerlessness. The kids wish they could go to the surface and they do, but not without risk.
This is what Queen Otohime lived for, in order to have the Fishmen migrate over to the surface and integrate, but they're too scared to do so due to prejudice and slavery they've experienced from the Humans and Tenryuubito specifically. Nami's situation, though of a smaller scale share similarities with that of the Merfolk; ironically, she was abused by Fishmen and Fishman by Humans. This alone validates Luffy destroying the Island only when they've moved to the surface.
That archaic theory you've read is really not a good one.
Maybe her wrath isnt directed towards fishmen island anymore????
She knows the Tamtatebako is from Fishman Island.
Yes, but it was Luffy who exchanged the treasure, not the fishman..
Jimbei and Luffy have ties to Fishman Island.
Jinbei is probably already being dealth with... Luffy would be the target..
Fishman Island have been implicit in her assassination and destruction of her castle form their perspect
No, it was the fishmen, not the island itself.
I dont completely disagree with you, it will happen, but i think it will take weeks before that happens atleast. Mama would be mad at the strawhats, the Germa and Bege and gang first.... Probably even Caesar too... So the attack on fishmen island isn't off the cards, but it surely wont be her immediate priority.
And maybe you're not aware that it takes a few days to get from Fishman Island from WCI. In order for her to destroy it:
She needs to actually go there.
It doesn't automatically get destroyed just because she's not yet defeated. It's a 2-3 day journey from Fishman island to WCI (and vice versa obviously).
Yes and Luffy will sail to Wano, participate in a big scale war and return before she destroys FI. It doesn't take much to understand that she wont go to FI.
Even tho its rhetorical and you know the answer, i'll still repeat it. She wont go to FI. The root of all her problems is none other than Strawhat Luffy, going to FI and destroying it wont remove that root of the problem. Every single problem starting from the missing sweets delivery, Jinbe's rebelion, destruction of WCI and everything that happened in this last arc leads to one man. That man is not at Fishman island.
A shadow of a man with hat and flames behind him may be a bulletproof evidence of Luffy being physically present at FI for you but not for me. The symbolical representation of the prophecy.
Well, you want to tell me what i spoke of? That says enough, lol.
Fishmen will be able to go to the surface without destroying FI. Its not a prison where they are forced to do things they dont like, on the contrary, its the only safe place for them. Nami's room was a place she didnt want to be in, doing things for the person she doesnt want to work for.
Also, if it is a must place to visit, in order to go to the other side, Luffy would not destroy it for sure. It means its not a must place to stop by and its destruction will be connected to something else which we dont know of,yet.
Maybe her wrath isnt directed towards fishmen island anymore????
She knows the Tamtatebako is from Fishman Island.
Yes, but it was Luffy who exchanged the treasure, not the fishman..
Jimbei and Luffy have ties to Fishman Island.
Jinbei is probably already being dealth with... Luffy would be the target..
Fishman Island have been implicit in her assassination and destruction of her castle form their perspect
No, it was the fishmen, not the island itself.
I dont completely disagree with you, it will happen, but i think it will take weeks before that happens atleast. Mama would be mad at the strawhats, the Germa and Bege and gang first.... Probably even Caesar too... So the attack on fishmen island isn't off the cards, but it surely wont be her immediate priority.
Prior to this arc, she aimed her anger at Luffy because he challenged her head-on, she became intrigued and decided to oblige him. She was also given something in return. Wealth and the Tamatebako as insurance for Fishman Island being left alone.
The situation has escalated. This is no longer some guy who just challenged her, he came into her territory, destroyed her castle, ended her alliance with Germa to get technology and military power, defeated 2 commanders and was about to run away with Jimbei? Is she going to look at the Tamatebako being full of explosives and Jimbei's betrayal as an innocent mistake? She has to make an example of them and more so since they fled.
When you want to hurt people who you can't get to, you hurt things you can and things or those related to them become subject to any deleterious actions. Fishman Island should be an immediate goal given everything that's transpired and more so given her vindictive nature.
Doesn't matter if the Island didn't do anything to her, the point of destruction is to cause harm to the people. Jack and co. weren't mad at the city of Zou, but the Minks, yet they destroyed the buildings. In war, people are not mad at buildings, they just destroy them. Collateral damage. Should Big Mom end up in Fishman Island, that country is getting destroyed. I'm not sure why you're trying to isolate their habitation from destruction as if people take into consideration how innocent a country or place is physically when intending to administer as much hurt and pain.
Yes and Luffy will sail to Wano, participate in a big scale war and return before she destroys FI. It doesn't take much to understand that she wont go to FI.
There's no logical reason for her to leave Fishman island alone after:
They gave her a bomb in form of a gift which destroyed her castle.
The Fishman Pirates betrayed her.
Only reason Jimbei allied was to have the Island protected.
You give no sound reason as to why she wouldn't go after Fishman island and why she'd just sit down for the SHs to go fight a war, rest and then come back to fight. Illogical and makes no sense.
Nope, Jimbei betrayed her and Luffy wants to protect it. She has reasons to destroy it after they destroyed parts of her kingdom and ran away. Has nothing to do with me, just read the Manga.
Well, you want to tell me what i spoke of? That says enough, lol.
Fishmen will be able to go to the surface without destroying FI. Its not a prison where they are forced to do things they dont like, on the contrary, its the only safe place for them. Nami's room was a place she didnt want to be in, doing things for the person she doesnt want to work for.
Also, if it is a must place to visit, in order to go to the other side, Luffy would not destroy it for sure. It means its not a must place to stop by and its destruction will be connected to something else which we dont know of,yet.
Well, not like you make make you consolidate your points with sound reasoning. What Uranus has to do with Fishman island is just you grasping at straws from the looks of it.
Fishmen will be able to go to the surface without destroying FI. Its not a prison where they are forced to do things they dont like, on the contrary, its the only safe place for them. Nami's room was a place she didnt want to be in, doing things for the person she doesnt want to work for.
Also, if it is a must place to visit, in order to go to the other side, Luffy would not destroy it for sure. It means its not a must place to stop by and its destruction will be connected to something else which we dont know of,yet.
It's evident that you're pretty unlearned about Fishman Island, it either confirms you never read it or simply didn't understand it. Fishman Island is a prison when compared to what they could have should they go to the surface. There's limited air and light and they only live here because they're afraid to move to the surface.
Their goal is to live on the surface, not journey back and forth between. They use the word "Emigrate", pretty sure you know what that means.
As I said, you're pretty much in denial at this point.
Also, if it is a must place to visit, in order to go to the other side, Luffy would not destroy it for sure. It means its not a must place to stop by and its destruction will be connected to something else which we dont know of,yet.
Actually, if you read the first 104/105 chapters, you'd know that it's the Islands that are rich in minerals is what the Log Poses aim at. If it's destroyed, it means there'll be no magnetic field meaning it loses its relevance.
While there's reason for its destruction given its history, it's also possible what Madame Shirley is seeing is Luffy destroying Big Mom's sweet factory, but nevertheless, there's a lot more credence given to its destruction a la Nami's cartography room.
There's no logical reason for her to leave Fishman island alone after:
They gave her a bomb in form of a gift which destroyed her castle.
The Fishman Pirates betrayed her.
Only reason Jimbei allied was to have the Island protected.
You give no sound reason as to why she wouldn't go after Fishman island and why she'd just sit down for the SHs to go fight a war, rest and then come back to fight. Illogical and makes no sense, lol.
1. Luffy gave her the bomb.
2. Sun Pirates betrayed her bcs they allied with Luffy.
Luffy, Luffy and more Luffy. You fail to see that Luffy is behind it all. You forget Big Mom's goal. She wants to become Pirate King. Destroying FI wont stop Luffy from claiming the title himself. He is her competitor for the PK title. She has to take out him specifically and not play little games like destroying FI while Luffy advances towards the throne.
I spoke of an Ancient weapon which we know nothing about and Uranus is the only one that fits and you come and say "No, you didnt".
Yes, i am grasping at straws there when it comes to Uranus, doesn't make it absolutely impossible to happen.
Yes, the surface has more light but the surface is not safe for fishmen. Once FI gets destroyed there will no more be a place for sailors to spend time until log pose locks onto next island. Remember, going to New World through underwater currents has only 30% success rate. Its obvious that a safer route is needed.
Luffy destroying sweets factory is both poor imagination and lame prophecy.
@Hannibal Psyche I don't question Luffy destroying FI. I say he doesn't have to be physically present to destroy it. She can still see that, destruction of FI by Luffys hands even if he isnt right there.
@M3J FI destruction is inevitable, you tell me. Ride the current without making a pit stop? Wont need to go underwater at all?
Where does it say that they won't need to go underwater to cross the Grand Line (I forgot what it's called)? I thought the characters said you had to go under Fishman Island to get to the New World or back, unless there's another way that pirates can't use? Was that Mariejoas?
Maybe her wrath isnt directed towards fishmen island anymore????
She knows the Tamtatebako is from Fishman Island.
Yes, but it was Luffy who exchanged the treasure, not the fishman..
Jimbei and Luffy have ties to Fishman Island.
Jinbei is probably already being dealth with... Luffy would be the target..
Fishman Island have been implicit in her assassination and destruction of her castle form their perspect
No, it was the fishmen, not the island itself.
I dont completely disagree with you, it will happen, but i think it will take weeks before that happens atleast. Mama would be mad at the strawhats, the Germa and Bege and gang first.... Probably even Caesar too... So the attack on fishmen island isn't off the cards, but it surely wont be her immediate priority.
If you read long enough you would know that root of the anger she has for Jinbe is Luffy.
You mentioning the sweets factory is what i called poor imagination. Lame prophecy is what i refer with to Shirleys prophecy, not to your factory idea.
That possibility is indeed a fact, even if its poor imagination.
Calling something lame is subjective, yes. I wasn't using it as a fact.
Well, you said that FI is a must. Otherwise, all the screenshots you posted about the log pose and magnetic fields...
If you scroll up i said there would be an alternative way, "safer way required".
Well, your screenshot says it all. "It means nothing if you go", because it is not safe for them to go. They can go and have been going and it didnt end up well for them. They cant just go and try to get along. The reason she was collecting signatures is to show how many are willing to migrate to all those who attended Reverie at that time. It has to be approved at the Reverie or they have to be backed up and supported/protected by, lets say, a Pirate King Luffy.
@M3J They won't need to go underwater if WG is overthrown so they cross from above or if part of Red Line gets destroyed.
For now, yes and thats my point. Luffy is going to be the immediate target. If anything, he is taking the bullseye away from FI and putting it on himself.
Even if Sun pirates interfere too much, they'll either die or turn into some homie. FI can even bribe themselves away by offerring more sweets.. Perhaps, that's going to be their penalty too. Luffy has done far too much damage... She will send some of her children to chase Luffy and some others to chase Bege and Germa...
If Mama will go after FI how will that affect the story? Even if it takes 3 days for them to get to FI, i am sure it takes much longer for teh strawhats to reach Wano... Give Wano arc itself 3 - 5 days and a week to get there, you are looking at 2 weeks of action. If Mama goes after FI right away, it will be destroyed before Wano..
