One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

It appears to me that General Franky is somewhat comparable to a Pacifista.

If that's the case, the monster trio should be able to defeat him with one attack as well, etc.

General franky survived at least sasaki's attack. That should be way more than a pacifista from marineford can handle. Generally my idea is that basically the entire post timeskip crew is well stronger than pre time skip luffy.

 

[Fox666]

General franky survived at least sasaki's attack. That should be way more than a pacifista from marineford can handle. Generally my idea is that basically the entire post timeskip crew is well stronger than pre time skip luffy.

We don't know how strong Sasaki is... he will be as strong as needed for Franky to defeat him, if he's defeated.

From what I can tell, Franky, Robin and Brook are around the Supernova level. And the Supernova were really strong back then.

 

[kkck]

We don't know how strong Sasaki is... he will be as strong as needed for Franky to defeat him, if he's defeated.

From what I can tell, Franky, Robin and Brook are around the Supernova level. And the Supernova were really strong back then.

Sasaki is essentially one of kaido's executives... The topo robi do not seem impressive yet but there is no way a yonko executive isn't immensely stronger than the pacifista we have seen.

As for supernova level... If you mean pre time skip, that's incredibly weak. Pre time skip supernova were rookie pirates with no power to speak off. That's the point the series made repeatedly during the marineford war and why luffy was bailed out by someone literally every time he ran into someone with a modicum of strength. I think you are underestimating the power scaling in this series. Pre time skip luffy, lucci, kidd law.... are essentially worthless fodder with no power whatsoever by the current series standards. I would maintain my current point that the weakest current strawhat is well stronger than that nowadays.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

@Critical mindset

If Law is Luffy's rival then we can agree he got stronger in between and possibly even during the arcs. Same can be said for Kidd. Actually that can be said for many characters. It is possible that Law was much weaker then and he got a huge power jump when he shanked Big Mom. Either way, it is probably true he used a stronger version of countershock vs Big Mom. I'm sure he will start out beefing up his attacks more than normal since he is vsing a yonkou and not some underling of a well known pirate. Also, there have been indications of Law hiding the true extent of his powers. Law showed an inkling of his abilities when he sliced Vergo, SAD, etc, showing his Haki is superior to Vergo's and then talking shit to Doflamingo which was awesome. If I remember correctly, Law was trying to get back Smoker's heart or someone's heart. I'd imagine using moves too destructive will damage said heart too.

 

[Fox666]

Sasaki is essentially one of kaido's executives... The topo robi do not seem impressive yet but there is no way a yonko executive isn't immensely stronger than the pacifista we have seen.

Only the All-Stars are executives. The Flying Six are said to be the strongest Headliners.

It's hard to tell how strong the Flying Six are. However, I suspect there's a massive gap of strength between the strongest and the weakest among the Flying Six.

I think you are underestimating the power scaling in this series.

I'm not.

Rather, I think you are underestimating the difference between the monster trio and Franky.

 

[XXGenesis]

PTS SuperNova’s are not New World Strong!
They are basically Weak Headliners, Weaker than Oven or Daifuku or A lower Captain from WB crew like Squardo or Atmos.

 

[kkck]

PTS SuperNova’s are not New World Strong!
They are basically Weak Headliners, Weaker than Oven or Daifuku or A lower Captain from WB crew like Squardo or Atmos.

Remember what pekoms did to caribou? That's basically what would happen to any pre time skip supernova that faces off against anyone with a fraction of strength in the new world... As in, PTS luffy, lucci, kidd, law in the new world... Rookies have to be incredibly lucky to survive there.

 

[XXGenesis]

Remember what pekoms did to caribou? That's basically what would happen to any pre time skip supernova that faces off against anyone with a fraction of strength in the new world... As in, PTS luffy, lucci, kidd, law in the new world... Rookies have to be incredibly lucky to survive there.

Caribou is a scrub.

Dont understand the rebuttal as we are in agreement.

Pekoms is much stronger than the characters I used as my example; besides the WBP

The SuperNova SHP aside did Survive the NW when they entered. Obviously they didn’t encounter massively stronger opponents right away, but did get deterred along The way.
,

 

[kkck]

Caribou is a scrub.

Dont understand the rebuttal as we are in agreement.

Pekoms is much stronger than the characters I used as my example; besides the WBP

The SuperNova SHP aside did Survive the NW when they entered. Obviously they didn’t encounter massively stronger opponents right away, but did get deterred along The way.
,

TBH I don't think the PTS supernova would even make it to any type of headliner. Even current zoro acknowledged kaido's random headliners as strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2021 ---

Ok, topic... We are seeing that zoro is learning from enma the haki to cut kaido basically. We know the scabbards have some measure of this skill, but its largely insufficient. So now this: mihawk and jozu.

mihawk is basically the strongest swordsmen in the world and his fame extends far and wide. So... could he cut kaido? You'd think the WSS would have mastered every possible haki skill pertaining to swordsmanship at least. At least on my end my assumption would be that mihawk indeed has this level of mastery and could meaningfully injure kaido.

Which takes us to jozu... Could his durability be higher than kaido's? I am sure he doesn't have kaido's durability in base form of course but it is entirely possible he blocked a slash from mihawk which could have cut clean through kaido...

 

[Nie Li]

TBH I don't think the PTS supernova would even make it to any type of headliner. Even current zoro acknowledged kaido's random headliners as strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2021 ---

Ok, topic... We are seeing that zoro is learning from enma the haki to cut kaido basically. We know the scabbards have some measure of this skill, but its largely insufficient. So now this: mihawk and jozu.

mihawk is basically the strongest swordsmen in the world and his fame extends far and wide. So... could he cut kaido? You'd think the WSS would have mastered every possible haki skill pertaining to swordsmanship at least. At least on my end my assumption would be that mihawk indeed has this level of mastery and could meaningfully injure kaido.

Which takes us to jozu... Could his durability be higher than kaido's? I am sure he doesn't have kaido's durability in base form of course but it is entirely possible he blocked a slash from mihawk which could have cut clean through kaido...

Spoiler: Chapter 1003

Mihawk can surely meaningfully cut "Dragon Kaido". This much is simply obvious if Zoro can cut him with some AOE attack like Tatsumaki, an attack that doesn't even focus on cutting power (if it wasn't obvious already from Oden cutting Kaido). Even Mihawk's sword is a grade above Enma and supposedly the best blade in the world, so yeah, everything suggests that he can.

I believe Jozu using his DF and possibly haki has higher durability than at least base Kaido, but the train of thought you have started is faulty because we don't know what kind of haki Mihawk put into that particular slash. I've always defended, and still do, that that was a random casual slash from him. It was not a named technique but just a boring straight slash that was simply gigantic because he's just that strong. We don't even know what kind of haki he put into it, if any. Jozu's durability feat is dependant on this huge amount of information we're missing and we can only talk about assumptions.

It is possible that Jozu is more durable than dragon Kaido, mostly supported by Zoro's current Tatsumaki being enough to pierce his scales, but yeah, we lack information regarding that scene.

I will say that I don't think there's any way Jozu could have tanked Mihawk if Mihawk had properly attacked him with a power-oriented technique (anything that he has that's similar to shishi sonson, to name one) and the intention to cut him.

 

[Critical mindset]

@Critical mindset

If Law is Luffy's rival then we can agree he got stronger in between and possibly even during the arcs. Same can be said for Kidd. Actually that can be said for many characters. It is possible that Law was much weaker then and he got a huge power jump when he shanked Big Mom. Either way, it is probably true he used a stronger version of countershock vs Big Mom. I'm sure he will start out beefing up his attacks more than normal since he is vsing a yonkou and not some underling of a well known pirate. Also, there have been indications of Law hiding the true extent of his powers. Law showed an inkling of his abilities when he sliced Vergo, SAD, etc, showing his Haki is superior to Vergo's and then talking shit to Doflamingo which was awesome. If I remember correctly, Law was trying to get back Smoker's heart or someone's heart. I'd imagine using moves too destructive will damage said heart too.

No. Law’s Haki is not even better than Smoker, let alone Vergo. Reread that fight. The slice wasn’t pure haki. It might’ve been a combination of df and haki, or no CoA at all and just the power of the df itself. Oden couldn’t even breach the barrier fruit, so why is it so strange that even a proficient CoA user gets overpowered by the power of a haxxed devil fruit power?

It’s clear you miss the plot and don’t realise Vergo was clearly written to be a big deal

there had to be so much shit thrown his way and countershock was just one of it, all not to be a hassle for the MVP. As soon as he ups his serious level one order of magnitude Sanji was traumatised for life. That’s why he didn’t face Luffy let alone Zoro.

If it was just a matter of better haki, he wouldn’t have encased the whole island in his room. That’s fucking stupid, you really think that? Wonder how taxing that attack was to Law. Perhaps it cost him a bunch of years of his life just to execute it.

That’s what Vergo is worth

and spoiler: there is an axolotl devil fruit in Pink Hazard. And that’s probably a coincidence, no?

 

[M3J]

It does seem to me that Kinemon genuinely reacted that way because Zoro was many times stronger than him. Besides he was left without reaction against Pica.

Not necessarily. It's still way too open-ended.

It has credence. A characters surprise to another’s skill & strength shows acknowledgement of ability & execution.

None of the current Samurai or Scabbards have shown such cutting skills or power To be able to topple and cut all the way threw a mountain.

Sure, but it can also show that Kinemon sees stone as difficult to cut through and probably hasn't met many people who can do that, it doesn't mean he can do it or that he's weaker than the person who cut through stone. I think we're agreeing?

 

[Prxnce]

Where is your evidence?
[/QUOTE]

Where is your evidence?

You serious? One Piece Visual Dictionary, 2018.

 

[Nie Li]

You serious? One Piece Visual Dictionary, 2018.

I don't think that's anywhere on the Visual Dictionary. Shanks definitely became more famous after becoming Yonkou than after clashing Mihawk.

1- Yonkou have more notoriety than Mihawk.
2- Shanks didn't defeat Mihawk anyway.

Notoriety has nothing to do with individual strength and it's a very different topic. Yonkous make more noise as they conquer the New World and build gigantic and powerful crews, making a name for themselves as "the most powerful pirates". The quotation marks are not to say they are not powerful, but it's the opposite of Mihawk acts. He didn't build anything other than a title. He just went about challenging strong people and only those he has fought seriously can know exactly what kind of power he has. Everyone else can just make assumptions based on him being a Shichibukai and not a Yonkou, like some readers do, ignoring context and characterisation.

Spoiler: However

What is on the Visual Dictionary is these two sentences about Mihawk:

In the vibre cards, there was some timeline in which the editor mistaked the order of two events in the life of Shanks, a simple editing mistake that was acknowledged and pointed out by the same editors. Certain readers have tried using that to discredit everything that's on the vibre cards, claiming that "since something was edited out of order, possibly everything else is wrong too". Editing a timeline wrong and writing wrong paragraphs of text are very different things, so unless the editors come out to point out how what they wrote was just a bunch of lies, I see no reason to doubt it. Two years have passed already.

It's nonsensical to believe that Mihawk would be bored out of his mind and that he'd be waiting for someone stronger to fight while he actively ignores Shanks, who he even had a chance to fight again in a scene of the series, who supposedly has far surpassed Mihawk because he became a Yonkou. Claiming this is claiming that Mihawk is just an idiot.

 

[kkck]

Spoiler: Chapter 1003

Mihawk can surely meaningfully cut "Dragon Kaido". This much is simply obvious if Zoro can cut him with some AOE attack like Tatsumaki, an attack that doesn't even focus on cutting power (if it wasn't obvious already from Oden cutting Kaido). Even Mihawk's sword is a grade above Enma and supposedly the best blade in the world, so yeah, everything suggests that he can.

I believe Jozu using his DF and possibly haki has higher durability than at least base Kaido, but the train of thought you have started is faulty because we don't know what kind of haki Mihawk put into that particular slash. I've always defended, and still do, that that was a random casual slash from him. It was not a named technique but just a boring straight slash that was simply gigantic because he's just that strong. We don't even know what kind of haki he put into it, if any. Jozu's durability feat is dependant on this huge amount of information we're missing and we can only talk about assumptions.

It is possible that Jozu is more durable than dragon Kaido, mostly supported by Zoro's current Tatsumaki being enough to pierce his scales, but yeah, we lack information regarding that scene.

I will say that I don't think there's any way Jozu could have tanked Mihawk if Mihawk had properly attacked him with a power-oriented technique (anything that he has that's similar to shishi sonson, to name one) and the intention to cut him.

In the case of the scabbards it didn't necessarily take named techniques to injure kaido. And using named techniques didn't make enough of a difference. It's very likely that oden didn't need named techniques to actually injure kaido...

 

[Nie Li]

In the case of the scabbards it didn't necessarily take named techniques to injure kaido. And using named techniques didn't make enough of a difference. It's very likely that oden didn't need named techniques to actually injure kaido...

Fair point. The scabbards really surpassed it with no problem even in dragon form.

 

[M3J]

Where is your evidence?

You serious? One Piece Visual Dictionary, 2018.
[/QUOTE]

That's a bad rebuttal. There has been no mention of Shanks gaining his fame from challenging Mihawk, not even from Mihawk himself. They were rivals and likely friends, but that's about it.

 

[XXGenesis]

TBH I don't think the PTS supernova would even make it to any type of headliner. Even current zoro acknowledged kaido's random headliners as strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2021 ---

Ok, topic... We are seeing that zoro is learning from enma the haki to cut kaido basically. We know the scabbards have some measure of this skill, but its largely insufficient. So now this: mihawk and jozu.

mihawk is basically the strongest swordsmen in the world and his fame extends far and wide. So... could he cut kaido? You'd think the WSS would have mastered every possible haki skill pertaining to swordsmanship at least. At least on my end my assumption would be that mihawk indeed has this level of mastery and could meaningfully injure kaido.

Which takes us to jozu... Could his durability be higher than kaido's? I am sure he doesn't have kaido's durability in base form of course but it is entirely possible he blocked a slash from mihawk which could have cut clean through kaido...

Zoro is fighting a crowd not 1 vs 1 battles. So as fodder goes they are strong for fodder.

I said Weak Headliner..note the adjective before the subject....Not referring to Hawkins or Babunki

Gifters in manga never showed Haki, so they are also beatable imo by the PTS SuperNova

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2021 ---

Sure, but it can also show that Kinemon sees stone as difficult to cut through and probably hasn't met many people who can do that, it doesn't mean he can do it or that he's weaker than the person who cut through stone. I think we're agreeing?

Kinemon can cut through steel; Most likely so can any notable Samurai in Wano.

Bro it’s the size of what Zoro Cut. He himself has no technique to cut a city size Pica, most swordsman don’t...

Not even Cavendish has a attack like that.
Zoro even mentions that his flying slash is only strong enough from a certain distance, too far & it loses power. Kinemon more likely doesn’t have that kind of power to cut stone all the way through of that size, his attack would never make it through.

 

[Fox666]

Which takes us to jozu... Could his durability be higher than kaido's? I am sure he doesn't have kaido's durability in base form of course but it is entirely possible he blocked a slash from mihawk which could have cut clean through kaido...

Jozu's durability is higher than Kaido's when he turns in diamond.

On top of that, his insides are also made of diamond, meaning that advanced Haki or other attacks don't work against him.

However, the downside is that it seems Jozu cannot move the parts he turns in diamond:

 

[XXGenesis]

Jozu's durability is higher than Kaido's when he turns in diamond.

On top of that, his insides are also made of diamond, meaning that advanced Haki or other attacks don't work against him.

However, the downside is that it seems Jozu cannot move the parts he turns in diamond:

You have no evidence or credence to this claim. Jozu’s DF ability has been up for debate for years with how it interacts with Haki.