One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Wait, didn't Katakuri stab himself because Flanbe interfered and caused Luffy to get stabbed?

 

[I Am Atomic]

Wait, didn't Katakuri stab himself because Flanbe interfered and caused Luffy to get stabbed?

Didn't cracker lose because Nami interfered? Karma.

I get your point though

 

[M3J]

But in this case, Cracker vs. Luffy wasn't about respect or honor, both side wanted to get rid of the other. Dunno how that relates, I'm just saying that Katakuri didn't handicap himself or tried to make himself weaker to be even with Luffy.

 

[I Am Atomic]

But in this case, Cracker vs. Luffy wasn't about respect or honor, both side wanted to get rid of the other. Dunno how that relates, I'm just saying that Katakuri didn't handicap himself or tried to make himself weaker to be even with Luffy.

Luffy himself said otherwise. In a fight between pirates, everything is fair.

We can cherry pick a lot of details such as, Luffy landing a blow on Katakuri due to finding out his true nature by accident. Luffy running away with Brulee.
Luffy didn't fight fair either, so it's what your take is on the fight really.

I don't think the fights between pirates should be fair. Ask Kaido

 

[M3J]

Luffy himself said otherwise. In a fight between pirates, everything is fair.

We can cherry pick a lot of details such as, Luffy landing a blow on Katakuri due to finding out his true nature by accident. Luffy running away with Brulee.
Luffy didn't fight fair either, so it's what your take is on the fight really.

I don't think the fights between pirates should be fair. Ask Kaido

?? I'm not talking about fair, I'm just saying I thought Katakuri stabbed himself to make the fight fair because of Flanbe stabbing Luffy, not him giving himself a handicap.

 

[Ellenate]

...Luffy running away with Brulee.

not only that-

luffy sought said outside help, while katakuri didn't.

Dunno how that relates, I'm just saying that Katakuri didn't handicap himself or tried to make himself weaker to be even with Luffy.

Of course not!

He would've had to cut off an entire leg to be equal (maybe lob off an arm too).


---

Oda said he didn't want Luffy to be overpowered; so he'll probably always be in this middling grey area of competency.


edit:

 

[I Am Atomic]

?? I'm not talking about fair, I'm just saying I thought Katakuri stabbed himself to make the fight fair because of Flanbe stabbing Luffy, not him giving himself a handicap.

I get your point though

I did say I understood your point.

Yeah Katakuri did stab himself to make it fair, but my point is that, Luffy didn't fight fair

So the fight wasn't fair from Kata's pov.

 

[M3J]

Then why are you making it complicated? X_X

That also opens up a different argument, given that if Katakuri felt that he would have said something.

 

[I Am Atomic]

That also opens up a different argument, given that if Katakuri felt that he would have said something.

No because Luffy didn't say anything when he got stabbed. Luffy was fine with it being a 2v1. Only the community cares about it being fair. Pirates don't

 

[XXGenesis]

Katakuri only viewed Flampe’s action as interference. Because his Pride was on the line. A Pride Luffy was slowly breaking down, because Mr. Perfect couldn’t keep him down, Flampe interrupted as to why Katakuri screamed at her! Said sorry and injured himself….

The battle had become a real 1 vs 1…..

Remeber Luffy dismissed running away with Brûlée to have Katakuri waste his Haki. Luffy decided to challenege Katakuri head up & try to overcome him….

Luffy never overcame Katakuri just bumped up to his lv by the end of the fight.

Best fight in One Piece IMO.

 

[Fox666]

That's his right arm. It doesn't explode?

The exploded arm is the left arm, which he shoots off to punch Luffy. Katakuri has to shoot off his arm to reach Luffy since he couldn't match Luffy's speed otherwise.

Good call.

Nonetheless, that's Snakeman. Bounce Man overpowered Katakuri in brute force.

The problem is that Katakuri would use future sight to dodge Bounce Man, or even prevent its transformation. So Luffy uses a form which is very difficult to dodge.

 

[Crimson Ice]

I disagree. Luffy was not on Katas level after their fight. Its like saying Luffy is now on Kaidos level. Nope. We know he is not on Kaidos level because Kaido is tired and not fresh after fighting so many powerful foes.

First thing first, use spoilers next time. I'm not trying to scroll for a minute to get to the end.

Katakuri still outclassed Luffy's DF, Haki, and FS even when Luffy reached Wano. Not until Luffy learned Advanced CoA could Luffy actually beat Kata and it would still be a mid diff fight maybe even high diff. Katakuri would still have the upper hand on Kuri/Wano Luffy.

How do people fail to see that WCI Luffy was no way near Kata even in the end. Luffy in Snakeman was still getting outpaced by Kata, Luffys CoA was still no match for Katas

By Katakuri's own admission this is just incorrect. This statement occurs before the climax of the fight where Luffy is at his strongest. To imply a version of Luffy who has strengthened even more wouldn't have the upper hand on Katakuri is insanity.

Spoiler: Katakuri says Luffy is on his level

Here are a few examples of their fight, since people have forgotten how bad Luffy was being beaten.

These scenes show how much Katakuri beat down Luffy even after Luffy learned a bit of FS, as you can see Luffys haki was no match for kata's AND Kata clearly puts out more damage than Luffy

lol not sure what this proves, Luffy reaches Katakuri's level towards the end of the fight. Luffy consistently evolves during the fight, meaning Luffy in an earlier portion was weaker than himself in a latter portion. Katakuri makes note of Luffy's progression throughout the fight and even implies Luffy will reach his level if the fight continues. Not to mention, all of these panels are literally base Luffy.

Spoiler

Now Snakeman vs Kata

Kata gets hit but you can see he still defends quickly and with CoA, showcasing that even in Snakeman, Kata is faster

Kata quickly figured out Snakeman, yeah sure Luffy "outclasses" Kata...lol

You resulted to nitpicking panels. Luffy himself tags Katakuri multiple times and Katakuri himself resorts to blocking a considerable amount because dodging isn't easy. And I really had to bold and highlight what you said, nowhere in my post did I use the word OUTCLASS, if you can't reply without putting words in my mouth just don't even bother replying. Shit, I don't even say Katakuri is WEAKER than Luffy, just that both are on the same level. The last

here it looks like they are equal but its just a straight brawl, though you can see near the end, Kata's CoA punch hurts Luffy's inferior punch

and finally we see Kata stop himself from falling forward choosing to let Luffy win because of Luffys resolve and let himself fall backwards.

Do take in account that Kata heavily injured himself with his trident to give Luffy a handicap, and yet even like that Luffy could not overpower Kata.
So then imagine a fresh round 2, with Luffy knowing a little bit more of FS, but CoA is still the same. Kata's attack power would still stomp Luffys AND his speed would still be able to dodge Snakemans attacks.

"Straight brawl" doesn't negate the fact that Luffy was tagging Katakuri consistently, literally your own panels disprove your point. Katakuri didn't decide just to get hit, Luffy was fast enough to do that now. And despite Luffy's "INFERIOR HAKI." both of their attacks go through and both are knocked back.

Katakuri injured himself because Luffy was hit due to outside interference, he did it to level the playing field, not for a handicap...

A fresh round 2? Do you mean a fight where Luffy doesn't get tossed around for hours trying to learn future sight? Or a round 2 where Flampe isn't there to distract Luffy? That doesn't help Katakuri at all.

 

[I Am Atomic]

By Katakuri's own admission this is just incorrect. This statement occurs before the climax of the fight where Luffy is at his strongest. To imply a version of Luffy who has strengthened even more wouldn't have the upper hand on Katakuri is insanity.

This is a good point.

You resulted to nitpicking panels. Luffy himself tags Katakuri multiple times and Katakuri himself resorts to blocking a considerable amount because dodging isn't easy.

Can you show the panels where Katakuri gets punched more than Luffy please? I don't remember seeing that.

 

[albertwv]

First thing first, use spoilers next time. I'm not trying to scroll for a minute to get to the end.



By Katakuri's own admission this is just incorrect. This statement occurs before the climax of the fight where Luffy is at his strongest. To imply a version of Luffy who has strengthened even more wouldn't have the upper hand on Katakuri is insanity.

Spoiler: Katakuri says Luffy is on his level

lol not sure what this proves, Luffy reaches Katakuri's level towards the end of the fight. Luffy consistently evolves during the fight, meaning Luffy in an earlier portion was weaker than himself in a latter portion. Katakuri makes note of Luffy's progression throughout the fight and even implies Luffy will reach his level if the fight continues. Not to mention, all of these panels are literally base Luffy.

Spoiler

You resulted to nitpicking panels. Luffy himself tags Katakuri multiple times and Katakuri himself resorts to blocking a considerable amount because dodging isn't easy. And I really had to bold and highlight what you said, nowhere in my post did I use the word OUTCLASS, if you can't reply without putting words in my mouth just don't even bother replying. Shit, I don't even say Katakuri is WEAKER than Luffy, just that both are on the same level. The last





"Straight brawl" doesn't negate the fact that Luffy was tagging Katakuri consistently, literally your own panels disprove your point. Katakuri didn't decide just to get hit, Luffy was fast enough to do that now. And despite Luffy's "INFERIOR HAKI." both of their attacks go through and both are knocked back.

Katakuri injured himself because Luffy was hit due to outside interference, he did it to level the playing field, not for a handicap...

A fresh round 2? Do you mean a fight where Luffy doesn't get tossed around for hours trying to learn future sight? Or a round 2 where Flampe isn't there to distract Luffy? That doesn't help Katakuri at all.

You're right about the Spoiler part my bad, and I never put words in your mouth.

At the beginning of the fight Kata sees Luffy as inferior and tries to finish him off quickly with mochi. Then Kata realizes Luffy is getting stronger and may be on his level. This doesnt automatically mean that Luffy IS on Kata's level.
People (not just you) dont understand that Kata outclasses Luffy in every aspect except WILL, but that doesnt mean much in a power level discussion. Kata did injure himself to give Luffy a fair chance because of Flampes interruption.
But give them 1v1 no Brulee, no Flampe or anything Luffy would still lose, he would be a high diff for Kata but Kata would still win.

As I mentioned before, Kata's CoA is greater than Luffys CoA, as we've seen countless times where when Kata punches Luffy, it stings Luffy's arms or hands. The only ones we've seen do that Luffy have been Kata and Kaido, implying they have stronger CoA than Luffy.
I dont see how Luffy would get around Katas superior CoA in a second round.
Not to forget, Gear 4 is a temporary power up, unless Luffy manages to knock out Kata in those 10 minutes or whatever, then will Luffy win, because if not Kata will kill him after G4 runs out. Remember no Brulee or plot in this.
Kata fought G4 Boundman and Snakeman and he was able to still have the upper hand. Boundman managed to attack Kata because he was surprised and enraged. Snakeman was able to land a few hits but Kata was still fast.

I just dont see how people think Luffy would defeat Katakuri afterwards, not until Luffy learned Advanced CoA in Udon and managed to get a better control of his Future Sight would we see Luffy high diff Kata. Now on the rooftop, Luffy would mid diff Kata.

Im done arguing over this.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

Man you have an amazing understanding of the battle very few people did.

One most obvious thing people fail to notice is without the trident stab, Katakuri wasn't going down. Oda really had to end that fight as it was dragging on for too long and the Luffy beat down was bordering unbearable.

Remember Jimbe even said Luffy was "fighting for his life". He wasn't winning that.

Quick request: Where do you read the coloured these days? Wasn't able to anymore since my goto site back then (Kissmanga) got wiped off the internet.

I read the manga on https://mangasee123.com/manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics
there is an updated black and white OP manga but the colored one isnt updated I think right now only up to chapter 950ish. I dont know why it is lagging behind. If somebody else has a better manga source than Mangesee123.com, please drop the link.

I used to read OP when MangaStream was on, best manga website IMO.

 

[Pirate Queen]

First thing first, use spoilers next time. I'm not trying to scroll for a minute to get to the end.



By Katakuri's own admission this is just incorrect. This statement occurs before the climax of the fight where Luffy is at his strongest. To imply a version of Luffy who has strengthened even more wouldn't have the upper hand on Katakuri is insanity.

Spoiler: Katakuri says Luffy is on his level

lol not sure what this proves, Luffy reaches Katakuri's level towards the end of the fight. Luffy consistently evolves during the fight, meaning Luffy in an earlier portion was weaker than himself in a latter portion. Katakuri makes note of Luffy's progression throughout the fight and even implies Luffy will reach his level if the fight continues. Not to mention, all of these panels are literally base Luffy.

Spoiler

You resulted to nitpicking panels. Luffy himself tags Katakuri multiple times and Katakuri himself resorts to blocking a considerable amount because dodging isn't easy. And I really had to bold and highlight what you said, nowhere in my post did I use the word OUTCLASS, if you can't reply without putting words in my mouth just don't even bother replying. Shit, I don't even say Katakuri is WEAKER than Luffy, just that both are on the same level. The last





"Straight brawl" doesn't negate the fact that Luffy was tagging Katakuri consistently, literally your own panels disprove your point. Katakuri didn't decide just to get hit, Luffy was fast enough to do that now. And despite Luffy's "INFERIOR HAKI." both of their attacks go through and both are knocked back.

Katakuri injured himself because Luffy was hit due to outside interference, he did it to level the playing field, not for a handicap...

A fresh round 2? Do you mean a fight where Luffy doesn't get tossed around for hours trying to learn future sight? Or a round 2 where Flampe isn't there to distract Luffy? That doesn't help Katakuri at all.

I honestly don't know how anyone can read this and think Katakuri can take Luffy as he is right after the fight.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I don't think it wouldn't be hard fought, but Katakuri's abilities would put Zoro at a MASSIVE disadvantage. Katakuri's future sight and mochi awakening basically nullify fancy swordsmanship. Not only is Zoro not eating his way out of being crushed/suffocated, he wouldn't have the wild plot armor Luffy had in that fight that necessitated Kata stabbing himself. Hell, in a pure 1v1 with no outside influence, even Luffy as he currently is would be a question mark, probably extremely high-diff victory at best.

 

[Fallou]

I don't think it wouldn't be hard fought, but Katakuri's abilities would put Zoro at a MASSIVE disadvantage. Katakuri's future sight and mochi awakening basically nullify fancy swordsmanship. Not only is Zoro not eating his way out of being crushed/suffocated, he wouldn't have the wild plot armor Luffy had in that fight that necessitated Kata stabbing himself. Hell, in a pure 1v1 with no outside influence, even Luffy as he currently is would be a question mark, probably extremely high-diff victory at best.

Liffy now has a good grasp on future sight and better armament than Karakuri, so I think it would be a clear win for him

That said, Katakuri was special. We have yet to get any proof that King is at the same level...

 

[Core D. Roy]

Liffy now has a good grasp on future sight and better armament than Karakuri, so I think it would be a clear win for him

That said, Katakuri was special. We have yet to get any proof that King is at the same level...

Luffy has like two weeks of experience with future sight, a few days experience with ryuuo, and about an hour worth of experience with conqueror's coating.

Without the Flampe disturbance or Brulee being targeted to make him flustered? Katakuri could still beat Luffy pretty easily if there's no other plot elements putting the thumb on the scale in Luffy's favor.

Also, there's nothing to suggest Luffy's armament haki is "better" than Katakuri. Luffy's ryuuo is an entirely different technique from "Block Mochi", it's completely unknown how those two very different types of advanced armament would react.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Hasn't Luffy vs Big Mom been foreshadowed since mermaid's island arc? It would be kind of a waste for it not to happen. And what about Law? He shouldn't be standing on the sidelines just watching, he's the one thought up the whole take down Kaidou thing in the first place let him get in on the flipping fun. Dial down your Zoro fan boyness please.

@grey matter

Check this out. A Luffy fan calling me a Zoro fanboi in response to my match-up prediction and how much I defended Zoro lol

And it's happened a few times....

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 24, 2021, Original Post Date: Nov 24, 2021 ---

Luffy has like two weeks of experience with future sight, a few days experience with ryuuo, and about an hour worth of experience with conqueror's coating.

Without the Flampe disturbance or Brulee being targeted to make him flustered? Katakuri could still beat Luffy pretty easily if there's no other plot elements putting the thumb on the scale in Luffy's favor.

Also, there's nothing to suggest Luffy's armament haki is "better" than Katakuri. Luffy's ryuuo is an entirely different technique from "Block Mochi", it's completely unknown how those two very different types of advanced armament would react.

Block Mochi seems to be just overwhelmingly strong "Hardening" that's not advanced CoA.
Hardening is just a higher accumilation of Basic CoA at 1 point

Whereas Luffy's internal damage haki focuses not on hardening but internal damage.

Luffy's by far has the more effective one as it isn't just advanced barrier haki, but a stage above that

 

[I Am Atomic]

Block Mochi seems to be just overwhelmingly strong "Hardening" that's not advanced CoA.
Hardening is just a higher accumilation of Basic CoA at 1 point

Whereas Luffy's internal damage haki focuses not on hardening but internal damage.

Luffy's by far has the more effective one as it isn't just advanced barrier haki, but a stage above that

After Luffy learned aCoA and aCoO, Luffy is ahead or equal to YC1s (my opinion). He only truly stepped into fighting Kaido 1v1 after learning aCoC. Luffy live floor can beat Katakuri imo, but not easily because of the nature of Katakuri's fruit plus better FS than Luffy.

Luffy after the fight with Katakuri still had weaker CoA and weaker CoO. G4 BounceMan can't hit Katakuri, base Luffy cannot match Katakuri, and only Snakeman can match it.

So, Luffy is mostly relying on Snakeman and his endurance.

If there is no plot armour, purely ability and stat wise, Katakuri is still ahead of Luffy.

Note: when I talk about rematches, also need to take into account all the BS plot armour that favoured Luffy in that fight.

Saying all of that, I can see why you would say Luffy would win. It's possible. I personally am leaning more towards Katakuri winning that's all.