One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

Strongest Under the Sun
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
27,709
Reaction score
27,506
Gender
Male
Country
United Kingdom
Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Robin, Brook, and Franky, I think, are equal in strength, but are extremely specialized. More so than the other crew members. If we include Carrot, she probably tops all of them. We'll have to see Post Wano.

Weak Trio? Zeus allows Nami to top the three. She also has another aspect of her Climatact that Usopp couldn't figure out and Zeus may be the missing piece, so she's a ticking time bomb of growth currently.

Chopper is physically the strongest...but that's it. I think Nami could take him with Zeus. I'm assuming he'll get a "true" awakening, since his current Monster Form is the result of his drugs.

Usopp has haki, but not much else going for him honestly. In a straight up fight, he'll lose to the other 2, imo.
 

hokageji

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
4,976
Reaction score
3,744
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Lets make this list based on how all these opponents would fair against a common opponent... I'll say for now a Pacifista. for the top 4... ranking them based on that... cos if we were to treat this like a PVP ladder, it'll be unfair..
Luffy
Jinbei
Zoro >= Sanji

FOr the rest, they'll fight grandline marines like Hina or similarly ranked
Franky
Brooks
Chopper
Ussop
Nami

I see both, Usop and Nami has utility fighters, basically who are way more efficient in aiding in battles than one on one... So in a scenario where strawhats have to fihgt 100 people, Usop and Nami would be way more useful than they would be in a one on one...
 

Pirate Queen

Registered User
九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000!
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
9,680
Reaction score
17,737
Country
United States
Lets make this list based on how all these opponents would fair against a common opponent... I'll say for now a Pacifista. for the top 4... ranking them based on that... cos if we were to treat this like a PVP ladder, it'll be unfair..
Luffy
Jinbei
Zoro >= Sanji

FOr the rest, they'll fight grandline marines like Hina or similarly ranked
Franky
Brooks
Chopper
Ussop
Nami

I see both, Usop and Nami has utility fighters, basically who are way more efficient in aiding in battles than one on one... So in a scenario where strawhats have to fihgt 100 people, Usop and Nami would be way more useful than they would be in a one on one...
What about Robin?
 

McNuss

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
2,436
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Robin was never stronger than Sanji. Robin's power allowed her to beat characters easily because they had no defense against it, including Zoro. One clutch and she could debilitate a character.
But this is exactly what strenght is all about, having the power to beat others.

The static trio is basically manga canon. Even as recently as Dressrosa, Sanji acts as the defacto leader of the crew going to Zou. The "Swirly Brow crew", and Luffy trusts him to attack Big Mom's ship, and when the rest of the SH's arrive and see the devestation, it's Zoro who says "Swirly brow wouldn't let anything happen to them".
That doesn't make them a trio equal on power.

It is also Zoro who is really disappointed in Sanji for going away.

Robin's power is great, and I wish Oda wrote fights for her and every SH. But she was never actually stronger than Sanji or Zoro. Just had a better fruit that would make her beat them early on (both of them, not just Sanji).
But that's stretching it. If she has a stronger power, she is stronger.
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
Robin, Brook, and Franky, I think, are equal in strength, but are extremely specialized. More so than the other crew members. If we include Carrot, she probably tops all of them. We'll have to see Post Wano.

Weak Trio? Zeus allows Nami to top the three. She also has another aspect of her Climatact that Usopp couldn't figure out and Zeus may be the missing piece, so she's a ticking time bomb of growth currently.

Chopper is physically the strongest...but that's it. I think Nami could take him with Zeus. I'm assuming he'll get a "true" awakening, since his current Monster Form is the result of his drugs.

Usopp has haki, but not much else going for him honestly. In a straight up fight, he'll lose to the other 2, imo.
I don't know if she can top Chopper though, given Chopper should have defenses against that? Would she be able to hit either with Zeus?

Chopper can also switch into brain mode, defense mode, and I think speed mode, so he's more versatile. Usopp however has long range attacks so he can distract and hide and use trickery and his arsenal to do variety of stuff like he did against Luffy, Sugar, and Perona.
 

McNuss

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
2,436
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
I don't know if she can top Chopper though, given Chopper should have defenses against that? Would she be able to hit either with Zeus?

Chopper can also switch into brain mode, defense mode, and I think speed mode, so he's more versatile. Usopp however has long range attacks so he can distract and hide and use trickery and his arsenal to do variety of stuff like he did against Luffy, Sugar, and Perona.
Nami definitely outclasses both Chopper and Usopp. Glass cannon or not, the level of destructive power is just too large.

End of the day, you win fights by knocking out opponents and neither Chopper nor Usopp have the power to knock out a dozen Yonko executives at once. In fact, I'd say it is precisely this power that they are lacking.

Their physical stats are larger but all three characters are at such a low level that it becomes redundant, they can't fight on their own for days and attacks from a top tier will knock any of them out.
 

Fox666

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
7,007
Reaction score
4,650
Country
Galactic Empire
Robin also just outclassed Sanji in the following Skypea Arc, where she kicks ass and Sanji doesn't.
Sanji knocked down Satori, who was one of Enel's four priests. Robin defeated Yama, who was just a soldier.

At first I thought Robin was quite strong, but in retrospective it was because she barely had any fight.
 

nik87

Banned
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3,348
Country
The Wall
At first I thought Robin was quite strong
She is strong. Her ability is hard to deal with so Oda keeps her out of fights otherwise he has to show strong people falling to Robin...
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
Nami definitely outclasses both Chopper and Usopp. Glass cannon or not, the level of destructive power is just too large.

End of the day, you win fights by knocking out opponents and neither Chopper nor Usopp have the power to knock out a dozen Yonko executives at once. In fact, I'd say it is precisely this power that they are lacking.

Their physical stats are larger but all three characters are at such a low level that it becomes redundant, they can't fight on their own for days and attacks from a top tier will knock any of them out.
personally, I think we should wait and see as we have two or three instances of Zeus doing damage, and mostly to Big Mom.
 

Fox666

Registered User
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
7,007
Reaction score
4,650
Country
Galactic Empire
She is strong. Her ability is hard to deal with so Oda keeps her out of fights otherwise he has to show strong people falling to Robin...
More like female characters don't do much in the manga...
 

nik87

Banned
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3,348
Country
The Wall
More like female characters don't do much in the manga...
Well, true...
However, realistically speaking, her ability is just broken. Give her CoA and she can easily be a YC2 instead of Smoothie.
 

thedude

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
3,045
Gender
Male
Country
United States
But this is exactly what strenght is all about, having the power to beat others.

That doesn't make them a trio equal on power.

It is also Zoro who is really disappointed in Sanji for going away.

But that's stretching it. If she has a stronger power, she is stronger.
Is Foxy (Foxy pirates crew) stronger than them? His power is crazy strong. But other than that one power, he is incredibly weak.

Honestly, now that we know her fake arms are only as strong as her real arms, I think Robin's toying with the SH's was more catching them off guard, and Luffy, Zoro and Sanji would be able to overpower her moves like clutch.

So many people have stronger powers than Luffy. Luffy is still stronger than them because of all aspects of his strength.

As for the static trio, i didn't say it made them the same power level. I'm on record as saying Luffy > Zoro >= Sanji. (Zoro stronger, but not by much). It's been static in that this trio, in that order, has remained since Sanji joined the crew. Even when Robin joined, Sanji and Zoro fought together in the Foxy pirate battle against the strongest crew members. they then fought the strongest members of CP9 (after Lucci of course). There has never been an instant where they weren't 2/3 in power, until right now, and I suspect that they'll both be stronger than Jinbe or equal to him by the end of Wano.

Zoro being disappointed in Sanji for leaving doesn't say anything about their power levels. It says something about his view of leaving the crew. But like I said, Zoro's the one who said not to worry about the crew, Sanji was with them. When Luffy says he's going after Sanji because he's as strong as 1,000 men, Zoro sulks and says then he is worth 10,000. Their strength rivalry is there, Oda writes it in all the time, still to this day. When they are coming back from WCI, Sanji's new bounty is referenced explicitly in relation to Zoro's, as he childishly crows about having a higher one now.

I don't know what more to say on this topic. Oda isn't even remotely subtle about it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I think Usop vs Nami would be a stalemate. They are both creative fighters who think on their feet. I'm hoping they get physically stronger, CoA haki is necessary. Usops showing vs Trebol was not good at all. I think his dad is more of a frontline fighter, so Usop will have to improve to match him in the future. I'd like to see Nami learn haki so she could use her staff as a weapon as well, like Vergo, but obviously she'll never be as strong as him. Just so they all have something else in their arsenals.
 
Last edited:

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
I don't know if she can top Chopper though, given Chopper should have defenses against that? Would she be able to hit either with Zeus?

Chopper can also switch into brain mode, defense mode, and I think speed mode, so he's more versatile. Usopp however has long range attacks so he can distract and hide and use trickery and his arsenal to do variety of stuff like he did against Luffy, Sugar, and Perona.
I don't really think so. Chopper's Guard Point has been shown to be effective against strong blunt attacks like the Kraken's and a weakened Big Mom's attacks, but I don't think it's survive against Zeus. That fur might not react well to lightning.

Brain Point is regular Chopper, who certainly hasn't been shown to be that intelligent post time skip. At least, not on the level of Nami when it comes to general things. Speed is debatable, I'll give you that, but for the most part, I don't see him being that much more versatile than Nami. She has her illusions, her Milky Cloud techniques, and various wind moves. The latter two probably wouldn't do much, but a combo of her illusions and Zeus would end Chopper I think.

As for Usopp, I'm a bit iffy on him. I'm still waiting for him to be as determined as he was during his fight against Luffy. I hope he gets a fight like that in Wano. Currently though? Pop Greens are tricky and his marksmanship is prodigous, but he hasn't done anything to make me really think he could defeat Nami as she is right now. He'll see through her illusions, but eh...that's about it.
 

hokageji

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
4,976
Reaction score
3,744
Gender
Male
Country
United States
What about Robin?
Lol, how did i miss that... Robin is harder to rank.

Against Pacifista, she's shown below as well, stomping the head from blasting a laser. Also in regards to fighting mass number of people, she's really strong. She would be higher than Franky on my list.
 

M3J

MH Senpai
神のごとし / Kami no Gotoshi / Godlike
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
48,828
Reaction score
17,292
Gender
Male
Country
Akatsuki
I don't really think so. Chopper's Guard Point has been shown to be effective against strong blunt attacks like the Kraken's and a weakened Big Mom's attacks, but I don't think it's survive against Zeus. That fur might not react well to lightning.

Brain Point is regular Chopper, who certainly hasn't been shown to be that intelligent post time skip. At least, not on the level of Nami when it comes to general things. Speed is debatable, I'll give you that, but for the most part, I don't see him being that much more versatile than Nami. She has her illusions, her Milky Cloud techniques, and various wind moves. The latter two probably wouldn't do much, but a combo of her illusions and Zeus would end Chopper I think.

As for Usopp, I'm a bit iffy on him. I'm still waiting for him to be as determined as he was during his fight against Luffy. I hope he gets a fight like that in Wano. Currently though? Pop Greens are tricky and his marksmanship is prodigous, but he hasn't done anything to make me really think he could defeat Nami as she is right now. He'll see through her illusions, but eh...that's about it.
Nami can definitely find a way to use the static electricity created by the fur to make sure Zeus hits Chopper at all times, so the fur would be detrimental unless it can protect against the lightning.

If it was, then why'd he make a note to say he has to go into brain point? I think it enhances his intelligence and focus above norm. If we were to go with versatility though, I'm not sure who's more versatile due to various forms Chopper has, but Nami's versatility would seem to be more advantageous like illusions, unless Chopper can sniff her out.

Usopp's distance would probably be the only thing that gives him an advantage, IMO, if not one of the few things.
 

McNuss

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
2,436
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Is Foxy (Foxy pirates crew) stronger than them? His power is crazy strong. But other than that one power, he is incredibly weak.
Foxy cheated by setting the stage to his ship, full of traps that someone like Luffy could fall for.

Foxy is certainly stronger than his bounty suggests, possibly stronger than Pre-Skip Bellamy, but I don't really see him get a much different fate had he faced Luffy on a plain space. In fact it is questionable wether the traps would have affected anyone as much as they did Luffy.

Other than that, I don't see how anyone in the Foxy Pirates could cause any trouble to the Strawhats.

Honestly, now that we know her fake arms are only as strong as her real arms, I think Robin's toying with the SH's was more catching them off guard, and Luffy, Zoro and Sanji would be able to overpower her moves like clutch.
The fruit gives her just much more power than Sanji has at that time. It is incredibly unlikely that Sanji could have one-shotted Pell at that stage, yes he would likely win but not as fast.

Sanji can't perform feats like Cien Fleurs Delphinium, and he also can't cut steel or the Giant Jack like Zoro. Sanji just isn't that impressive before Enies Lobby.

So many people have stronger powers than Luffy. Luffy is still stronger th them because of all aspects of his strength.
Yeah but what does this prove?

As for the static trio, i didn't say it made them the same power level. I'm on record as saying Luffy > Zoro >= Sanji. (Zoro stronger, but not by much). It's been static in that this trio, in that order, has remained since Sanji joined the crew. Even when Robin joined, Sanji and Zoro fought together in the Foxy pirate battle against the strongest crew members. they then fought the strongest members of CP9 (after Lucci of course). There has never been an instant where they weren't 2/3 in power, until right now, and I suspect that they'll both be stronger than Jinbe or equal to him by the end of Wano.
Sanji would need Super Sayan to catch up with Jinbe.

Jinbe's feats are just too good. He has among the best vs Yonko and vs Admiral feats in the series. Right now he is definitely above Zoro as well.

I honestly don't think having the LZS power trio or not has any impact on the plot. It simply doesn't matter and does not make the story any better or worse. It also has no impact on the rivalry between Zoro and Sanji.

Zoro being disappointed in Sanji for leaving doesn't say anything about their power levels. It says something about his view of leaving the crew. But like I said, Zoro's the one who said not to worry about the crew, Sanji was with them. When Luffy says he's going after Sanji because he's as strong as 1,000 men, Zoro sulks and says then he is worth 10,000. Their strength rivalry is there, Oda writes it in all the time, still to this day. When they are coming back from WCI, Sanji's new bounty is referenced explicitly in relation to Zoro's, as he childishly crows about having a higher one now.
A rivalry based on conflicting personalities does not make them equals in terms of strenght.

I don't know what more to say on this topic. Oda isn't even remotely subtle about it.
The question is, not subtle with what? That Zoro and Sanji have a rivalry? Yes, that's pretty obvious. That Zoro and Sanji are both strong? That's pretty obvious, too. That Zoro and Sanji are about equal in strenght? That is never strongly implied in the Manga, quite the opposite. The only comparable feat is defeating opponents of equal strenght during Enies Lobby, but Oda showed undeniably that Zoro is much stronger during Thriller Bark.

I think Usop vs Nami would be a stalemate. They are both creative fighters who think on their feet. I'm hoping they get physically stronger, CoA haki is necessary. Usops showing vs Trebol was not good at all. I think his dad is more of a frontline fighter, so Usop will have to improve to match him in the future. I'd like to see Nami learn haki so she could use her staff as a weapon as well, like Vergo, but obviously she'll never be as strong as him. Just so they all have something else in their arsenals.
Yeah I also can't say who would win between Nami and Usopp, but Chopper would beat them both.

However overall I think Nami can be currently considered the strongest, simply because her destructive power is on another level. Usopp couldn't knock out that many Charlotte Children (who are all probably stronger then Lola/Chiffon who are both already quite tough) at once.

Chopper could brawl with them for a while and likely knock some of them out but end of the day they would outnumber him.

However I think all three are currently fine in terms of power-scaling. If the endgame is Augur/Q/Devon, I can definitely see this happening.

Let's not discuss Sanji/Zoro too much. Comparing them with Robin is kinda interesting but comparing them with each other, I think we had enough of that :)
 

thedude

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,256
Reaction score
3,045
Gender
Male
Country
United States
You may be bored, but their strength rivalry is baked into the manga. Zoro fights Mr 1, Sanji fights Mr 2. Zoro fights Kaku, Sanji fights Jabra (who the manga shows area equal strength). Sanji fights Absalom, Zoro fights Zombie Ryuma. Right after the time skip, they enter the scene together, and then kill a Pacifista together, each potentially one shotting it. They have similar bounties.

Everything in the story says they are roughly equal in strength, with Zoro probably being slightly stronger. Nothing points to a large gap. And that's all there is to it. I can only point to the actual manga which is pretty clear in this.

I think the weakling trio fight would be interesting. Could Chopper overcome the tricks of Usop and Nami? He is definitly the powerhouse of the 3. Franky and Brook are above those 2, as is Robin. I hope we get something that shows where they each are power wise during this arc.
 

Aki1991

Registered User
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
713
Reaction score
769
Gender
Male
Country
Greece
Rereading one piece again. It's obvious that Sanji is weaker than Zoro power wise. But it was shown that he is way more intelligent than Zoro. Each SH brings something else to the group. Zoro brings only power, so he has to be strong. Sanji on the other hand is strong, but he is a cook and a strategic member also. Don't forget his help as Mr. Prince or when he was entering the train alone in Enies Lobby. I love both but Zoro is a little bit stronger than him.

Luffy has an amazing crew. Power is not everything. He has Robin and Franky in his crew who are both the best in the world in what they are capable to do.

However, in the future we will have 3 YC in Jinbei, Zoro and Sanji.
 

McNuss

Registered User
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
2,995
Reaction score
2,436
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
You may be bored, but their strength rivalry is baked into the manga. Zoro fights Mr 1, Sanji fights Mr 2. Zoro fights Kaku, Sanji fights Jabra (who the manga shows area equal strength). Sanji fights Absalom, Zoro fights Zombie Ryuma. Right after the time skip, they enter the scene together, and then kill a Pacifista together, each potentially one shotting it. They have similar bounties
But Mr 2 is leagues weaker than Mr. 1. Bounty isn't strenght but Mr. 1 is worth twice as much, that's too much to be neglectible.

Absalom and Zombie Ryuma were both low-diff for Zoro/Sanji. In the same arc, Zoro takes all of Luffy's pain on top of his own, while Sanji gets knocked out by a jab to the side with a swordhilt.

Their bounties have never been comparable up till now, where Zoro just could not get a bounty due to not being part of the incident. Zoro was always far ahead of Sanji up til recently and is also part of the Worst Generation, which Sanji isn't.

People like Pavlik have one-shot a Pacifista with a gun. It is pretty much worthless as soon as you are a Haki user. Just because Zoro and Sanji can low-diff something doesn't mean that they are equal.

Their rivalry is actually a Vicky the Viking reference, so even the source of it has nothing to with strenght.

Everything in the story says they are roughly equal in strength, with Zoro probably being slightly stronger. Nothing points to a large gap. And that's all there is to it. I can only point to the actual manga which is pretty clear in this.
Zoro frequently performs strenght related feats that Sanji just cannot perform. That creates the gap between them.

Sanji isn't capable of fighting with his torso ripped open, he isn't capable of cutting steel, he can't lose dozens of litres of blood, he couldn't have destroyed the Giant Jack and cannot take his captain's damage from a Shishibukai fight on top of his own. He just can't and claiming that he can is stretching it.

This does not make Sanji a worse character, quite the opposite.
 

HereNThere

Alive Ain't Always Livin'
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Mangahelper
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
8,382
Reaction score
12,171
Gender
Male
Country
United States
If it was, then why'd he make a note to say he has to go into brain point? I think it enhances his intelligence and focus above norm. If we were to go with versatility though, I'm not sure who's more versatile due to various forms Chopper has, but Nami's versatility would seem to be more advantageous like illusions, unless Chopper can sniff her out.
I'm not entirely sure either. I may be wrong, but I always assumed his hybrid form was Brain Point. His Reindeer form is always referred to as Walk Point and his human form is Heavy Point.
 
Top