One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

what are we talking about? A fantasy fight of Mihawk vs Kaido? I still vote Kaido in a high diff fight.

Aside from that Mihawk would have to go through Kaido’s crew in order to get to him. That’s a heavy loss there for Mihawk...way too many strong opponents that would tire him

The way king and queen are looking I wouldn't call them strong...

 

[XXGenesis]

The way king and queen are looking I wouldn't call them strong...

I wouldn’t call you subjective but Hey....

 

[LadyVados]

I wouldn’t call you subjective but Hey....

I meant the way they are looking right now

 

[XXGenesis]

Perspectives is being flawed because another character in their lv is stalling the both of them. Such a scenario is by no means drastic or outlier; it’s very plausible. Same way Appo for a time fought against Zoro & Luffy then. Zoro & XDrake and managed to hold them off .

What I can’t really seem to comprehend or understand with suspended belief is the knowledge of Haki...

Hear me out, Haki is said to be used throughout the NW, with many of the Islands & countries there combatants already knowing some form of principle about Haki. The Marines VA & above know Haki & of its principles. Also Haki usage or study isn’t reliant on power, as Boa Sisters knew Ryo Haki......But why is Ryo uncommon to Kaido???

If Luffy & his crew really just that lucky to have learnt every aspect of Haki and get the chance to train and develop it; While Yonkou’s with decades in have never learnt or found usage for such skills??! How can that be the case when other weaker characters, that know Haki can use this aspect of flow Haki even if not in the scale such as Luffy or Oden.

I can understand Mantra & it’s principles being exclusive to skypedia similar to Ryo for Wano; These are Haki skills named under something else because of the Countries isolated nature.

Haki isn’t so isolated. Same as with the Worst Generation, doesn’t one either develop some form of Haki or encounter combat where you are being either deterred or out skill by Haki, to then seek out answers, & then attain those skills...just puzzled as to why Flow Haki is so unseen by Kaido

 

[albertwv]

People still doubt Kaido is the strongest above all in the current OP timeline?? Even after the author himself has stated it so many times

 

[Fox666]

This is my current tier list

Note that it doesn't include the power-ups that Luffy and the others received in Wano. I don't see the point in guessing it before the battle is over.

Spoiler

 

[I Am Atomic]

This is my current tier list

Note that it doesn't include the power-ups that Luffy and the others received in Wano. I don't see the point in guessing it before the battle is over.

Spoiler

Kinemon can't be that low. He knows haki and should be New World level easily

 

[Critical mindset]

This follows from three pieces of corroborative evidence.

(1) No plasma discharge

There is no electrical arc being generated from the attack onto BM like there clearly is against Vergo.

Which as you see there is a corona discharge enveloping around Vergo indicating that Law is generating a greater electrical potential resulting from the greater electrical energy/output.

The greater electrical current makes the air highly ionic and charged the creates the glow of plasma that we’re seeing in Vergo’s case but not in the other instances.

BM does not feature this aspect of the attack yet it prompts her to scream at the top of her lungs in agony.

2) The sfx is different in BM’s case

BM is different from all these cases in that she does not feature the same sfx. All but in BMs case the sfx is the same.

In Doflamingo’s case his internal repairing ability renders the attack less effective. Law could not generate the same discharge of plasma presumably because he only had one arm at the time, and so his attack output was limited even though he had every bit of intent to maximise on the attack at that point.

(3) No exclamation marks

Even though BM was clearly in agony there were no exclamation marks I’m her panel.

Conclusion

Big Mom endured an attack that’s less lethal than all of the above, let alone the one Vergo powered through without howling in pain. Vergo was pushing Law to maximise his attack, whereas Law at this point seems to have it figured out, is not stressing it in testing out the range and efficacy of his abilities. Second time around he uses countershock it will produce a much greater effect. So in effect: the weakest countershock to date was shown in chapter 1003 against Big Mom of all people

There is simply a different make up of the body and mind that characterises Vergo. That much is becoming clearer for each chapter.

Pump Palace (Bonus Track)

The Pump Palace theme in our RGP deadnet. :D Enjoy!

soundcloud.app.goo.gl

 

[Fox666]

Kinemon can't be that low. He knows haki and should be New World level easily

It's a bit hard to tell, but this is how he reacted to Zoro cutting Pica:

 

[Nie Li]

This follows from three pieces of corroborative evidence.

(1) No plasma discharge

There is no electrical arc being generated from the attack onto BM like there clearly is against Vergo.

Which as you see there is a corona discharge enveloping around Vergo indicating that Law is generating a greater electrical potential resulting from the greater electrical energy/output.

The greater electrical current makes the air highly ionic and charged the creates the glow of plasma that we’re seeing in Vergo’s case but not in the other instances.

BM does not feature this aspect of the attack yet it prompts her to scream at the top of her lungs in agony.

2) The sfx is different in BM’s case

BM is different from all these cases in that she does not feature the same sfx. All but in BMs case the sfx is the same.

In Doflamingo’s case his internal repairing ability renders the attack less effective. Law could not generate the same discharge of plasma presumably because he only had one arm at the time, and so his attack output was limited even though he had every bit of intent to maximise on the attack at that point.

(3) No exclamation marks

Even though BM was clearly in agony there were no exclamation marks I’m her panel.

Conclusion

Big Mom endured an attack that’s less lethal than all of the above, let alone the one Vergo powered through without howling in pain. Vergo was pushing Law to maximise his attack, whereas Law at this point seems to have it figured out, is not stressing it in testing out the range and efficacy of his abilities. Second time around he uses countershock it will produce a much greater effect. So in effect: the weakest countershock to date was shown in chapter 1003 against Big Mom of all people

There is simply a different make up of the body and mind that characterises Vergo. That much is becoming clearer for each chapter.

Pump Palace (Bonus Track)

The Pump Palace theme in our RGP deadnet. :D Enjoy!

soundcloud.app.goo.gl

What is your point exactly? What a confusing post.

The title says "Vergo tanked countershock better than Big Mom", which is straight up a lie because Big Mom is totally uninjured by the technique while Vergo was coughing blood and smoke was coming out of his body.

You rant about the technique Law used being much weaker against Big Mom for... reasons. So is the point of this to try and argue that Law held back against Big Mom? If you were right about that, what would that prove about Vergo tanking it better than Big Mom? You still wouldn't know how Big Mom would tank the power that Vergo took, but you know that whatever voltaic power she tanked, she tanked it much better, so what is the point of this thread really?

Anyway, your points are outright bad. None of them prove that Law's attack on Big Mom was weaker. We know that sometimes characters choose to open up fights with attacks that aren't exactly their strongest techniques. Like Luffy opening the fight with Gear 3 or Mihawk's casual slash against Whitebeard, but right in the middle of a fight to the death against two Yonkous, while your only ally that can really injure them is unconscious and everyone is givint it their all not to die? Why would Law hold back the power of his technique against one of those Yonkous? One who is also known for being a hell of a tank. You'd need arguments much more solid than those you provided to prove that Law used less power on her than he used on the rest of the characters.

About your points.

1) Oda isn't 100% consistent when drawing special effects. No special meaning there.

You also mention here that Big Mom screamed and Vergo didn't? Props to Vergo for enduring pain better. Either that or he couldn't scream because he was being, you know, shocked almost to death, while Big Mom only felt pain.

2) Big Mom's SFX indeeds lacks a tiny symbol at the end, and is otherwise the same. Why does that mean the attack was weaker? The explanation you provided is definitely insufficient.

3) What would there not being exclamation marks even mean?

This should be obvious for anyone who reads manga, but those exclamation marks don't represent power; they're in a speech bubble for a reason. Those exclamation marks represent a character being shocked (not literally) and at a loss of words.

This whole third point is not only senseless, but wrong, because Big Mom does have the exclamations. They're right at the end of her "Aaarrgh" in her speech bubble, as you may notice she's the only one that could scream while the electric current traversed her body.



Another question is: What do you even mean by tank in the first place? Is this really about trying to claim that Vergo is more resilient than Big Mom or is this just all about Vergo being cool-headed? In that case. How does him remaining silent compare to anybody else but Big Mom also remaining silent while electrified? It looks to be the norm.

 

[kkck]

This is my current tier list

Note that it doesn't include the power-ups that Luffy and the others received in Wano. I don't see the point in guessing it before the battle is over.

Spoiler

Gear 2 luffy in the same tier as post time skip franky? I think that's way off, post time skip franky would probably foderize pre time skip luffy in general... I don't think current franky is that high in the pecking order but he is at least above rookie pirates....

 

[I Am Atomic]

It's a bit hard to tell, but this is how he reacted to Zoro cutting Pica:

The screenshot also puts Kanjiro on Kinemon's level? But that isn't the case in your ranking. I am only confused as to why, not here for power level arguments.

 

[M3J]

It's a bit hard to tell, but this is how he reacted to Zoro cutting Pica:

This logic makes no sense. Hasn't Luffy himself been surprised by Zoro doing stuff like cutting a train in half? THe problem isn't limited to just Kinemon's strength, but seeing someone else have the strength to cut through stone. Luffy could punch through and break much harder stuff and still be surprised by Kinemon cutting the same rocks and boulders that Zoro did, for example.

 

[albertwv]

Kinemon is a hard ball since he didnt really show much feats besides fighting Kaido. I think Kinemon is VA Vergo level, and all the 9RS were somehow able to get power up by using Ryo haki to damage Kaido but only for a little bit. Kinemon was shocked that Zolo cut Pica in half, but who wouldnt be. Kinemon had a brief clashed with Doffy and lost but I wouldnt count it agaisnt, even though imo Doffy > Kinemon. He also seems to be the defacto leader of 9RS and maybe the strongest among them, debateble though. Kinemon lost to Law but thats mostly because had no idea of Laws powers, though that shouldnt make it an excuse.

I would put Jozu higher or equal to Vista, but def higher than Ace. Ace doesnt seem that strong in NW veteran terms, he had the potential to be stronger but didnt.

 

[LadyVados]

Apparently the volume release doesn’t have Zoro bloody after the gifters.

 

[Critical mindset]

What is your point exactly? What a confusing post.

The title says "Vergo tanked countershock better than Big Mom", which is straight up a lie because Big Mom is totally uninjured by the technique while Vergo was coughing blood and smoke was coming out of his body.

You rant about the technique Law used being much weaker against Big Mom for... reasons. So is the point of this to try and argue that Law held back against Big Mom? If you were right about that, what would that prove about Vergo tanking it better than Big Mom? You still wouldn't know how Big Mom would tank the power that Vergo took, but you know that whatever voltaic power she tanked, she tanked it much better, so what is the point of this thread really?

Anyway, your points are outright bad. None of them prove that Law's attack on Big Mom was weaker. We know that sometimes characters choose to open up fights with attacks that aren't exactly their strongest techniques. Like Luffy opening the fight with Gear 3 or Mihawk's casual slash against Whitebeard, but right in the middle of a fight to the death against two Yonkous, while your only ally that can really injure them is unconscious and everyone is givint it their all not to die? Why would Law hold back the power of his technique against one of those Yonkous? One who is also known for being a hell of a tank. You'd need arguments much more solid than those you provided to prove that Law used less power on her than he used on the rest of the characters.

About your points.

1) Oda isn't 100% consistent when drawing special effects. No special meaning there.

You also mention here that Big Mom screamed and Vergo didn't? Props to Vergo for enduring pain better. Either that or he couldn't scream because he was being, you know, shocked almost to death, while Big Mom only felt pain.

2) Big Mom's SFX indeeds lacks a tiny symbol at the end, and is otherwise the same. Why does that mean the attack was weaker? The explanation you provided is definitely insufficient.

3) What would there not being exclamation marks even mean?

This should be obvious for anyone who reads manga, but those exclamation marks don't represent power; they're in a speech bubble for a reason. Those exclamation marks represent a character being shocked (not literally) and at a loss of words.

This whole third point is not only senseless, but wrong, because Big Mom does have the exclamations. They're right at the end of her "Aaarrgh" in her speech bubble, as you may notice she's the only one that could scream while the electric current traversed her body.



Another question is: What do you even mean by tank in the first place? Is this really about trying to claim that Vergo is more resilient than Big Mom or is this just all about Vergo being cool-headed? In that case. How does him remaining silent compare to anybody else but Big Mom also remaining silent while electrified? It looks to be the norm.

Its pretty straightforward What Doffy ate was not the same as what Vergo ate. You have sparks going off in Doffy’s case but no plasma enveloping Doffy. Only Vergo has had this so this sets up a precedent for what is the more powerful end of this technique

Only Vergo took this

(2) I don’t know japanese but don’t you think it’s odd BM doesn’t have this last symbol yet her countershock doesn’t feature any plasma discharge? I think the lack of the symbol in her particular case can only mean one thing.

It would mean she took the weakest attack of them all. That is a pretty safe assumption coupled with the lack of exclamation marks and lack of plasma discharge that was highlighted in Vergo’s example

When exclamation marks are in speech bubbles it is meant to highlight either a reaction from the impacted recipient or to signify the severity or impact of the situation.

BM does not have an independent speech bubble outside herself to highlight the gravity or impact.

Ad you said, the fight doesn’t start off with the stronger end techniques but builds up gradually with the stronger end moves to follow.

The chicken is coming home to roost and yo just can’t cope with the fact that you’ve been not at all humble about Vergo and said all kinds of shit over the years that now comes back to fly you in the face

 

[LadyVados]

@Critical mindset As soon as I saw you were watching this thread I thought of asking you whether Vergo > BM but it seems you’ve already started on that

 

[Fox666]

The title says "Vergo tanked countershock better than Big Mom", which is straight up a lie because Big Mom is totally uninjured by the technique while Vergo was coughing blood and smoke was coming out of his body.

Yeah, Vergo was somewhat injured. The only difference is that Vergo is like a robot that barely shows any emotion.

Gear 2 luffy in the same tier as post time skip franky? I think that's way off, post time skip franky would probably foderize pre time skip luffy in general... I don't think current franky is that high in the pecking order but he is at least above rookie pirates....

It appears to me that General Franky is somewhat comparable to a Pacifista.

If that's the case, the monster trio should be able to defeat him with one attack as well, etc.

The screenshot also puts Kanjiro on Kinemon's level? But that isn't the case in your ranking. I am only confused as to why, not here for power level arguments.

Kanjuro was an impostor.

He was capable of holding his own against Kawamatsu, who should have the strength of a Yonko commander.

This logic makes no sense. Hasn't Luffy himself been surprised by Zoro doing stuff like cutting a train in half? THe problem isn't limited to just Kinemon's strength, but seeing someone else have the strength to cut through stone. Luffy could punch through and break much harder stuff and still be surprised by Kinemon cutting the same rocks and boulders that Zoro did, for example.

It does seem to me that Kinemon genuinely reacted that way because Zoro was many times stronger than him. Besides he was left without reaction against Pica.

Kinemon is a hard ball since he didnt really show much feats besides fighting Kaido. I think Kinemon is VA Vergo level, and all the 9RS were somehow able to get power up by using Ryo haki to damage Kaido but only for a little bit. Kinemon was shocked that Zolo cut Pica in half, but who wouldnt be. Kinemon had a brief clashed with Doffy and lost but I wouldnt count it agaisnt, even though imo Doffy > Kinemon. He also seems to be the defacto leader of 9RS and maybe the strongest among them, debateble though. Kinemon lost to Law but thats mostly because had no idea of Laws powers, though that shouldnt make it an excuse.

I don't see anything that suggests Kinemon would be that strong.

Kinemon is the leader of the Scabbards, but he's far from being the strongest. Shutenmaru even commented that the ones who didn't traveled to the future got much stronger in 20 years.

I would put Jozu higher or equal to Vista, but def higher than Ace. Ace doesnt seem that strong in NW veteran terms, he had the potential to be stronger but didnt.

It's hard to tell, I can only judge Jozu based on what he accomplished, which is less than Vista.

 

[Critical mindset]

@Critical mindset As soon as I saw you were watching this thread I thought of asking you whether Vergo > BM but it seems you’ve already started on that

BM screamed from a weaker level attack. Chicken is coming home to roost.

 

[XXGenesis]

This logic makes no sense. Hasn't Luffy himself been surprised by Zoro doing stuff like cutting a train in half? THe problem isn't limited to just Kinemon's strength, but seeing someone else have the strength to cut through stone. Luffy could punch through and break much harder stuff and still be surprised by Kinemon cutting the same rocks and boulders that Zoro did, for example.

It has credence. A characters surprise to another’s skill & strength shows acknowledgement of ability & execution.

None of the current Samurai or Scabbards have shown such cutting skills or power To be able to topple and cut all the way threw a mountain.