One Piece Mega Convo Thread

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The cake saved everyone even his crew

The cake baking was the stupidest thing I've seen the cake baker do.
We had a constantly reducing Big Mom giving the chase of her life while running low on ATP (energy in biology).. She would've been done for had the Cake Baker not given her the cake. The worst she could've done was destroy her territory and kill a whole lot of her citizens and children which would still be win for the Strawhats (albeit somewhat gory) only for Beige to leave the cake for her due to consenting to the Cake Baker's wishes.

And here's to backup my Cake Baker being stupid comment:

Sanji: I'll bake a cake that'll knock Big Mom out. (Bold claim).
Big Mom: It's similar to the best thing I've tasted in my entire life. (Still conscious).

The guy tried to do what his captain couldn't (knock out a Yonko) in his own way but instead, ended up restoring back Big Mom's energy, life, happiness, joy, sense of Yonkoship, and Bragging rights (among other detriments his actions caused).

If that isn't stupidity, then I don't know what is...

 

[King Moe]

PageOne is not Drake's subordinate and is part of the same group of fighters but even among same group of fighters there could be huge gap in combat capabilities, for example, Snack and Katakuri. People assumed that PageOne is Drake's equal due to being in the same group but if they really are equal remains to be seen.
Imo, if PageOne gets trashed by Sanji without injuring him or making it extremely difficult fight then I have to assume that PageOne is not Drake's equal because I dont believe that Sanji would be able to defeat Drake in the same way, if defeat him at all.

One thing I wonder tho... Why disguise himself from someone who doesnt know him in the first place?


I really cant tell why are you trying so hard to convince me that WCI was good arc when it wasnt, in my opinion. I watched Morj's video and he didnt change my mind. I never used minority or majority, you used it. I only said, there is plenty of people who dislike that arc for valid reasons.
I am just correcting you here since I never said that everyone hates the arc.

I agree with you on Page One and Drake. They are apart of top 6 Headliners after all, but it never mention who is stronger as both Drake and Page don't seem to address the other as superior as others and it is possible these top 6 Headliners are the Daifuku, Oven, and Perospero lvl of fights, meaning Semi-Commander lvl until further notice, doesn't really matter who stronger than who, but since Sanji is going to overtake Page One due to the what stated last chapter, it be a big feat for him to overcome them especially without no injury. It puts him more at Supernova lvl more out of it.

To prevent learning it's truly him if he fight as himself without something covering him. Look with Luffy and Zoro as they fought as they are and soon found out and it didn't go well with Luffy being jailed and Zoro still being hunted down. With RS, he can still walk around with no worries while using RS as an alter-ego as a facade for the Beast Pirates to look for instead. He thinking things before hand before getting into it instead of rushing without a plan about like the other two.

Not trying to convince you to like it, but just saying your points and from how it seems you stated everyone hates it, if you agree that wasn't what you meant, then it's fine. Though those with 'vaild arguments' remain to be seen as so far I seen nothing, but poor reasons on that side that been proven wrong. Again respect you and others, but Idk how many have 'valid' reasons for all of them .

 

[King Moe]

The cake baking was the stupidest thing I've seen the cake baker do.
We had a constantly reducing Big Mom giving the chase of her life while running low on ATP (energy in biology).. She would've been done for had the Cake Baker not given her the cake. The worst she could've done was destroy her territory and kill a whole lot of her citizens and children which would still be win for the Strawhats (albeit somewhat gory) only for Beige to leave the cake for her due to consenting to the Cake Baker's wishes.

And here's to backup my Cake Baker being stupid comment:

Sanji: I'll bake a cake that'll knock Big Mom out. (Bold claim).
Big Mom: It's similar to the best thing I've tasted in my entire life. (Still conscious).

The guy tried to do what his captain couldn't (knock out a Yonko) in his own way but instead, ended up restoring back Big Mom's energy, life, happiness, joy, sense of Yonkoship, and Bragging rights (among other detriments his actions caused).

If that isn't stupidity, then I don't know what is...

Same as True, your acting really petty just the same, Ain. Your post make no sense at all that would have happen. If you think without it, the situation be like that, then you don't know Oda after all these years.

Are we reading the same chapter and arc? Don't you remember how she shrug off attacks from Nami using Zeus, Jimbei using Vanabond Drill, Chopper's Monster Point, etc.. Nothing physical will take her down and if it wasn't for the cake, Strawhats and many others will be doom as well citizens who have nothing to do with it and children. Nothing you said validate the cake was bad idea especially Oda emphasizes in SBS how it was needed to calm her down or else more catasprohere will continue to happen. Why are you underestimating Big Mom? She is a monster and Yonko for a reason even if she eventuality went down in energy, she still go on rampage to the bitter end. Nothing would stop her and the cake was the answer.

Uhhh...Did you not see timeskip of hours later of her eventuality waking up? She was laying on the ground with hearts in her eyes. If it was immediately, then she would have destroy the crew and get everyone. There was shifting of frames show time has passed since she ate it and only wake up when the Strawhats were already gone from sight. The cake did knock her out for hours, not forever. It's impossible for that and with the time needed they got away from it.

Pretty sure it was smart, but for those like you don't understand kinda hitting the 'poor' side of things. No offense, but you really don't seem to understand the situation as you boldly claim to so. Again, I respect opinions, but yours is not truly to see the facts in your face. Your picking and choosing to read and not reading the context in the slightest at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2019 ---

I still feel the Cake Baker will redeem himself this arc. He better not prove me wrong as he did his captain for I'm less forgiving than the kind-hearted Luffy.

Meanwhile, Sanji's gone down my favourite OP character list since WCI. He's surely not making my top 10. Top 15... Not so much. Top 20? We'll see at the end of Wano.

Sanji* already redeem himself after WCI and has been on a role for awhile and where Luffy said he is disappointed in him for making the cake? Your really stretching the truth and putting personal feelings which is kinda shameful to put in a debate talk, dude. Learn to come with facts, than emotional opinions.

Alright then, but talk that to majority who did popularity polls in both West and East and he was in Top 3 still. You can dislike the arc all you want, but your emotions shows truth your just poor and want your own ideas to be realize when they wouldn't work no matter how you look at the situation in the end. The more you keeping looking your way and not how Oda's write a series, then Idk what to say as you seem to want to be right on everything you have a idea for than respecting how the series goes.

 

[nik87]

Though those with 'vaild arguments' remain to be seen as so far I seen nothing, but poor reasons on that side that been proven wrong. Again respect you and others, but Idk how many have 'valid' reasons for all of them .

I gave you valid reasons why I disliked the arc and you didnt prove them wrong.
How did you prove wrong bad pacing?
Ho did you prove wrong overuse of Luffy in fights?
How did you prove wrong going in circles?
How did you prove wrong too many close calls?
How did you prove wrong that Pudding had too much screen time for no reason?

These are things that happened in that arc, I would like like to see you prove them wrong but you cant change those things.

On the other hand, I will be open-minded about Sanji vs PageOne and give him a chance but I am already heavily doubting PageOne's strength and equality with Drake. Devil is in the details and when you look closer you can spot that PageOne could easily be a loudmouth who is about to get pummeled.
No build up for his character compared to Drake who is being built up since before time-skip.
Introduction scene, Drake is calm and cool while PageOne is crashing a building for no reason, his facial expression almost a joke.
Everything about him screams Jaya Bellamy version 2.0.
I hope I am wrong.

 

[King Moe]

I gave you valid reasons why I disliked the arc and you didnt prove them wrong.
How did you prove wrong bad pacing?
Ho did you prove wrong overuse of Luffy in fights?
How did you prove wrong going in circles?
How did you prove wrong too many close calls?
How did you prove wrong that Pudding had too much screen time for no reason?

These are things that happened in that arc, I would like like to see you prove them wrong but you cant change those things.

On the other hand, I will be open-minded about Sanji vs PageOne and give him a chance but I am already heavily doubting PageOne's strength and equality with Drake. Devil is in the details and when you look closer you can spot that PageOne could easily be a loudmouth who is about to get pummeled.
No build up for his character compared to Drake who is being built up since time-skip.
Introduction scene, Drake is calm and cool while PageOne is crashing a building for no reason, his facial expression almost a joke.
Everything about him screams Jaya Bellamy version 2.0.
I hope I am wrong.

I said them in my past posts. Look back at them. If you don't, your clearly ignoring them all. Not going to repost what I said if your choosing to not check them out. Again your free to dislike the arc in your manner, but just saying not all your reasoning are valid and that goes for others who dislike it as I seen those who said similar stuff like you and get countered on them.

He build up as one of the Top 6 Headliners, he has build up even though it's quite recent. Sanji beating him won't take that away or the position as it just proves he is stronger than them. Character's personality doesn't determine if they are weak or not as just because Page One is like that doesn't mean he is not worthy as I mean Kaido is drunk type of guy and yet he is a Yonko. A character even if they are calm and cool, isn't always stronger person. Also pushing it if you think this is Bellamy situation as that was something different than this. It most like Luffy vs Blueno from what others being calling it out from it.

 

[King Moe]

Hey, just be careful about your expectations with this fight. There is no guarantee Sanji wins this.


Dont back yourself into a corner.

Sanji already dropped him, let's see if Sanji could drop him hard enough to keep him down.

It's not me. It's the situation, Lexus. Law stated how important he can't be injured and need to prepare the final fight. Plus already setting up for Queen and him facing off later on. It all points to that by Oda has written, so what reason is Sanji to died here or even injured? Makes no sense either way.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2019 ---

While I agree that what Sanji did as far as feeding the monster that could very well be the death of them all, like Ain said before, Big Mom was on the path to death. I mean her body was already eating itself. Logically they should have kept running until she died, which would have eventually happened. It would have been the smart thing to do imho.
Having said that, Sanji did exactly what we should have expected him to do. Fed someone who was hungry exactly what they wanted. The chef in his saw both a need and a challenge. Yeah we all think logically, tactically, it was stupid, but concerning Sanji, it was perfectly in character. Anything else wouldn’t have made sense. I mean would you really have rather had him abandon his whole “feed anyone that is hungry” thing? It’s one of the cooler points of his character.

I see and respect your points, but cake was smart tactical too. Nothing showed Big Mom was going to stop and kill over right away. She was about to kill everyone of the Strawhats. Nothing could stop her at all. Even she will go out, she would have taken many lives and destroy everywhere around her in the end. No one would survive, thus cake was truly the solution for it. Emphasized more by Oda in SBS about the situation more.

Main reason for those who don't like it. They see it "unmanly" and expected physical force against her when we all knew it was impossible due to G4 from Luffy couldn't dented her. No other reason could have work and save the others in the end. What Sanji did make sense, not just his character, but situation at hand.

 

[M3J]

Well, if sanji makes a cake so delicious it kills people then it means sanji can't cook anything more delicious than that because it would be the same as poisoning them.

The whole cake thing was still a disappointment with little to no payoff. All it did was give the strawhats enough time towards the end so that jinbe and germa could sacrifice themselves for the strawhats.

Since when are a captain and his subordinate equal? Normally the captain is at least somewhat stronger than any of his subordinates. It'd be fairly surprising if this guy was actually drake's equal.

I don't mean specifically the top 3 commanders. More like... any of a yonko's commanders. Most of the yonko seem to have about 10-ish commanders who make up the bulk of the crew's strength and main crew. Kaido likely has something akin to that as well.

Yeah but killing people is still bad because that means they can't enjoy food.

There was payoff. Big Mom stayed out of the way long enough to save the ship and to give the crew time to get away. Jinbei and Germa were forced into that position because they had to go get Luffy, who chose to go back into the fight rather than try to find the Sunny. I also am willing to bet the Germa and Sun Pirates managed to get away.

Page is under Drake? I thought he was with Kaidou. Plus, it's not always a guarantee given Buggy, even though he is the only anomaly we've seen so far. But still. And Zoro and Luffy were teased to be either even or extremely close in strength, so same can apply for Page and Drake.

I dunno, it depends on how the crew and territory is set up. Shanks doesn't seem to run like that while Whitebeard's crew was pretty huge, and so is Big Mom's.

One thing I wonder tho... Why disguise himself from someone who doesnt know him in the first place?

Why would Sanji want to risk being caught? The key to this mission is to stay as covert as possible, which Luffy miserably failed to do. At least in a disguise, they (meaning anyone on Kaidou's side) won't likely say "whoa, if Black Leg is here then that means all of the Straw Hats are!!"

While I agree that what Sanji did as far as feeding the monster that could very well be the death of them all, like Ain said before, Big Mom was on the path to death. I mean her body was already eating itself. Logically they should have kept running until she died, which would have eventually happened. It would have been the smart thing to do imho.
Having said that, Sanji did exactly what we should have expected him to do. Fed someone who was hungry exactly what they wanted. The chef in his saw both a need and a challenge. Yeah we all think logically, tactically, it was stupid, but concerning Sanji, it was perfectly in character. Anything else wouldn’t have made sense. I mean would you really have rather had him abandon his whole “feed anyone that is hungry” thing? It’s one of the cooler points of his character.

Despite her being on the path to death (which is very debatable), she was still doing considerable damage to the ship, and had Sanji not lured her away with the cake, the ship would have likely been destroyed. Most arguments against Sanji has been pretty trash, like "if Sanji was there then he, Luffy, and Jinbei could have beaten Katakuri!" Running from Big Mom seems almost impossible, she kept catching up to the crew whether on land or on water.

As you said, Sanji did as we should have expected. Dude's introductory arc was literally him feeding a potential enemy and feeding enemies that he knew would turn on them once they were full, and it still didn't stop him. Luffy was even proud or happy with Sanji for willing to save his family from Big Mom, even, so he knew what to expect from Sanji.

Onus would be on Bege for not poisoning the cake, it should be in his character to anyway.

 

[nik87]

I'm saying if Zoro did that, you would likely hold that up as proof of how amazing Zoro was. Which would be fair, it would be amazing! And if Sanji easily beats Page One, it will be amazing as well. Despite what you say, he hasn't been shown to be weaker than the other 6 in his group. Sanji beating him easily will be a good showing for Sanji, not a bad showing for Page One.

Zoro has easily beaten Pica, I have never mentioned that as anything towards Zoro's hype but rather as Pica not being a worthy challenge. The only impressive thing about Zoro in that fight is slicing that huge surface but off-ing Pica himself was not impressive from Pica's side. The same can happen with PageOne but I hope it doesnt.

Wouldnt it be better to wait and see how the fight goes and how good other 5 members of the group are before saying it was an amazing victory for Sanji? I got the feeling that Sanji squad will take anything and call it amazing seeing how this is "already a given" amazing score for Sanji.
It could be amazing but for it to be amazing it cannot be an easy fight for Sanji. At least that's my definition of an amazing victory.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Your really stretching the truth and putting personal feelings which is kinda shameful to put in a debate talk, dude. Learn to come with facts, than emotional opinions.

Oi Oi why are you trying to twist things towards what you think is right? As I've pointed out in the past and Nik currently did, everyone is entitled to their opinion of a character.
Why do we have polls in the first place? If everyone thought of the same character in the same way then it'd defeat the purpose of them polls.

I vividly stated my opinion of Sanji and how I relate to the character not what a thousand people feel and you are here crying about personal feelings. Perhaps you should get to understand storytelling and why different people see things in their own unique way.

Uhhh...Did you not see timeskip of hours later of her eventuality waking up? She was laying on the ground with hearts in her eyes. If it was immediately, then she would have destroy the crew and get everyone.

Oh I certainly did and the only time skip was her back on the QMC with homies rejuvenated and her crew's morale restored. There was nothing indicating her getting knocked out after eating the cake just pure bliss, hence the "hearts". If she was knocked out we should be getting "sleep bubbles" or "whites in her eyes" but there was no such thing. Also, If that were the case Peros would be greatly worried cos seeing Mama knocked out was one of the 2 scenarios he calculated happening with the cake. She definitely didn't get knocked out!
Oda would've shown us that with pleasure since it was the one objective the Cake Baker - Sanji - had to do, knock BM out and he failed.

Don't try to cover for him cos his actions had consequences. Of course at a point in the story it was the only thing left to do but the moment BM's attention turned away from the Sunny was the moment the alliance had the upper hand. Everything else we know; so no need to bring that up.

 

[King Moe]

Oi Oi why are you trying to twist things towards what you think is right? As I've pointed out in the past and Nik currently did, everyone is entitled to their opinion of a character.
Why do we have polls in the first place? If everyone thought of the same character in the same way then it'd defeat the purpose of them polls.

I vividly stated my opinion of Sanji and how I relate to the character not what a thousand people feel and you are here crying about personal feelings. Perhaps you should get to understand storytelling and why different people see things in their own unique way.




Oh I certainly did and the only time skip was her back on the QMC with homies rejuvenated and her crew's morale restored. There was nothing indicating her getting knocked out after eating the cake just pure bliss, hence the "hearts". If she was knocked out we should be getting "sleep bubbles" or "whites in her eyes" but there was no such thing. Also, If that were the case Peros would be greatly worried cos seeing Mama knocked out was one of the 2 scenarios he calculated happening with the cake. She definitely didn't get knocked out!
Oda would've shown us that with pleasure since it was the one objective the Cake Baker - Sanji - had to do, knock BM out and he failed.

Don't try to cover for him cos his actions had consequences. Of course at a point in the story it was the only thing left to do but the moment BM's attention turned away from the Sunny was the moment the alliance had the upper hand. Everything else we know; so no need to bring that up.

They aren't my opinion, but the majority that think that way. I respect your opinion, but I am not the only one who called you out about it like M3J and others on here. I do understand it, but your reasoning and idea of it of what you think should have happen, wouldn't work is what I am telling you and the storytelling wasn't bad as few try to perceive about it.

Yep, that was 2-3 hours it took while she was down. You said she came back right away when that's not true as if she was back on her feet that fast, she would have catch up to the crew right away. She didn't meaning the cake did knock her out for awhile and gave them time to escape. Also really?...Dude, even with hearts, she was clearly dreaming and knockout as shown her mumbling about the cake and laying flat on her back. She is knockout by pleasure, not regular knockout from it. Why would Perospero? They wanted something to calm her and possible not the first time he seen her in that state at all as she probably ate something to make her like that before.

She was knockout whether you try to denied it or not. Black Leg Sanji did what he did and it worked and you seem to not accept despite others already said cake was the only solution out of it and no way they could have combat her. I get your opinion and if you don't like the arc, that's fine, but don't put false facts like they are real and the cake did nothing when it was important in the arc. Oda even mention how important it was in SBS, so if you even denying this despite his writing and words, then you and the few are the only ones who acting in denial about it.

What you mean turn away and they had the upper hand? Nothing physical was doing damage to her. Her guard won't lower even when she is looking somewhere and eating especially when she is eating. That would make it stupid and worse if they choose to attack her then and try to take her down instead of escaping. If Luffy in Gear 4th couldn't damage her, then nothing will. She is a Yonko, not some one-off fodder, Ain. There is no consequences your trying to prove and Sanji did the right thing about it no matter what you said about the cake and what should have been done. Not hating you or disrespecting you, but your really denying what is fact about the cake for the sake of some fighting or something else to beat Big Mom when it was impossible especially when the Strawhats were about to die by her hands if not for the cake.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Sanji* already redeem himself after WCI and has been on a role for awhile and where Luffy said he is disappointed in him for making the cake?

Now who's putting personal feelings into perspective?

In what part of my post did I say Luffy is disappointed in Sanji for making the cake huh? Why are you reading into things that aren't there?

Again I said he better not prove me wrong this arc as I'm less forgiving than the kind-hearted Luffy.
If it weren't apparent to you what I'm getting at, then you could've just asked.
Next thing I know you are already jumping into conclusion that it's me bashing Sanji.

The comparison between myself and Luffy is in kindness and forgiveness as I already concede of not being as good natured as the Strawhat captain.
I mean, he allowed himself get beat and bashed by the cake baker while he refused to defend himself or Haki up. Taking everything Sanji could dish out. And here I am hinting that any more Sanji unfulfillment for me like at WCI occuring this arc will lead to the character going down my all time OP favourite character list.

GET IT?


I understand. You like the guy but so do many others (myself included) yet they don't voice their every in all matters relating to Sanji.

Have a rest buddy.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

They aren't my opinion, but the majority that think that way. I respect your opinion, but I am not the only one who called you out about it like M3J and others on here. I do understand it, but your reasoning and idea of it of what you think should have happen, wouldn't work is what I am telling you and the storytelling wasn't bad as few try to perceive about it.

Yep, that was 2-3 hours it took while she was down. You said she came back right away when that's not true as if she was back on her feet that fast, she would have catch up to the crew right away. She didn't meaning the cake did knock her out for awhile and gave them time to escape. Also really?...Dude, even with hearts, she was clearly dreaming and knockout as shown her mumbling about the cake and laying flat on her back. She is knockout by pleasure, not regular knockout from it. Why would Perospero? They wanted something to calm her and possible not the first time he seen her in that state at all as she probably ate something to make her like that before.

She was knockout whether you try to denied it or not. Black Leg Sanji did what he did and it worked and you seem to not accept despite others already said cake was the only solution out of it and no way they could have combat her. I get your opinion and if you don't like the arc, that's fine, but don't put false facts like they are real and the cake did nothing when it was important in the arc. Oda even mention how important it was in SBS, so if you even denying this despite his writing and words, then you and the few are the only ones who acting in denial about it.

What you mean turn away and they had the upper hand? Nothing physical was doing damage to her. Her guard won't lower even when she is looking somewhere and eating especially when she is eating. That would make it stupid and worse if they choose to attack her then and try to take her down instead of escaping. If Luffy in Gear 4th couldn't damage her, then nothing will. She is a Yonko, not some one-off fodder, Ain. There is no consequences your trying to prove and Sanji did the right thing about it no matter what you said about the cake and what should have been done. Not hating you or disrespecting you, but your really denying what is fact about the cake for the sake of some fighting or something else to beat Big Mom when it was impossible especially when the Strawhats were about to die by her hands if not for the cake.

(*Sighs like Kaido*)

Man you simply do not get my points at all...

2-3 hours? What Manga do you read.
Not to sound rude but I think you should go back and reread chapter 900 and 901 (this is me assuming you actually read it before).

Mama's eyes never went blank since she took her first bite out of the cake and only had heart eyes after the meal.
Also I'd like you to check the definition of knock out and tell me if a knocked out person talks while being KO'd, or are they able to receive debriefing of a situation and come up with contingencies while being KO'd?
Oh... I remember, Luffy got KO'd not too long ago and he wasn't speaking. Was he?

The worst thing that happened to Big Mom after eating the cake was she pausing to lay flat on her back in complete food satisfaction while receiving a debriefing from Perospero.
SHE WAS NEVER ONCE KNOCKED OUT!!!

What you mean turn away and they had the upper hand

Good question.

I'm talking about the end of chapter 890 and chapter 891 where BM was about to destroy the SH's ship only for her to perceive the "Wedding cake" from Bege's ship which she started chasing.

Hence, the alliance (Bege) had the upper hand in this position as they could decide where they want BM to follow them to. Ultimately they chose Nuts island (IIRC) which is when Bege conceded the cake to her.

The story could've gone any way from there if Oda so wished. Destruction of WCI by her own hands and whatnot but plot armour as we like to say kept her alive.

What you mean turn away and they had the upper hand? Nothing physical was doing damage to her. Her guard won't lower even when she is looking somewhere and eating especially when she is eating. That would make it stupid and worse if they choose to attack her then and try to take her down instead of escaping. If Luffy in Gear 4th couldn't damage her, then nothing will

Shows you didn't understand my point.
But hope you have now.

Please read those chapters before replying my comment if you still wish to drag this on.

 

[King Moe]

Now who's putting personal feelings into perspective?

In what part of my post did I say Luffy is disappointed in Sanji for making the cake huh? Why are you reading into things that aren't there?

Again I said he better not prove me wrong this arc as I'm less forgiving than the kind-hearted Luffy.
If it weren't apparent to you what I'm getting at, then you could've just asked.
Next thing I know you are already jumping into conclusion that it's me bashing Sanji.

The comparison between myself and Luffy is in kindness and forgiveness as I already concede of not being as good natured as the Strawhat captain.
I mean, he allowed himself get beat and bashed by the cake baker while he refused to defend himself or Haki up. Taking everything Sanji could dish out. And here I am hinting that any more Sanji unfulfillment for me like at WCI occuring this arc will lead to the character going down my all time OP favourite character list.

GET IT?


I understand. You like the guy but so do many others (myself included) yet they don't voice their every in all matters relating to Sanji.

Have a rest buddy.

How that putting feelings? It's not feelings, it's what you said in your post. From how it's worded, you made it sound like that.

Again, doesn't matter how you feel it's how the series is and so far it make sense on how things went into it. Your fine with your opinion, but don't get carried away on how you feel is factual.

Sanji have no choice for that fight especially his family were right there and Luffy understand why he did it and his actions later on. Of course he is forgiving especially when someone is force to do something and not themselves on doing it. Your free to how you feel like I said above in my posts, but again stuff like the 'cake didn't matter' or anything like that your passing as fact is unfactual and your still proving my point as you call him 'cake-baker' since your acting on emotions, not respectful on it. So your not really making me and others see your point if your acting like that on emotions.

I respect your dislike what happened, but just saying don't think it's all over for the character or that was Sanji's last moment to shine when he be in the crew for a long time. That just make you look 'poor' in your judgment at all. Get what I mean? Just saying being more understanding and don't let your emotions get the better of you on what has really happened in the end in the series in your face. Not pick and choose what happen and try to past them as facts.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2019 ---

(*Sighs like Kaido*)

Man you simply do not get my points at all...

2-3 hours? What Manga do you read.
Not to sound rude but I think you should go back and reread chapter 900 and 901 (this is me assuming you actually read it before).

Mama's eyes never went blank since she took her first bite out of the cake and only had heart eyes after the meal.
Also I'd like you to check the definition of knock out and tell me if a knocked out person talks while being KO'd, or are they able to receive debriefing of a situation and come up with contingencies while being KO'd?
Oh... I remember, Luffy got KO'd not too long ago and he wasn't speaking. Was he?

The worst thing that happened to Big Mom after eating the cake was she pausing to lay flat on her back in complete food satisfaction while receiving a debriefing from Perospero.
SHE WAS NEVER ONCE KNOCKED OUT!!!





Good question.

I'm talking about the end of chapter 890 and chapter 891 where BM was about to destroy the SH's ship only for her to perceive the "Wedding cake" from Bege's ship which she started chasing.

Hence, the alliance (Bege) had the upper hand in this position as they could decide where they want BM to follow them to. Ultimately they chose Nuts island (IIRC) which is when Bege conceded the cake to her.

The story could've gone any way from there if Oda so wished. Destruction of WCI by her own hands and whatnot but plot armour as we like to say kept her alive.




Shows you didn't understand my point.
But hope you have now.

Please read those chapters before replying my comment if you still wish to drag this on.

Dude, there was a time frame and they said after Big Mom went to the cake it takes 3 hours to fully get our of the Totto Land territory. They were able to reach the end before Big Mom out of his state. You keep saying she woke up immediately yet if she really did, why didn't she catch up to them if she was that close? That shows time has passed enough that she wasn't that close and knock to the ground for awhile. The cake was meant to subside her and keep her at bay, not knock her out forever.

I think you need to reread the chapters she ate the cake and see for yourself as your are ignoring it. After she took a bite, the pages went into dreamscape of her thinking about the cake and soon laying flat on her back once it was over. When went into the other pages and chapters, the Strawhats were discussion how long it takes and time was moving along as that was going as you can see the 'shifting lines' which indicate time was moving and that means hours have passed before eventuality wake up. Did you not see how Bege taste what Sanji made and his crew said how he was almost knockout by just a sample? She ate it and it knock her out for good as it was clear as day and having hearts in your eyes doesn't mean your still awake. She was knockout and mumble stuff from her dream. If she was awake, she would be more aware of her surroundings and pay attention to Perospero speaking to her, but she didn't show response much at all.

The reason they put it on Nuts is because Big Mom was chasing them and was destroying their ship. They couldn't last long as it she wanted that cake badly. It shows as after they set it there, their ship was destroyed as a result. So no way they could have went ot the other islands and do the destruction of WCI like you said, so no it's not plot armor, it's having a dangerous Yonko after you and them could have died if they weren't careful enough. Nothing in no direction could have done out Big Mom or work against her crew in the end. Oda is a planner and he made sure that every possibility was block and thus why things went the way they were.

I already read the chapters and show nothing that your way was correct, Ain. Again I respect if you dislike the arc, but don't put false ideas as they could have work or fact. M3J and others in this discussion and past discussions said how important cake is and how it went. I am not coming at you with hate or disrespect, but this is how it is, no matter how much you want to denied it.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

How that putting feelings? It's not feelings, it's what you said in your post. From how it's worded, you made it sound like that.

Again, doesn't matter how you feel it's how the series is and so far it make sense on how things went into it. Your fine with your opinion, but don't get carried away on how you feel is factual.

Sanji have no choice for that fight especially his family were right there and Luffy understand why he did it and his actions later on. Of course he is forgiving especially when someone is force to do something and not themselves on doing it. Your free to how you feel like I said above in my posts, but again stuff like the 'cake didn't matter' or anything like that your passing as fact is unfactual and your still proving my point as you call him 'cake-baker' since your acting on emotions, not respectful on it. So your not really making me and others see your point if your acting like that on emotions.

I respect your dislike what happened, but just saying don't think it's all over for the character or that was Sanji's last moment to shine when he be in the crew for a long time. That just make you look 'poor' in your judgment at all. Get what I mean? Just saying being more understanding and don't let your emotions get the better of you on what has really happened in the end in the series in your face. Not pick and choose what happen and try to past them as facts.

Don't take it the wrong way though. I'm just going with the flow here; "cake baker" cos it has humour in it and is very relatable.

I mean come on let's not deny it. The most significant thing Sanji did in WCI was bake a cake. Hence my accepting the new nick name for my boy Sanji.

But while we are at it let's not forget his cool traits though:
- Strong and Handsome chef
- Cool and composed
- Clear headed
- The most loving of a family of royalty
- Loves women - too much (not sure if this is a good thing especially when it's bordering on perversion)
- Loves to serve and hates to starve people.

 

[King Moe]

Don't take it the wrong way though. I'm just going with the flow here; "cake baker" cos it has humour in it and is very relatable.

I mean come on let's not deny it. The most significant thing Sanji did in WCI was bake a cake. Hence my accepting the new nick name for my boy Sanji.

But while we are at it let's not forget his cool traits though:
- Strong and Handsome chef
- Cool and composed
- Clear headed
- The most loving of a family of royalty
- Loves women - too much (not sure if this is a good thing especially when it's bordering on perversion)
- Loves to serve and hates to starve people.

Though always left put how cake save lives and making it seems it means nothing from your past post. Again, your free to dislike it, but it still was important to the plot. Also Sanji also did more things in changing Pudding, fighting of BM Pirates, saving Luffy and his crew, etc.. He has many achievements in the arc, so if your serious on wanting to be a fan of him, then acting like this isn't the way. Show support, not discredit everything he done in the series over something you didn't enjoy. I respect you for not liking what he did, but he is going to get moments to shine how you originally thought. Like the latest chapter showing. Sanji is facing Page One and potential fighters later on and possibly Queen or King. So please be open-minded on things instead focusing on the cake issue that serves it purpose in logical manner.

Just saying to you with respect.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

You keep saying she woke up immediately

Please quote me saying she woke up immediately.
This is my problem with many a person. You misinterpret or assume someone says something which they didn't.
Big Mom wasn't knocked out hence there was nothing to wake up from.

And if you say she didn't here Perospero's briefing then tell me as to why Oda drew the panel of her saying "Luffy is still alive" and "I'll take his soul and use it to create very powerful homies".
Or why we had her arrive and fully aware of what was going on before the near destruction of the SH's ship were it not for the fishmen pulling it downwards.
I've been looking into the chapters (900 and 901) for the past 1 hour and I can't find a single panel with BM knocked out for good.
Please provide them...

I already read the chapters and show nothing that your way was correct, Ain.

Nope you didn't. And even if you did you fail to understand the chapter and you are taking things as they aren't shown just as you misinterpret words into sth else entirely.

They said it takes 3 hours to get out of Totto land territory and you misinterpret that as Big Mom being knocked out for 3 hours?

I give up...

Strawhats were still in Totto land prior to BM's arrival and she still caught up to them after having her cake. They were only able to escape Tottoland's borders after the last stand of Fishmen and Vinsmoke family.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2019 ---

Though always left put how cake save lives and making it seems it means nothing from your past post. Again, your free to dislike it, but it still was important to the plot. Also Sanji also did more things in changing Pudding, fighting of BM Pirates, saving Luffy and his crew, etc.. He has many achievements in the arc, so if your serious on wanting to be a fan of him, then acting like this isn't the way. Show support, not discredit everything he done in the series over something you didn't enjoy. I respect you for not liking what he did, but he is going to get moments to shine how you originally thought. Like the latest chapter showing. Sanji is facing Page One and potential fighters later on and possibly Queen or King. So please be open-minded on things instead focusing on the cake issue that serves it purpose in logical manner.

Just saying to you with respect.

In the end we all love Sanji.

Whether it's by supporting him through his hard time in the series
OR
Bashing him for not doing well in a fight
OR
Praising him for his cool moments.

To each his own.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019 ---

Well, Big Mom was still down, happy and content, and likely would not have moved if Perospero didn't update her on what was going on at the time.

My point exactly!

At least you get what I'm saying.

 

[M3J]

My point exactly!

At least you get what I'm saying.
You a Sanji fanboy too?

No need to answer I can tell...

My point was that Sanji did succeed in at least rendering Big Mom immobile for a while until Perospero brought her back to reality. If not for that, she would have still been out of the fight. Are you agreeing with this?

I'm an unbiased and objective poster, at least moreso than most people here. Also, it's annoying as fuck seeing Sanji brought up so constantly, and to see people respond to it. Jeez.

Off topic.
I feel at the end of Wano Arc Franky aka Franosuke will improve the Sunny helped by the legendary carpenter he met.

That'd be great, probably make it more angry-Emperor proof somehow.

 

[King Moe]

Please quote me saying she woke up immediately.
This is my problem with many a person. You misinterpret or assume someone says something which they didn't.
Big Mom wasn't knocked out hence there was nothing to wake up from.

And if you say she didn't here Perospero's briefing then tell me as to why Oda drew the panel of her saying "Luffy is still alive" and "I'll take his soul and use it to create very powerful homies".
Or why we had her arrive and fully aware of what was going on before the near destruction of the SH's ship were it not for the fishmen pulling it downwards.
I've been looking into the chapters (900 and 901) for the past 1 hour and I can't find a single panel with BM knocked out for good.
Please provide them...



Nope you didn't. And even if you did you fail to understand the chapter and you are taking things as they aren't shown just as you misinterpret words into sth else entirely.

They said it takes 3 hours to get out of Totto land territory and you misinterpret that as Big Mom being knocked out for 3 hours?

I give up...

Strawhats were still in Totto land prior to BM's arrival and she still caught up to them after having her cake. They were only able to escape Tottoland's borders after the last stand of Fishmen and Vinsmoke family.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2019 ---

In the end we all love Sanji.

Whether it's by supporting him through his hard time in the series
OR
Bashing him for not doing well in a fight
OR
Praising him for his cool moments.

To each his own.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019 ---

My point exactly!

At least you get what I'm saying.
You a Sanji fanboy too?

No need to answer I can tell...

Why quote when you said it in past posts that we all seen? If she wasn't, why she didn't catch up to them right away? The purpose of the cake was to slow her down. If it didn't, why didn't she catch up to them? Meaning it did and she did sleep for hours to give them time to escape.

You can see in shifting lines on pages of time passing. Oda been using stuff like that to show time has passed. Same thing for this situation just the same too. All points shows that cake did knock her out and she didn't respond right away on going after them. If she did, she would have gotten them, but it shows her laying on her back, mumbling about her dream, and shifting lines after they said 3 hours it take to leave her territory. They were reaching it before BM Pirates were blocking their path though. It's there in chapters, man.

I read, but your not seeing it on your end. Let's just agree to disagree since this doesn't seems to be going anywhere. Though still escape from BM and territory thanks to the cake in the end which no one can denied no matter how they feel about the arc. Also where she caught back up? She didn't as when she came, they were already gone. She only caught up the Sun Pirates and Germa who were holding up BM Pirates from chasing them too.

If you truly mean that, please show it as a Sanji fan. Don't give up on the character over something you dislike about despite Canon logic to it and sense.

Let's end the discussion here and discuss more on what will happen next chapter please.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Why quote when you said it in past posts that we all seen? If she wasn't, why she didn't catch up to them right away? The purpose of the cake was to slow her down. If it didn't, why didn't she catch up to them? Meaning it did and she did sleep for hours to give them time to escape.

You can see in shifting lines on pages of time passing. Oda been using stuff like that to show time has passed. Same thing for this situation just the same too. All points shows that cake did knock her out and she didn't respond right away on going after them. If she did, she would have gotten them, but it shows her laying on her back, mumbling about her dream, and shifting lines after they said 3 hours it take to leave her territory. They were reaching it before BM Pirates were blocking their path though. It's there in chapters, man.

I read, but your not seeing it on your end. Let's just agree to disagree since this doesn't seems to be going anywhere. Though still escape from BM and territory thanks to the cake in the end which no one can denied no matter how they feel about the arc. Also where she caught back up? She didn't as when she came, they were already gone. She only caught up the Sun Pirates and Germa who were holding up BM Pirates from chasing them too.

If you truly mean that, please show it as a Sanji fan. Don't give up on the character over something you dislike about despite Canon logic to it and sense.

Let's end the discussion here and discuss more on what will happen next chapter please.

Well newsflash! I'm a Strawhats fan not a Sanji fanboy.
I like everyone of them and I'm ready to either praise or bash on any of them depending on their actions and activities in the story.

The same way I feel about Luffy getting oneshot by Kaido is the same way I feel with Sanji baking for BM.

As I feel proud of Luffy taking down Katakuri, I'll also feel proud in seeing Sanji takedown Pageone.

Wano better keep giving is all I can say.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2019 ---

Why quote when you said it in past posts that we all seen?

But for the sake of respect and keeping on topic. I hereby rest my case.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019 ---

My point was that Sanji did succeed in at least rendering Big Mom immobile for a while until Perospero brought her back to reality. If not for that, she would have still been out of the fight. Are you agreeing with this?

Yep.
You seem to comprehend things well so props for that.

 

[King Moe]

Well newsflash! I'm a Strawhats fan not a Sanji fanboy.
I like everyone of them and I'm ready to either praise or bash on any of them depending on their actions and activities in the story.

The same way I feel about Luffy getting oneshot by Kaido is the same way I feel with Sanji baking for BM.

As I feel proud of Luffy taking down Katakuri, I'll also feel proud in seeing Sanji takedown Pageone.

Wano better keep giving is all I can say.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2019 ---

But for the sake of respect and keeping on topic. I hereby rest my case.

Same here, but we still need to show fairness on characters when it's actually legit than going with a scenario in our mind that think it would workout when it wouldn't.

You were upset on Luffy getting one-shot by Kaido? Why's that?

Then I hold you to it when it happens then.

It's still early a bit, but already it's getting the drive of it's fights more.

Same here. Let's end this talk here then.