Onigumo having weird transformations doesn't necessarily take away from the fact that he's still a legit zoan. It's just how Oda envisioned a spider-spider fruit user.
No it doesn't. Because There are two different hybrid forms of his. You can look it up on the wiki. One form, just the hair transforms into six spider limbs. In the other he grows a spider like abdomen in addition to the hair limbs, but retains his human legs. So both forms clearly are hybrids. And having two hybrid forms is impossible under normal circumstances. Chopper could do via Rumble Ball, and after the timeskip can now do so without, but it is far from normal.
I just pointed out that there are too many limbs since we only see the abdomen form from the back, so one could have argued it is his full transformation, but it can't be, because there are too many legs.
I get that you somehow want Choppers fruit to be special. Despite no one ever calling it special. Tamago's fruit was called special, same as Katakuri's. Or all the mythical Zoan, and the Ancient ones. Choppers never.
Point is just a name, jeez...
Did Whitebeard name his quake punch Gura-Gura-Pistol because it is a punch? That logic makes no sense
Choppers fruit is used as the textbook example to explain how Zoans work. At this point in time only two Zoans had been introduced, Daltons and Choppers, and Chopper was used as the textbook example.
Chopper explained how he gained his additional forms, via science, so these forms aren't natural but apparently his own creations. After the timeskip he dropped Arm Point and Jump point to create Kun-Fu Point. These forms are not natural. Choppers natural forms didn't change much. Heavy point is more buff and Walk point is grown out. Both can be attributed to excercise or aging.
And to name one, Onigumo, who has a human form, two hybrids and he must have a full transformation as well. That's 4 forms somehow.
This clearly shows the abdomen of the spider. And that disappears away in his normal form. So while there's still a possibility to debate him having a smile, i see the nature of the fruit (an arachnid instead of a tetrapod) as a possible option as well so will skip the debate for now.
There's barely any possibility. So he has an abdomen of a spider, that's normal. Not like he has a spider face on his stomach. Nothing hints at him being a SMILE especially with the ability to transform.
SMILE that have the option to transform have Black Horns which means they can still somewhat maintain a human form.
SMILE users without horns are deformed and have their SMILE Powers always active in odd forms such as an Elephant trunk on Old maid's chest.
There's nothing consistent about SMILE relating to Onigumo.
More so, Caesar created SMILE. Caesar is on the run from the WG. He wouldn't be able to do deals with them. If the WG were to have SMILE users, it'd likely be non-elites and Vice Admirals are elites.
Choppers fruit is used as the textbook example to explain how Zoans work. At this point in time only two Zoans had been introduced, Daltons and Choppers, and Chopper was used as the textbook example.
Point is his forms changed drastically and that's not just growth. He went from having 5 digits to 2 claws. That's not growth, that's a complete change.
He went from having a muscular form in Horn Point to having a very tiny form. That's a complete change.
He discovered these forms by altering the wavelenghts of his df. After the timeskip, he can do it without drugs, and he even altered and removed some. Which makes me think "Discovery" is meant in an experimental sense and not an explorarive. There are probably dozens of wavelength alterations with a variety of results. Chopper had found 4, but neither post-ts horn point nor Kung-fu point match his previous set, and guard points für generation was turned to 9000.
That's your headcannon.
Heavy point, Brain point and walk point are not the same as other Zoan transformations.
His Horn Point is anthropomorphic, does that make it "hybrid"? No.
In the very chapter that you posted your image from, Chopper is used as the textbook example to explain Zoans for us readers. This page precisely refers to his forms as Beast, Human and Hybrid. All other Zoans follow precisely this pattern.
It is your headcanon that that Choppers three forms are anything else because that is never mentioned at all and you made this entirely up.
Gorgon sisters have forked tongues like snakes. They didn't have these prior to their DFs.
Some Zoan abilities permanently alter appearances. It means nothing.
Onigumo only has 1 hybrid form that we've seen.
Would be like calling the Gorgon sister's base form hybrid just because of the forked tongue.
Except that the Gorgons tongues are always there, while Onigumo clearly transforms his hair.
But now that you called it, actually there is an ability to control your hair, which Kumadori and one of the Gorgons used. That should have been your argument when bringing up the Gorgons. But I beat you to it, sorry.
You've taken it out of context.
He assumed he was a Reindeer-man when in fact, he's not, so Chessmarimo was wrong.
He assumed that Chopper was a "3 type transformation zoan" when he's not.
Repeating oneself doesn't make it any better. The image shows Chopper and not Dalton.
Irrelevant.
Point is his forms changed drastically and that's not just growth. He went from having 5 digits to 2 claws. That's not growth, that's a complete change.
He went from having a muscular form in Horn Point to having a very tiny form. That's a complete change.
Irrelevant.
And btw Arm Point is the Muscular Form. And I don't think Horn Point post ts is tiny either.
I mean pre ts the defining feature were great stag antlers and post timeskip the antlers look like a beetles but you point out two things that aren't really in any field of relevancy. Who knows which of the two versions has more muscle mass or which is larger. Chopper became a full on mascot post - ts instead of a mascot transforming into a monster.
But anyways, I'm outta here. You can't win over me, same as I can't win over you. You should have learned that by now. This is pointless and tiresome.
Alright, i said myself in that post and other posts why Onigumo is not a smile user. So while i am already convinced, i am gonna continue to make the opposite arugment now...
Exactly, the deformity is not consistent. So Unigumo is actually bald, but his deformity allows spiders on his head, which is why it appears that he is using his hair to act as spider limbs..... its just a makeshift wig.
More so, Caesar created SMILE. Caesar is on the run from the WG. He wouldn't be able to do deals with them. If the WG were to have SMILE users, it'd likely be non-elites and Vice Admirals are elites.
Yes, he is on the run because he promised a perfect devil fruit, but gave a defective one to Unigumo..... Even Caesar grew white horns on himself to further piss off Unogumo..
He discovered these forms by altering the wavelenghts of his df. After the timeskip, he can do it without drugs, and he even altered and removed some. Which makes me think "Discovery" is meant in an experimental sense and not an explorarive. There are probably dozens of wavelength alterations with a variety of results. Chopper had found 4, but neither post-ts horn point nor Kung-fu point match his previous set, and guard points für generation was turned to 9000.
In the very chapter that you posted your image from, Chopper is used as the textbook example to explain Zoans for us readers. This page precisely refers to his forms as Beast, Human and Hybrid. All other Zoans follow precisely this pattern.
But now that you called it, actually there is an ability to control your hair, which Kumadori and one of the Gorgons used. That should have been your argument when bringing up the Gorgons. But I beat you to it, sorry.
Nope, it doesn't, it explains the transformations of normal Zoans.
Maybe if you read the Japanese translations which define what Point means, you'd know what you're talking about.
Point means Strengthening.
Walking Point = Walking Strengthening - Normal Zoans don't have any "strengthening specific forms".
Brain Point = Intellect Strengthening - Normal Zoans don't have any "strengthening specific forms".
Heavy Point = Weight Strengthening- Normal Zoans don't have any "strengthening specific forms".
Your point is moot given the evidence here.
Every normal Zoan doesn't have "Strengthening forms" for a specific skill.. they only have Hybrid and beast forms. This is a fact you can't really dispute.
Which is why one needs the ability to read in context.
If you read in context, it shows Chess is assuming Chopper's forms and even thinks he's a Human initially until Chopper tells him otherwise. He was totally incorrect about his assessment regarding Chopper if you actually read the dialogue.
You think I said they have the option to transform their horns when I actually said.... they have the option to transform into their Zoan powers IF they have the Black Horns as is seemingly the case.
It has nothing to do with hiding or transforming horns, that's impossible given the evidence.
Most SMILE either have horns or don't. Not a matter of choosing to hide it.
So, your argument here is since he doesn't have horns, he could still be a SMILE, but that argument is still flawed because the rest of the evidence doesn't follow with the idea.
Exactly, the deformity is not consistent. So Unigumo is actually bald, but his deformity allows spiders on his head, which is why it appears that he is using his hair to act as spider limbs..... its just a makeshift wig.
Yes, he is on the run because he promised a perfect devil fruit, but gave a defective one to Unigumo..... Even Caesar grew white horns on himself to further piss off Unogumo..
Nope, he's on the run because he committed a crime on Punk Hazard. We learnt this during the Punk Hazard arc. You're making up stories just to back up your claims at this point. Like I said, contrivance.
So my copy of the Blue databook has Chopper's three forms as the textbook example for Zoans and also says that he created his forms with his medical knowledge.
Chopper's fruits is a normal Zoan. Nowhere was it said otherwise.
So my copy of the Blue databook has Chopper's three forms as the textbook example for Zoans and also says that he created his forms with his medical knowledge.
Chopper's fruits is a normal Zoan. Nowhere was it said otherwise.
We know his medicine has influence. Still doesn't mean his ability doesn't stand out from the rest which is a fact.
No other Zoan has strengthening forms for specific skills.
Even his base forms are specific to certain skills like weight, strength and intellect which is unlike any other Zoan whose form is not specified to any other than being hybrid or beast.
this is what i said btw, allow me to expand why i concluded that Onigumo doesnt have to be a DF user.... or in other words, i will have you debate this further when its already been closed..
i was going from the tetrapod thing, where even in their DF ability, they have only 4 limbs and not more. I thought the story has shown zoan forms with 4 limbs always, and never additional, until a smile came along...
Looking at all the zoans, Dalton, Chopper, Pell (i only did basic search but he has wings on his hands, not 4 limbs and wings but i could be wrong, Chaka, Lucci, all of them always have 4 limbs. And in all these aspects, the zoan ability always overlaps the user's body. That is why we dont see Rob Lucci grow more arms and attack Luffy, or Chopper have human arms coming out in his reindeer form, or walking point. So when we saw a Smile user exhibit a wolf's head, or in Sheepshead's case, horns in places of hands, i dont see it as a necessary defect, but rather a powerup. This is why, i thought Onigumo was originally a smile user(yes i dont anymore!!!!). The thinking was that when consumed a spider DF ability, Onigumo must have his original arms replaced with spider arms, but we see none of that, we see him hold 8 blades in his arms.
Looking back, we do see Pell with 6 limbs, we saw Pierre with 6 limbs, which suggests that zoans can actually do that, and bodily replacements is not a condition zoans have to meet. That itself throws Onigumo smile theory out the window.
I have literally typed the entire lifeline of my theory here and if you still want to argue on this theory, i will. But just like my previous post, i will not be serious on that one.....
I wonder if we've already been given the name of the Rocks/Locks pirate crew's captain. John Locks sounds like a good pirate name. Maybe he left a phenomenal treasure and that's the one Buggy has been obsessively after? Could it be? Just a thought.
